Obscure description of the damaged ski pole - can anyone clarify?

[ikemitsu]

Lebedev's witness testimony (sheet 315) of the damaged ski pole found in the tent is pretty obscure in English. Can anyone give a better translation from Russian? I'm referring to this single sentence: "In the tent we found a ski stick from which the upper end was cut along the neat end cut and another incision was made." In Russian I think it's "В палатке мы обнаружили лыжную палку от которой был отрезан верхний конец по аккуратному концевому надрезу и еще один надрез был сделан." In different sources the pole is sometimes said to be cut into pieces even, but I can't quite believe that. Perhaps the ski pole was just broken while in use, like the strap getting loose, and one of the tourists had started to fix it. Nothing mysterious there. Is Lebedev the only source?

[Loose}{Cannon]

Welp,. it was outside of the tent and it was purposely broken to make an anchoring point for TWO corners of the tent.    See below

https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-362-369?rbid=17743

On top of all things lay a ski pole cut into several pieces, on which, apparently, the northern end of the tent was stretched. Render a ski pole unusable, especially when the group didn't have a spare, is possible only under special circumstances.

This is the infamous "tactical tripod" that acording to the Ball Lightening theory was used to...... capture images that dont exist.   

[WAB]

Lebedev's witness testimony (sheet 315) of the damaged ski pole found in the tent is pretty obscure in English. Can anyone give a better translation from Russian? I'm referring to this single sentence: "In the tent we found a ski stick from which the upper end was cut along the neat end cut and another incision was made." In Russian I think it's "В палатке мы обнаружили лыжную палку от которой был отрезан верхний конец по аккуратному концевому надрезу и еще один надрез был сделан." In different sources the pole is sometimes said to be cut into pieces even, but I can't quite believe that. Perhaps the ski pole was just broken while in use, like the strap getting loose, and one of the tourists had started to fix it. Nothing mysterious there. Is Lebedev the only source?

If you not against I will try to explain it.
1.Anybody from travellers of such level would not began to cut a ski stick in the travel middle under no circumstances. Because then was very big probability of its preschedule end. There were attempts of repair of such sticks, but they were unsuccessful in their big part. It from practice of the same travel to Russia for many tens years.
2.I so think that participants of search in an error have accepted a stick which was inserted into a backpack contour for a piece of a ski stick. At that time in the USSR there was in the use a backpack of a design of climber Vitaly Abalakov. Here it is in photos:



Kind from outer side



Kind from a back
For this purpose that a backpack would be to bear more conveniently, under straps did an insert in the form of a short stick (~ 40 … 50 sm or 15 … 20 inches). It is how it is visible on bottom to a photo.



It was necessary to put a stick under special loops from a tape (as there is a red line) which have been sewn to a backpack (it there is a usual design of a backpack by Abalakov) and to lift backpack straps over this stick (as it is drawn in the form of yellow arrows).
All participants of Dyatlov group had backpacks of design by Abalakov.
These sticks cut out from usual dry trees and they looked like, which was very similar to a material from ski sticks. Not all participants of searches knew it. Most possibly this reception was used by Simeon Zolotaryov who was the guide and knew it because worked in mountains of Altay earlier.

I cannot write here often but if it is necessary, I can explain later, but in more details as such design from the point of view of mechanics worked.

[WAB]

........................
This is the infamous "tactical tripod" that acording to the Ball Lightening theory was used to...... capture images that dont exist.   
..........................

You speak not about that subject.
ikemitsu asked about a ski stick which has been found inside. Please attentively read the reference which has resulted ikemitsu.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Oh it was on topic alright.

You dont break a ski-pole for a pack brace..... there are plenty of sticks in the woods for that. 

[Nigel Evans]

I think WAB is saying that the stick was a part of the rucksac's construction and had perhaps  been removed to use the bag as a pillow. Bamboo would be lighter than a piece of wood.

[sarapuk]

I would have thought that all the rucksacs would have had any wooden frames ready fitted. The wooden frame as long been used in expeditions going back in history.

[Loose}{Cannon]

There was only ONE ski pole broken, and you can clearly see it in the pictures. 

[Nigel Evans]

There was only ONE ski pole broken, and you can clearly see it in the pictures.

If I could trouble you to point out the picture? I'm not aware of it. I thought the broken pole was inside the tent?

[Loose}{Cannon]

"In the tent we found a ski stick from which the upper end was cut along the neat end cut and another incision was made."

In the tent......   as in, driven through the corner of the tent.     

was cut along the neat end cut and another incision was made

It was cut twice.....   






Here are all 3 parts shown together after removal, note they were slightly separated from the rest of the tents contents.





https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-362-369?rbid=17743

Quote
On top of all things lay a ski pole cut into several pieces, on which, apparently, the northern end of the tent was stretched. Render a ski pole unusable, especially when the group didn't have a spare, is possible only under special circumstances.

[Nigel Evans]

I don't see anything conclusive in those red rings. Imo it's equally possible that WAB is correct. Or maybe this was some bespoke tent construction?


Is it recorded that they only found 17 poles complete?

[sarapuk]

DISCOVERY PROTOCOL OF HIKERS CAMP SITE
Sheet 2
PROTOCOL
camp site found of Igor Dyatlov group


 Camp site consists of a pad of flattened snow, on the bottom are stacked 8 pairs of skis (for tent support and insulation, red). Tent is stretched on ski poles and fixed with ropes, at the bottom of the tent 9 backpacks were discovered with various personal items, jackets, rain coats, 9 pairs of shoes.

[sarapuk]

E. P. MASLENNIKOV WITNESS TESTIMONY
Sheet 70
PROTOCOL
witness testimony

28.2.59 Dyatlov group tent was examined. Tent inspection showed that almost all personal belongings of the members, as well as the university equipment was present.
The tent was 150 m from the spur ridge (900 m) of height "1079". The tent was stretched out on skis and poles, hammered into the snow, its entrance facing the south side and on that side extensions were intact, and the north side stretching was disrupted and therefore the entire second half of the tent was covered with snow. The snow was not much, only drifted by the blizzards in the period of February. Items found in the tent: ice ax, a spare pair of ski, 10-15 m from the tent were found sneakers, socks and Dyatlov fur jacket. Also a storm jacket. On top of the tent was laying Chinese flashlight turned on (but unlit). With the tent was mostly engaged Brusnitsyn, who can describe how the items were found better than me. Considering that prosecutor Tempalov and sufficient number of people were at the tent I went down to the search base camp, as it was necessary to organize the search of the remaining hikers.

In Dyatlov tent there were 9 backpacks, 10 pairs of skis, of which 9 pairs under the bottom of the tent, 8 pairs of shoes, 3,5 pairs of felt boots (7 pcs.), several padded jackets, and other property. When the inspection was over we dragged the tent to the helipad at a distance of 600-700.

[sarapuk]

BRUSNITSYN WITNESS TESTIMONY
Sheet 367
Protocol
Witness testimony

Sheet 367
- 6 -
Under the tent were laid 8 pairs of skis with their fasteners facing down. Thanks to the dense snow cover, the tent was installed very firmly. Everything is covered with already clammy snow, except for the southern edge, fortified on a ski pole and tied to a pair of skis. No stick was found under the northern edge there was no pole.
Snow was chosen with the help of skis and ski poles. Ten people worked without any system. In most cases things everything was pulled out directly from under the snow, so it's very difficult to determine where and how each thing was.
First they took out several blankets, frozen in a ball, then buckets, a stove, 2-3 sacks of rusks, boots, etc. The things in the tent were arranged in the following order. At the bottom were laid rucksacks. Then 2-3 blankets. Next were the quilted jackets and personal belongings of the participants. Buckets, stove, ax, saw were lying at the entrance to the right. Here was part of the products: rusks, sugar, condensed milk, open bag with a loin. The rest of the products were in the far right corner. Most of the shoes lying were placed on the left side of the tent. Two pairs - right in the middle. The rest of the things were in disarray in the tent.
Apparently the group was in the final stage of dressing and preparing for the night at the time of the incident. In the near to te entrance part of the tent were found a few crusts from the loin. There are rusks scattered all over the tent.

 

Sheet 368
- 7 -
On top of all things lay a ski pole cut into several pieces, on which, apparently, the northern end of the tent was stretched. Render a ski pole unusable, especially when the group didn't have a spare, is possible only under special circumstances.

[sarapuk]

And so to the witness statement of V. I. TEMPALOV  the prosecutor of the city of Ivdel.

The witness statements do not mention the number of SKI POLES found or their condition.

WITNESS TESTIMONY
Sheet 310
The tent was stretched on skis and sticks, hammered in the snow, its entrance was turned to the south, and on this side the stretches were intact, and the stretches of the tent on the north side were torn off and the whole second half of the tent was covered with snow. The tent had an ice ax, an extra pair of skis. On the tent was a Chinese lantern in the unlit state. 9 backpacks, 9 pairs of skis were found in the tent, all of them were under the tent floor, 8 pairs of boots, 3.5 pairs of boots, quilted jackets and many biscuits, half a sack of sugar, a large number of concentrates, cereals, soups, etc. , cocoa, axes, saw, cameras, students diaries, documents and money. At first glance, the tent was covered with snow. It was installed on a platform leveled by the students dug out. A tent with a windy side was torn in the middle part. The bottom of the tent was covered with padded jackets, backpacks and personal belongings of students. In the right corner, near the entrance there was a part of the products: cans of condensed milk, 100 grams of sliced ​​fat, biscuits, sugar, a flask empty from alcohol or vodka, the smell was felt, just like a jar with a drink (poured?) Cooked cocoa was diluted with water and naturally froze, a large knife was found near the fat of a sliced ​​me

[Loose}{Cannon]

I don't see anything conclusive in those red rings. Imo it's equally possible that WAB is correct. Or maybe this was some bespoke tent construction?


Is it recorded that they only found 17 poles complete?

What the hell are your talking about?  IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE SKI-POLE BEING USED AS ANCHORING POINTS FOR THE TENT, YOU EITHER NEED TO LAY OFF THE DRUGS, OR FIND SOME THAT WORK. 

[Nigel Evans]

What the hell are your talking about?  IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE SKI-POLE BEING USED AS ANCHORING POINTS FOR THE TENT, YOU EITHER NEED TO LAY OFF THE DRUGS, OR FIND SOME THAT WORK. 

Or you need some chill pills, we're not discussing anchoring points, we're discussing cut ski poles.

[Loose}{Cannon]

What the hell are your talking about?  IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE SKI-POLE BEING USED AS ANCHORING POINTS FOR THE TENT, YOU EITHER NEED TO LAY OFF THE DRUGS, OR FIND SOME THAT WORK. 

Or you need some chill pills, we're not discussing anchoring points, we're discussing cut ski poles.

FYI, It was ONE pole.

...........................  That was cut in two places making three parts AND USED AS ANCHORING DEVICES!   

[WAB]

Oh it was on topic alright.

You dont break a ski-pole for a pack brace..... there are plenty of sticks in the woods for that.

I speak about same it as appears from my previous letter.
I meant that it not a stick for skis which have sawn, and such stick which have made specially and during earlier time.
Here I have made a special mockup what to show that I showed earlier.
At me was not near to a backpack designed by Abalakov, therefore I took the first which was.



It is that I think has been found in tent. It is made of other tree, instead of from a ski stick. The ruler has divisions in centimetres, with an inch scale I have no ruler close.
Cuts are made for this purpose that tapes on a backpack would not move to side.



It is such stick which is laid on a backpack, but is not inserted yet into place.
 


It is a fragment to place a stick under straps of a backpack and with the tape put on it (it is at the left where there is a tape lock)

[WAB]

I think WAB is saying that the stick was a part of the rucksac's construction and had perhaps  been removed to use the bag as a pillow.

Yes, it is correctly.

Bamboo would be lighter than a piece of wood.

The bamboo cannot be cut a manual knife (almost impossible). It is easy for breaking on "joints". But it is not told anywhere that it was the bamboo which cut.
Ski sticks from a tree were at Lyudmila Dubinina. All other participants had ski sticks from a bamboo.

[WAB]

I would have thought that all the rucksacs would have had any wooden frames ready fitted. The wooden frame as long been used in expeditions going back in history.

At ancient Russian people it had the name «Poniaga (поняга)».
In Wiki there is article about « Poniaga » https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%8F%D0%B3%D0%B0 , but it only in Russian. It is possible to try to translate from google.
Its design was absolutely strongly differs from a ski stick.
In this case, we have no signs of that it would be available.

***************begin oftop*********************
If mute to leave aside from conversation about Dyatlov team, I can tell that « Poniaga » it is a prototype of backpacks with a firm and volume skeleton which are now.
For maintenance of the first Soviet expedition to the Everest 1982 I took part in designing and manufacturing of some subjects of equipment for it. Together with department of the oxygen equipment of firm "R&D PE Zvezda " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPP_Zvezda , I was engaged in working out of oxygen masks and reducers for them. And as developed a special frame for transport of oxygen cylinders. This frame was development «Poniaga» as principle.
It used on that expedition and for transport of the sick climber. All can be seen it in a video film . The fragment of this film begins during time 10:30 on the timer of this film.
Here is their screenshot it



It is the reference to this video   (time after 10:30 minutes)
On following photos this frame which is mine a copy as the author.
           






******************end oftop*********************

[WAB]

There was only ONE ski pole broken, and you can clearly see it in the pictures.

That was in tent it was not impossible to see in that photo.
In papers from Tempalov, or Brusnitsin, or Maslennikov it was not said that the broken ski stick was outside of tent. There it was said that it have found into tent.

[WAB]

...........................................

https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-362-369?rbid=17743

Quote
On top of all things lay a ski pole cut into several pieces, on which, apparently, the northern end of the tent was stretched. Render a ski pole unusable, especially when the group didn't have a spare, is possible only under special circumstances.

All that you have shown on these a photo, it were ski sticks which have not been cut. They have not been broken as. They were used by participants of search on a slope instead of search probes which then had not time to bring yet on this place.
To cut a ski stick for a tent prop it is not meaningful. The highest is greedy had length of 1 metre and 40 centimetres or 4,5 foots. It is very low height for tent. If it to cut off, there will be a height even more low.

[WAB]

Is it recorded that they only found 17 poles complete

Instead of you where it has been written could show? I attentively read all papers in original language and did not see that so have been written.

[WAB]

...................................................

Everything that you have resulted as the citation does not concern that that we now discuss.
I very much regret …

[WAB]

What the hell are your talking about?  IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE SKI-POLE BEING USED AS ANCHORING POINTS FOR THE TENT, YOU EITHER NEED TO LAY OFF THE DRUGS, OR FIND SOME THAT WORK.

It is impossible to see on these a photo. They are different place and different time. Even on February, 27th participants of searches took and used ski sticks for search. Therefore it is impossible to count their quantity correctly.

[Nigel Evans]

...........................  That was cut in two places making three parts AND USED AS ANCHORING DEVICES!   

A section of pole one third of the complete length would not be of any use as an anchor in snow? The anchors you are ringing are complete poles imo. N.B. you've circled two end sections in the same photo that couldn't have come from one pole.

[Nigel Evans]

Is it recorded that they only found 17 poles complete

Instead of you where it has been written could show? I attentively read all papers in original language and did not see that so have been written.

Hi, i'm asking this as a question, perhaps it translated badly  = "Is it recorded that they only found 17 complete poles?".

[Nigel Evans]

What the hell are your talking about?  IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE SKI-POLE BEING USED AS ANCHORING POINTS FOR THE TENT, YOU EITHER NEED TO LAY OFF THE DRUGS, OR FIND SOME THAT WORK.

It is impossible to see on these a photo. They are different place and different time. Even on February, 27th participants of searches took and used ski sticks for search. Therefore it is impossible to count their quantity correctly.

But the quantity should be an even number?

[sarapuk]

Why should the quantity be an even number  !  ?