The Real Ball Lightning theory

[sarapuk]

It’s a very strange and unfortunate occurrence.  Could be solar I suppose. BL ?  Who knows.   

Well its certainly very strange but it doesnt really go any where near explaining the Dyatlov Incident.  There is no evidence of Solar phenomenon or Ball Lightning phenomenon injuring people like some of the Dyatlov Group.

Yuri K's leg would be a fit for a directed heat ray. Or it was the fire.

Well maybe but I think we would all like a bit more substance by way of connecting an HEAT RAY or whatever and any particular injury. I mean how can we LINK some electrical type of event with a particular bodily injury on any of the Dyatlov Group  1  / 

[Nigel Evans]

It’s a very strange and unfortunate occurrence.  Could be solar I suppose. BL ?  Who knows.   

Well its certainly very strange but it doesnt really go any where near explaining the Dyatlov Incident.  There is no evidence of Solar phenomenon or Ball Lightning phenomenon injuring people like some of the Dyatlov Group.

Yuri K's leg would be a fit for a directed heat ray. Or it was the fire.

Well maybe but I think we would all like a bit more substance by way of connecting an HEAT RAY or whatever and any particular injury. I mean how can we LINK some electrical type of event with a particular bodily injury on any of the Dyatlov Group  1  /

Yuri K had a badly burnt leg and Yuri D's (assumed) edema has several explanations including electrocution. Lyudmila's injuries have several explanations including being consistent with cattle mutilations the explanations of which include atmospheric electricity.

This is what Ivanov said in his interview - "When later in May Ye.P.Maslennikov and I examined the scene of the incident, we noted that some young spruces at the edge of the forest had traces of burning, but their location was neither concentric nor otherwise systematic. There was no epicentre either. That was one more proof of directional nature of, say, a thermal ray or some unknown, at least to us, energy of selective action: no traces of melt in snow, no damaged trees were noted either. We got an impression that after tourists had walked on foot over five hundred metres down the slope, someone had dealt with a few of them in a directional way."
[/i]This guy is makig sense imo, but i favour less involvement with the ground and more with the atmosphere, imo the source of the electricity is derived from the profile of the Urals interrupting large snow storms from a westerly direction. - https://sites.google.com/site/mezoelectric/dyatlov-pass-incident-1

The nine people have perished because of an large scale electrical [/font][/i][/color]

process that occurs naturally in this region which is very different[/font][/i][/color]

than the classical cloud-to-ground lightning and similar in some[/font][/i][/color]

way [/font][/i]with corona electrical discharging or with ball lightning.[/font][/color]

[/color]

[/color]

[sarapuk]

It’s a very strange and unfortunate occurrence.  Could be solar I suppose. BL ?  Who knows.   

Well its certainly very strange but it doesnt really go any where near explaining the Dyatlov Incident.  There is no evidence of Solar phenomenon or Ball Lightning phenomenon injuring people like some of the Dyatlov Group.

Yuri K's leg would be a fit for a directed heat ray. Or it was the fire.

Well maybe but I think we would all like a bit more substance by way of connecting an HEAT RAY or whatever and any particular injury. I mean how can we LINK some electrical type of event with a particular bodily injury on any of the Dyatlov Group  1  /

Yuri K had a badly burnt leg and Yuri D's (assumed) edema has several explanations including electrocution. Lyudmila's injuries have several explanations including being consistent with cattle mutilations the explanations of which include atmospheric electricity.

This is what Ivanov said in his interview - "When later in May Ye.P.Maslennikov and I examined the scene of the incident, we noted that some young spruces at the edge of the forest had traces of burning, but their location was neither concentric nor otherwise systematic. There was no epicentre either. That was one more proof of directional nature of, say, a thermal ray or some unknown, at least to us, energy of selective action: no traces of melt in snow, no damaged trees were noted either. We got an impression that after tourists had walked on foot over five hundred metres down the slope, someone had dealt with a few of them in a directional way.""I had a clear understanding in what sequence and who were dying, this information was the result of thorough examination of the bodies, their clothes, and other data. Only the sky was left, with all its contents and an unfathomable energy that had turned out to be beyond human strength."
This guy is makig sense imo, but i favour less involvement with the ground and more with the atmosphere, imo the source of the electricity is derived from the profile of the Urals interrupting large snow storms from a westerly direction. - https://sites.google.com/site/mezoelectric/dyatlov-pass-incident-1

The nine people have perished because of an large scale electrical [/font][/i][/color]

process that occurs naturally in this region which is very different[/font][/i][/color]

than the classical cloud-to-ground lightning and similar in some[/font][/i][/color]

way [/font][/i]with corona electrical discharging or with ball lightning.[/font][/color]

[/color]

[/color]

Yes its true that some of the injuries to some of the Dyatlov group could have been the result of some kind of ELECTRICAL PHENOMENON. But surely if the area where the Dyatlov Group met their demise is as you say the result of a large scale electrical process that occurs naturally in this area, then why have there never been any similar events over hundreds of years  !  ? 

[Nigel Evans]

Yes its true that some of the injuries to some of the Dyatlov group could have been the result of some kind of ELECTRICAL PHENOMENON. But surely if the area where the Dyatlov Group met their demise is as you say the result of a large scale electrical process that occurs naturally in this area, then why have there never been any similar events over hundreds of years  !  ?

Well the legend of the nine mansi hunters is another event? Also 1958 is recorded as THE record year for sunspots (and hence geomagnetic activity) for the last 400 years which is possibly relevant. If that level of geomagnetic energy and fierce snow storms are required then they'll be infrequent. Less infrequent will be the occasional orb of course.

[sarapuk]

Yes its true that some of the injuries to some of the Dyatlov group could have been the result of some kind of ELECTRICAL PHENOMENON. But surely if the area where the Dyatlov Group met their demise is as you say the result of a large scale electrical process that occurs naturally in this area, then why have there never been any similar events over hundreds of years  !  ?

Well the legend of the nine mansi hunters is another event? Also 1958 is recorded as THE record year for sunspots (and hence geomagnetic activity) for the last 400 years which is possibly relevant. If that level of geomagnetic energy and fierce snow storms are required then they'll be infrequent. Less infrequent will be the occasional orb of course.

I thought you would mention the Mansi legend. There doesnt appear to be any real evidence that 9 Mansi died in the area. It is as you say, a LEGEND. Interesting about the SUNSPOT activity though. I notice that the years 1956 to 1960 were fairly high. Also they were fairly high 2000 to 2002 when Yuri Yakimov had his experience. Coincidence ! ? But as you must know Sunspot activity research is very much a work in progress and its really only the beginning. Its just one of many disciplines in this particular area of science. I dont see anything jumping out at me and saying CONNECTION with the Dyatlov Incident.

[Nigel Evans]

I thought you would mention the Mansi legend. There doesnt appear to be any real evidence that 9 Mansi died in the area. It is as you say, a LEGEND. Interesting about the SUNSPOT activity though. I notice that the years 1956 to 1960 were fairly high. Also they were fairly high 2000 to 2002 when Yuri Yakimov had his experience. Coincidence ! ? But as you must know Sunspot activity research is very much a work in progress and its really only the beginning. Its just one of many disciplines in this particular area of science. I dont see anything jumping out at me and saying CONNECTION with the Dyatlov Incident.

Legends are the only historical record that the mansi have. It could just be a story, but it's a curious detail - "as if boiled alive" which gives it credibility imo. Sunspots are one area of interest the other is underground. Who knows what transient forces could be operating down there. Both Tunguska and Libyan desert glass are as a result of immense energies that have no easy explanation. Google "electric universe" for some fun stuff and interesting questions.

[Nigel Evans]

French fire orbs - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4222642/Footage-shows-illuminated-UFO-hovering-French-town.html

[GeneralFailure]

And then there's the photograph :-

There seems to be some very black smoke in that picture that imo isn't a dense snow cloud....
Just saying....

In photography and optics, vignetting (/vɪnˈjɛtɪŋ/, UK also /vɪˈnɛt-/; French: vignette) is a reduction of an image's brightness or saturation toward the periphery compared to the image center.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignetting

[Nigel Evans]

Hi. I don't see the case for vignetting. Imo it's 50/50 ageing or there really was a black cloud of NO2 blowing from the WNW that was soon to kill most of them leaving exposed skin bright yellow. The black cloud maybe looking like this :-

[Nigel Evans]

This is a lovely clip -
My theory would be that this is an incandescent orb generated from an ion stream travelling downwards. The blue violet layer being nitrogen excited by the electrons as they close in and concentrate. Why only a horizontal layer before the excitation stops i don't know. Then the orb is weakly emitting hot NO2 "at it's poles" which immediately cools below +20C and is lost as a vapour/liquid.
Or it's just some CGI of course. 
Cool little object.

[GeneralFailure]

Can be a finger in front of the lens, happens sometimes to me when shooting with the phone :)

Also your "black cloud" appears here:

[Nigel Evans]

Definitely not a vignette there 

[sarapuk]

French fire orbs - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4222642/Footage-shows-illuminated-UFO-hovering-French-town.html

Interesting. Hard to say what it could be. Some have suggested it was fires on an hillside. Must have been a big hill then. I think most hills in Normandy are not much more than a thousand feet. And what was the name of the Town.

[sarapuk]

And then there's the photograph :-

There seems to be some very black smoke in that picture that imo isn't a dense snow cloud....
Just saying....

In photography and optics, vignetting (/vɪnˈjɛtɪŋ/, UK also /vɪˈnɛt-/; French: vignette) is a reduction of an image's brightness or saturation toward the periphery compared to the image center.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignetting

Well put. This is the kind of thing I was getting at ages ago. Old Cameras and film in particular were vulnerable to this kind of thing, I know, I used such equipment from the 1950's 60;s.

[sarapuk]

This is a lovely clip -
My theory would be that this is an incandescent orb generated from an ion stream travelling downwards. The blue violet layer being nitrogen excited by the electrons as they close in and concentrate. Why only a horizontal layer before the excitation stops i don't know. Then the orb is weakly emitting hot NO2 "at it's poles" which immediately cools below +20C and is lost as a vapour/liquid.
Or it's just some CGI of course. 
Cool little object.

Doesnt look look like your classic Orb though. Looks solid as well.

[sarapuk]

Can be a finger in front of the lens, happens sometimes to me when shooting with the phone :)

Also your "black cloud" appears here:

It could also be due to a FILM PROCESSING ERROR. I used to do my own DEVELOPING and ENLARGING etc, and I often came across this problem. If I made a mistake with the processing chemicals for instance or just left the film in the solution for the wrong amount of time. So I rule out Nigels theory completely.

[Nigel Evans]

Good paper from the :-U.S. Department of Energy
Office of Scientific and Technical Informationhttps://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1107768

It considers the Fitzgerald event of 1868. - http://www.kc4cop.bizland.com/first_installment_extreme_ball_lightning.htm
Note the mass calculations.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Fitzgerald.....   big clanky ship that goes down in the worst storm of the century in 1975. 

Must be ball lightening.     

[Nigel Evans]

Fitzgerald.....   big clanky ship that goes down in the worst storm of the century in 1975. 

Must be ball lightening.     

No probably a rogue wave.
It's spelt ball lightning.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Ouch...   auto type made you hurt my one feeling.   

Its spelled 'spelled'.     

[Nigel Evans]

Ouch...   auto type made you hurt my one feeling.   

Its spelled 'spelled'.     

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/spelled-spelt/

Spelt - Proper English English.

Spelled - inferior american english...

[Loose}{Cannon]

Did you not see the laughing smiley?   Your not teaching me anything I dont already know.  Do I need to lock this topic for going off the rails? 

BTW.   Sometimes things are improved upon whether you like to admit it or not. 

[Nigel Evans]

Did you not see the laughing smiley?   Your not teaching me anything I dont already know.  Do I need to lock this topic for going off the rails? 

BTW.   Sometimes things are improved upon whether you like to admit it or not.

"Going off the rails".
and whose fault would that be?
Hint - "big clanky ship".
If you lock the "Real Ball Lightning theory" all that would be left is some nonsense in the other one...

[sarapuk]

Good paper from the :-U.S. Department of Energy
Office of Scientific and Technical Informationhttps://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1107768

It considers the Fitzgerald event of 1868. - http://www.kc4cop.bizland.com/first_installment_extreme_ball_lightning.htm
Note the mass calculations.

Nice interesting Post.  It all helps the cause.  ''Extreme Ball Lightning: New Physics,
New Energy Source, or Just Great Fun.''   ''No radiation sickness indicates ball
lightning does not emit ionizing radiation''. 

''Curious Phenomenon In Venezuela
Cowgill, Warner; Scientific American, 55:389, December 18, 1886
During the night of the 24th of October last, which was rainy and tempestuous, a family of nine
persons, sleeping in a hut a few leagues from Maracaibo, were awakened by a loud humming noise and
a vivid, dazzling light, which brilliantly illuminated the interior of the house. The occupants, completely
terror stricken, and believing, as they relate, that the end of the world had come, threw themselves on
their knees and commenced to pray, but their devotions were almost immediately interrupted by violent
vomitings, and extensive swellings commenced to appear in the upper part of their bodies, this being
particularly noticeable about the face and lips. It is to be noted that the brilliant light was not accompanied
by a sensation of heat, although there was a smoky appearance and a peculiar smell.
The next morning the swellings had subsided, leaving upon the face and body large black blotches. No
special pain was felt until the ninth day, when the skin peeled off, and these blotches were transformed
into virulent raw sores. The hairs of the head fell off upon the side which happened to be underneath
when the phenomenon occurred, the same side of the body being, in all nine cases, the more seriously
injured.
The remarkable part of the occurrence is that the house was uninjured, all doors and windows being
closed at the time. No trace of lightning could afterward be observed in any part of the building, and all
the sufferers unite in saying that there was no detonation, but only the loud humming already mentioned.
Another curious attendant circumstance is that the trees around the house showed no signs of injury
until the ninth day, when they suddenly withered, almost simultaneously with the development of the
sores upon the bodies of the occupants of the house. This is perhaps a mere coincidence, but it is
remarkable that the same susceptibility to electrical effects, with the same lapse of time, should be
observed in both animal and vegetable organisms.
I have visited the sufferers, who are now in one of the hospitals of this city; and although their
appearance is truly horrible, yet it is hoped that in no case will the injuries prove fatal.<End of Sci. Amer.
article''

Certainly some aspects of this Paper that are worth looking at in more detail.

[Nigel Evans]

That all seems consistent with ball lightning phenomena, the smoke and smell probably being NO2/O3 but not sufficiently concentrated to cause respiratory problems. A couple of interesting facets wrt the DPI are the white hair and the facial sores, both of which some members of the group exhibited. It's been my view for some time that the facial "combat injuries" are probably from microwave radiation. (weaker than in this Venezuela case). Zinaida was found with her face covered in blood and the morgue photos show her sores after cleanup. In India they have the "munochwa" = "face scratcher" see - https://www.skeptica.dk/?p=1191 for a discussion. All electro magnetism of course.

[sarapuk]

That all seems consistent with ball lightning phenomena, the smoke and smell probably being NO2/O3 but not sufficiently concentrated to cause respiratory problems. A couple of interesting facets wrt the DPI are the white hair and the facial sores, both of which some members of the group exhibited. It's been my view for some time that the facial "combat injuries" are probably from microwave radiation. (weaker than in this Venezuela case). Zinaida was found with her face covered in blood and the morgue photos show her sores after cleanup. In India they have the "munochwa" = "face scratcher" see - https://www.skeptica.dk/?p=1191 for a discussion. All electro magnetism of course.

Yes there do appear to be possible similarities with some of the Dyatlov group injuries. There must be many incidents from around the World over time that have never been reported or recorded. Maybe involving just one or two people. And maybe some of those people didnt survive to tell the story !  ?  Interesting story about the ''Face Scratcher''. But the mention of DROUGHT conditions playing a part needs to be considered carefully because similar incidents involving these mystery lights may have occurred where there was no drought , etc.

[Nigel Evans]

That all seems consistent with ball lightning phenomena, the smoke and smell probably being NO2/O3 but not sufficiently concentrated to cause respiratory problems. A couple of interesting facets wrt the DPI are the white hair and the facial sores, both of which some members of the group exhibited. It's been my view for some time that the facial "combat injuries" are probably from microwave radiation. (weaker than in this Venezuela case). Zinaida was found with her face covered in blood and the morgue photos show her sores after cleanup. In India they have the "munochwa" = "face scratcher" see - https://www.skeptica.dk/?p=1191 for a discussion. All electro magnetism of course.

Yes there do appear to be possible similarities with some of the Dyatlov group injuries. There must be many incidents from around the World over time that have never been reported or recorded. Maybe involving just one or two people. And maybe some of those people didnt survive to tell the story !  ?  Interesting story about the ''Face Scratcher''. But the mention of DROUGHT conditions playing a part needs to be considered carefully because similar incidents involving these mystery lights may have occurred where there was no drought , etc.

The drought wont be relevant. Perhaps the heat that caused it. More important will be the terrain i would expect it to be flat farmland.
Here's a stated victim of the face scratcher, see any resemblance to the DPI?
 

[Nigel Evans]

The theory being that electrically we're no different to a hot dog 

[sarapuk]

That all seems consistent with ball lightning phenomena, the smoke and smell probably being NO2/O3 but not sufficiently concentrated to cause respiratory problems. A couple of interesting facets wrt the DPI are the white hair and the facial sores, both of which some members of the group exhibited. It's been my view for some time that the facial "combat injuries" are probably from microwave radiation. (weaker than in this Venezuela case). Zinaida was found with her face covered in blood and the morgue photos show her sores after cleanup. In India they have the "munochwa" = "face scratcher" see - https://www.skeptica.dk/?p=1191 for a discussion. All electro magnetism of course.

Yes there do appear to be possible similarities with some of the Dyatlov group injuries. There must be many incidents from around the World over time that have never been reported or recorded. Maybe involving just one or two people. And maybe some of those people didnt survive to tell the story !  ?  Interesting story about the ''Face Scratcher''. But the mention of DROUGHT conditions playing a part needs to be considered carefully because similar incidents involving these mystery lights may have occurred where there was no drought , etc.

The drought wont be relevant. Perhaps the heat that caused it. More important will be the terrain i would expect it to be flat farmland.
Here's a stated victim of the face scratcher, see any resemblance to the DPI?
 

I dont see any particular resemblance to any injuries on the bodies of the Dyatlov Group.

[sarapuk]

The theory being that electrically we're no different to a hot dog 

Well we all know what Electricity can do to the human body. Thats just one example you gave of many ways to FRY a piece of meat.