Specific details

[Nigel Evans]

However it could easily be explained if they had got those injuries and the den was built to keep them sheltered as they could not return to the tent. 

No it doesn't fit, the den was built for able bodied seated occupants, not people with flail chests or crushed skulls.

We don’t really know that it was built for able bodied people.  The seats were just a reconstruction.

Regards
Star man

Looks like they found four seats to me.

[sug2h]

Another narrative is that (assuming the crushed in the den by extreme force theory) any loose items would have been ejected from the den and thrown into the air landing on top of the snow.

Well, if the clothes were thrown in the air February 1 or 2, then they would have been under feet of snow in May. Just like the den.

The fact that the den was just so big that four people could fit there means they didn't count on the return of the trio. They were divided into two groups and each of them dealt with their situation separately? Or after the trio did not return for a long time, the four decided that they would build the den because they already knew the trio could not return to the tent?

Or maybe this den was for the group of 3, and another den was built for the Rav4, and was not found. (carried away by the river?)

Or this den is a setup.

[Nigel Evans]

Another narrative is that (assuming the crushed in the den by extreme force theory) any loose items would have been ejected from the den and thrown into the air landing on top of the snow.

Well, if the clothes were thrown in the air February 1 or 2, then they would have been under feet of snow in May. Just like the den.It's my assumption that the snow depth in the ravine was constant through the winter. This is a sub polar climate. The ravine filled up with snow in say October/November and then when it was full the wind pushed the snow along elsewhere. So the snow depth didn't change from December to June.

The fact that the den was just so big that four people could fit there means they didn't count on the return of the trio. They were divided into two groups and each of them dealt with their situation separately? Or after the trio did not return for a long time, the four decided that they would build the den because they already knew the trio could not return to the tent?

Or maybe this den was for the group of 3, and another den was built for the Rav4, and was not found. (carried away by the river?)

Or this den is a setup.Maybe they kept a watch at the fire and rotated usage of the den? I don't think the den was a setup. They died in the den, under the snow.

[User45]

Did all the cloth found in the den also ALL belong to the hikers?

The tree branches were cut (thick tree braches), but this I have read was supposedly only possible with a small axe? I cannot see how such thick branches can be cut with a pocket knife? Or one could have fallen from the top of the tree and fell on the branches with his body causing it to split but would this be the case? My question is: Where is this axe? Wasn't one axe missing in the tent?

Please correct me if I am wrong with my information

[Star man]

However it could easily be explained if they had got those injuries and the den was built to keep them sheltered as they could not return to the tent. 

No it doesn't fit, the den was built for able bodied seated occupants, not people with flail chests or crushed skulls.

We don’t really know that it was built for able bodied people.  The seats were just a reconstruction.

Regards
Star man

Looks like they found four seats to me.

I thought that the four seats, or pieces of clothing were put there by the rescue team trying to reconstruct tHe den? 

Look at the positions of the clothes on the branches.  They are about as far away from each other as you can get.  In the four corners of the rectangular branch base.  Do you really think that in those conditions they would  try to keep as far apart as possible?  Doesn't seem right to me.

Regards

Star man

[Loose}{Cannon]

If I remember correctly, only one or two items of clothing were said to have been found under the snow and on top of the reported sticks making up the den floor.  The other articles of clothing were found on top of the snow some distance away between the ravine and the cedar.  There are other photos of the 'den floor' showing the sticks packed down, then at some point the search crew fluffed up the sticks and placed the other clothing in the picture shown above.  The sticks shown in the picture are said to be from juvenile trees (think 3 to 4 feet tall) and are not evergreen.  If I recall they were spruce?  lt is apparent in the photos these are basically twigs which would have been easy to snap off by hand.l, especially if you tear downward where they meet the trunk.

Hope this helps. 

[Nigel Evans]

However it could easily be explained if they had got those injuries and the den was built to keep them sheltered as they could not return to the tent. 

No it doesn't fit, the den was built for able bodied seated occupants, not people with flail chests or crushed skulls.

We don’t really know that it was built for able bodied people.  The seats were just a reconstruction.

Regards
Star man

Looks like they found four seats to me.

I thought that the four seats, or pieces of clothing were put there by the rescue team trying to reconstruct tHe den? 

Look at the positions of the clothes on the branches.  They are about as far away from each other as you can get.  In the four corners of the rectangular branch base.  Do you really think that in those conditions they would  try to keep as far apart as possible?  Doesn't seem right to me.

Regards

Star man

I think that's how they found it. There's several photos of "the uncovering".
Nicolai was found with his jacket unbuttoned and his gloves in his pockets, it wasn't that cold.

[User45]

If I remember correctly, only one or two items of clothing were said to have been found under the snow and on top of the reported sticks making up the den floor.  The other articles of clothing were found on top of the snow some distance away between the ravine and the cedar.  There are other photos of the 'den floor' showing the sticks packed down, then at some point the search crew fluffed up the sticks and placed the other clothing in the picture shown above.  The sticks shown in the picture are said to be from juvenile trees (think 3 to 4 feet tall) and are not evergreen.  If I recall they were spruce?  lt is apparent in the photos these are basically twigs which would have been easy to snap off by hand.l, especially if you tear downward where they meet the trunk.

Hope this helps.

Hello,

I absolutely appreciate your response!

Do you know how these branches were possibly broken? I am trying to have a better understanding with the details of the cedar tree.





And if I understand correctly there were no 'undentified' clothing found that could possibly not belong to one of the hikers?

Thanks again!

[Loose}{Cannon]

No sir, this photo clearly shows it in a less fluffed and staged/reconstructed state.

[Star man]

If I remember correctly, only one or two items of clothing were said to have been found under the snow and on top of the reported sticks making up the den floor.  The other articles of clothing were found on top of the snow some distance away between the ravine and the cedar.  There are other photos of the 'den floor' showing the sticks packed down, then at some point the search crew fluffed up the sticks and placed the other clothing in the picture shown above.  The sticks shown in the picture are said to be from juvenile trees (think 3 to 4 feet tall) and are not evergreen.  If I recall they were spruce?  lt is apparent in the photos these are basically twigs which would have been easy to snap off by hand.l, especially if you tear downward where they meet the trunk.

Hope this helps.

Hello,

I absolutely appreciate your response!

Do you know how these branches were possibly broken? I am trying to have a better understanding with the details of the cedar tree.





And if I understand correctly there were no 'undentified' clothing found that could possibly not belong to one of the hikers?

Thanks again!

The particular broken branch on the cedar that you are highlighting looks as if it has been pulled and snapped off.  I'm not an expert but I remember reading somewhere that the cedar tree branches are not too hard to break?

Regards

Star man

[Star man]

Some thoughts on Igor, Rustem and Zina. 

If they were all together heading back to the tent, and one of them can't go any further. Why would the others continue?

Let's say Igor falls first being less well dressed.  What would the other two do?  Would they try to help Igor?  Attempt to support him and carry him?  Would they stay with him until he died?  Or would they just leave him and continue on.  Igor was much closer to the cedar than the tent when he stopped.  Why would you continue on to the tent knowing that one of your friends has already collapsed after a short distance and you still have a significant way to go?  Why wouldn't you stop and realise that you are unlikely to make it, then turn around and go back to the cedar/ravine?

Where they really together travelling up the slope toward the tent?

Regards

Star man

[Nigel Evans]

Some thoughts on Igor, Rustem and Zina. 

If they were all together heading back to the tent, and one of them can't go any further. Why would the others continue?

Let's say Igor falls first being less well dressed.  What would the other two do?  Would they try to help Igor?  Attempt to support him and carry him?  Would they stay with him until he died?  Or would they just leave him and continue on.  Igor was much closer to the cedar than the tent when he stopped.  Why would you continue on to the tent knowing that one of your friends has already collapsed after a short distance and you still have a significant way to go?  Why wouldn't you stop and realise that you are unlikely to make it, then turn around and go back to the cedar/ravine?

Where they really together travelling up the slope toward the tent?

Regards

Star man

I'd opt for Zina and Rustem travelling together, Igor separately. They were on a path heading for the tent.

[Clacon]

Hmmm, I don't know...my woman's intuition tells me that Igor had a thing for Zina - why else would he have a photo of her on his person??

Because it seems the feeling wasn't mutual (based on her diary entries...not explicitly stated that she wasn't interested or even that he expressed interest, just the lack of mention of him in particular in her diary makes me think this), I think he would have stuck with her; attempting to keep her safe. Or maybe she did feel something for him and stuck with him? Either way, I don't think its random that they were found grouped together.

Rustem's body being so close to them is a mystery...and then there's evidence that all 3 were involved in some sort of fist fight....perhaps I'm wrong about Zina and Igor - perhaps they fought and somehow Rustem was involved?

How many agree that they never made it to the ravine? Someone mentioned they help build it and then went back to the tent....however if the den was relatively warm and they were making a perilous journey back up a windy slope....wouldn't those in the ravine have given them any extra clothing??

[sarapuk]

Some thoughts on Igor, Rustem and Zina. 

If they were all together heading back to the tent, and one of them can't go any further. Why would the others continue?

Let's say Igor falls first being less well dressed.  What would the other two do?  Would they try to help Igor?  Attempt to support him and carry him?  Would they stay with him until he died?  Or would they just leave him and continue on.  Igor was much closer to the cedar than the tent when he stopped.  Why would you continue on to the tent knowing that one of your friends has already collapsed after a short distance and you still have a significant way to go?  Why wouldn't you stop and realise that you are unlikely to make it, then turn around and go back to the cedar/ravine?

Where they really together travelling up the slope toward the tent?

Regards

Star man

This question crops up now and again in the Forum. There is no way we can tell If they were going up or down the Mountain slope. All we know is that they were found head up towards their last campsite. They may have died going down the slope, how can we know  !  ? 

[sarapuk]

Hmmm, I don't know...my woman's intuition tells me that Igor had a thing for Zina - why else would he have a photo of her on his person??

Because it seems the feeling wasn't mutual (based on her diary entries...not explicitly stated that she wasn't interested or even that he expressed interest, just the lack of mention of him in particular in her diary makes me think this), I think he would have stuck with her; attempting to keep her safe. Or maybe she did feel something for him and stuck with him? Either way, I don't think its random that they were found grouped together.

Rustem's body being so close to them is a mystery...and then there's evidence that all 3 were involved in some sort of fist fight....perhaps I'm wrong about Zina and Igor - perhaps they fought and somehow Rustem was involved?

How many agree that they never made it to the ravine? Someone mentioned they help build it and then went back to the tent....however if the den was relatively warm and they were making a perilous journey back up a windy slope....wouldn't those in the ravine have given them any extra clothing??

What evidence is there that there was a fist fight  !  ?  We dont know if it was a Den as such.

[Star man]

Hmmm, I don't know...my woman's intuition tells me that Igor had a thing for Zina - why else would he have a photo of her on his person??

Because it seems the feeling wasn't mutual (based on her diary entries...not explicitly stated that she wasn't interested or even that he expressed interest, just the lack of mention of him in particular in her diary makes me think this), I think he would have stuck with her; attempting to keep her safe. Or maybe she did feel something for him and stuck with him? Either way, I don't think its random that they were found grouped together.

Rustem's body being so close to them is a mystery...and then there's evidence that all 3 were involved in some sort of fist fight....perhaps I'm wrong about Zina and Igor - perhaps they fought and somehow Rustem was involved?

How many agree that they never made it to the ravine? Someone mentioned they help build it and then went back to the tent....however if the den was relatively warm and they were making a perilous journey back up a windy slope....wouldn't those in the ravine have given them any extra clothing??

I would agree that Dyatlov had a thing for Zina and may have been very protective of her.  There may have been a fight of some kind within the group, brought on by the stress of the situation and having to make life or death decisions.  Dyatlov was the leader, but under the circumstances they may have decided not to follow his survival plan and the group split.

I am beginning to think that they did not hang around until any of the other group members died, which would explain why they didn't have any clothes.  Saying that Dyatlov did have Yudin's sweater which Yudin gave to Krivonischenko.  Not sure how to explain that one without Dyatlov being at the cedar after Yuri K died.

I must admit its puzzling.

Regards

Star man

[Monika]

Hmmm, I don't know...my woman's intuition tells me that Igor had a thing for Zina - why else would he have a photo of her on his person??

Because it seems the feeling wasn't mutual (based on her diary entries...not explicitly stated that she wasn't interested or even that he expressed interest, just the lack of mention of him in particular in her diary makes me think this), I think he would have stuck with her; attempting to keep her safe. Or maybe she did feel something for him and stuck with him? Either way, I don't think its random that they were found grouped together.

Rustem's body being so close to them is a mystery...and then there's evidence that all 3 were involved in some sort of fist fight....perhaps I'm wrong about Zina and Igor - perhaps they fought and somehow Rustem was involved?

How many agree that they never made it to the ravine? Someone mentioned they help build it and then went back to the tent....however if the den was relatively warm and they were making a perilous journey back up a windy slope....wouldn't those in the ravine have given them any extra clothing??

Hello, here is my point of view.
Since the den was to build only four people, it is evident that the trio Igor, Zina and Rustem decided to address the situation of their own way.The group split, one managed by Igor and the other by Zolotarev. Why? I do not know. Pieces of clothing could be scattered on the way between the cedar and the den by the "ravine group" for the trio if they changed their minds and wanted to come to them later.

[Clacon]

Hey Monika - I think you're right. I think there was a division in the group and I think the 2 personalities that would have taken control were Dyatlov (being the expedition leader) and Zolotaryov (being the oldest by quite a few years and probably the most experienced).

I'm really not sure about Semyon - he's a mystery. I think I read somewhere on the website that he was quiet and sort stuck to himself. So it doesn't strike me that he tried to take control from the start and that there is "tension" between Igor and him in the pictures of them together. Of which there are not many - that may be telling in itself. However, based on his military experience and age, I think he would have been compelled to step up as a leader when things got bad.

I've always been suspicious of him though - why was he even there?? I'm not saying he murdered the group - but he's certainly sketchy enough to warrant suspicion. I think he "knew people" (and what about his supposed tattoos??!!). But that's all I can say for certain.

Star Man - thanks for backing me up! Lol. With respect to him having Yudin's/Krivonischenko's sweater....perhaps the Yuris' deaths are what triggered the group to split?

Sarapuk: we don't know there was a fistfight, however there is evidence of abrasions on all of Igor's knuckles. It even says "This is common injury in hand to hand fights. To get a better idea of the injuries just make a fist. This is the part of the hand which you use to hit someone." It also appears his face a little beaten up: 3.brown-red abrasions above the left eyebrow
4.minor abrasions on the left cheek
5.brown-red abrasions on both cheeks
6.dried blood on lips

All of Zina's knuckles also had abrasions, plus she had abrasions on her cheekbones and face. Rustem as well.

I know you're skeptical of the reports, but something was going on....either it was a fistfight or they got the hand injuries digging (??)….not sure how to explain the face abrasions, but perhaps it was the beginnings of frostbite or decay??

[sarapuk]

Hey Monika - I think you're right. I think there was a division in the group and I think the 2 personalities that would have taken control were Dyatlov (being the expedition leader) and Zolotaryov (being the oldest by quite a few years and probably the most experienced).

I'm really not sure about Semyon - he's a mystery. I think I read somewhere on the website that he was quiet and sort stuck to himself. So it doesn't strike me that he tried to take control from the start and that there is "tension" between Igor and him in the pictures of them together. Of which there are not many - that may be telling in itself. However, based on his military experience and age, I think he would have been compelled to step up as a leader when things got bad.

I've always been suspicious of him though - why was he even there?? I'm not saying he murdered the group - but he's certainly sketchy enough to warrant suspicion. I think he "knew people" (and what about his supposed tattoos??!!). But that's all I can say for certain.

Star Man - thanks for backing me up! Lol. With respect to him having Yudin's/Krivonischenko's sweater....perhaps the Yuris' deaths are what triggered the group to split?

Sarapuk: we don't know there was a fistfight, however there is evidence of abrasions on all of Igor's knuckles. It even says "This is common injury in hand to hand fights. To get a better idea of the injuries just make a fist. This is the part of the hand which you use to hit someone." It also appears his face a little beaten up: 3.brown-red abrasions above the left eyebrow
4.minor abrasions on the left cheek
5.brown-red abrasions on both cheeks
6.dried blood on lips

All of Zina's knuckles also had abrasions, plus she had abrasions on her cheekbones and face. Rustem as well.

I know you're skeptical of the reports, but something was going on....either it was a fistfight or they got the hand injuries digging (??)….not sure how to explain the face abrasions, but perhaps it was the beginnings of frostbite or decay??

Yes we know about the abrasion type injuries from the Autopsy Reports. But lets not forget that those who carried out the Autopsies didnt have much to go by, ie , they would have been told as much as we know. And we simply dont know if there was any fighting. Its not like your average pub brawl with lots of witnesses etc. The abrasion type injuries could have been the result of them hitting something other than another human. And the facial abrasion type injuries could have been the result of something hitting them in the face. Or there may be another explanation.

[Star man]

The cedar.

There seems to be some puzzling things about the scene at the cedar.  Particularly when trying to understand the context of:

Who was there and when?
What the timeline was
The circumstances around the death of the two Yuris.

I think it is fair to assume that the two Yuris died there.

I also think it is fair to assume that they climbed the cedar given the location of scratches, bruises and abrasions.  Also the needles in Yuri Ds hair.

So if they arrived at the cedar with other group members who were probably better dressed, less likely to be suffering from frost bite, hypothermia and therefore more capable of climbing the cedar to collect fire wood or to look back towards the tent- why would the two Yuris have climbed the tree? Why would they not just rely on those in better shape?

So if they arrived at the cedar alone and managed to climb the tree and build a fire large enough to last an hour or so, why did they die of hypothermia given that they had a good fire going and why did Yuri K sustain a significant burn to his leg either during or after his death?

We know that at some point one or more members of the ravine 4 were there and they removed some of their clothing but we don’t know for sure if they were there before or after the Yuris died.

In either of the above scenarios there is something that doesn’t add up.

Even if the fire was made by others while  the two Yuris were struggling to survive why had the Yuris climbed the tree?

Were they trying to get away from someone or something and thought the tree would provide more safety?

If they were alone and climbed the tree to get fire wood how did they manage to make a good fire using matches and then die next to the fire when the fire was still sufficiently hot enough to cause severe burns to Yuri Ks leg?

Regards
Star man

[Star man]

Another question:

Irrespective of whatever reason the group left the tent given the conditions and lack of good outer clothing the group would know they had a better chance of surviving if they stayed together and worked as a team. But there are indications that they split up on the slope?  If they did split up what reason(s) could there be for this?

Is it possible that someone or something was persuing them and they inadvertently split up while trying to evade them?

Regards
Star man

[sarapuk]

There certainly is a puzzle regarding the CEDAR TREE. Along with the other BIG PUZZLES at THE TENT, THE SLOPE, THE SO CALLED RAVINE. My thoughts are that whoever climbed the Cedar Tree did so to avoid something, not to look out for something or to gather wood.

[sarapuk]

Another question:

Irrespective of whatever reason the group left the tent given the conditions and lack of good outer clothing the group would know they had a better chance of surviving if they stayed together and worked as a team. But there are indications that they split up on the slope?  If they did split up what reason(s) could there be for this?

Is it possible that someone or something was persuing them and they inadvertently split up while trying to evade them?

Regards
Star man

I think that that is probably the case or near enough the case. Something scared them out of the Tent and likely followed them down the slope. Question is then WHAT  !  ? 

[Star man]

Another question:

Irrespective of whatever reason the group left the tent given the conditions and lack of good outer clothing the group would know they had a better chance of surviving if they stayed together and worked as a team. But there are indications that they split up on the slope?  If they did split up what reason(s) could there be for this?

Is it possible that someone or something was persuing them and they inadvertently split up while trying to evade them?

Regards
Star man

I think that that is probably the case or near enough the case. Something scared them out of the Tent and likely followed them down the slope. Question is then WHAT  !  ?

Yes.  That is what I am trying to understand too.   There are other scenarios that could  explain the scene at the cedar, but they become more and more unlikely and require a very specific set of events.

The most obvious reason for leaving the tent without shoes or outdoor gear is some kind of significant and immediate threat to life.

It seems to me on the face of it, that there is reasonable evidence/indications to suggest that group split up on the slope.  This flies in the face of all logical action that a group of skilled people who would have clearly understood their best options for survival.  Unless of course they were being pursued by the same threat that forcednthem from the tent and had to at some point scatter to evade that threat.

At the cedar - why did the Yuris climb that tree?  If it was for fire wood and they managed to make a fire then how come they died of hypothermia while the fire was still hot enough to burn them.  If other group members had been with them then  surely they would have climbed the tree to collect the wood?  And yet there is evidence that Yuris were in that tree.  So were they in the tree to evade the threat?

There is a single explanation that can answer all of the above stages of the event.

1. They left the tent in a hurry because there was a significant threat
2. They split up on the slope because there was a significant threat and they were forced to scatter in an act of self preservation.
3. The Yuris and maybe others, climed the cedar to find a place of safety away from the threat.

but what was the threat?

Maybe it's time to explore the Yeti theory in more detail.  Even if they don't exist 

Regards

Star man.

[Morski]

WAB said it in another comment, but Confucious words fit perfectly in the Yeti theme  - "It is difficult to find a black cat in a dark room. Especially when there is no cat in the room."   

[Morski]

Could the whole starting of the event that night - from leaving the tent, (eventually) splitting in groups on the slope, and the Cedar happening, be triggered simply by irrational behavior?

It is, of course, more logical to assume, that there was an immanent (physical) threat - someone/something, but what if this someone or something wasn`t really there? Irrational actions caused by some sort of poisoning or by natural phenomenon. I kind of think, that what happened that night is a complex mix of irrational and rational decisions and actions.
 
The Big question with this hypothesis, is why and how all of them were affected. Or not all of them?

[Star man]

Could the whole starting of the event that night - from leaving the tent, (eventually) splitting in groups on the slope, and the Cedar happening, be triggered simply by irrational behavior?

It is, of course, more logical to assume, that there was an immanent (physical) threat - someone/something, but what if this someone or something wasn`t really there? Irrational actions caused by some sort of poisoning or by natural phenomenon. I kind of think, that what happened that night is a complex mix of irrational and rational decisions and actions.
 
The Big question with this hypothesis, is why and how all of them were affected. Or not all of them?

Yeah.  I think rational and irrational behaviour and decisions has to be considered.  But why would there be sudden step change in behaviour?  For example the scene inside the tent appears to be reasonably orderly (apart from the shoes).  Also it seems that the pamphlet (if it existed) was clearly written and logical and wouldn’t indicate anything abnormal.  Also they seemed to be in the process of eating or just finished eating which is quite a rational and orderly process.  Then suddenly they start behaving irrationally?  Just seems odd.

Regards
Star man

[sarapuk]

[[  Maybe it's time to explore the Yeti theory in more detail.  Even if they don't exist  ]]

There are plenty of reports of strange large and tall ape like creatures going back hundreds of years probably.  Its like with many other strange creatures, plenty of reports. And also of course the UFO phenomenon. Problem is regarding the Dyatlov Incident, we have no WITNESSES or REAL EVIDENCE of any such creature. We do have reports of UFO's in the area of the Dyatlov Incident though.  Could there be a connection between these MYSTERY CREATURES and UFO's  !  ? 

[sarapuk]

WAB said it in another comment, but Confucious words fit perfectly in the Yeti theme  - "It is difficult to find a black cat in a dark room. Especially when there is no cat in the room."   

Well I dont think this Confucious saying helps us much. More like Confucious CONFUSION.

[sarapuk]

Could the whole starting of the event that night - from leaving the tent, (eventually) splitting in groups on the slope, and the Cedar happening, be triggered simply by irrational behavior?

It is, of course, more logical to assume, that there was an immanent (physical) threat - someone/something, but what if this someone or something wasn`t really there? Irrational actions caused by some sort of poisoning or by natural phenomenon. I kind of think, that what happened that night is a complex mix of irrational and rational decisions and actions.
 
The Big question with this hypothesis, is why and how all of them were affected. Or not all of them?

Irrational behaviour  !  ?  HIGHLY UNLIKELY.  Behaviour of people who are scared stiff more like. Injuries of a MUTILATION TYPE not by any other Human Being.  Radiation unexplained ETC ETC.