August 05, 2020, 06:12:57 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: My short take on murder.  (Read 6930 times)

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August 26, 2019, 04:02:44 AM
Reply #60
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Per Inge Oestmoen


One thing about the murder theory that I think needs to be explained is this:

Why did the attackers leave Kolevatov alive?  His injuries don’t seem to be any where near as significant as the other rav 4.

Also, why use such primitive methods to take them out?  I don’t think anyone could say that they used primitive methods to remove suspicion of murder.

Regards
Star man


I see no primitivity here.

To force the victims out of the tent in the expectation that the cold would do the job would be a very sensible thing to do for attackers who wanted to make it look like an accident. The killers knew that the nine students could not escape.

However, the temperature on this particular night was insufficient to kill the victims even after the assailants had made sure that their victims were not properly dressed, the victims had to be hunted down to accomplish the mission. This explains the injuries, and it explains why the last four had more severe injuries: They were somewhat better dressed, and had to be subjected to greater force in order to make sure that they died.

It was said that Kolevatov did not have injuries severe enough to cause death. On the contrary, his injuries are very probably lethal and strongly suggestive of him being attacked by trained killers:

"- lack of soft tissues around eyes, eyebrows are missing, skull bones are exposed
- the bridge of the nose is straight; the nose cartilage is soft when palpated and has unusual mobility; the base of the nose is flattened with the nostrils compressed (this doesn't necessarily mean broken nose)
- open wound behind ear, size 3x1.5 cm
- deformed neck
- diffuse bleeding in the underlying tissues of the left knee (not shown on diagram)
- softened and whitened skin (maceration) of the fingers and feet, sign consisted with putrefaction in a wet environment
- overall skin had a gray green color with a tinge of purple

This autopsy had similar strange silence about the injuries of the victim. Broken nose, open wound behind the ear and deformed neck might be the result of a fight and be cause of death. On the other hand it could have been caused by natural elements since the body was exposed to nature for three whole months. Yet the doctor ignores this matter and doesn't try to explain the reason for these strange injuries. We should probably add that snapped neck and blow behind the ear is a common sign of killing performed by special forces. However we can't be sure about this since the autopsy report didn't specify any more details about the body. We are left guessing on the nature and origin of these injuries."

(https://dyatlovpass.com/death#Kolevatov)

Like the others, Kolevatov suffered injuries consistent with a human attack. The close combat techniques used to create such injuries are by no means "primitive." They are brutally effective.

There are numerous testimonies from people involved in the first response and search back in 1959 that all say that they were told to say that the Dyatlov pass tragedy was an accident. Which would be another strong suggestion that it was something very different.

August 26, 2019, 04:10:15 AM
Reply #61
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Per Inge Oestmoen


Yes they may well have climbed the Tree to escape from something. Something that was scaring the living daylights out of them. Not a group of murderers or murderer.


When people are so scared that they desperately try to climb a tree with their bare hands, destroying their hands in the attempt to escape, the probability is high that what scared them were other human beings who pursued them.

August 26, 2019, 10:44:48 PM
Reply #62
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Star man

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Yes they may well have climbed the Tree to escape from something. Something that was scaring the living daylights out of them. Not a group of murderers or murderer.


When people are so scared that they desperately try to climb a tree with their bare hands, destroying their hands in the attempt to escape, the probability is high that what scared them were other human beings who pursued them.

So is truer here agreement here that they climbed the tree to escape?  If that is the case then the next question would've from what or whom.  Is climbing a tree a successful escape strategy to evade humans.  Unlikely humans are intelligent and resourceful.  Would they climb the tree to escape a yeti or some other animal.  Probably not a good strategy either as most animals are better climbers than humans.  It would give them the high ground though.

Regards

Star man

August 27, 2019, 11:37:04 AM
Reply #63
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Yes they may well have climbed the Tree to escape from something. Something that was scaring the living daylights out of them. Not a group of murderers or murderer.


When people are so scared that they desperately try to climb a tree with their bare hands, destroying their hands in the attempt to escape, the probability is high that what scared them were other human beings who pursued them.

Highly Debatable. More likely to be a wild animal that would scare people to such an extent or some other Being or unknown force.
DB

August 27, 2019, 12:18:26 PM
Reply #64
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Loose}{Cannon

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I hear unicorn farts are so rancid, you will do anything to get above the lingering cloud. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

October 10, 2019, 07:02:42 PM
Reply #65
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Per Inge Oestmoen


Yes they may well have climbed the Tree to escape from something. Something that was scaring the living daylights out of them. Not a group of murderers or murderer.


When people are so scared that they desperately try to climb a tree with their bare hands, destroying their hands in the attempt to escape, the probability is high that what scared them were other human beings who pursued them.

Highly Debatable. More likely to be a wild animal that would scare people to such an extent or some other Being or unknown force.


There is no signs that any of the victims were attacked by animals. There were no bite marks and no scratches from claws on any of them.

Their injuries and deaths strongly point to deliberate, violent and merciless human action.

November 06, 2019, 11:35:44 AM
Reply #66
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Yes they may well have climbed the Tree to escape from something. Something that was scaring the living daylights out of them. Not a group of murderers or murderer.


When people are so scared that they desperately try to climb a tree with their bare hands, destroying their hands in the attempt to escape, the probability is high that what scared them were other human beings who pursued them.

Well there were scratch marks of sorts on some of the bodies  !  ?  And the crush injuries.

Highly Debatable. More likely to be a wild animal that would scare people to such an extent or some other Being or unknown force.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 04:03:42 PM by sarapuk »
DB

March 09, 2020, 01:34:11 PM
Reply #67
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Monty


Having re-read this thread several times, but stopping when it starts to diverge it's actually not a bad one. Punch up in the tent perhaps someone made a mountain out of a molehill. Spills out with someone waving a knife around. Jacket tied round arm to use as shield and then dropped. Whomever was the aggressor gets a kicking. Tent is rendered useless so decent into trees. That would mean one of the three the OP examines as being in receipt of a kicking and this the aggressor.
Why, oh why, leave yer boots? That's where it peters out.

June 12, 2020, 01:27:33 AM
Reply #68
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sparrow


Does anybody know if the Mansi, etc. served in the military?

June 12, 2020, 02:34:35 PM
Reply #69
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RidgeWatcher


Moose Hunting Strategy:

One hunter, half circles around the back (Auspiya/Cache), while catching their prey while at their least protected and unguarded moment. Knives and ice shovel are no much for rifles or guns. The Hunter's other team members who have gone north then west along the Lovza river are waiting and have already dug a bough lined pit to bury their prey. Bough line because it will soak up the blood and body content, so when they return later to gather up their kill they can empty the mass grave easily clean/cover up by throwing the dirty boughs in the steam when it thaws. At the cedar tree when the Dyatlov group are all together and ready to fight as a unit, the "one hunter" knows he is outnumbered. He waits until his Hunter buddies move from the grave to the cedar tree. Now the group can exercise control over the Dyatlov group. Could a few of the Hunters have started small fire as a beacon to all the hunters on that cold snowy night?

I think the first to move to the tent was Zina, Rustem and Igor. This was personal. Igor and Rustem (most athletic) put up a fight, they had to use more force on the stronger Rustem. Notice how Zina's face was mostly spared, they had known/talked with her and liked her. They took her down by hitting her around the side torso. They couldn't hit her face. They had talked, sang and drank with her.

When everyone, Hunters and the Dyatlov group were back at the Cedar and grouped together the Dyatlov group exchanged clothing depending on need and time constraint but then the Dyatlov 4 ran towards the ravine but were eventually rounded up caught and beaten and tortured. Is there any proof that the bough den ws made by the Dyatlo group?

The Hunters returned to the Cedar to encounter the desperate and dying Yuri's. Either the Yuri's or the Hunters climbed the Cedar to survey if they needed to tie up any loose ends. Maybe a Mansi hunter came upon the scene the following morning/day and scared the Hunters off and back down towards 2nd North, Settlement 41 or even Ivdel.

The two women were the controls in the group. The fun and well liked Zina and the outspoken and staunch Lyudmilla. Is it a coincidence the Zina's face was spared and Lyudmilal's tongue was missing?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 07:45:55 PM by RidgeWatcher »

June 12, 2020, 05:38:33 PM
Reply #70
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sparrow


I read that a Mansi told someone that they used that area for camping when they went hunting in that area. Just a little second and third hand information.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 05:55:04 PM by sparrow »

June 12, 2020, 07:59:39 PM
Reply #71
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RidgeWatcher


You are probably saying something that is true. There were lots of signs of Mansi hunting that far into the forested canyons going up towards the Dyatlov Pass.

I have two questions about that, though:

1) The unknown stranger in the photo is not dressed in army way like a Mansi Hunter and definitely looks much more like one of the men back at Settlement 41. And remember that there were aa lot more buildings there than we saw men being photographed. The same for Ivdel.

2) The Mansi word meaning for Kholat Syakhl as The Mountain of the Dead, meaning that there isn't a lot of game to hunt in that area is suspicious to me because the Dyatlov ski tourists found a lot of hunting signs, track and some very recent.

Don't you think that is strange for a mountain area that is being actively hunted in the dead of winter?

June 13, 2020, 08:58:55 AM
Reply #72
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alecsandros


1) The unknown stranger in the photo is not dressed in army way like a Mansi Hunter and definitely looks much more like one of the men back at Settlement 41. And remember that there were aa lot more buildings there than we saw men being photographed. The same for Ivdel.
Are you reffering to photo no17 of Thibeaux-Brignolle's camera ?

June 18, 2020, 01:08:35 PM
Reply #73
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Georgi


I believe the main issue with any of the murder theories I have seen to date is the lack of motive.

The motive is an unknown and likely can never be known, we can speculate till the end of time but unless someone comes up with a confession or somewhere in the Russian archives is evidence of what happened we probably will never know. Maybe one or more of them were targeted, maybe they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. This could have been a murder because the wrong group of people just happened to cross the Dyatlov group and they felt like there would be no repercussions so why not? This could be an attack by the Government of the USSR, the KGB, the CIA, Soviet or western special forces. The group might have seen something, or they may have gone by something they didn’t notice but someone couldn’t take the chance. It could also have happened because one or more of the party were on the hike for something other than love of the sport and were working for the Soviet Government and/or the American government. The reason could be something that seems logical to the person who orders the attack, and it might be something that was small but to the wrong person it becomes a valid reason for murder. This could have been a powerful person whose child was rejected from the hiking club or by one of the girls or guys and subsequently committed suicide and this was retaliation. This could also be something as stupid as one of the hikers telling somebody off at some point during the trip and that person could not take that insult. Maybe they met someone on the trail, a fight happened and they were killed because of that fight. Or it could be completely random with a group of soldiers or special forces on an exercise in the region, cross the group, it might have started as a fun game for the attackers to scare them and one of the hikers died so subsequently they decided to get rid of all the witnesses. It could have also been retaliation for something one of the parents had done years before and this seemed like the perfect revenge, kill their child and leave them without knowing what happened for the rest of their lives and make sure no one gets suspicious by covering it up with 8 other murders. Or this could have been a message for the soviet government from another government and the Dyatlov Group just happened to be the unlucky one that was chosen. There could be hundreds of reasons, many of which would be so incredibly stupid that would make your brain hurt, but if you have someone powerful with access to trained killers it wouldn’t matter if it was a valid reason or not because to them its worth it.

If it was revenge, 9 people died 8 of them died to cover the actual target and the team that killed them have every incentive to keep their mouths shut. I have met people that are so thin skinned or so full of themselves that if you embarrass them whether intentionally or not they will retaliate disproportionately. Hell you don't even have to embarrass them, a passing remark, an action that offends no one but they see as directed at them and its enough for the wrong person.

The list of potential motives is very long and worse, we might not consider a lot of things as motive for mass murder but someone who does not value human life much or at all might consider them valid reactions and if that person is in a position of power that gives them an outlet.


June 18, 2020, 01:15:44 PM
Reply #74
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Georgi




Lack of motive AND lack of evidence for anyone else on the mountain that night. Also, the fact that money, food, alcohol, skis and clothing were left behind in the tent. Those would be valuable to a lot of would-be attackers out there in the middle of the winter.
For common criminals? Yes. For escaped convict? Definitely. For anyone who wants to do their best to confuse the investigation? Probably not.

If they were murdered and their camera's, money, alcohol, ski's, tent, watches and everything else valuable was taken this would not be all that much of a mystery, someone killed them and robbed them case closed. Yet here we are 60+ years later with no real answers as to what actually happened, so if they were murdered the killers confused the issue so much that no one can still come up with conclusive theory.

June 18, 2020, 01:24:23 PM
Reply #75
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Georgi


Or, those injuries are from a fight within in the group as things got desperate around the fire and some disagreement broke out. Or relating back to the decision to abandon the tent. It is interesting that Igor, Rustem and Zina were found more than 150 meters apart from each if they were going back to the tent. It's as if they went separately.

I know this is not exactly scientific but based on the watches, we could use the time they stopped as time of death +/- 30 minutes. Which would lead us to believe that Igor died first before 5:30 AM while Slobodin left for the tent ~3 hours later at which point he was weakened by his injuries and the cold and died on the way there, maybe he left with Zina and he collapsed while she continued for some time but collapsed soon after and died.

June 18, 2020, 03:19:32 PM
Reply #76
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Morski


What you don`t need for a natural theory, is what you utmost need for a murder one - motive. By saying "natural" I am not completely excluding even a quarrel among them, which went wrong. No matter how unlikely it sounds. Of course, it is impossible to say why it may have happened, but it seem like you need little less "motive" compared to a deliberate or - unplanned/taken out by mistake - homicide version of the events.

If it was a tragedy triggered by a natural event or phenomenon, you safely exclude tons of obstacles and complexities, which would require exceptional circumstances to occur. By saying exceptional circumstances, at least we know about the furies winds that shake down the slopes around Kholat Syakhl - . So the geography of the surroundings suggest interesting events. Potentially.
But murder - if it was at least closer to civilization... But in the middle of nowhere? You need a very strong motive, otherwise it is pure fantasy. Think about the resources, or the human effort to follow/stalk them, to endure basically the same struggles (and not taking anything from them afterwards), to be able to stay away/hide so you are not noticed, or, to perform a good cover up... Why?!
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 03:23:54 PM by Morski »

June 18, 2020, 03:56:01 PM
Reply #77
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Georgi


What you don`t need for a natural theory, is what you utmost need for a murder one - motive. By saying "natural" I am not completely excluding even a quarrel among them, which went wrong. No matter how unlikely it sounds. Of course, it is impossible to say why it may have happened, but it seem like you need little less "motive" compared to a deliberate or - unplanned/taken out by mistake - homicide version of the events.
We don't need to know the motive to determine if its murder or not. There are a lot of killings where the motive is not clear and the perpetrator is not known but it is clearly murder. There could have been a motive that none of the Dyatlov party understood because it could have been so insignificant that it never crossed their mind that the insignificant action would prompt someone to commit mass murder. All you need is someone with the means, and a fragile ego or on the other hand it could have been nothing but a case of a mistaken identity.


When looking at a natural theory you need to find a reason why they left the safety of the tent and why they believed that they were safer outside the tent and a few hundred meters from the tent rather than inside with their clothes, tools and weapons and then we need to have an explanation as to how they received the rest of the injuries.

June 19, 2020, 01:56:58 AM
Reply #78
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janeeyre2150


It’s possible it all started in the tent yes and you are right that there is no time stamp so they may have left in smaller groups.  But why would they do that?  Also if someone had forced the others to leave it’s unlikely that they themselves would leave the tent poorly dressed and without their boots. I don’t think anyone of them had all of their outdoor gear on?

The bodies on the slope could have been going either up or down. But one thing that is unlikely to be coincidental is that they were all in a straight line. This indicates that they were likely to all have started from the same place and were heading in the same direction. So they were probably travelling together. 

It seems that almost any theory can only be based on the most probable events.  Unless it’s possible to piece together more solid clues and evidence .

There are theories that before the searchers could find their bodies, someone else had already found them and apparently there were signs that some of the bodies were moved, some theory even goes to say that the people who got there before the searchers are either the Mansi or the Military people/KGB and the way their bodies were found later on was not the exact position when they died because the bodies' positions were allegedly manipulated. I still strongly believe that whatever killed them that night was related to military/gvt shenanigans.

June 19, 2020, 02:04:46 AM
Reply #79
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janeeyre2150


I believe the main issue with any of the murder theories I have seen to date is the lack of motive.  Most of you may know I have issues with all theories, but I also see the possibilities in each as well.  I am most definitely not married to any one theory. That being said, I believe the most compelling aspects of any murder theory at its foundation are the injuries.  I wont go through them all but lets take three individuals that were NOT subject to months of rotting in a creek......  Igor, Rustem, and Zina.  These three individuals were literally frozen in place and intact. 


Igor

1. minor abrasions on the forehead
2. minor abrasions on the upper eyelids
3. brown-red abrasions above the left eyebrow
4. minor abrasions on the left cheek
5. brown-red abrasions on both cheeks
6. dried blood on lips

12. purple-gray discoloration on back side of the right hand
13. metacarpophalangeal joints on the right hand had brown red bruises. This is common injury in hand to hand fights. To get a better idea of the injuries just make a fist. This is the part of the hand which you use to hit someone.
14. left hand is brown-purple color with brownish-red bruises
15. superficial wounds on the 2nd and 5th finger on the left hand
16. skin wound in the palmar surface of the 2nd 5th finger of left hand





Now, when I look at all this its only logical to assume Igor was fighting someone or 'something'.  Even if you were to explain some of them away as injuries having acquired somehow other then fighting, Im not convinced you can eliminate all of them i.e if even ONE of them was caused by foul play......  you have a problem. 

Please take note of this injury in particular.
13. metacarpophalangeal joints on the right hand had brown red bruises. This is common injury in hand to hand fights. To get a better idea of the injuries just make a fist. This is the part of the hand which you use to hit someone.

Being a former Marine and a little rambunctious in a past life I can attest many of the above injuries are consistent with...... fighting. 



Rustem

1. hemorrhages in the temporalis muscles
2. minor brownish red abrasions on the forehead
3. two scratches are 1.5 cm long at the distance of 0.3 cm between them
4. brownish red bruise on the upper eyelid of the right eye with hemorrhage into the underlying tissues
5. traces of blood discharge from the nose
6. swelling and a lot of small abrasions on both sides of the face
7. bruises in the metacarpophalangeal joints on both hands (bruised knuckles). Similar bruises are common in hand to hand fight
8.brown cherry bruises on the medial aspect of the left arm and left palm
9. swollen lips
10. bruises on the left tibia in dimensions at 2.5x1.5 cm (not shown on diagram)
11. epidermis is torn from the right forearm (not shown on diagram)
12. fracture of the frontal bone 6x0.1 cm located 1.5 cm from the sagittal suture (showing on separate skull trauma diagram without numbers)




Literally the entire list of injuries of Rustem 'could' be attributed to..... fighting.

Please take note of this injury in particular.
7. bruises in the metacarpophalangeal joints on both hands (bruised knuckles). Similar bruises are common in hand to hand fighting






Zina

1. dark red abrasion on the right frontal eminence
2. pale gray area 3x2 cm above the right eyebrow
3. dark red abrasion on the upper eyelids
4. brown red graze on the bridge and tip of the nose
5. numerous abrasions on the left cheekbone
6. bruised skin on the right side of the face
7. brown-red abrasion on the back of both hands in the area of metacarpal phalangeal and inter-phalangeal joints
8. wound with jagged edges and missing skin on the back of the right hand at the base of the third finger
10. a long bright red bruise 29x6 cm in the lumbar region on the right side of the torso. The bruise looks like left from a baton





Again, the entire list other then #9 (frostbite) 'could' be attributed to... hand/hand combat.     bat1

Note #10 in the image is misleading. The waist injury is isolated to the right side and can not be a result of "pulling a roped sled" around the waist which would be evenly distributed to both sides and the front.
10. a long bright red bruise 29x6 cm in the lumbar region on the right side of the torso. The bruise looks like left from a baton

Also note the severity of this injury in particular and the descriptions accuracy which 'should' be an indication of the rest of the injuries description accuracy. 
8. wound with jagged edges and missing skin on the back of the right hand at the base of the third finger




Conclusion.

I dont know about you guys, but thats a whole lot of busted up heads, and knuckles with side order of blood to go around.  Again, can some of thes injuris have been caused by climbing trees, falling on rocks etc... sure, but 'what if' even ONE of them wasn't?   The who, what, when, where, and why I leave to you.

Yes I have thought along those lines as well. A lot of the injuries do look as if they could have been caused by physical contact with someone or something ie some kind of fight or defence maybe. And yet this is apparently being ruled out by the Authorities re the re opening of the Dyatlov Case.

Of course they would, they wouldn't want to get in trouble with the still existing KGB police wouldnt they? If they put that in, pretty sure there would've been a trouble from the people up there

June 19, 2020, 02:20:48 AM
Reply #80
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janeeyre2150


I think when you group the bodies up according to injuries, you find three types.  and you find the three types all generally in the same three places.  A group that mostly just died of exposure, a group that looked like they were in a fist fight, and another group that was savagely beaten and tortured and then dumped into the river.   It seems that there was some favoritism shown here.  Some were let off easy or maybe got away before it all started.  Some appeared to have escaped, the rest had the ever loving **** kicked out of them.

If I had to guess this was the work of just one or two men who couldn't keep track of everybody in the dark.  Doroshenko and Krivonischenko probably slipped away and hid in the cedar until they felt it was safe after the commotion died down.   Then they lit a fire.  They obviously had no fear of being spotted by that time.  They felt they were safe but knew they were dying.   The rest were frog marched down to the river.  Rustem Slobodin was the first to get it.  Maybe he got mouthy, maybe he tried to fight.  He got his skull cracked and was left to die.    Down at the river the beatings began, and probably got more savage over time.  At first it was just kicks to the ribs or rifle butts to the heads.  But then it degraded into eyes being gouged out and tongues being cut off.  It was already too late for most of them by that time but Dyatlov and Kolmogorova at some point fought their way out and slipped into the night.  The killer continued to work over the rest of the group while Dyatlov and Kolmogorova hid.  The killer finally finishes and leaves but seems to have no interest in finding the others which should be as easy as following the footprints in the snow.  Maybe he decided to just wait at the tent an hour or two knowing they'll all die of exposure.   All he has to do is just wait them out.   Dyatlov and Kolmogorova return to the river to find their friends dead.    By then, who knows how long they'd been out with next to no clothes on.  They try to make a shelter and stay in it for a period of time, then notice the fire Doroshenko and Krivonischenko made.   They make their way over to them and find them dead probably some number of hours after it all began.   They take some of their clothes and try to make it back to the tent.  They never make it.   

The motive never was robbery.  It was very personal.  Personal enough to want to make somebody gouge somebody's eyes out and break every bone in their body.  The natives maybe.   My money is on Yuri Yuden.           

I was hooked until the last part, "My money is on Yuri Yuden", that part made me laughed out loud! Hahaha I mean tf, homeboi cant even walk properly by the time they were almost their destination and wasnt it insinuated that he had a crush on one of the girls ( was it Lyuda?) Personally, i think he was the weakling of the group (he had severe back,leg problems) that's why i find that last part ridiculous. And let's just say that he was the killer, why would he do that? Arent most of them close friends? ....







or maybe not

June 19, 2020, 02:28:18 AM
Reply #81
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janeeyre2150


About the camera Kolevatov had.  I remember the days of old mechanical film cameras.  They were worse than cell phones, very delicate.  If you dropped it from waist height, it was junk.  I'd be interested to see how badly damaged it was.  That's why you generally wore the camera on a strap around your neck or with a wrist lanyard, so you couldn't drop it.   And in the winter you typically wore it under your jacket to keep it a little bit warmer.  The mechanism could freeze up solid, you could get condensation on the film.   Advancing the film when very cold and dry caused static discharges that would ruin the film.  If the camera was warm the view finder tended not to fog up so easy if you made the mistake of breathing on it.  You generally tried to keep it as warm as possible. 

Kolevatov was one of the better dressed of the party.  He had a jacket on and that camera likely would have been under it.  Nobody would have seen it.  You only see it in the photo from after his body was pulled out of the river and it kind of falls to the side out of his jacket.    Interesting that it's said that when he was told of the camera found on Kolevatov, that Yuri Yuden expressed surprise that it was there.   Why would that surprise him?  He wasn't there.   He didn't know what anybody had on them.    Or maybe he was there and never saw it.  That's why it came as a surprise to him.       

I think he was surprised because the camera on Kolevatov was unidentified, he never saw the said camera when he was still with the group.

June 22, 2020, 02:22:14 PM
Reply #82
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Or, those injuries are from a fight within in the group as things got desperate around the fire and some disagreement broke out. Or relating back to the decision to abandon the tent. It is interesting that Igor, Rustem and Zina were found more than 150 meters apart from each if they were going back to the tent. It's as if they went separately.

I know this is not exactly scientific but based on the watches, we could use the time they stopped as time of death +/- 30 minutes. Which would lead us to believe that Igor died first before 5:30 AM while Slobodin left for the tent ~3 hours later at which point he was weakened by his injuries and the cold and died on the way there, maybe he left with Zina and he collapsed while she continued for some time but collapsed soon after and died.


There could be many reasons why the watches stopped when they did. But you raise a good point, and worth further Investigation.
DB

June 22, 2020, 02:26:25 PM
Reply #83
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Does anybody know if the Mansi, etc. served in the military?

Well I think we can see what your getting at with that question. But I would have thought that the Mansi wouldnt have needed Military Training to survive the way that they have for generations in such an hostile environment.
DB

June 30, 2020, 11:57:42 PM
Reply #84
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Georgi




There could be many reasons why the watches stopped when they did. But you raise a good point, and worth further Investigation.

In the article about the Chivruay Pass incident they came to the conclusion that once the body freezes the watches most often stop working within 15-30 minutes. That being said they also had one watch which survived several months in the cold on one of the bodies and was still working when they found the person. If they were self winding watches it could also indicate TOD if we knew how long the battery reserve was, it could have been a few hours to a couple of days but since they mostly stopped within a couple of hours from each other I can say its more likely they ceased working once the bodies froze.

July 01, 2020, 04:45:27 AM
Reply #85
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient


There could be many reasons why the watches stopped when they did. But you raise a good point, and worth further Investigation.

In the article about the Chivruay Pass incident they came to the conclusion that once the body freezes the watches most often stop working within 15-30 minutes. That being said they also had one watch which survived several months in the cold on one of the bodies and was still working when they found the person. If they were self winding watches it could also indicate TOD if we knew how long the battery reserve was, it could have been a few hours to a couple of days but since they mostly stopped within a couple of hours from each other I can say its more likely they ceased working once the bodies froze.

Its a good one this. And this particular issue could do with further investigation. Any experts out there in watch manufacture ? ! etc.
DB

July 07, 2020, 11:09:35 PM
Reply #86
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sparrow


In my experience, wind up watches tend to run about 24 hours before they need to be rewound.  I also used to see people unconsciously wind their watches throughout the day.

July 07, 2020, 11:29:53 PM
Reply #87
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sparrow


Hello Sarapuk.

I was curious about whether the Mansi served in the military.  If we were to assume that the hikers were killed by others, why not the Mansi?  I believe most people would not know instinctively how to kill and the military would be one way to learn.  I am just trying to glean as much information as I can from others, especially when I  don't know the answer.

July 09, 2020, 01:18:48 PM
Reply #88
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Hello Sarapuk.

I was curious about whether the Mansi served in the military.  If we were to assume that the hikers were killed by others, why not the Mansi?  I believe most people would not know instinctively how to kill and the military would be one way to learn.  I am just trying to glean as much information as I can from others, especially when I  don't know the answer.

Well none of us know the answer, YET.  I have been looking at the Case Files again and it does appear that the Mansi were thoroughly Investigated by the Authorities. You know what that means.  The KGB.  So I think that the Mansi were not responsible for the demise of the Dyatlov Group.
DB