Theories Discussion > Murdered

Resistance group maybe?

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GeneralFailure:
In my country, after the communists came, many people/former WW2 soldiers went in the mountains forming anti-communist resistance groups(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_anti-communist_resistance_movement).
One event has come to my mind recently related to one resistance group, and the events are somehow similar:


--- Quote ---The death of the undercover tourists
September 2, 1950. Toma Arnăuţoiu, Petre Arnăuţoiu, Constantin Jubleanu and Ion Marinescu meet with tourists Aurel Bârsan, Băş Ghervase, Neniu Dumitru, Venter Teodor and Maria Tiron on Gălăşescu Mountain. Educate to be circumspect with any unknown, the four interogate the to the strangers until they revealed them. Tourists were undercover Security Agents. Aurel Barsan is the only one left alive.
https://www.historia.ro/sectiune/general/articol/tragica-epopee-a-lui-toma-arnautoiu-eroul-din-munti
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---On September 2, 1950, the terrorists Arnauţoiu Toma, Arnăuţoiu Petre, Marinescu Ion and Jubleanu Constantin attacked with arms a group of people on the tourist route Sîmbăta-Moldoveanu, at the point named Piscul Călăşescului, bestially murdering four people and namely: security platoon Băiş Ghervase, Neniu Petre, worker, PCR member, engineer Venţer Teodor and student Tiron Maria. After they murdered them, the terrorists robbed them of the objects they had on them, stripped them and then run, hiding at one of the hut they had in the mountains. Student Tiron Maria, being only injured, was eventually shot dead with bullets in her heart and her head. "
Secret Service Report - https://adevarul.ro/locale/constanta/militienii-eroi-aventurile-romantate-reusit-gruparea-arsenescu-arnautoiu-ucida-mai-securisti-traseu-turistic-1_5b488b76df52022f752cf567/index.html
--- End quote ---


I'm not familiar with the resistance groups in Russia in the '50's, but what if Dyatlov Group met, let's say, a group of people that was "not happy" about it's location made public/reported to the authorities and this group acted more intelligent than the Romanian resistance group from the example above, leaving no traces.

The people forming this group was trained to live in the mountains and to leave no traces in order not to be found by the authorities, that's why we have no footprints other than the tourist's footprints. Well, maybe they have missed one footprint :

They find the hikers, they cut the tent and order them to come out and to go in the cedar area (this zone was protected from the wind, so it was easier to interogate te students there). Tent cut from inside? Maybe not. A I read, the first search team made itself some cuts in the tent and I didn't find in the report anything about this... so maybe the report is wrong. Or maybe the hikers have made also some cuts in order co come out quicker.

Three hikers didn't made it until the cedar, they try to fight the members of the resistance group, they are beaten and left in the snow where they die.
The rest of the hikers are "interrogated" under the cedar : tho of them are stripped by their clothes in order for the others to say if they are secret service agents. The two stripped hikers die.
After this they applied another torture : submerging the bodies in freezing water/cutting tongue / beating. After all the hikers show no signs of life, they cover their own traces leave.

Radiations? Well, the bomb or whatever it was exploded in the area on 17 February. So the contamination could have been made after the death of the hikers.



Puchiko:
All the murder theories have the same flaws:
- No footprints. You say they were "trained to leave no trace", but that doesn't give you the ability to fly. We're talking about enough people to take down 9 young and fit athletes - it would take a small army and it seems unlikely they'd leave no trace. I'll admit the footprints are poorly documented though, so let's dig deeper.
- Zolotaryov had a notebook in his hand a camera around his neck. Why would the attackers let him have a camera with potentially incriminating evidence?
- The injuries of the Ravine 4 are massive internal trauma with no damage to soft tissue. Autopsy reports confirm this couldn't have been caused by another human.
- The group was obviously alive for a while after leaving the tent. They built a fire and presumably dug out the den. It appears that they did not die all at once and that the longest surviving took the clothing of the Yuris, who died first. Why would the attackers let them do that?
- The attackers would surely have a use for the food and equipment belonging to the group, but it was left untouched in the tent. Why?

GeneralFailure:
I will try to find some exlanation for the flaws:

1. Footprints -  I've made some research, it seems that, at least in Romania, the anticommunist resistance groups had techniques to minimize/erase the footprints in the snow:

--- Quote ---"Traveling in the snow it was done with the "hârzoabe", some braided twigs of circular shape, to not sink in the snow, and the erasure of the footprints was mandatory"
http://www.gazetademaramures.ro/images/supplement/eroii-rezistentei-anticomuniste-31.pdf
--- End quote ---
Also see the boot footprint from the above photo. How many people with guns you need to control 9 hikers?

2.Camera. If the attackers wanted to remain invisible, they obviously wanted to leave all the personal belongings of the hikers intact. Well, the film inside camera showed only black images, what this tells us? A negative becomes totally black only when exposed to light. So maybe they pulled out the film from the camera, exposed it to light, then inserted it back in the camera. Pen and notepad? It was written something on the notepad? It could be put on the hands of  Zolotaryov after he died. Why? To make the scene more realistic probably.

3.Injuries - If one man jumps on the chest of somebody, it crushes his ribs? I don't know. For sure this does not leave marks on the skin.

4. The group was alive (well almost, three were left unconscious on the way to the cedar). Probably the attackers tortured the hikers to admit that they work for the secret services, see the Romanian event from the first post. Some of the hikers had some links to the secret services, don't they? The fire wasn't made by the hikers, otherwise they would be alive. Also the "den" wasn't built for the hikers also. The branches on the snow wasn't for them also, the hikers were inside the river. So the attackers made this "blanket" of  branches for them not to freeze. The hikers were tortured inside the water. Dubinina's position looks like someone kept her with the head submerged under water... probably kicked her in her back until the ribs were broken. Tongue was cut before? The blood in her stomach shows that she was still alive when the tongue was cut, her heart was beating...

5. Nobody who wants to keep it's location secret would'n t want to leave traces of his existence. This is why they didn't take anything

Clacon:
Hi there,

Not entirely sure of ALL of the details of the event, and perhaps the following statements I make need clarification, but I got the impression the Hikers themselves were Communist supporters?? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

That doesn't rule out that they weren't out there or dispensed of, for political reasons (good point you made!) although I keep going back to something in one of the girls' diaries regarding "geology" and rocks around the are? Don't know what that was about unless one of them was studying in that area.

I'm beginning to believe that "traversing and conquering the difficult terrain to obtain certifications" was a maybe a cover for being up there. I don't know....something about Igor's vagueness and change of course makes me suspicious. But I'm a conspiracy theorist so I find everything suspicious.

I am at a loss as to how Zolotaryov's camera remained structurally intact after his ribs were broken in the area it would hang off his neck. Unless of course, there was structural damage to it and we just can't see from the photos. The evidence logging is notoriously lacking. I don't really trust anything recorded unfortunately, not even the autopsy reports.

If it was truly intact, then I would say Zolotaryov experienced that crushing force from behind OR the camera was planted. Which means theres a coverup. I don't know the cover up artists murdered the hikers. I feel like I'm going one way with a theory and then I change direction.

**** Actually just went back to look at the picture and it maybe looks like it was around his wrist which is lying right about neck area - the camera looks fairly intact but is sitting very   
        high on his neck and the angle its lying at looks like the strap is on his wrist, not around his neck - could be a clue??? What does everyone else see???

I also don't believe the 3 on the way to the cedar died on the way there. I think they were all originally at the cedar. One thing I believe for sure is that the 2 Yuri's died first and their clothing was taken by other members of the group - I don't believe they were strip searched bc then they all would have been secverely underdressed AND their clothes were found on the others - burn marks and all. It just doesn't make sense to me that anyone would feel a need to cover that up?? (the removal of clothing I mean) - its way too tedious - undressing one corpse to put their clothing on another. What for??

Some things about those three I find interesting:

Their bodies to me show the most compelling evidence of a fight (knuckles bruised, Igors bloody lip etc) - now I don't know if it was between the Hikers or they were fighting their outside attackers. Someone on the forum wisely said that the majority of those murdered know their attackers and I don't know if things were particularly kosher between all members of the group, just based on diary entries. Do I think they murdered each other...God I just can't say. Something in my gut just tells me there was a fight between them.

My next point about that group is that Igor and Zina were found so close together. He had a picture of her on him. I don't know if this is significant, other than the fact that maybe there was something between them or at least maybe that Igor was close to her to protect her OR was going after her if they had had a fight.

Any thoughts??

NkZ:
Interesting. Hard to link to radioactivity.... but:
+ we have a gulag nearby with potential escapes: still over 10 000 prisoners in 1959 (http://www.gulag.online/articles/mapa-taborovych-sprav-gulagu-a-pribehu-ze-stredni-evropy?locale=en)
+ In the case files it is said that uncle slava (ex convict) resigned from his work (Ryazhnev testimony, settlement 41 on march 6): he could have been a contact between fugitives and the outside world (they hunt or dig gold and he sells it, and buys them commodities?) ? (strangely though, uncle slava testifies on the 7th in Idvel and still has the same occupation as at the moment of facts. What is he doing in Idvel? running away?)
+ Also a mention that money was found in the snow near the cedar (Atmanaki , sheet 216) why would a hiker keep 8 rubles in a pocket, and throw it away before dying? Except if you beg your murderer to accept money for life?
+ in a online  article ( https://www.miamighostchronicles.com/stranger-than-fiction/another-disappearnce-at-dyatlov-pass )on a hiker dying from heart attack returning from the pass a few years ago, it is mentioned the recent discovery of a dead « ermit » near the pass, probably too young to be involved though. Just shows appart from Mansi a few people are at loose in these parts. Runaways becoming ermits?

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