Murdered for entering into a sacred place

[Nordlander]

NkZ, I saw an account of the Native signs somewhere but didn't write them down. From what I remember, they specified what animals had been tracked there and who had passed by when. I'll post if I come across the info again.

Another thing I wondered about was the presence of the rock formation at the bottom of the pass. The Manunpupuner Rocks are holy to the Komi, so I was thinking that perhaps this formation might have been sacred to a related tribe. The Mansi were probably truthful that the pass wasn't sacred to them, but that doesn't mean it wasn't sacred to other indigenous people. (And then we have the Khanty denying he made the comment about the "five Khanty wild men" who lived near the pass--he didn't want trouble with them after the authorities left). As per questions of who started the fire, I have speculated that it could have been the attackers, especially if we see the hikers as being marched down to this grove. (Khanty had sacred groves)


Another possible point of connection is the cut clothing. The 1933 murders involved forcing the Soviets to strip. Barenness seems to have been part of the ritual sacrifice. There were no knives found at the three murder scenes, although one investigator added Yuri K's later, perhaps as a result of pressure to make the scenes look less incoherent. The recycling of clothes was obviously for warmth, but the shreds of clothes that supposedly led the searchers to the ravine look suspicious to me.

[NkZ]

Hi Nordlander, thanks for the insights. For the mansion signs there is a mention in the group's diary about it on 30/01: "Mansi signs tell about animals they saw, resting stops and other things. It is particularly interesting to solve its meaning for the hikers as well as historians." But doesn't this look more like a phrase coming from a book rather than real capacity to decipher these signs ?
I'm amazed by the number of nations and sub-nations in the area:
Mansi, i would rule out, even if i'm 99% sure they are concealing something. Komi, they seem to have been "christened" in the 19th century.  Khanty, there's the episode and all the signs you raised. Forest Nenets seem a bit too much on the east. Nenets "Komisized", just close ... not forgetting "old believers" and who knows who!

[BottledBrunette]

I'm pretty sure I will be laughed off and I have mentioned this particular "theory" before, but, the picture of the teepee looking thing and sacred land reminds me AGAIN, of a psychic talking to the nine hikers, but, Lyudmila was the main speaker, who told the psychic that a tribe that no one knew about and spoke a language they had never heard before, attacked their tent with spears and perhaps other weapons, and beat the men up at the front of the tent, which would explain the unexplainable wounds some of the guys and the two girls have, and that the reason why they were killed is because the hikers were on land that belonged to them and they weren't welcomed there, and they made them go off to freeze to death.  I know people don't take stock in psychics, but, seriously, after reading all the theories and surmises people make, this makes the most sense.  The unexplainable reason why they left the tent, some with warmer clothes and shoes and socks than others, etc.  This thread sort of proves the story the psychic tells of why they were killed.  They were killed by an unknown tribe who didn't want people on their land.

[Monika]

I'm pretty sure I will be laughed off and I have mentioned this particular "theory" before, but, the picture of the teepee looking thing and sacred land reminds me AGAIN, of a psychic talking to the nine hikers, but, Lyudmila was the main speaker, who told the psychic that a tribe that no one knew about and spoke a language they had never heard before, attacked their tent with spears and perhaps other weapons, and beat the men up at the front of the tent, which would explain the unexplainable wounds some of the guys and the two girls have, and that the reason why they were killed is because the hikers were on land that belonged to them and they weren't welcomed there, and they made them go off to freeze to death.  I know people don't take stock in psychics, but, seriously, after reading all the theories and surmises people make, this makes the most sense.  The unexplainable reason why they left the tent, some with warmer clothes and shoes and socks than others, etc.  This thread sort of proves the story the psychic tells of why they were killed.  They were killed by an unknown tribe who didn't want people on their land.

Hello,

I believe in some people's psychic abilities. And automatic writing can be a valuable way of communicating with the dead.
However, there are many charlatans who want to impress (my experience). Therefore, I only believe in the psychic medium I know personally. All similar information gathered over the Internet is doubtful.
By the way, I have seen others people on Youtube video claiming to be psychic medium and that they psychically/spiritually connected to this event or to the dead. And one person claims that they have been attacked by UFOs, others claims that the toxic gas was released on them from the rocket. So let's choose from it! 

[BottledBrunette]

So what are you waiting for, then?  Ask your medium friend to do a session or whatever its called with the nine hikers and find out what really happened. 

[jarrfan]

I have been thinking about the murder theory. There was mention made in one of the theories that the group was murdered because the government found information the hikers may have been planning to flee the country. What makes me think this is possible is the oldest member of the group, Semyon.

Perhaps there was a secret the guys were up to and fighting about, whether they should leave with Semyon as he had planned but did not mention it to anyone until after they started out. He may have had connections to people where they were going to end up that would help them cross the border into Finland. In short, he was in on the hike at the last minute and may have brought a trail of suspicion with him.

It is 1,776 miles to the Finnish border from Ortoten so they definitely would have had to have assistance from someone.

Perhaps things went terribly wrong because his secret was known and the government thought this would be an appropriate way to deal with the hikers before they met  their contacts, not really knowing if all the hikers were planning on fleeing.

Yuri Yudin may not have been aware of it when he turned back, or maybe he turned back because he knew the plan would fail. This is all conjecture.

The diary of Lyudia expressed her depression and anxiety. The long and arduous trip with bad accommodations and food may have made Semyon want to share his secret plan with the male hikers.

They kept up the charade of the hike fearing someone might have found out about it even storing food, and they were being followed. Perhaps that was another reason they did not take the stove, the smoke would be easily detected by military.

If they were approached with lights and guns and peeked out to see that their plan was discovered, this would be a good reasonf for the small cuts in the wall of the tent and their leaving the tent.
 
With the injuries of the ravine hikers, I cannot imagine any way they could even perform digging of the dens with their deadly wounds of chest injuries, Lyuda's heart with massive hemorrhage of the right atria.

I would think these injuries would have had to been inflicted at their death site, since they would be basically in the lasts breaths of life.

Their murder would also explain the severe beating and torture as the government tried to find out who they were meeting in Ortoten and most of them did not know and were beaten so badly hoping they would give up names, which they probably didn't even know.


Perhaps the two Yuri's were left alone at the fire for a short time thinking they could warm up and ty would be able to talk their way out of it but their torturers knew they would not be able to get away so they continued the torture on the other hikers and returned to finish them off, or vice versa.


Dyatlov and the other two found appearing to be crawling toward the tent may have escaped much of the torture and tried to help their felllow hikers, even taking some clothing from the 2 Yuri's down to them to show the agents who were interrogating the ravine members they wanted to help and wanted no one to be harmed, thinking maybe they would not be and tried to convince the government people they were all innocent, which many may have been.

I don't agree with the theory of the kataballic wind in that no matter if there was this wind, it would still not be any reason for the injuries to the hikers.

I am throwing this out for review and thank you for any information to dispute this possibility... Jarrfan.

[BottledBrunette]

Wow, that is one interesting and very plausible theory.  It makes sense.  But, Lyuda was a staunch, poster child for communism, so, can't see her wanting to leave sunny Russia, so if there were going to be any defections, they sure as heck wouldn't tell her for fear of being turned in.  But, I can see your point and its very interesting, indeed.

[jarrfan]

I agree Lyuda probably did not know until the government showed up, then they were all suspect. Perhaps why she had such brutal injuries, they were trying to get her to confess and she kept saying she knew nothing about it.

This may be the answer to the 4th camera no one knew about. If you are leaving the country, maybe Semyon thought he might be able to use this camera to sell or perhaps the people he was planning on meeting in  Ortolan asked him for one? Up for grabs on that one.

[Loose}{Cannon]

This rumor started by the paranoid communist mentality of the University leaders. They instructed the search students to report back immediately if they find any evidence the DP group attempt to defect.  The issue is, there has never been any evidence... Just paranoia.  In addition, they would have had to travel some 1000 kilometers or more on foot to the Arctic ocean to be picked up by a submarine.   

The Russians stole top secret nuke information via 9 spies in the Manhattan project.  Point being, the US didn't need to risk a billion dollar submarine to extract a few collage students in 1959 regardless of their nuke knowledge.  However, the Russian people were made paranoid through communist propaganda that the US has infiltrated everything and are the boogieman and scape-goat for common state fookups.

There are people still today that think Russia is responsible for everything they don't like.... So it goes.