Elk(s) attack

[Star man]

But there were 9 hikers who had hatchets, ice axes and knives?

Now you are too much clever on me..

Im not sure what do you mean...? Explain, please.

What I am saying is that an Elk is a big animal and capable of taking out people.  But in the tent there are axes and other items that could have been used as weapons to defend themselves against an animal attack.  The axes were just left in the tent.  Even if an elk was attacking one of them, the others could have grabbed a weapon and fought back.

Regards

Star man

[Ehtnisba]

SOF Scouts are people who are selected by a specific personality and psychological profile. In most cases, these guys are unreadable introverts. But very friendly and decent/polite. On the other hand, they are people who can change their personality and aggression very quickly according the situation. They are very adaptable people. "From angel can became a killing machine".

From this description I must be a SOF scout too :))) joke aside

But why you keep referring to these " photos"   ,these are not photos but milimeters from a photo . How could a body or animal fit in 2mm of a frame. It could but would be 5 km away. We are not saying that Zolotaryov didn't make photos. Probably he did. I would too.
But you fail to understand that here you are not looking at actual photo. Let me try explain it with pictures:




This is the tiny fragment near the edge of the film you are looking at in these pictures. How could and animal ot body be visible there and why would anybody photographing something put it there out of focus and near the edge and so tiny???

[Ehtnisba]

Do you really all of you think that picture no 8) "Horn"
is just a destroyed film negative?

You really dont see there anything suspicious?

Please tell me at least somebody you see there something. (UFO, grenade, train, aircraft, building, etc, does not matter, but something)
damn!
but dont tell me that it is just a destroyed film negative without any scenario.

It is microscopic element , the guy that investigated those films used a MICROSCOPE  to find those tiny elements. So having in mind this horn is an object of 0.5 mm from the whole frame I can only imagine it is a lightening from a storm that is happening 100 km away from the photographer. But yeah only film damage is reasonable.
If we play a game of imagination I can say shark jaws,or teeth ,or bat wing ,or demon,or even batman ....

[Ehtnisba]

By the way, have you catched some similar face body parts between modern scout and Soviet 1940 scout?
.....the same shapes of nose 

probably also bodies constitutions will be similar :D 

Reincarnation?
I have similar face features with Olga of Kiev ,so what? People face types are not so many , not more than 10 in the caucasian race ...I may say this as an artist been through 1000s of faces ... So what?

[Radim]

But there were 9 hikers who had hatchets, ice axes and knives?

Now you are too much clever on me..

Im not sure what do you mean...? Explain, please.

What I am saying is that an Elk is a big animal and capable of taking out people.  But in the tent there are axes and other items that could have been used as weapons to defend themselves against an animal attack.  The axes were just left in the tent.  Even if an elk was attacking one of them, the others could have grabbed a weapon and fought back.

Regards

Star man

Hello Starman,
good point, I though about it also.

It is hard to say.. I think they jumped from tent, they probably very very scared because also of Yetti chatting before in tent.
To a certain point they probably could be very paralyzed by stress. I think that thay maybe wanted, but they were noticed by Zolotaryov to do not take.

I try to say that there probably were a very unstabile changes in fear and calm situations.

If I will meet in nature a dangerous animal (s), than I will never try to escalate a force to him or make attack on him also in critic area.. No... I will try to fight with him only in very critical situation. But, circa 500 kgs weigh animal, how you imagine you will kill him? By axe or knife? I dont think so.

Somewhere I will try to find a video, when I was attacked by wild pig in 2013. (I made a basics of my house, when the pig come from the forrest by very calm movement to me). It was just a maybe 150 kgs weigh pig. Around me were everywhere some "weapons". (shovel, pickaxe, etc..) I did not use any of it, and I didn't even think of it. It only occurred to me when the pig ran away.

The pigs behaviour was very weird.
The pig very changed his mood. Firstly it just leaned on me his feets, so I started to play with him like with dog, I take my phone and start to make a video because I though this pig was very friendly and his behaviour was uncommon.  But he became to be more and more crazy. I had to run away to pile of ravel. There it stops and pig run away.

Yes I could to hit him by shovel, but Im sure then it will be kill me because of his angry.
However Im sure, if I will carry a gun, I will start to shot him immediatelly of his agression escalation.

So are an effective weapons which can stop escalating force in a second and then are the uneffective weapons which can help you or increase the escalation force effect.

This elk(s) in our story did not have to behave since the beggining agressive. It is the animal, it is also curiously like every human. But during a 1500m of movement there could became a lot of stimulus why to make a finally attack.

[Radim]

By the way, have you catched some similar face body parts between modern scout and Soviet 1940 scout?
.....the same shapes of nose 

probably also bodies constitutions will be similar :D 

Reincarnation?
I have similar face features with Olga of Kiev ,so what? People face types are not so many , not more than 10 in the caucasian race ...I may say this as an artist been through 1000s of faces ... So what?

Ethnisba..
I just tried your attentions...

[Ehtnisba]

I do look at faces a lot and look in details. That is why my imagination could go wild about blurry images in photos. For example some people claim to see human figures in some photos, stalking the hikers. I will post them in my next post for you to see ,do you see figures in these photos?
The whole story sounds a lot probable . The only thing is what happened next... Why so many secrecies? Pilot and nurse report more than 9 bodies. Radiograms from the day the pilot reported are missing. Tent found on 24th by two searchers  but they didn't report too. Pilots of helicopters refusing to take the bodies if they are not in zinc coffins. Authorities trying to bury the hikers in Ivdel ,hundred km away from their city in order to avoid publicity. Sappers with mine detectors present in the pass while searching. Radioactivity testing ,and more and more..... All of this and nobody noticed animal hairs on Zinas pants???

[Ehtnisba]

[Star man]

I do look at faces a lot and look in details. That is why my imagination could go wild about blurry images in photos. For example some people claim to see human figures in some photos, stalking the hikers. I will post them in my next post for you to see ,do you see figures in these photos?
The whole story sounds a lot probable . The only thing is what happened next... Why so many secrecies? Pilot and nurse report more than 9 bodies. Radiograms from the day the pilot reported are missing. Tent found on 24th by two searchers  but they didn't report too. Pilots of helicopters refusing to take the bodies if they are not in zinc coffins. Authorities trying to bury the hikers in Ivdel ,hundred km away from their city in order to avoid publicity. Sappers with mine detectors present in the pass while searching. Radioactivity testing ,and more and more..... All of this and nobody noticed animal hairs on Zinas pants???

Radioactive elks???  Genetically modified by the military as assassins?

 

[Radim]

I do look at faces a lot and look in details. That is why my imagination could go wild about blurry images in photos. For example some people claim to see human figures in some photos, stalking the hikers. I will post them in my next post for you to see ,do you see figures in these photos?
The whole story sounds a lot probable . The only thing is what happened next... Why so many secrecies? Pilot and nurse report more than 9 bodies. Radiograms from the day the pilot reported are missing. Tent found on 24th by two searchers  but they didn't report too. Pilots of helicopters refusing to take the bodies if they are not in zinc coffins. Authorities trying to bury the hikers in Ivdel ,hundred km away from their city in order to avoid publicity. Sappers with mine detectors present in the pass while searching. Radioactivity testing ,and more and more..... All of this and nobody noticed animal hairs on Zinas pants???

Before I send my opinion of pictures, I will reply to your post.
How could nurse and pilot saw 9 bodies, when the dead bodies were found in 2 etages...? More than 2 moths ago.

Always if somebody makes a mistake, than he usualy triy to cover his mistake. It is normal human skill. And there were a lot of mistakes of capturing the evidence in "accident scene" I think there was the interest for explaination of their dead from the highest goverment positions. So everybody who made some mistake at this day nearby this area, tried to cover. Because of fear from Moskva. And this is in my opinion the reason of create the questions which lead to demonize and conspirations.

If military or goverment will know about just something, than Im more than sure they will send own investigators from the tip of goverment, ministry of defence or KGB, but not some local comisars with students. They will be at place as the first. Also trust me if goverment will want, than the bodies will be never found....

Pilot is just a human. Take in mind that somebody will place at his chopper a human beeings without eyes, etc. He was scared from non-secured and visual of decomposing bodies.
If somebody will want to give me in my car 4 decomposting bodies, some without eyes, then I will not want to take them in my car also. You not?
I will take them only in case of their secure. Secure them from movement, secure them from visual - anybody want to be scattered by this visual scene. Only that you would be mentally perverse.

[Radim]

At the first zoomed picture I see an SS skull which floats as a cloud. (Psychologist will be happy of me) 


at the second picture I see a big penguin.


At the third picture (after zoom) I see a small cute teddy bear with the dominant black beam.


At fourth picture I see a standing human who is watching my direction. And his position looks he is aiming on me (probably rifle). This person has a typical russia winter cap with ears covers. (ušanka)


At the fifth picture I see a face of Yetty or some KINGKONG.


I know my imagination is now suitable for conspirations.
But it means nothing...

Have you seen, I firstly did not see an ELK? 
Radim

[Ehtnisba]

I do look at faces a lot and look in details. That is why my imagination could go wild about blurry images in photos. For example some people claim to see human figures in some photos, stalking the hikers. I will post them in my next post for you to see ,do you see figures in these photos?
The whole story sounds a lot probable . The only thing is what happened next... Why so many secrecies? Pilot and nurse report more than 9 bodies. Radiograms from the day the pilot reported are missing. Tent found on 24th by two searchers  but they didn't report too. Pilots of helicopters refusing to take the bodies if they are not in zinc coffins. Authorities trying to bury the hikers in Ivdel ,hundred km away from their city in order to avoid publicity. Sappers with mine detectors present in the pass while searching. Radioactivity testing ,and more and more..... All of this and nobody noticed animal hairs on Zinas pants???

Radioactive elks???  Genetically modified by the military as assassins?

 

I knew it, aliens waking up the yeti was too simple a solution ;)

[Radim]

Ethnisba,
please could you make this picture as black and white? And add some “lens defects”?

[Radim]

Others of you can write us, where Im heading..

[Radim]

For the people who are reading this topic.. I will be glad if you also add in our disscusion.

Just please dont add any bullshits.

Thank you

[Ehtnisba]

No , i didn't ask about an elk, but exactly about humans. Where you see penguin and a teddy bear ,people are saying human figures are visible. I see what you see as a penguin ,but right side of the penguin looks like a person holding a binocal and looking right.
First - the skull is supposed to be a mansi face in bushes
The aiming guy, nobody saw him,but only the 2 figures under him who look like two people sitting on a bench.
Last one seems like ape to me too, but again they claim there is a human somewhere ,,,i fail to see it.

Yeah nobody wants decomposing bodies in his trunk, but these helicopter pilots knew they are sent there  to take the bodies,and bodies were in black bags, so no visual contact .... I am wondering how searchers were touching and moving out of the water wet decaying corpses with bare hands. There are photos of them dragging the wet corpses with hands and then uphill to the helikopter... They look bad on black and white photos ,what comes for a full color and real...
There is a pilot who on 25th February reported that he sees 2 bodies in front of the tent! And in the case files we have radiograms from the search from each day,no missing. And surprisingly only 25th is blank ???
Testing for radioactivity ? What possible mistake Ivanov - the lead investigator-  tries to cover by making such a test on the last 4 bodies?

Have you read about Korovina group? There are many similarities and alive survivor to tell the story. You can use google translate for english.
Part 1
https://m.balkans.kp.ru/daily/26858/3901230/

Part2
https://m.balkans.kp.ru/daily/26859/3901807/

Other article part1
https://m.balkans.kp.ru/daily/26948.1/4000080/

Other article part 2
https://m.balkans.kp.ru/daily/26949.7/4000642/

[Ehtnisba]

[Ehtnisba]

 I need photoshop for proper lens defects similar to Zolotarev ones, now i am using my phone only and it is not a great tool . Tomorrow may try on my laptop

[Radim]

I need photoshop for proper lens defects similar to Zolotarev ones, now i am using my phone only and it is not a great tool . Tomorrow may try on my laptop

Ethnisba,
Thank you so much for edit. This picture enoghs. You dont have to make next edit of this picture. Good job.

Is known is this film negative new? I mean if it is separate film negative contra other pictures which Zolotaryov made during expedition? I mean reloaded film negative?

(Important information for me)

[Radim]

SOF Scouts are people who are selected by a specific personality and psychological profile. In most cases, these guys are unreadable introverts. But very friendly and decent/polite. On the other hand, they are people who can change their personality and aggression very quickly according the situation. They are very adaptable people. "From angel can became a killing machine".

From this description I must be a SOF scout too :))) joke aside

But why you keep referring to these " photos"   ,these are not photos but milimeters from a photo . How could a body or animal fit in 2mm of a frame. It could but would be 5 km away. We are not saying that Zolotaryov didn't make photos. Probably he did. I would too.
But you fail to understand that here you are not looking at actual photo. Let me try explain it with pictures:




This is the tiny fragment near the edge of the film you are looking at in these pictures. How could and animal ot body be visible there and why would anybody photographing something put it there out of focus and near the edge and so tiny???

This is an answer of your points:




2012 cayman s 0 60

[Radim]

I will be open to all of you..
It is just 7 days when I started to interest in this accident, I dont have a time to read all analyzes, so it is the reason why I ask.

But Im sure by one thing:




It was just an elk(s) and this whole topic will prove it…

99

[Ehtnisba]

You should read the case files here, radiograms, witnesses, autopsies....if really have an interest. These documents will open new thoughts

[sarapuk]

I will be open to all of you..
It is just 7 days when I started to interest in this accident, I dont have a time to read all analyzes, so it is the reason why I ask.

But Im sure by one thing:




It was just an elk(s) and this whole topic will prove it…

99

If you are serious about this Dyatlov Case then you must at least go over all the main points, so check out www.dyatlovpass.com

[jarrfan]

I believe there is a possibility of an elk herd attack, not really an attack but a herd running frantic and running over the tent with the people in it. I was in a tent sleeping and we heard galloping. Thinking it was a herd of deer, we turned onto our faces in the fetal position. Did not attempt any weapons of any kind. It turned out it was a bunch of dogs that had gotten loose in the camping area and were running amuck. But, a herd of elk in the night, prompted by smells of humans, may have jumped onto the tent causing the inflicted injuries. After they knew they were gone, the hikers could only cut their way out because of the condition of the tent and their injuries. An elk jumping on someone could surely crush a skull and ribs. Perhaps Lyudia was screaming and her tongue was cut by her teeth.

In addition, the search  party said there were no foot prints around the tent, they had all been covered by snow. If those foot prints of the hikers were covered by snow, so would the foot prints of the elk be covered.

The only footprints found were 30 meters down the hill according to the search report.

[sarapuk]

I believe there is a possibility of an elk herd attack, not really an attack but a herd running frantic and running over the tent with the people in it. I was in a tent sleeping and we heard galloping. Thinking it was a herd of deer, we turned onto our faces in the fetal position. Did not attempt any weapons of any kind. It turned out it was a bunch of dogs that had gotten loose in the camping area and were running amuck. But, a herd of elk in the night, prompted by smells of humans, may have jumped onto the tent causing the inflicted injuries. After they knew they were gone, the hikers could only cut their way out because of the condition of the tent and their injuries. An elk jumping on someone could surely crush a skull and ribs. Perhaps Lyudia was screaming and her tongue was cut by her teeth.

In addition, the search  party said there were no foot prints around the tent, they had all been covered by snow. If those foot prints of the hikers were covered by snow, so would the foot prints of the elk be covered.

The only footprints found were 30 meters down the hill according to the search report.

There is No Evidence to suggest an Elk attack. The Tent Site would have shown Evidence of such an attack. The Bodies also would have shown Evidence of an Elk attack. The injuries were of such a nature to rule out  an Elk or Herd Of Elks attack.

[BottledBrunette]

Very interesting theory.  Would have never thought of that one.  And you are correct, elk could probably attack them, because deer have been known to attack people.  I think I saw a case where a woman was found dead, murder was suspected, but, a deer attack was mentioned as probable cause, because some hikers said they had been attacked for no reason by deers on the same path the woman was found dead, some were injured if I remember correctly, so you could be on to something with the elk attack. 

[LoMai612]

I m in Wyoming in the US - we have a lot of Elk and I think that this theory has a lot of strengths but when I started thinking about it, my experience was it makes more sense if it was a Moose (notoriously cranky and very dangerous if provoked!!). I started looking up elk in Yugyd Va National Park (where Dyatlov Pass is located or at least south of). What I found is what they call "elk" is actually what in North America is called a Moose. I then looked up Siberian Moose and WOW! those critters are beasts!!
I am going to think on this some more but it would not even have to be a heard of moose - just one giant pissed off moose could cause a lot of damage. I am picturing a scenario where Semyon Zolotaryov and Nikolay Thibeaux were outside of the tent to do a bathroom break and either saw or heard the Moose. They try to take a picture of it and possible that triggers it to charge them. The others in the tent hear them getting head-butted around or stomped on and cut the tent to get out quickly to help. At this point they would likely have no idea what was attacking and the shouts of pain could have caused immediate panic to escape the confines of the tent to help.
I think the injuries can all be explained by a moose attack. Either a moose using its massive head or antlers or - as they often do - use their hooves to "punch" and stomp. (I encourage anyone who has not seen a moose attack to search out a video and watch it.) Pumped with adrenaline - they are not completely aware of the cold and they see their tent gapping in ruins and a moose still right nearby or close enough it is still a threat so they try to get their badly injured selves away from danger.
Moving away slowly would be the best way to not startle or anger the moose again and to back away from the danger. It also seems like Thibeaux or even Lyudmila could have been injured enough to warrant carrying them. I think I agree with statements by others that Rustem Slobodin died first from the blow to his head as they descended the hill. I think they would have been desperately trying to reach the trees to assess extent of injuries and to hopefully start a fire while determining what to do next.
The two Yuri's could have been climbing the tree to 1) see if the moose had moved on or 2) look for any signs of Rustem. I think Zinaida and Igor reached the Cedar tree area but later went back toward tent to see if they could find Rustem or possibly make it back to the tent.
As for the four in the ravine - they were clearly trying create a survival space but I have to think how their situation played out.
Anyhow - I am feeling that MOOSE is the answer.

(Hope I am not offending anyone with the hunting pic but it is the best for showing just how massive the siberian moose are)

[sarapuk]

Highly unlikely to be Deer or Elk or Moose. There would have been more evidence found and it doesnt fit in with the types of injuries etc etc.

[LoMai612]

I disagree. The injuries are absolutely consistent with moose injuries. I’ve now spent hours reading reports of moose attacks as well as a scientific forensics paper on identifying injuries from moose in autopsy’s and they match the Dyatlov injuries perfectly. Head injury and flayed chest/broken ribs are the main injuries a person sustains when attacked by a moose. They can kick in every direction and usually knock a person down then kneel on the chest to crush ribs. There are numerous news articles, photos, and videos supporting this.
Also, moose will NOT back off. They will hold ground until the threat they perceive has left the area. Sometimes they will even pursue the threat as Survivorman guy video relates as his most intense wilderness experience.
Another detail I’ve worked out is that the distance from tent to trees is the same or very close to the distance between where they left their cache and the tent. I believe someone made the wrong call as to what direction the cache was and they went the wrong direction. This answers an important question I had about why they would have even attempted a 1500 meter hike. The answer being they couldn’t return to tent because the moose was lingering and they believed they could reach the cache. Had they not been disoriented, they would have reached the cache.
Question: I’ve seen people saying there was more moonlight than I’ve found by looking at moon chart for that date. I think moonlight was at a sliver which made orienting at night even more difficult.

[sarapuk]

I disagree. The injuries are absolutely consistent with moose injuries. I’ve now spent hours reading reports of moose attacks as well as a scientific forensics paper on identifying injuries from moose in autopsy’s and they match the Dyatlov injuries perfectly. Head injury and flayed chest/broken ribs are the main injuries a person sustains when attacked by a moose. They can kick in every direction and usually knock a person down then kneel on the chest to crush ribs. There are numerous news articles, photos, and videos supporting this.
Also, moose will NOT back off. They will hold ground until the threat they perceive has left the area. Sometimes they will even pursue the threat as Survivorman guy video relates as his most intense wilderness experience.
Another detail I’ve worked out is that the distance from tent to trees is the same or very close to the distance between where they left their cache and the tent. I believe someone made the wrong call as to what direction the cache was and they went the wrong direction. This answers an important question I had about why they would have even attempted a 1500 meter hike. The answer being they couldn’t return to tent because the moose was lingering and they believed they could reach the cache. Had they not been disoriented, they would have reached the cache.
Question: I’ve seen people saying there was more moonlight than I’ve found by looking at moon chart for that date. I think moonlight was at a sliver which made orienting at night even more difficult.

First of all there is no evidence on the Tent or in the Tent or near the Tent to suggest that such an animal was involved.  Secondly there is nothing going down to the Forest that suggests that such an animal was involved.  Thirdly at the Fire near the Cedar Tree there is no evidence to suggest that such an animal was involved. Fourthly at the so called Den area the injuries do not show that such an animal caused them. If such an animal was involved we would expect to see much more damage and damage to outer skin etc etc.