January 18, 2020, 06:40:28 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Exploring The Yeti Theory  (Read 9034 times)

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December 24, 2019, 12:31:38 PM
Reply #390
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sarapuk

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Geez...  when I was 13, I was hit by a car and my head went through the windshield. Not a single scratch on my head other then a goose egg and a headache.  I was hit by a car a second time.... chattered my ankle in dozens of pieces..... not a scratch.

You were very lucky then. Usually there would be damage to skin etc.
DB

December 24, 2019, 12:34:26 PM
Reply #391
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sarapuk

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Geez...  when I was 13, I was hit by a car and my head went through the windshield. Not a single scratch on my head other then a goose egg and a headache.  I was hit by a car a second time.... chattered my ankle in dozens of pieces..... not a scratch.

Yeah as I said it is a difficult one.  With the clothes it is possible that they could have prevented the soft tissue damage.

Regards

Star man

Well apart from one being VERY LUCKY, I would say that most falls or collisions will result in some skin damage etc even with clothing protection.
DB

December 27, 2019, 12:35:15 PM
Reply #392
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Per Inge Oestmoen



Why not just make them all disappear, including the tent and all their gear?  That would leave zero evidence and just one big mystery about their disappearance?  It's much cleaner and easier and far more logical.

Another possibility is if they had seen something why not make them sign non disclosure documents, in the ame way the pathologists were required to sign non disclosure documents?

One other question Lyuda left set of ribs have 6 fractures all in a single line.  How was this pattern of fractures created so linearly?



1. Why not make them all disappear?

- Because then it would have been rather obvious that it was murder. The public, their relatives and friends would have understood that nine resourceful humans do not spontaneously disappear with no trace, and they would quite correctly assumed that a killing mission had taken place. That could have created public unrest. To avoid that, it is far more logical to arrange an "accident." Secret police forces all over the worid arrange "suicides", "accidents" and "natural deaths," in particular when the security of state is at stake. Think about the famous Giorgi Markov case. Only the fact that Markov managed to tell of a man running from him after he felt a sharp pain in his thigh prevented the murder to be written off as a "natural death."

2. Why not make them sign non disclosure documents?

- These nine students were bright people. They were young, and they would understand what they observed and be able to tell others in great detail. That made them potentially dangerous. Even if there were no reason to doubt their loyalty to the Soviet state there would always be a risk that one or several of them would tell some spouse, friend or relative what they saw back in 1959. That could be considered too much of a risk to take.

3. One other question Lyuda left set of ribs have 6 fractures all in a single line.  How was this pattern of fractures created so linearly?

- There is no way to tell exactly how it happened, but a likely scenario is that Dubinina was pressed in a standing position against a tree or held by one member of the killing squad while another one dealt the lethal blows with elbows or perhaps a rifle butt. Since Lyuda's body was firmly fixated in one position, the resulting damage also showed a linear pattern if the blows were delivered from the same angle which is likely during such an attack.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 12:40:13 PM by Per Inge Oestmoen »

December 28, 2019, 01:11:48 PM
Reply #393
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sarapuk

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Why not just make them all disappear, including the tent and all their gear?  That would leave zero evidence and just one big mystery about their disappearance?  It's much cleaner and easier and far more logical.

Another possibility is if they had seen something why not make them sign non disclosure documents, in the ame way the pathologists were required to sign non disclosure documents?

One other question Lyuda left set of ribs have 6 fractures all in a single line.  How was this pattern of fractures created so linearly?



1. Why not make them all disappear?

- Because then it would have been rather obvious that it was murder. The public, their relatives and friends would have understood that nine resourceful humans do not spontaneously disappear with no trace, and they would quite correctly assumed that a killing mission had taken place. That could have created public unrest. To avoid that, it is far more logical to arrange an "accident." Secret police forces all over the worid arrange "suicides", "accidents" and "natural deaths," in particular when the security of state is at stake. Think about the famous Giorgi Markov case. Only the fact that Markov managed to tell of a man running from him after he felt a sharp pain in his thigh prevented the murder to be written off as a "natural death."

2. Why not make them sign non disclosure documents?

- These nine students were bright people. They were young, and they would understand what they observed and be able to tell others in great detail. That made them potentially dangerous. Even if there were no reason to doubt their loyalty to the Soviet state there would always be a risk that one or several of them would tell some spouse, friend or relative what they saw back in 1959. That could be considered too much of a risk to take.

3. One other question Lyuda left set of ribs have 6 fractures all in a single line.  How was this pattern of fractures created so linearly?

- There is no way to tell exactly how it happened, but a likely scenario is that Dubinina was pressed in a standing position against a tree or held by one member of the killing squad while another one dealt the lethal blows with elbows or perhaps a rifle butt. Since Lyuda's body was firmly fixated in one position, the resulting damage also showed a linear pattern if the blows were delivered from the same angle which is likely during such an attack.


But if some one wanted to make it look like an accident then why not do something more simple. There are many ways potential murderers could have made it look more like an accident.  Also you can not explain the missing tongue or extraordinary movement of one of the toughest bones in the Human Body.
DB

December 28, 2019, 05:07:21 PM
Reply #394
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Why not just make them all disappear, including the tent and all their gear?  That would leave zero evidence and just one big mystery about their disappearance?  It's much cleaner and easier and far more logical.

Another possibility is if they had seen something why not make them sign non disclosure documents, in the ame way the pathologists were required to sign non disclosure documents?

One other question Lyuda left set of ribs have 6 fractures all in a single line.  How was this pattern of fractures created so linearly?



1. Why not make them all disappear?

- Because then it would have been rather obvious that it was murder. The public, their relatives and friends would have understood that nine resourceful humans do not spontaneously disappear with no trace, and they would quite correctly assumed that a killing mission had taken place. That could have created public unrest. To avoid that, it is far more logical to arrange an "accident." Secret police forces all over the worid arrange "suicides", "accidents" and "natural deaths," in particular when the security of state is at stake. Think about the famous Giorgi Markov case. Only the fact that Markov managed to tell of a man running from him after he felt a sharp pain in his thigh prevented the murder to be written off as a "natural death."

2. Why not make them sign non disclosure documents?

- These nine students were bright people. They were young, and they would understand what they observed and be able to tell others in great detail. That made them potentially dangerous. Even if there were no reason to doubt their loyalty to the Soviet state there would always be a risk that one or several of them would tell some spouse, friend or relative what they saw back in 1959. That could be considered too much of a risk to take.

3. One other question Lyuda left set of ribs have 6 fractures all in a single line.  How was this pattern of fractures created so linearly?

- There is no way to tell exactly how it happened, but a likely scenario is that Dubinina was pressed in a standing position against a tree or held by one member of the killing squad while another one dealt the lethal blows with elbows or perhaps a rifle butt. Since Lyuda's body was firmly fixated in one position, the resulting damage also showed a linear pattern if the blows were delivered from the same angle which is likely during such an attack.

Why would you associate disappearing in a very harsh environment as murder?  People disappear in such environments all the time .  They could have fallen into a crevasse and their bodies covered with snow? 

Are there examples of straight line multiple rib fractures and flail chest that you could put forward to substantiate your claim that these injuries are consistent with hand to hand combat?  My own analysis suggests that these injuries could not have been caused in that way.  At least not by a human. 

Also the shape of Thibo’s depressed fracture is identical in shape and proportions to the ball of a thumb.  I would expect a rifle butt to be flatter on one side.  Again are there examples to substantiate that a blow from a rifle butt can result in such a shape on the skull?

One other question.  Why do you think it was human rather than a Yeti?

Regards
Star man

January 02, 2020, 05:00:57 PM
Reply #395
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Star man

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Going back to the injuries and whether they could have been a result of a fall down a steep slope.  There are a couple of questions that come to mind:

1.  Were Lyuda's chest injuries a result of a single large impact or two separate impacts?
2. Is it a coincidence that the two people with significant chest injuries also both had missing eyes?

I think for 1 two impacts seem more likely but if this were the case would the first impact not absorb most of the energy of the fall which then leaves the question where did the energy come from for the second impact?  A second fall or continued fall?

For 2 it just seems unlikely to be a coincidence.  It's not impossible just less likely. 

Regards

Star man

January 03, 2020, 11:00:44 AM
Reply #396
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sarapuk

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Going back to the injuries and whether they could have been a result of a fall down a steep slope.  There are a couple of questions that come to mind:

1.  Were Lyuda's chest injuries a result of a single large impact or two separate impacts?
2. Is it a coincidence that the two people with significant chest injuries also both had missing eyes?

I think for 1 two impacts seem more likely but if this were the case would the first impact not absorb most of the energy of the fall which then leaves the question where did the energy come from for the second impact?  A second fall or continued fall?

For 2 it just seems unlikely to be a coincidence.  It's not impossible just less likely. 

Regards

Star man

Some of the injuries are similar to the infamous so called CATTLE MUTILATIONS that have occurred around the World at various times
DB

January 03, 2020, 04:44:14 PM
Reply #397
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Going back to the injuries and whether they could have been a result of a fall down a steep slope.  There are a couple of questions that come to mind:

1.  Were Lyuda's chest injuries a result of a single large impact or two separate impacts?
2. Is it a coincidence that the two people with significant chest injuries also both had missing eyes?

I think for 1 two impacts seem more likely but if this were the case would the first impact not absorb most of the energy of the fall which then leaves the question where did the energy come from for the second impact?  A second fall or continued fall?

For 2 it just seems unlikely to be a coincidence.  It's not impossible just less likely. 

Regards

Star man

Some of the injuries are similar to the infamous so called CATTLE MUTILATIONS that have occurred around the World at various times

I guess they are.  It's strange that there is a narrative that supports an attack by some "thing" .  I would still like to understand why Yuri D climbed the cedar given the state of his hands and feet.  Were his hands and feet in a poor state by the time he got to the cedar, or were they in a better condition, and became severely frost bitten while he was at the cedar trying to start a fire?  Did he climb the tree to collect fire wood and then later developed frost bite because it took a long time to build the fire?  How long did it take them to get to the cedar from the tent?  Answering these questions might help to understand whether Yuri D and Krivo and possibly the others climbed the tree to escape some kind of threat?

Regards

Star man

January 06, 2020, 11:43:34 PM
Reply #398
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Star man

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Another consideration for a fall down a incline.  What are the chances of Lyuda and Semyon falling together and both sustaining very similar injuries?  If Semyon was helping Lyuda or they were both helping Thibo then maybe it is possible that they fell at the same time, but to then both receive flail chest!  Again if they fell from the same place, the same height onto the same rocks then maybe.  Thibo’s head injury is different so is it possible that he fell at a different place?  Kolevatov helps Thibo, Semyon helps Lyuda.  Semyon and Lyuda fall together.  Kolevatov and Thibo don’t fall down the slope? 

Still needs more thought,

Regards
Star man

January 07, 2020, 11:23:27 AM
Reply #399
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Going back to the injuries and whether they could have been a result of a fall down a steep slope.  There are a couple of questions that come to mind:

1.  Were Lyuda's chest injuries a result of a single large impact or two separate impacts?
2. Is it a coincidence that the two people with significant chest injuries also both had missing eyes?

I think for 1 two impacts seem more likely but if this were the case would the first impact not absorb most of the energy of the fall which then leaves the question where did the energy come from for the second impact?  A second fall or continued fall?

For 2 it just seems unlikely to be a coincidence.  It's not impossible just less likely. 

Regards

Star man

Some of the injuries are similar to the infamous so called CATTLE MUTILATIONS that have occurred around the World at various times

I guess they are.  It's strange that there is a narrative that supports an attack by some "thing" .  I would still like to understand why Yuri D climbed the cedar given the state of his hands and feet.  Were his hands and feet in a poor state by the time he got to the cedar, or were they in a better condition, and became severely frost bitten while he was at the cedar trying to start a fire?  Did he climb the tree to collect fire wood and then later developed frost bite because it took a long time to build the fire?  How long did it take them to get to the cedar from the tent?  Answering these questions might help to understand whether Yuri D and Krivo and possibly the others climbed the tree to escape some kind of threat?

Regards

Star man

I like your use of the word THING. THING is exactly what we may be up against  !  ?  The Soviet Authorities had to use other words. And this THING behaved in a way that we can not comprehend and that may in turn explain a lot about this Dyatlov Mystery.
DB

January 11, 2020, 04:28:58 PM
Reply #400
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
A question about the sheet that was used in the tent:

In the Sharavin interview he describes a sheet being in place at the entrance to the tent.  Extract is below:

K: And the sheet that hung at the entrance? Could you see it?

MSh: Yes there was, it looks like there was. Maybe that's why they didn't try to go out through the entrance. On one side of the entrance there was a stove, there was something else they had there. Then it [the sheet] was hung up and it was necessary to leave the tent very quickly. I have such an opinion, to the question why they left the tent so urgently, there can be only one answer: life threatening factors, most likely poisoning. They could not breathe. If there was a movement of snow, they would not have run like that. At night they don’t see how much snow is moving, but the slide stopped. The tent was not demolished. After all, it didn’t grind everyone head over heels with the tent. I think that these were factors related to the unknown and the inability to continue to be here. Couldn't breathe! And the poisoning is such that they felt it. That's why they ran.


I thought the sheet was used to make a partition in the tent for the girls?  So what was it doing at the entrance to the tent?  Keeping the draft out?

Regards
Star man

January 11, 2020, 06:10:44 PM
Reply #401
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jarrfan


It is possible there were 2 sheets, but will have to check. I remember the partition sheet to separate the girls. it is possible there was a sheet to avert cold wind coming into the entrance since it was buttoned and there could have been drafts.

Another person described the entrance as buttoned closed. This does not make any sense unless the group were convinced they were being asked to come out for just a moment of interrogation.

As far as the footprints, a force could have been standing farther from the group as they were commanded to walk down to the tree line which they accommodated and walked in unison trying to figure out the next step to stay alive.

It is possible they were tortured with fire but it is also possible they were separated and interrogated with the "force" going back and forth to check each person's answers. There was said to be pieces of flesh on the tree bark and the hands of the 2 Yuri's were macerated. They definitely climbed the tree as noted by the cut branches, but still no purpose for that has been established.

There was discussion about poisoning to get them out of the tent. I wonder if it is possible the 3 small cuts were actually from outside the tent and the one seamstress was just making her personal guess. I could guess someone forced a substance, maybe powdered mushrooms or possibly LSD into the tent either by the Mansi which was suggested also, or by the KGB. The CIA used LSD on their own agents in the 1950s, so it is possible the Russians did too.

Keep thinking...

January 12, 2020, 04:09:24 PM
Reply #402
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Star man

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It is possible there were 2 sheets, but will have to check. I remember the partition sheet to separate the girls. it is possible there was a sheet to avert cold wind coming into the entrance since it was buttoned and there could have been drafts.

Another person described the entrance as buttoned closed. This does not make any sense unless the group were convinced they were being asked to come out for just a moment of interrogation.

As far as the footprints, a force could have been standing farther from the group as they were commanded to walk down to the tree line which they accommodated and walked in unison trying to figure out the next step to stay alive.

It is possible they were tortured with fire but it is also possible they were separated and interrogated with the "force" going back and forth to check each person's answers. There was said to be pieces of flesh on the tree bark and the hands of the 2 Yuri's were macerated. They definitely climbed the tree as noted by the cut branches, but still no purpose for that has been established.

There was discussion about poisoning to get them out of the tent. I wonder if it is possible the 3 small cuts were actually from outside the tent and the one seamstress was just making her personal guess. I could guess someone forced a substance, maybe powdered mushrooms or possibly LSD into the tent either by the Mansi which was suggested also, or by the KGB. The CIA used LSD on their own agents in the 1950s, so it is possible the Russians did too.

Keep thinking...

It is possible that it was genuinely used to keep the cold out of the tent.  It's interesting though when you consider the scene.  I can't be sure but it does appear that the three cuts were made from inside, and then the holes were made bigger by grabbing the cuts and pulling, tearing the tent.  There is a suppose to be a hole in the tent with one of Dyatlov's jackets stuffed into it.  The blankets are layed out and not crumpled.  Thibo and Semyon were better dressed and had shoes on.  Semyon had his camera around his neck.  Rusted managed to put on one boot but not the other, which I assume was left in the tent (7 Valenki).  They took matches, a flashlight, knives or at least one or more pen knives.  Another jacket was found about 10 metres from the tent.  They definitely left in a hurry and they didn't stop to finish dressing.

Regards

Star man