Zolotaryov's role

[bertie]

Many have remarked on the oddity of Zolotaryov's presence in the group and the possibilty that he was a secret agent by profession.

I have no problem seeing his involvement as just another weird circumstance having no particular bearing on the matter, except... what if his sole job was to ensure a group of random campers were at a certain location at a certain time?! Certainly his haste on the expedition has been noted from diaries.

From my reading of the political circumstnces of 1959, I see it as an almost certain bet that Russia were coninuing testing in breach of the nuclear test ban which they had pushed for. How else were they going to catch up with America in capability? Naturally, they would have to relocate their test sites to do so and testing of high yield devices would be out of the question.

Is it so far-fetched that Russia would seek to understand the killing capacity of low-yield devices by testing in a new test location over the Urals, well away from prying foreign eyes?

In this scenario, once the campers were in place, Zolotaryov would have realised the situation as  soon as the first explosion occurred and would have likely understood he was a dead man if he didnt seek shelter.  In any case an explosion would explain why they all left the tent in a hurry. In the darkness they potentially became separated but what if, and here's the kicker, the group that ended in the ravine turned out to be the unluckiest ones when the walls of the ravine acted to concentrate a subsequent blast? The dead group in the ravine would be unable to yell their location to the surviving group who resorted to climbing the largest tree as a lookout in the hope of spotting their comrades. 

Zolotaryov was found with notebook in hand and the Colonel who discovered his body seemed genuinely disgusted that he had written nothing down. Perhaps his emotions, knowing he had suffered radiation exposure had sapped his will to obey his task.

The complete control over the case from highest levels would simply reflect gathering of evidence to conclude the objectives of the test.

This seems to me to pass the Occams Razor test.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Notebook was in his pocket, and so was his hand. 

[bertie]

Notebook was in his pocket, and so was his hand.

I bow to superior knowledge and thank you most kindly for clarifying.

While I am here, permit me to pose a question.  I gather from reading all the interviews with the medical community that the 'floating lights' in the sky were widely accepted as a fact of life in Invel AND were also assumed to be military tests involving rockets AND were assumed to be associated with periodic spikes in radiation in the region.

My question is whether there has been any informed speculation as to the specific nature of these tests?

If my wild theory (outlined in the first post above) were to be taken seriously, I guess another variant could be that the weapon was supposed to deploy at higher altitude presuming the interest was in radiation coverage and survivability (easier to cover up the effects by subsequent hypothermia) rather than direct blast effects.

A further modification is that, regardless of what glorious role might have been promised to Zolotaryov, being a WWII ex-soldier perhaps he had a 'moment of clarity' (and self-preservation) when he saw a distant floating light and informed the group they were actually all likely to die if they didnt seek shelter.  That would get them out of the tent, yes?

[sarapuk]

Notebook was in his pocket, and so was his hand.

I bow to superior knowledge and thank you most kindly for clarifying.

While I am here, permit me to pose a question.  I gather from reading all the interviews with the medical community that the 'floating lights' in the sky were widely accepted as a fact of life in Invel AND were also assumed to be military tests involving rockets AND were assumed to be associated with periodic spikes in radiation in the region.

My question is whether there has been any informed speculation as to the specific nature of these tests?

If my wild theory (outlined in the first post above) were to be taken seriously, I guess another variant could be that the weapon was supposed to deploy at higher altitude presuming the interest was in radiation coverage and survivability (easier to cover up the effects by subsequent hypothermia) rather than direct blast effects.

A further modification is that, regardless of what glorious role might have been promised to Zolotaryov, being a WWII ex-soldier perhaps he had a 'moment of clarity' (and self-preservation) when he saw a distant floating light and informed the group they were actually all likely to die if they didnt seek shelter.  That would get them out of the tent, yes?

Well the old saying is that ASSUMPTIONS can be dangerous. There are many Theories as to what the lights in the Sky could be.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Lights in the sky around this time is just me.....  In the future, I go back to the future trying to observe what happened.   

[bertie]

Lights in the sky around this time is just me.....  In the future, I go back to the future trying to observe what happened.   

Love it!! Thats all cleared up then :-)

Seriously though, the medical staff interviews really make interesting reading dont they!  The receiving nurses appear to have been under the impression that the group had been killed in a blast. One nurse remarked on how filthy they all were for people who had been found out in the snow. Its certainly is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

[Star man]

Lights in the sky around this time is just me.....  In the future, I go back to the future trying to observe what happened.   

Love it!! Thats all cleared up then :-)

Seriously though, the medical staff interviews really make interesting reading dont they!  The receiving nurses appear to have been under the impression that the group had been killed in a blast. One nurse remarked on how filthy they all were for people who had been found out in the snow. Its certainly is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

Medical staff interviews - must have missed these.  Are they on this site?

Regards
Star man

[bertie]

Yep the interviews are all on the 'modern' records page.
Someone did an amazing job with translation.
The thing is though, all these interviews seem to be under the same link so you have to clicking 'next' to move to the next interview. There are quite a few of them, nurses and doctors.
Cheers

[Star man]

Yep the interviews are all on the 'modern' records page.
Someone did an amazing job with translation.
The thing is though, all these interviews seem to be under the same link so you have to clicking 'next' to move to the next interview. There are quite a few of them, nurses and doctors.
Cheers

Ok thanks

Star man

[bertie]

Yep the interviews are all on the 'modern' records page.
Someone did an amazing job with translation.
The thing is though, all these interviews seem to be under the same link so you have to clicking 'next' to move to the next interview. There are quite a few of them, nurses and doctors.
Cheers

Ok thanks

Star man

My apologies, thats not where they are, I will find them again and let u know!
Edit: OK they are linked from the homepage of the website (from which this forum is just a part), its actually the last article linked 'How many bodies brought to Idvel...'
Keep clicking next to move through the interviews.

[Star man]

Yep the interviews are all on the 'modern' records page.
Someone did an amazing job with translation.
The thing is though, all these interviews seem to be under the same link so you have to clicking 'next' to move to the next interview. There are quite a few of them, nurses and doctors.
Cheers

Ok thanks

Star man

My apologies, thats not where they are, I will find them again and let u know!
Edit: OK they are linked from the homepage of the website (from which this forum is just a part), its actually the last article linked 'How many bodies brought to Idvel...'
Keep clicking next to move through the interviews.

Ok thanks again
Star man

[Loose}{Cannon]

https://dyatlovpass.com/interview-solter?rbid=18461

[Loose}{Cannon]

There is some good reading there...  right off the bat on the first page.

VK: Allow me? The fact is that according to Matveeva's book the autopsy was done in Ivdel. She says that the autopsy was not done in Ivdel. It was a preliminary preparation for them, probably for an autopsy ... And the autopsy was done somewhere else, it was not known where. Or maybe in the city hospital ...
PI: No, they did not do it in the city. They were sent to Sverdlovsk by airplanes.
VK: No, it wasn't in Sverdlovsk, according to the book that they did it in Ivdel.
PI: We washed them here ...

This is consistent to having read they washed them with some type of alcohol.... They brought in a 55 gal drum to do it.  From what I recall, one of these nurses stated it had a strange color reaction with the clothing and bodies. An article I have on file somewhere suggests this was a reaction with the methanol they were exposed to.

[Star man]

Thanks I’ll have a look into these

Regards
Star man

[Loose}{Cannon]

Thanks I’ll have a look into these

Regards
Star man

Its a mess.....   just a heads up.   

[Star man]

There is some good reading there...  right off the bat on the first page.

VK: Allow me? The fact is that according to Matveeva's book the autopsy was done in Ivdel. She says that the autopsy was not done in Ivdel. It was a preliminary preparation for them, probably for an autopsy ... And the autopsy was done somewhere else, it was not known where. Or maybe in the city hospital ...
PI: No, they did not do it in the city. They were sent to Sverdlovsk by airplanes.
VK: No, it wasn't in Sverdlovsk, according to the book that they did it in Ivdel.
PI: We washed them here ...

This is consistent to having read they washed them with some type of alcohol.... They brought in a 55 gal drum to do it.  From what I recall, one of these nurses stated it had a strange color reaction with the clothing and bodies. An article I have on file somewhere suggests this was a reaction with the methanol they were exposed to.

Is it "normal". To wash the corpses with alcohol before an autopsy?  Sounds strange to me?  We're they decontaminating the bodies to remove radiation before the autopsy?  Weird.

Regards

Star man

[bertie]

/\
I reckon that if it was normal they wouldnt have needed to bring in solvent specially for this.
Also, I wonder why they would need to bring in a drum of ethanol since surely they would already have ethanol on hand and in more convenient quantities.
Its like the bodies had first been treated with something else, which then needed to be washed away with a special solvent.
And if there was a colour reaction then that doesnt sound like something which ethanol would achieve other than by extracting a coloured compound into solution (Im no expert but I did train and work as an industrial chemist).

[Star man]

/\
I reckon that if it was normal they wouldnt have needed to bring in solvent specially for this.
Also, I wonder why they would need to bring in a drum of ethanol since surely they would already have ethanol on hand and in more convenient quantities.
Its like the bodies had first been treated with something else, which then needed to be washed away with a special solvent.
And if there was a colour reaction then that doesnt sound like something which ethanol would achieve other than by extracting a coloured compound into solution (Im no expert but I did train and work as an industrial chemist).

Sounds weird washing with. Solvent?  Would that be the sort of thing used to remove radiation?  If not do you know what chemicals they would use?

Regards

Star man

[Loose}{Cannon]

The article was based on the methanol poisoning theory if that helps.   They had small mobile oil drilling outfits that had methanol delivered via helicopters. They used it to keep the drill hole from freezing up in winter.  Methanol much like alcohol when mixed with water drastically lowers it's freezing point.  The same helicopter unit that transported the methanol in nets, were the ones that were used in the search activities. There were interviews with some pilots from this unit that stated they were to drop their cargo in emergencies. For instance, if they could not find their drop location in bad weather, they would cut the cargo loose because they didn't have the fuel to carry it back.  Takes much less fuel to travel without the hanging load.

[bertie]

/\
Very interesting! Ive followed this subject on and off for 12 years and hadnt ever come across that info, thanks.

To StarMan's point, I dont think anyone has suggested that ethanol, or any other solvent for that matter, would be any better than plain water in washing away radioactive dust. Rather, the point seems to be (as you have already noted) that there were apparent anomalies in the way the bodies were being processed. It makes me wonder if this could simply have been from an 'abundance of caution' to hide 'something'.  As usual, questions and no answers...

[Loose}{Cannon]

This isn't the same article that had much more information, but this link lays out the general theory. 

https://jkl-jkl.livejournal.com/963263.html

I find methanol soaked clothing as a very possible reason why the clothing/legs were burned, and the fire short lived.   Could you imagine having to start a fire to survive knowing or not knowing your clothing is soaked with a highly flammable substance?   

[Star man]

So does that mean they used the methanol to clean the bodies as it available.  But why not use good old fashioned soap and water to clean the bodies?  It sounds to me that they were trying to wash off any radiation prior to the autopsy, which would make sense.

Regards

Star man

[Loose}{Cannon]

No...  Methanol in this theory was what the toxin was, the cleaner in form of a 55gal drum if I recall was another type of alcohol.  One assertion that was made is that this explains the discoloration of the skin.... Which I don't subscribe to being factual in the first place. 

[Loose}{Cannon]

Found it.... Read all pages of this.  http://gipotezi.ru/sekretnye-materialy/katastrofa-u-gory-holatchahl

[Star man]

No...  Methanol in this theory was what the toxin was, the cleaner in form of a 55gal drum if I recall was another type of alcohol.  One assertion that was made is that this explains the discoloration of the skin.... Which I don't subscribe to being factual in the first place.

Ok I see.  I suppose washing in alcohol may affect the pigments in the skin.  Still weird to wash in alcohol.

Regards

Star man

[Star man]

Found it.... Read all pages of this.  http://gipotezi.ru/sekretnye-materialy/katastrofa-u-gory-holatchahl/6

Ok thanks will have a look when I get a chance

Regards

Star man

[Loose}{Cannon]

Be sure to start on page 1.....  I linked to page 6 earlier.   http://gipotezi.ru/sekretnye-materialy/katastrofa-u-gory-holatchahl

[mk]

There is some good reading there...  right off the bat on the first page.

VK: Allow me? The fact is that according to Matveeva's book the autopsy was done in Ivdel. She says that the autopsy was not done in Ivdel. It was a preliminary preparation for them, probably for an autopsy ... And the autopsy was done somewhere else, it was not known where. Or maybe in the city hospital ...
PI: No, they did not do it in the city. They were sent to Sverdlovsk by airplanes.
VK: No, it wasn't in Sverdlovsk, according to the book that they did it in Ivdel.
PI: We washed them here ...

This is consistent to having read they washed them with some type of alcohol.... They brought in a 55 gal drum to do it.  From what I recall, one of these nurses stated it had a strange color reaction with the clothing and bodies. An article I have on file somewhere suggests this was a reaction with the methanol they were exposed to.

I guess it could be consistent with having been washed in alcohol, but I get the impression that the former nurse is simply talking about washing the bodies in preparation for burial.  She mentions that they were all very dirty, and that new clothes had to be bought for them.  And she seems to have the idea that the bodies were washed, dressed in fresh clothing, and then put directly into the coffins.  She seems a bit confused by the questions about autopsies.

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

A further modification is that, regardless of what glorious role might have been promised to Zolotaryov, being a WWII ex-soldier perhaps he had a 'moment of clarity' (and self-preservation) when he saw a distant floating light and informed the group they were actually all likely to die if they didnt seek shelter.  That would get them out of the tent, yes?

That scenario does not explain the injuries, which tell the tale: The nine students were attacked by determined assailants who forced them out of the tent. Things did however not go exactly to plan. Even if the killers had ensured that their nine victims left the tent without proper clothing, they did not die soon from exposure since the temperature was not sufficiently low. These students were skilled mountaineers, and tried to survive. The attacking squad were on a mission, quite possibly with a helicopter in wait. Therefore, the attacking squad had to hunt their victims down. Hence the injuries that all are consistent with human attack and only human attack.

There are no indications that Zolotaryov had any sinister role in the event, and there is no indication that any of these students were anything else than loyal Soviet citizens.

However, they were all bright people who could understand what they observed, and if they observed something - some kind of activity - in the Urals which they were not supposed to know about they would be a potential threat to the security of the state.

To eliminate a potential threat to the state, the staging of an "accident" is a well known method.