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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Exploring The Yeti Theory  (Read 16471 times)

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December 24, 2019, 12:31:38 PM
Reply #390
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sarapuk

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Geez...  when I was 13, I was hit by a car and my head went through the windshield. Not a single scratch on my head other then a goose egg and a headache.  I was hit by a car a second time.... chattered my ankle in dozens of pieces..... not a scratch.

You were very lucky then. Usually there would be damage to skin etc.
DB

December 24, 2019, 12:34:26 PM
Reply #391
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sarapuk

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Geez...  when I was 13, I was hit by a car and my head went through the windshield. Not a single scratch on my head other then a goose egg and a headache.  I was hit by a car a second time.... chattered my ankle in dozens of pieces..... not a scratch.

Yeah as I said it is a difficult one.  With the clothes it is possible that they could have prevented the soft tissue damage.

Regards

Star man

Well apart from one being VERY LUCKY, I would say that most falls or collisions will result in some skin damage etc even with clothing protection.
DB

December 27, 2019, 12:35:15 PM
Reply #392
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Per Inge Oestmoen



Why not just make them all disappear, including the tent and all their gear?  That would leave zero evidence and just one big mystery about their disappearance?  It's much cleaner and easier and far more logical.

Another possibility is if they had seen something why not make them sign non disclosure documents, in the ame way the pathologists were required to sign non disclosure documents?

One other question Lyuda left set of ribs have 6 fractures all in a single line.  How was this pattern of fractures created so linearly?



1. Why not make them all disappear?

- Because then it would have been rather obvious that it was murder. The public, their relatives and friends would have understood that nine resourceful humans do not spontaneously disappear with no trace, and they would quite correctly assumed that a killing mission had taken place. That could have created public unrest. To avoid that, it is far more logical to arrange an "accident." Secret police forces all over the worid arrange "suicides", "accidents" and "natural deaths," in particular when the security of state is at stake. Think about the famous Giorgi Markov case. Only the fact that Markov managed to tell of a man running from him after he felt a sharp pain in his thigh prevented the murder to be written off as a "natural death."

2. Why not make them sign non disclosure documents?

- These nine students were bright people. They were young, and they would understand what they observed and be able to tell others in great detail. That made them potentially dangerous. Even if there were no reason to doubt their loyalty to the Soviet state there would always be a risk that one or several of them would tell some spouse, friend or relative what they saw back in 1959. That could be considered too much of a risk to take.

3. One other question Lyuda left set of ribs have 6 fractures all in a single line.  How was this pattern of fractures created so linearly?

- There is no way to tell exactly how it happened, but a likely scenario is that Dubinina was pressed in a standing position against a tree or held by one member of the killing squad while another one dealt the lethal blows with elbows or perhaps a rifle butt. Since Lyuda's body was firmly fixated in one position, the resulting damage also showed a linear pattern if the blows were delivered from the same angle which is likely during such an attack.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 12:40:13 PM by Per Inge Oestmoen »

December 28, 2019, 01:11:48 PM
Reply #393
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sarapuk

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Why not just make them all disappear, including the tent and all their gear?  That would leave zero evidence and just one big mystery about their disappearance?  It's much cleaner and easier and far more logical.

Another possibility is if they had seen something why not make them sign non disclosure documents, in the ame way the pathologists were required to sign non disclosure documents?

One other question Lyuda left set of ribs have 6 fractures all in a single line.  How was this pattern of fractures created so linearly?



1. Why not make them all disappear?

- Because then it would have been rather obvious that it was murder. The public, their relatives and friends would have understood that nine resourceful humans do not spontaneously disappear with no trace, and they would quite correctly assumed that a killing mission had taken place. That could have created public unrest. To avoid that, it is far more logical to arrange an "accident." Secret police forces all over the worid arrange "suicides", "accidents" and "natural deaths," in particular when the security of state is at stake. Think about the famous Giorgi Markov case. Only the fact that Markov managed to tell of a man running from him after he felt a sharp pain in his thigh prevented the murder to be written off as a "natural death."

2. Why not make them sign non disclosure documents?

- These nine students were bright people. They were young, and they would understand what they observed and be able to tell others in great detail. That made them potentially dangerous. Even if there were no reason to doubt their loyalty to the Soviet state there would always be a risk that one or several of them would tell some spouse, friend or relative what they saw back in 1959. That could be considered too much of a risk to take.

3. One other question Lyuda left set of ribs have 6 fractures all in a single line.  How was this pattern of fractures created so linearly?

- There is no way to tell exactly how it happened, but a likely scenario is that Dubinina was pressed in a standing position against a tree or held by one member of the killing squad while another one dealt the lethal blows with elbows or perhaps a rifle butt. Since Lyuda's body was firmly fixated in one position, the resulting damage also showed a linear pattern if the blows were delivered from the same angle which is likely during such an attack.


But if some one wanted to make it look like an accident then why not do something more simple. There are many ways potential murderers could have made it look more like an accident.  Also you can not explain the missing tongue or extraordinary movement of one of the toughest bones in the Human Body.
DB

December 28, 2019, 05:07:21 PM
Reply #394
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Why not just make them all disappear, including the tent and all their gear?  That would leave zero evidence and just one big mystery about their disappearance?  It's much cleaner and easier and far more logical.

Another possibility is if they had seen something why not make them sign non disclosure documents, in the ame way the pathologists were required to sign non disclosure documents?

One other question Lyuda left set of ribs have 6 fractures all in a single line.  How was this pattern of fractures created so linearly?



1. Why not make them all disappear?

- Because then it would have been rather obvious that it was murder. The public, their relatives and friends would have understood that nine resourceful humans do not spontaneously disappear with no trace, and they would quite correctly assumed that a killing mission had taken place. That could have created public unrest. To avoid that, it is far more logical to arrange an "accident." Secret police forces all over the worid arrange "suicides", "accidents" and "natural deaths," in particular when the security of state is at stake. Think about the famous Giorgi Markov case. Only the fact that Markov managed to tell of a man running from him after he felt a sharp pain in his thigh prevented the murder to be written off as a "natural death."

2. Why not make them sign non disclosure documents?

- These nine students were bright people. They were young, and they would understand what they observed and be able to tell others in great detail. That made them potentially dangerous. Even if there were no reason to doubt their loyalty to the Soviet state there would always be a risk that one or several of them would tell some spouse, friend or relative what they saw back in 1959. That could be considered too much of a risk to take.

3. One other question Lyuda left set of ribs have 6 fractures all in a single line.  How was this pattern of fractures created so linearly?

- There is no way to tell exactly how it happened, but a likely scenario is that Dubinina was pressed in a standing position against a tree or held by one member of the killing squad while another one dealt the lethal blows with elbows or perhaps a rifle butt. Since Lyuda's body was firmly fixated in one position, the resulting damage also showed a linear pattern if the blows were delivered from the same angle which is likely during such an attack.

Why would you associate disappearing in a very harsh environment as murder?  People disappear in such environments all the time .  They could have fallen into a crevasse and their bodies covered with snow? 

Are there examples of straight line multiple rib fractures and flail chest that you could put forward to substantiate your claim that these injuries are consistent with hand to hand combat?  My own analysis suggests that these injuries could not have been caused in that way.  At least not by a human. 

Also the shape of Thibo’s depressed fracture is identical in shape and proportions to the ball of a thumb.  I would expect a rifle butt to be flatter on one side.  Again are there examples to substantiate that a blow from a rifle butt can result in such a shape on the skull?

One other question.  Why do you think it was human rather than a Yeti?

Regards
Star man

January 02, 2020, 05:00:57 PM
Reply #395
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Star man

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Going back to the injuries and whether they could have been a result of a fall down a steep slope.  There are a couple of questions that come to mind:

1.  Were Lyuda's chest injuries a result of a single large impact or two separate impacts?
2. Is it a coincidence that the two people with significant chest injuries also both had missing eyes?

I think for 1 two impacts seem more likely but if this were the case would the first impact not absorb most of the energy of the fall which then leaves the question where did the energy come from for the second impact?  A second fall or continued fall?

For 2 it just seems unlikely to be a coincidence.  It's not impossible just less likely. 

Regards

Star man

January 03, 2020, 11:00:44 AM
Reply #396
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sarapuk

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Going back to the injuries and whether they could have been a result of a fall down a steep slope.  There are a couple of questions that come to mind:

1.  Were Lyuda's chest injuries a result of a single large impact or two separate impacts?
2. Is it a coincidence that the two people with significant chest injuries also both had missing eyes?

I think for 1 two impacts seem more likely but if this were the case would the first impact not absorb most of the energy of the fall which then leaves the question where did the energy come from for the second impact?  A second fall or continued fall?

For 2 it just seems unlikely to be a coincidence.  It's not impossible just less likely. 

Regards

Star man

Some of the injuries are similar to the infamous so called CATTLE MUTILATIONS that have occurred around the World at various times
DB

January 03, 2020, 04:44:14 PM
Reply #397
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Going back to the injuries and whether they could have been a result of a fall down a steep slope.  There are a couple of questions that come to mind:

1.  Were Lyuda's chest injuries a result of a single large impact or two separate impacts?
2. Is it a coincidence that the two people with significant chest injuries also both had missing eyes?

I think for 1 two impacts seem more likely but if this were the case would the first impact not absorb most of the energy of the fall which then leaves the question where did the energy come from for the second impact?  A second fall or continued fall?

For 2 it just seems unlikely to be a coincidence.  It's not impossible just less likely. 

Regards

Star man

Some of the injuries are similar to the infamous so called CATTLE MUTILATIONS that have occurred around the World at various times

I guess they are.  It's strange that there is a narrative that supports an attack by some "thing" .  I would still like to understand why Yuri D climbed the cedar given the state of his hands and feet.  Were his hands and feet in a poor state by the time he got to the cedar, or were they in a better condition, and became severely frost bitten while he was at the cedar trying to start a fire?  Did he climb the tree to collect fire wood and then later developed frost bite because it took a long time to build the fire?  How long did it take them to get to the cedar from the tent?  Answering these questions might help to understand whether Yuri D and Krivo and possibly the others climbed the tree to escape some kind of threat?

Regards

Star man

January 06, 2020, 11:43:34 PM
Reply #398
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Star man

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Another consideration for a fall down a incline.  What are the chances of Lyuda and Semyon falling together and both sustaining very similar injuries?  If Semyon was helping Lyuda or they were both helping Thibo then maybe it is possible that they fell at the same time, but to then both receive flail chest!  Again if they fell from the same place, the same height onto the same rocks then maybe.  Thibo’s head injury is different so is it possible that he fell at a different place?  Kolevatov helps Thibo, Semyon helps Lyuda.  Semyon and Lyuda fall together.  Kolevatov and Thibo don’t fall down the slope? 

Still needs more thought,

Regards
Star man

January 07, 2020, 11:23:27 AM
Reply #399
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Going back to the injuries and whether they could have been a result of a fall down a steep slope.  There are a couple of questions that come to mind:

1.  Were Lyuda's chest injuries a result of a single large impact or two separate impacts?
2. Is it a coincidence that the two people with significant chest injuries also both had missing eyes?

I think for 1 two impacts seem more likely but if this were the case would the first impact not absorb most of the energy of the fall which then leaves the question where did the energy come from for the second impact?  A second fall or continued fall?

For 2 it just seems unlikely to be a coincidence.  It's not impossible just less likely. 

Regards

Star man

Some of the injuries are similar to the infamous so called CATTLE MUTILATIONS that have occurred around the World at various times

I guess they are.  It's strange that there is a narrative that supports an attack by some "thing" .  I would still like to understand why Yuri D climbed the cedar given the state of his hands and feet.  Were his hands and feet in a poor state by the time he got to the cedar, or were they in a better condition, and became severely frost bitten while he was at the cedar trying to start a fire?  Did he climb the tree to collect fire wood and then later developed frost bite because it took a long time to build the fire?  How long did it take them to get to the cedar from the tent?  Answering these questions might help to understand whether Yuri D and Krivo and possibly the others climbed the tree to escape some kind of threat?

Regards

Star man

I like your use of the word THING. THING is exactly what we may be up against  !  ?  The Soviet Authorities had to use other words. And this THING behaved in a way that we can not comprehend and that may in turn explain a lot about this Dyatlov Mystery.
DB

January 11, 2020, 04:28:58 PM
Reply #400
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
A question about the sheet that was used in the tent:

In the Sharavin interview he describes a sheet being in place at the entrance to the tent.  Extract is below:

K: And the sheet that hung at the entrance? Could you see it?

MSh: Yes there was, it looks like there was. Maybe that's why they didn't try to go out through the entrance. On one side of the entrance there was a stove, there was something else they had there. Then it [the sheet] was hung up and it was necessary to leave the tent very quickly. I have such an opinion, to the question why they left the tent so urgently, there can be only one answer: life threatening factors, most likely poisoning. They could not breathe. If there was a movement of snow, they would not have run like that. At night they don’t see how much snow is moving, but the slide stopped. The tent was not demolished. After all, it didn’t grind everyone head over heels with the tent. I think that these were factors related to the unknown and the inability to continue to be here. Couldn't breathe! And the poisoning is such that they felt it. That's why they ran.


I thought the sheet was used to make a partition in the tent for the girls?  So what was it doing at the entrance to the tent?  Keeping the draft out?

Regards
Star man

January 11, 2020, 06:10:44 PM
Reply #401
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jarrfan


It is possible there were 2 sheets, but will have to check. I remember the partition sheet to separate the girls. it is possible there was a sheet to avert cold wind coming into the entrance since it was buttoned and there could have been drafts.

Another person described the entrance as buttoned closed. This does not make any sense unless the group were convinced they were being asked to come out for just a moment of interrogation.

As far as the footprints, a force could have been standing farther from the group as they were commanded to walk down to the tree line which they accommodated and walked in unison trying to figure out the next step to stay alive.

It is possible they were tortured with fire but it is also possible they were separated and interrogated with the "force" going back and forth to check each person's answers. There was said to be pieces of flesh on the tree bark and the hands of the 2 Yuri's were macerated. They definitely climbed the tree as noted by the cut branches, but still no purpose for that has been established.

There was discussion about poisoning to get them out of the tent. I wonder if it is possible the 3 small cuts were actually from outside the tent and the one seamstress was just making her personal guess. I could guess someone forced a substance, maybe powdered mushrooms or possibly LSD into the tent either by the Mansi which was suggested also, or by the KGB. The CIA used LSD on their own agents in the 1950s, so it is possible the Russians did too.

Keep thinking...

January 12, 2020, 04:09:24 PM
Reply #402
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Star man

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It is possible there were 2 sheets, but will have to check. I remember the partition sheet to separate the girls. it is possible there was a sheet to avert cold wind coming into the entrance since it was buttoned and there could have been drafts.

Another person described the entrance as buttoned closed. This does not make any sense unless the group were convinced they were being asked to come out for just a moment of interrogation.

As far as the footprints, a force could have been standing farther from the group as they were commanded to walk down to the tree line which they accommodated and walked in unison trying to figure out the next step to stay alive.

It is possible they were tortured with fire but it is also possible they were separated and interrogated with the "force" going back and forth to check each person's answers. There was said to be pieces of flesh on the tree bark and the hands of the 2 Yuri's were macerated. They definitely climbed the tree as noted by the cut branches, but still no purpose for that has been established.

There was discussion about poisoning to get them out of the tent. I wonder if it is possible the 3 small cuts were actually from outside the tent and the one seamstress was just making her personal guess. I could guess someone forced a substance, maybe powdered mushrooms or possibly LSD into the tent either by the Mansi which was suggested also, or by the KGB. The CIA used LSD on their own agents in the 1950s, so it is possible the Russians did too.

Keep thinking...

It is possible that it was genuinely used to keep the cold out of the tent.  It's interesting though when you consider the scene.  I can't be sure but it does appear that the three cuts were made from inside, and then the holes were made bigger by grabbing the cuts and pulling, tearing the tent.  There is a suppose to be a hole in the tent with one of Dyatlov's jackets stuffed into it.  The blankets are layed out and not crumpled.  Thibo and Semyon were better dressed and had shoes on.  Semyon had his camera around his neck.  Rusted managed to put on one boot but not the other, which I assume was left in the tent (7 Valenki).  They took matches, a flashlight, knives or at least one or more pen knives.  Another jacket was found about 10 metres from the tent.  They definitely left in a hurry and they didn't stop to finish dressing.

Regards

Star man

January 27, 2020, 11:40:16 PM
Reply #403
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Weighing up all the different evidence for the dpi I thought that this might be an interesting question for the Yeti theory:

What evidence is there that they were not attacked by a Yeti or some other kind of large ape like creature?

Apart from the the obvious challenge that Yetis don’t exist or have never been proven to exist.  What evidence is there to rule it out.  One problem that I can think of to start with is the lack of foot prints of such a creature.

What else is there?

Regards

Star man

January 28, 2020, 01:00:49 PM
Reply #404
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Weighing up all the different evidence for the dpi I thought that this might be an interesting question for the Yeti theory:

What evidence is there that they were not attacked by a Yeti or some other kind of large ape like creature?

Apart from the the obvious challenge that Yetis don’t exist or have never been proven to exist.  What evidence is there to rule it out.  One problem that I can think of to start with is the lack of foot prints of such a creature.

What else is there?

Regards

Star man

Its really a fundamental philosophical point you raise. And its tricky. If we knew that we were dealing with a crime then we would have to curtail the wild theories. But because we dont know if a crime was committed then we can allow these wild theories. I suppose most would agree that the Yeti theory comes under the wild heading. Even so it is probably best if we keep our feet on the ground so to speak. And that is a point I would like to bring up here. What if the mythical Yeti is not of this known World  !  ?  That could immediately answer your lack of Footprints point. Interestingly The Indian Army was convinced that it had come across Yeti Footprints in the Himalaya.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-48101717
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 01:12:59 PM by sarapuk »
DB

January 28, 2020, 09:12:37 PM
Reply #405
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jarrfan


As far as the Yeti theory, I would investigate the Mansi stories to confirm or not confirm they have seen a Yeti or seen footprints. They are the people who live there and they are the ones hunting in the woods. If a yeti  can be confirmed, it has to be by the Mansi information....

January 29, 2020, 06:00:13 AM
Reply #406
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Weighing up all the different evidence for the dpi I thought that this might be an interesting question for the Yeti theory:

What evidence is there that they were not attacked by a Yeti or some other kind of large ape like creature?

Apart from the the obvious challenge that Yetis don’t exist or have never been proven to exist.  What evidence is there to rule it out.  One problem that I can think of to start with is the lack of foot prints of such a creature.

What else is there?

Regards

Star man

Its really a fundamental philosophical point you raise. And its tricky. If we knew that we were dealing with a crime then we would have to curtail the wild theories. But because we dont know if a crime was committed then we can allow these wild theories. I suppose most would agree that the Yeti theory comes under the wild heading. Even so it is probably best if we keep our feet on the ground so to speak. And that is a point I would like to bring up here. What if the mythical Yeti is not of this known World  !  ?  That could immediately answer your lack of Footprints point. Interestingly The Indian Army was convinced that it had come across Yeti Footprints in the Himalaya.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-48101717.

author=sarapuk link=topic=452.msg8303#msg8303 date=1580245249]
Weighing up all the different evidence for the dpi I thought that this might be an interesting question for the Yeti theory:

What evidence is there that they were not attacked by a Yeti or some other kind of large ape like creature?

Apart from the the obvious challenge that Yetis don’t exist or have never been proven to exist.  What evidence is there to rule it out.  One problem that I can think of to start with is the lack of foot prints of such a creature.

What else is there?

Regards

Star man

Its really a fundamental philosophical point you raise. And its tricky. If we knew that we were dealing with a crime then we would have to curtail the wild theories. But because we dont know if a crime was committed then we can allow these wild theories. I suppose most would agree that the Yeti theory comes under the wild heading. Even so it is probably best if we keep our feet on the ground so to speak. And that is a point I would like to bring up here. What if the mythical Yeti is not of this known World  !  ?  That could immediately answer your lack of Footprints point. Interestingly The Indian Army was convinced that it had come across Yeti Footprints in the Himalaya.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-48101717.
[/quote]

Your quite correct.  The Yeti is a wild theory.  But I think if it’s worth considering it is worth considering properly.  Absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence.  We have all been indoctrinated to believe that such creatures don’t exist.  Yet there are hundreds of eye witness reports and lots of grainy videos and photographs some of which are at least credible. 

Don’t get me wrong I too am still sceptical and as previously stated in this topic , when I first started to look at it I expected to find evidence to rule it out.  However I found evidence that supports it.  Saying that caution is still required because when you introduce potentially mythical explanations into a theory it becomes easier to fit the myth to the evidence.  I don’t think I have done that. There is a narrative that seems to fit.  Many pieces of evidence can be attributed to different causes but when you do that the narrative moves further and further away from reality and almost becomes as unlikely as the myth.  Examples below:

1. Leaving the tent with no shoes or outside clothes suggests an immediate threat to their lives.  There are many possible threats that might explain this.  A dangerous animal or creature being one.

2. Thibo’s head injury is identical in shape and proportion to a very large thumb.  This could be coincidence.  Thibo May have fallen heavily and hit his head on a rock of exactly the right shape and radius of curvature and luckily did sustain any other significant injuries to extremities or body.

3. Rustem head injury and internal bleeding/damage is consistent with an assault of some kind.  But he may have simply wandered around the slope repeatedly falling over hitting his head until he just gave up and layer down to die.

4. Lyuda and Semyon’s injuries are consistent with a massive assault typical of that of an large ape with facial damage including eye removed and Lyuda tongue, hyoid bone.  But it is possible that they just fell off a ridge and landed heavily sustaining very similar injuries while not significantly hurting arena/legs, ankles and wrists.  It is possible that the eyes and tongue are just a component of natural decay and the unusual movement of the hyoid bone is just normal.

5. Yuri D climes the cedar when it is likely that he had severe frost bite.  Was he trying to find safety from something or was he just trying to get fire wood and look for his friends.

Why would the government behave so strangely about the case, even if they knew a Yeti was involved?  Maybe because the creature was a hybrid human that they themselves had been experimenting with and had been released into the wild.  NB previous government sponsored research into producing human/ape hybrids.

Maybe it was just something else - nuclear or chemical weapon test.

The point is the more you try to explain away all the related circumstances as coincidence the more unlikely that narrative becomes too.

Regards
Star man

January 29, 2020, 08:37:41 AM
Reply #407
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
As far as the Yeti theory, I would investigate the Mansi stories to confirm or not confirm they have seen a Yeti or seen footprints. They are the people who live there and they are the ones hunting in the woods. If a yeti  can be confirmed, it has to be by the Mansi information....

From what I have seen it appears the Menk is a part of the Mansi belief system.  But many native peoples have similar beliefs and stories including many native Americans.  I”m not sure it will help support the case though. 

If you think about it though even if someone provides proof of the existence of Yeti it doesn’t prove that a Yeti was responsible for the dpi.  That would still have to be proven.

Regards
Star man

Regards
Star man

January 29, 2020, 11:50:01 PM
Reply #408
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just to illustrate the point I made above further with a hypothetical example:

A man is found dead at the front of a tall building.  He has significant chest, head injuries.  He recently lost his job, his girlfriend left him, he was being evicted from his apartment and he told all his friends he was fed up with life.  His apartment is directly above where he was found.  His balcony door was open and dirt was found on the hand rail that matches the dirt on his shoes.  What do you think happened to him!

Conclusion - he was subject to a hit and run outside his apartment building?

He may have left the door to his balcony open to get some fresh air in?  The dirt on the hand rail is where he rested his foot while doing his shoe lace up. 

Regards

Star man

February 11, 2020, 09:45:07 AM
Reply #409
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Per Inge Oestmoen


Weighing up all the different evidence for the dpi I thought that this might be an interesting question for the Yeti theory:

What evidence is there that they were not attacked by a Yeti or some other kind of large ape like creature?

Apart from the the obvious challenge that Yetis don’t exist or have never been proven to exist.  What evidence is there to rule it out.  One problem that I can think of to start with is the lack of foot prints of such a creature.

What else is there?

Regards

Star man

Its really a fundamental philosophical point you raise. And its tricky. If we knew that we were dealing with a crime then we would have to curtail the wild theories. But because we dont know if a crime was committed then we can allow these wild theories. I suppose most would agree that the Yeti theory comes under the wild heading. Even so it is probably best if we keep our feet on the ground so to speak. And that is a point I would like to bring up here. What if the mythical Yeti is not of this known World  !  ?  That could immediately answer your lack of Footprints point. Interestingly The Indian Army was convinced that it had come across Yeti Footprints in the Himalaya.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-48101717.

author=sarapuk link=topic=452.msg8303#msg8303 date=1580245249]
Weighing up all the different evidence for the dpi I thought that this might be an interesting question for the Yeti theory:

What evidence is there that they were not attacked by a Yeti or some other kind of large ape like creature?

Apart from the the obvious challenge that Yetis don’t exist or have never been proven to exist.  What evidence is there to rule it out.  One problem that I can think of to start with is the lack of foot prints of such a creature.

What else is there?

Regards

Star man

Its really a fundamental philosophical point you raise. And its tricky. If we knew that we were dealing with a crime then we would have to curtail the wild theories. But because we dont know if a crime was committed then we can allow these wild theories. I suppose most would agree that the Yeti theory comes under the wild heading. Even so it is probably best if we keep our feet on the ground so to speak. And that is a point I would like to bring up here. What if the mythical Yeti is not of this known World  !  ?  That could immediately answer your lack of Footprints point. Interestingly The Indian Army was convinced that it had come across Yeti Footprints in the Himalaya.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-48101717.

Your quite correct.  The Yeti is a wild theory.  But I think if it’s worth considering it is worth considering properly.  Absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence.  We have all been indoctrinated to believe that such creatures don’t exist.  Yet there are hundreds of eye witness reports and lots of grainy videos and photographs some of which are at least credible. 

Don’t get me wrong I too am still sceptical and as previously stated in this topic , when I first started to look at it I expected to find evidence to rule it out.  However I found evidence that supports it.  Saying that caution is still required because when you introduce potentially mythical explanations into a theory it becomes easier to fit the myth to the evidence.  I don’t think I have done that. There is a narrative that seems to fit.  Many pieces of evidence can be attributed to different causes but when you do that the narrative moves further and further away from reality and almost becomes as unlikely as the myth.  Examples below:

1. Leaving the tent with no shoes or outside clothes suggests an immediate threat to their lives.  There are many possible threats that might explain this.  A dangerous animal or creature being one.

2. Thibo’s head injury is identical in shape and proportion to a very large thumb.  This could be coincidence.  Thibo May have fallen heavily and hit his head on a rock of exactly the right shape and radius of curvature and luckily did sustain any other significant injuries to extremities or body.

3. Rustem head injury and internal bleeding/damage is consistent with an assault of some kind.  But he may have simply wandered around the slope repeatedly falling over hitting his head until he just gave up and layer down to die.

4. Lyuda and Semyon’s injuries are consistent with a massive assault typical of that of an large ape with facial damage including eye removed and Lyuda tongue, hyoid bone.  But it is possible that they just fell off a ridge and landed heavily sustaining very similar injuries while not significantly hurting arena/legs, ankles and wrists.  It is possible that the eyes and tongue are just a component of natural decay and the unusual movement of the hyoid bone is just normal.

5. Yuri D climes the cedar when it is likely that he had severe frost bite.  Was he trying to find safety from something or was he just trying to get fire wood and look for his friends.

Why would the government behave so strangely about the case, even if they knew a Yeti was involved?  Maybe because the creature was a hybrid human that they themselves had been experimenting with and had been released into the wild.  NB previous government sponsored research into producing human/ape hybrids.

Maybe it was just something else - nuclear or chemical weapon test.

The point is the more you try to explain away all the related circumstances as coincidence the more unlikely that narrative becomes too.

Regards
Star man
[/quote]

All these injuries bespeak an attack.

We can safely dismiss the avalanche theory. There were no avalanches in the area. 

We can safely dismiss the infrasound theory. There are no observations of infrasound no observations of infrasound having that particular effect.  There are no observations of infrasound having made a large group of people lose their senses in the same way with no one among a group of intelligent humans being able to reason clearly. 

We can safely dismiss the yeti theory. Yetis do not exist, and fantasy creatures do not kill people.

- Leaving the tent without proper clothing or mittens means that there was an immediate threat to their lives. The only probable threat would come from other humans. There were no bite marks, no claw marks, on any of the victims, so the wolverine theory as well as the wolf theory can also be dismissed.

- The injuries of the two Yuris are consistent with their attempt to flee their attackers by desperately trying to climb a tree with bare hands without mittens. That kind of desperation is seen when someone is pursued.

- The shape of the head injury of Thibo is consistent with the impact of a few blows from a rifle butt.

- The head injury of Rustem Slobodin, likewise. There is no possibility that these injuries could have resulted from him stumbling around and falling.

- The injuries of Lyuda and Semyon are consistent with repeated blows by trained killers. From my jiu jitsu training (I am merely a yellow belt, though) I know very well that elbow strikes by a trained human can create just these injuries. There is no possibility that these injuries came from a fall. The ravine was not steep enough, and if there had been a fall it would still be impossible that both would have the same kind of chest damage with no damage to their limbs.

- These people were all murdered, and they were murdered by another group of humans who took great care to make it look like an accident. The attackers' intelligence and skill is beyond doubt, only Igor Dyatlov had an injury that seems to have been caused by an edged weapon - most likely a bayonet which Igor hit when he tried to fight against his attackers. However, these attackers were not local people or common criminals.

- Why the Soviet government behaved so strange? Well, these nine students were gifted individuals and many of them had high technical competence. If they witnessed something there in the Urals they were not supposed to know about, they would pose a potential security risk to the state. Given the international situation at the time, the Soviet government could not afford such a risk. So, an "accident" occurred.

- Yes, there was an "overwhelming force" indeed. That was the investigator's way to indirectly state what killed these unfortunates.

February 11, 2020, 11:46:17 PM
Reply #410
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I agree with a lot that you say.  It does fit an attack - and Yetis might not exist, but given the wealth of reports many by credible people it would be foolish to rule it out as a possibility and there is evidence that fits.  Thibo’s skull fracture doesn’t resemble a rifle butt.  This is examined in a previous post. 

I would not rule out the possibility of a simple snow slide that covered the tent forcing the hikers to cut their way out.  WAB has presented a convincing scenario where the injuries could have been sustained.  Put the snow slide and WANs idea together and there is a simple plausible explanation. The injuries are very suspect.  But it isn’t impossible that they occurred naturally.  If the tent was covered with snow and they had to dig their way out it would not be long before their hands would loose all feeling and become useless.  Clearly this is why Krivonischenko bit his own finger.  From shear frustration and desperation knowing he needed his hands to survive.  He probably could not feel any pain when he did this.

I still don’t think there is enough evidence - even speculative to suggest they were attacked by people. 

Regards

Star man

May 21, 2020, 03:50:06 AM
Reply #411
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alecsandros


Hello there,
This is my first post on DPI, and I have to say I am thrilled with the existent forum ! Many thanks to all the contributors.

My addition to the Yeti/Menk theory is the following exerpt from a study ("The Legend of the Almas: A Comparative and Critical Analysis" available here: https://digitalcollections.sit.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=http://www.google.ro/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjuhuz238TpAhWmThUIHf1qBtgQFjAWegQICRAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdigitalcollections.sit.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1780%26context%3Disp_collection&usg=AOvVaw1KzWTt1DiKO5WLzsHJ0NH8&httpsredir=1&article=1780&context=isp_collection) concerning the existence of the "Almas" creature (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almas_(cryptozoology)), which, unlike the almost entirely peacefull Yeti, can react with violence when cornered:
 
"There were also many wartime sightings and interactions with the almas. In 1925 in the Pamir mountains, Russian soldiers had cornered rebels in a cave (“Russian Bigfoot“). However, there was an almas in the cave, which attacked the rebels one by one, until one of the rebels managed to shoot and kill it (“Russian Bigfoot”). The one surviving rebel showed the almas to Russian General Mikhail Stephanovitch Topilski, who described it in an official report (“Russian Bigfoot“)."

Very interestingly for DPI, the "almas" attacked the rebels "one by one", until there was only one survivor (that managed to kill it).

The author, at the end of the study, makes his own assertion regarding the existence of the "Almas": "My Explanation For The Almas. After completing this paper, my opinion on the question of the reality of
the almas is that it definitely used to and possibly still does exist as a real creature. I think the most likely explanation is that the almas is a small, surviving group of Neanderthals or some other, possibly unknown, descendent of homo erectus. Neanderthals and possibly some other pre-human species were alive at the same time as modern humans before competition drove them to extinction."

May 23, 2020, 06:18:02 AM
Reply #412
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alecsandros


Further on the Yeti/Menk theory, I've done some reading the previous days about Russian, Mongolian and Chinese human-like wild men or ape creatures, reported in the last 100 years. I've found the Siberian Chuchuuna (6 to 7 feet high that reportedly feeds on human flesh , also spelled Tjutjuna), the Mongolian Almas (6 to 7 feet high that can kill a yak with a single paw swipe, also called Almasti or Mulen) , the Nepalese Yeti (the Abominable Snowman, 7 to 9 feet high that is usually peacefull, but attacks humans when cornered/threatened. Other names Nyalmo, Chuti, Ban Jhakri).

Any one of those cryptozoological beasts had the strength to produce serious injuries (cracked skulls, broken ribs), and all of them are reported to attack people when cornered/threatened. One report on the Yeti mentions two of them attacking a yak herd in the middle of the night, killing two yaks immediately (by grabbing them by the horns and snapping their necks) and completely consuming (eating) them by morning. Another report of a Yeti attack in 1974 on a herd of human-held yaks produced an immediate victim (a yak had it's neck snapped immediately), who's brain was later eaten.

More info here: https://hobnailtrekkingco.com/the-mysterious-yeti/

A photo of Giganthopitecus next to a human (8ft versus 6ft tall - my estimate): https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2016/01/160106-science-evolution-apes-giant/
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 06:24:38 AM by alecsandros »

May 27, 2020, 04:55:39 PM
Reply #413
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
A couple of interesting articles there alecsandros. As you know there are vast amounts of information coming online these days. The WWW just keeps getting bigger and better. Your first article does get me thinking as to why, as far as I know, no one as ever launched a serious attempt to study all the local Tribes Legends in the areas that the Dyatlov Group passed through on their ill fated expedition. Apart from the initial investigation by the Authorities when the Mansi were allegedly interrogated as possible suspects in the Murder of the Dyatlov Group. A study of the Local Tribes Legends would almost certainly bring up the Menk, this areas version of BIGFOOT. The study would need to be done on the ground to get the best feel for the Legends. Interviewing the Locals, many of whom are going to be getting very old.
DB

May 28, 2020, 01:09:13 AM
Reply #414
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alecsandros


A couple of interesting articles there alecsandros. As you know there are vast amounts of information coming online these days. The WWW just keeps getting bigger and better. Your first article does get me thinking as to why, as far as I know, no one as ever launched a serious attempt to study all the local Tribes Legends in the areas that the Dyatlov Group passed through on their ill fated expedition. Apart from the initial investigation by the Authorities when the Mansi were allegedly interrogated as possible suspects in the Murder of the Dyatlov Group. A study of the Local Tribes Legends would almost certainly bring up the Menk, this areas version of BIGFOOT. The study would need to be done on the ground to get the best feel for the Legends. Interviewing the Locals, many of whom are going to be getting very old.
I would be thrilled to learn about the scientific observation of a Menk. I grew up with Jules Verne's books about mysterious places and travels, and I still hope that Planet Earth still has surprises for us, even in our post-modern world.
My best bet would be that the Menk is a Denovisan/Neanderthal hybrid, or some small population of Giganthopitecus...

Today at 04:48:34 PM
Reply #415
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Have tried to mark up the picture again.  It is not great as I had to use my phone.  It appears that the hole was cut, then hands were used to pull at the hole to make it bigger.  It could have been the hikers themselves or the search party or someone/something else .

I would not be surprised if the other cuts were used in the same way.




image uploader

I am still pondering the scene at the tent.  I think there are several key pieces of information of note:

1.  The cuts made from the inside of the tent.
2. The fact that the group left the camp site all together
3. The fact that many of them did not collect appropriate clothing and footwear.  E.g Rustem's single boot.
4.  Nothing obvious taken from the tent.
5. The front of the tent was found still standing.

There other facts but the above are the ones that I am interested at the moment.

There are also reports that there was a sheet set up near the entrance, also that there was a hole with a jacket pushed into it.  There are also reports of another jacket and shoes found several metres from the tent.  I am cautious with the eye witness information as it is less reliable and the scene at the tent was messed up when the rescue party arrived.

There's not much to go on, but I keep coming back to this as I think understanding this scene is very important.  I will post any ideas I come up with.

Regards

Star Man