Perception vs. Reality

[MDGross]

At the heart of the theories involving naturally-occurring phenomena is the question of perception versus reality. What did a member or members of the Dyatlov group THINK was happening? Did a sudden hurricane-force wind sound like an avalanche? Could an avalanche several miles away sound like it was much closer (the sound carried on the wind and intensified by the mountains)? Could a small movement of snow seem like a much larger one? Could a sudden wind blow snow so violently that it looked like an avalanche? What did they BELIVE was happening on that fatal night when they fled the tent in fear of their lives? Of course, the maddening thing is we'll never know for certain. We can only speculate, and we'll always have more questions than answers.
For those theories that involve exploding missiles, military exercises, or murder by the KBG or Soviet military, the problem I think is in finding documentation, which after nearly 61 years is nearly impossible.

[Nigel Evans]

I've camped in the UK in winter during a storm and can understand the idea of the wind sounding like an avalanche. Didn't get a lot of sleep that night.

However a good answer might be that Nicolai and Semyon were well dressed for the cold  and Semyon seems to have been photographing something so it's commonly believed they were outside at the time of the "event" as the observed  footsteps supported this view. Also whatever made them flee the tent lightly dressed seems to have encouraged them to stay in the forest and not return? So a weather phenomena theory seems to be an outlier. The Russian government doesn't seem to agree of course. 

[narvikk]

I don’t think it was something you mentioned. They would realize soon it’s not a real threat and they would return soon. It was something different in my opinion.

[Star man]

It is possible that perception may have been a component of what happened.  This is similar in principal to the infra sound theory, where such sound can induce dead or fear. 

However I think that some very real threat is more likely to be involved.

Regards

Star man

[sarapuk]

At the heart of the theories involving naturally-occurring phenomena is the question of perception versus reality. What did a member or members of the Dyatlov group THINK was happening? Did a sudden hurricane-force wind sound like an avalanche? Could an avalanche several miles away sound like it was much closer (the sound carried on the wind and intensified by the mountains)? Could a small movement of snow seem like a much larger one? Could a sudden wind blow snow so violently that it looked like an avalanche? What did they BELIVE was happening on that fatal night when they fled the tent in fear of their lives? Of course, the maddening thing is we'll never know for certain. We can only speculate, and we'll always have more questions than answers.
For those theories that involve exploding missiles, military exercises, or murder by the KBG or Soviet military, the problem I think is in finding documentation, which after nearly 61 years is nearly impossible.

After the fall of the USSR there has been a fairly steady flow of INFORMATION coming out of Russia to do with this Dyatlov Mystery. And much of this information reduces the perception that you are referring to. And there is likely to be more information to come out of Russia.

[sarapuk]

It is possible that perception may have been a component of what happened.  This is similar in principal to the infra sound theory, where such sound can induce dead or fear. 

However I think that some very real threat is more likely to be involved.

Regards

Star man

Reality beats perception. The threat was real enough.

[MDGross]

It seems like the leading theories fall into one category or the other:
ACT OF NATURE:  The group was carelessly camped in space wide open to the elements. It was pitch black, snow swirling, wind blowing, 20 to 30 degrees below zero. For whatever reason, they believed an avalanche, snow slab avalanche or a hurricane was happening. No time to put on shoes or coats, just cut the tent open and get out. They walk single file holding on to the person in front because the wind was howling, or in the dark they didn't want to get separated from each other. The harsh, forbidding environment seems to lend credence to such theories.
ACT OF MAN: A missile explodes releasing toxic nitric acid. A person in the group has secret information to give Russian operatives of the CIA, and the group is murdered by the KGB. The group is tragically caught in the middle of a Soviet military exercise. Theories such as this or others like them are certainly believable. But somehow, some sort of documentation or eye-witness accounts by several people are needed for such explanations to be accepted as the truth. Otherwise, just like the act-of-nature theories, these theories will be speculative.

[Nigel Evans]

It seems like the leading theories fall into one category or the other:
ACT OF NATURE:  The group was carelessly camped in space wide open to the elements. It was pitch black, snow swirling, wind blowing, 20 to 30 degrees below zero. For whatever reason, they believed an avalanche, snow slab avalanche or a hurricane was happening. No time to put on shoes or coats, just cut the tent open and get out. They walk single file holding on to the person in front because the wind was howling, or in the dark they didn't want to get separated from each other. The footsteps indicate they did get separated on the descent. This supports the missile theory - one group got hit hard by acid rain (blinded?) and the other got down unharmed. The harsh, forbidding environment seems to lend credence to such theories.ACT OF MAN: A missile explodes releasing toxic nitric acid. A person in the group has secret information to give Russian operatives of the CIA, and the group is murdered by the KGB. The group is tragically caught in the middle of a Soviet military exercise. Theories such as this or others like them are certainly believable. But somehow, some sort of documentation or eye-witness accounts by several people are needed for such explanations to be accepted as the truth. Otherwise, just like the act-of-nature theories, these theories will be speculative. Given the recent reopening of the case by the Russian government that solely concentrates on three (easily discounted) natural causes my money is on all the DPI theories remaining speculative for some time to come. But i would agree that only the government's archives can explain this mystery should they still exist.

[MDGross]

Nigel, Wouldn't the acid rain cover a large enough area to affect everyone in the group? Why do you think some in the group may have been blinded? Curious what you base that idea on.

[Nigel Evans]

Nigel, Wouldn't the acid rain cover a large enough area to affect everyone in the group? Why do you think some in the group may have been blinded? Curious what you base that idea on.

The idea is principally based on Zinaida. She has no obvious signs of fatal injury and is relatively well dressed but just appears to have given up and laid down in the snow as if something else was inhibiting her movement. When she was found her face was covered in blood, those marks on her face were bleeding whilst she was alive. Then you have the injuries on the hands as if perhaps crawling. It seems reasonable within the missile theory that chemical rain or vapour could significantly reduce vision (in the dark).. Granted there are other theories (like fighting) but i'm exploring the missile theory = blinded case. A lot of the above applies to Igor. Rustem seems to have got blast damage = internal bleeding, a fractured skull. I don't see the case for "acid rain" blanketing everyone. A clue is in the young trees at the treeline showing burn marks but with no obvious pattern/direction/source (Ivanov's heat rays).
 

[Nigel Evans]

Also the idea that the group was dispersed on the descent gives a purpose to the fire and climbing the tree. The ones that got down were aware that they'd lost people on the way and the fire was to act as a guiding beacon and they climbed the tree to call out to them. Reduced eyesight is an explanation for the observation that they used a lot of matches to light the fire, N.B. these guys were very experienced campers and knew how to  light a fire in all conditions.