Hydrazine

[Nigel Evans]

Greetings all.


Currently i'm looking at the missile/rocket theory and interested in finding a fit for the condition of the snow and  the victims.

Regular readers will know that i've been interested in nitric acid for a while as a possible explanation, this chemical is a common component of rocket fuel both now and during the period concerned - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nedelin_catastrophe

 But rocket/missiles with liquid fuels typically have two components so what about other chemicals that could partner nitric acid?

Surfing around on this i've found hydrazine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine it has various names including UDMH as used in the Nedelin disaster.


Note the health effects - "Hydrazine exposure can cause skin irritation/contact dermatitis and burning, irritation to the eyes/nose/throat, nausea/vomiting, shortness of breath, pulmonary edema, headache, dizziness, central nervous system depression, lethargy, temporary blindness, seizures and coma. Exposure can also cause organ damage to the liver, kidneys and central nervous system.^[24][25] Hydrazine is documented as a strong skin sensitizer with potential for cross-sensitization to hydrazine derivatives following initial exposure"Bingo!?

Also note this :-

• "Hydrazine is a convenient reductant because the by-products are typically nitrogen gas and water.  Thus, it is used as an antioxidant, an oxygen scavenger, and a corrosion inhibitor in water boilers and heating systems."
• "These derivatives are used in two-component rocket fuels, often together with dinitrogen tetroxide, N₂O₄. These reactions are extremely exothermic, and the burning is also hypergolic (it starts burning without any external ignition)"

So the two fuels combined are extremely exothermic (= produce heat) but this chemical also reacts with oxygen, which (i assume) also generates some heat. So hydrazine on it's own would heat up the air and warm the snow and deposit warm water? Hmmm apparently it is a clear liquid (unlike nitric acid).


Now all of this is from a layman with no chemistry knowledge. So i'd be interested in any expert opinion. One of the avenues to chase along is the dark orange skin that curiously appeared post autopsy. I've been reading about the decomposition of human bodies https://www.theguardian.com/science/neurophilosophy/2015/may/05/life-after-death and come across this - "As damaged blood cells continue to leak from disintegrating vessels, anaerobic (bacteria) convert haemoglobin molecules, which once carried oxygen around the body, into sulfhaemoglobin.".
Maybe there's a chemical reaction there to explain this?

So imo the rocket theory has legs. :-

• The fuels can explain Yuri K's burnt leg.
• The persistent footprints, the snow melted and then refroze.
• Gives a reason for Zina to just lie down and die and her bruise on her side, she might have been blinded and unable to continue. The autopsy notes her corneas were cloudy.
• Rustem got smacked hard on the head by some fragment and then tumbled badly this explains his head injuries and internal bleeding.
• Yuri D and Yuri K demonstrate asymmetric frostbite relative to the others because Yuri K was burnt on the descent and he only got to the cedar (with YuriD's full assistance) after a considerable period giving the windchill far more time to take effect.
• Yuri D climbed the cedar to call out to Zina (who he had dated in the past) and Rustem who he had left on the slope to assist Yuri K. Then he fell down dead with a pulmonary edema.
• The area at the cedar was littered with fragments of partly burnt clothing.
• Explains why the cedar was abandoned, after Yuri D died of an edema staying in the open air clearly carried substantial risk. Best to dig a hole in the snow with as little ventilation as necessary. They had the expert in Semyon.
• Igor had vomited and had bleeding orifices.
• Both Igor Yuri D and Yuri K have similar marks on their skin which include "stripes" and right angles. Right angles are not common in nature -
• The injuries to the hands could be explained as an attempt to protect the face/head from further burns/impacts. (Zina/Igor/one of the Yuris).

As you probably know my explanation for the deaths of the ravine four is - https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=398.90


"May they rest in peace". 
 
Regards.

[MDGross]

Hi Nigel, Happy to see you've returned.
A few alternative possibilities to your bullet points:
The bonfire can explain burned clothes and skin especially when feet and legs have no feeling in them and Yuri K was burned without even realizing it.
A hard fall on a rock can lead to a cracked skull.
Cloudy corneas, orange colored skin and similar shaped bruising can possibly be caused by bodies lying frozen for nearly four weeks. (Anyone with medical knowledge, please help.)
Snow den was dug in an attempt to stay alive until morning.
Lacerations to hands, face and legs cause by ice blowing in a gale-force wind.

[Nigel Evans]

Hi Nigel, Happy to see you've returned.  I haven't been away?
A few alternative possibilities to your bullet points:
The bonfire can explain burned clothes and skin especially when feet and legs have no feeling in them and Yuri K was burned without even realizing it. YuriK's burn was extensive - 30cm long with the skin described in the autopsy as blown. I don't see it as a fit for being burnt at the fire unless it was torture.
A hard fall on a rock can lead to a cracked skull.
Cloudy corneas, orange colored skin and similar shaped bruising can possibly be caused by bodies lying frozen for nearly four weeks. (Anyone with medical knowledge, please help.) the orange skin was post the autopsy except for Lyudmila (brown/yellow face) who had a white chin which i assert was from the protection of a scarf or coat.
Snow den was dug in an attempt to stay alive until morning. So what was stopping them from returning to the tent to collect their stuff (a snowslide? (that's a joke btw)).
Lacerations to hands, face and legs cause by ice blowing in a gale-force wind. It's highly unlikely flying ice could create stripes at right angles to another line in one case. That this happened to YuriK and Igor has to be impossible?

[sarapuk]

Hydrazine  !  ?   Thats an exotic one. Ever seen those videos that crop up now and again when a small flare up occurs in the Middle east  !  ?  We get to see the left overs of a very small Missile attack. Lots of debris etc etc. The Missiles you allude to are far more substantial. And yet we have no DEBRIS or other TRACES found in that area where the Dyatlov Group met its demise. No DAMAGE to anyone that can be certified as from a Missile and no DAMAGE to the TENT etc etc. 

[Nigel Evans]

Hydrazine  !  ?   Thats an exotic one. Ever seen those videos that crop up now and again when a small flare up occurs in the Middle east  !  ?  We get to see the left overs of a very small Missile attack. Lots of debris etc etc. The Missiles you allude to are far more substantial. And yet we have no DEBRIS or other TRACES found in that area where the Dyatlov Group met its demise. No DAMAGE to anyone that can be certified as from a Missile and no DAMAGE to the TENT etc etc.

I'd agree it would have to be a large missile - the Burya and ICBMs were 100 tons or more. Remember there's the radiation to eplain.

The narrative requires an extensive cleanup. They checked the area with metal detectors after the tent was found commanded by a Lt Colonel. The snow rings allude to the use of helicopters. The tent did suffer a broken ski pole. The tent was damaged by a rescuer's ice pick because the snow on top of the tent was so hard as was the surrounding area.
The footsteps have to be explained :-

 

[Nigel Evans]

Remember the clothes had a purple glow? Hydrazine reacts with nickel to produce a purple compound. Now they were visiting derelict mines and Yudin was collecting geological samples (maybe that's why his back hurt :). So it's an avenue.

[sarapuk]

Remember the clothes had a purple glow? Hydrazine reacts with nickel to produce a purple compound. Now they were visiting derelict mines and Yudin was collecting geological samples (maybe that's why his back hurt :). So it's an avenue.

Henrietta Churkina, an expert on fabrics, says that they noticed a purple glow. But how many clothes  !  ?

[Tim]

 Hi Nigel, the effects on Hydrazine on a human is not the same as LSD and unless there is a comprehensive study I'm not aware of instead of cancer is the result let me know.  However  to further any theory any farther is like multiplying zero times one and getting one as an answer. The logical and only explanation is,  Not even the former Soviet Union or the United States would ever launch in the worst conditions possible to where all data would be blown so far away and lost. Most of the hydrazine would of been burned up in an explosion not to mention once exposed to water(snow) it would turn to hydrogen and oxygen....The clothing probably can be attributed to a  cheaper dye exposed to the harsh elements through time. Many things glow under a black light, put some visine eye drops in your eyes and look at it under a black light.  best Tim.

[Nigel Evans]

Remember the clothes had a purple glow? Hydrazine reacts with nickel to produce a purple compound. Now they were visiting derelict mines and Yudin was collecting geological samples (maybe that's why his back hurt :). So it's an avenue.

Henrietta Churkina, an expert on fabrics, says that they noticed a purple glow. But how many clothes  !  ?

Criminalist Churkina recalled that when she stripped the corpses off and hung their clothes up on the ropes during the autopsy in May 1959, she immediately noticed a strange light purple hue in all of the garments. Vozrozhdenny and Churkina thought that the clothing might have been treated with some chemical. Churkina's comment made some investigators believe that this chemical was rocket fuel; some fuel components are very harmful for humans; they could have caused clouding of reasoning in the tourists and eventual deaths. In our opinion, the clothes could acquire the purple hue due to prolonged exposure to water, and the rocket fuel not in anyway was affiliated with this.

Lobatcheva, Irina. Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secret (pp. 104-105). Parallel Worlds' Books. Kindle Edition.

[Nigel Evans]

Hi Nigel, the effects on Hydrazine on a human is not the same as LSD, yes but there do seem to be effects on mental capacity, but blindness would be the bigger concern, hence they just lay down and died. and unless there is a comprehensive study I'm not aware of instead of cancer is the result let me know.  However  to further any theory any farther is like multiplying zero times one and getting one as an answer. The logical and only explanation is,  Not even the former Soviet Union or the United States would ever launch in the worst conditions possible to where all data would be blown so far away and lost. Most of the hydrazine would of been burned up in an explosion not to mention once exposed to water(snow) it would turn to hydrogen and oxygen.... there missile theory seems to need multiple events, 1. reason to cut slits, 2. cause of exit from tent (broken ski pole) 3. one half of group seriously injured during descent, 4. YuriD's edema possibly caused by exposure to hydrazine whilst up the cedar, could be hypothermia but the orange powder on his jumper alludes to nitric acid and hence rocket fuel.  The clothing probably can be attributed to a  cheaper dye exposed to the harsh elements through time. Many things glow under a black light, but this was ordinary daylight?  put some visine eye drops in your eyes and look at it under a black light.  best Tim.

[Tim]

Hydrazine is not hydrolyzed but easily oxidized  by dissolved oxygen in the aquatic (snow) environment and degraded. Steel oxidized turns to rust.

[Nigel Evans]

Hydrazine is not hydrolyzed but easily oxidized  by dissolved oxygen in the aquatic (snow) environment and degraded. Would this warm the snow? Steel oxidized turns to rust.

[Tim]

A scientist or private detective would not give this theory any credence. Too many variables have to come together at a precise moment and an inhaling of the correct dosage for all tourists for this to become viable.  Weather and the perfect storm of bad luck caused their deaths starting with the only reason to cut yourself bout if a tent is because something is on top of you prohibiting the use of the entrance.  The snow wall collapse caused by one if the hikers is the only possible theory that is worth pursuing as nonsensical it may seem. The wind blew all the evidence away except for the snow at the entrance which was smoothed out by the wind hiding the evidence of a snow wall cave in. The chunks of snow is solid evidence sitting on the tent is telling us the story. Best Tim

[Nigel Evans]

A scientist or private detective would not give this theory any credence. Too many variables have to come together at a precise moment and an inhaling of the correct dosage for all tourists for this to become viable.  Weather and the perfect storm of bad luck caused their deaths starting with the only reason to cut yourself bout if a tent is because something is on top of you prohibiting the use of the entrance.  The snow wall collapse caused by one if the hikers is the only possible theory that is worth pursuing as nonsensical it may seem. The wind blew all the evidence away except for the snow at the entrance which was smoothed out by the wind hiding the evidence of a snow wall cave in. The chunks of snow is solid evidence sitting on the tent is telling us the story. Best Tim

and the footsteps?
 

[Tim]

Could you be more specific about the footprint, and to point to some evidence never investigated about my theory Atmanki said, " the tourists dug out and stacked snow that blew away and covered the foot prints around the tent which is the first hard evidence of a snow wall that was built.  No one ever considered this snow exact snow wall meant to protect them actually fell on them, cutting and digging their way through the tent and then the snow only to have it fall back down sealing off any access to their gear. More additional snow may have fallen. Now they have to remove all the snow to get back in. An impossible task in subzero weather but survivable in normal winter weather...sorry for going on about my theory but I cannot debunk it like I can all the others put out there. Best Time

[Nigel Evans]

Could you be more specific about the footprint, the footprints suggest the snow was significantly warmer. Attempts to reproduce them in subsequent winter expeditions have always failed. You can't harden the snow at say -20C like that just by walking on it. and to point to some evidence never investigated about my theory Atmanki said, " the tourists dug out and stacked snow that blew away and covered the foot prints around the tent which is the first hard evidence of a snow wall that was built.  No one ever considered this snow exact snow wall meant to protect them actually fell on them, cutting and digging their way through the tent and then the snow only to have it fall back down sealing off any access to their gear. More additional snow may have fallen. Now they have to remove all the snow to get back in. An impossible task in subzero weather but they could dig a den a mile away without access to equipment in the tent? but survivable in normal winter weather...sorry for going on about my theory but I cannot debunk it like I can all the others put out there. Your theory doesn't explain the slits, the footsteps, the injury profile, the inability to return to the tent for life saving clothing and footwear etc etc. Sorry it's a non starter. Best Time

[Tim]

I lived in the snow for 17 years wet snow for snow balls, dry snow for skiing.Wet snow is sticking all over the tourists. How is it you have never looked up, raised footprint images. You could of saved yourself a lot of time.
Explain to everyone ,precisely, how you know that Russian Scientists launched a rocket over the Ural Mountains Feb 1st or 2nd.1959. Glowing snow and raised footprints are not proof of anything . Can u produce any Soviet Documents explaining what test results they were  trying to achieve by launching into gale force winds. If you did find a document for a test that date it would read Postponed due to high winds not suitable for launch.  I watched the very first of Space Shuttle launch and others, and saw two satellite launches explode after lift off. When you live in Florida you come to know what weather is safe and what is not to launch in. Conditions have to be perfect even in 1959.  Cheers mate. Tim.

[Nigel Evans]

I lived in the snow for 17 years wet snow for snow balls, dry snow for skiing.Wet snow is sticking all over the tourists. No it isn't, look at the attached photo. How is it you have never looked up, raised footprint images. You could of saved yourself a lot of time.
Explain to everyone ,precisely, how you know that Russian Scientists launched a rocket over the Ural Mountains Feb 1st or 2nd.1959. Glowing snow and raised footprints are not proof of anything . Can u produce any Soviet Documents explaining what test results they were  trying to achieve by launching into gale force winds. According to Svetlana Oss the high winds were local to the mountain. Weather stations some distance away recorded nothing unusual. If you did find a document for a test that date it would read Postponed due to high winds not suitable for launch.  There were regular reports of lights crossing the sky in this period. Could be ball lightning, could be rockets. The authorities clearly don't want to discuss this matter. I watched the very first of Space Shuttle launch and others, and saw two satellite launches explode after lift off. When you live in Florida you come to know what weather is safe and what is not to launch in. Conditions have to be perfect even in 1959.  Cheers mate. Tim.

 

[Tim]

I know your joking that you do not see the man on the left and back packs covered in snow. If you don't see the snow our exchange if ideas come to an end my friend. Good luck Tim.

[Nigel Evans]

I know your joking that you do not see the man on the left and back packs covered in snow. If you don't see the snow our exchange if ideas come to an end my friend. Good luck Tim.

Two out of three people show no signs of wet snow at all imo. The backpack has collected some snow around the warmed straps. Given the rate at which graupel is hitting them I don't see wet snow.

[mja Mahé]

Good morning.

  I'm always with my theory about nazi ufo and I thought to the electromagnetic field.

  Please read this :

"Electromagnetic fields in the workplace

Electromagnetic fields can have consequences for the health of the worker. Their short-term effects can be: direct: heating of biological tissues, stimulation of the nervous system, etc. indirect: fire or explosion due to a spark or an electric arc, malfunction of electronic devices including active medical devices such as pacemakers, projection Metallic objects ... Sensory effects (such as dizziness, nausea, visual disturbances) without consequences for health can be felt at very low frequencies. However, these effects may have consequences for the safety of workers in certain work situations. To date, there is no scientific consensus regarding long-term effects due to low but regular exposure."

Source : http://www.inrs.fr/risques/champs-electromagnetiques/ce-qu-il-faut-retenir.html

 

[Nigel Evans]

Good morning.

  I'm always with my theory about nazi ufo and I thought to the electromagnetic field.

  Please read this :

"Electromagnetic fields in the workplace

Electromagnetic fields can have consequences for the health of the worker. Their short-term effects can be: direct: heating of biological tissues, stimulation of the nervous system, etc. indirect: fire or explosion due to a spark or an electric arc, malfunction of electronic devices including active medical devices such as pacemakers, projection Metallic objects ... Sensory effects (such as dizziness, nausea, visual disturbances) without consequences for health can be felt at very low frequencies. However, these effects may have consequences for the safety of workers in certain work situations. To date, there is no scientific consensus regarding long-term effects due to low but regular exposure."

Source : http://www.inrs.fr/risques/champs-electromagnetiques/ce-qu-il-faut-retenir.html

 

Yes I've made similar statements on the real ball lightning thread but this one is about hydrazine?

[sarapuk]

Remember the clothes had a purple glow? Hydrazine reacts with nickel to produce a purple compound. Now they were visiting derelict mines and Yudin was collecting geological samples (maybe that's why his back hurt :). So it's an avenue.

Henrietta Churkina, an expert on fabrics, says that they noticed a purple glow. But how many clothes  !  ?

Criminalist Churkina recalled that when she stripped the corpses off and hung their clothes up on the ropes during the autopsy in May 1959, she immediately noticed a strange light purple hue in all of the garments. Vozrozhdenny and Churkina thought that the clothing might have been treated with some chemical. Churkina's comment made some investigators believe that this chemical was rocket fuel; some fuel components are very harmful for humans; they could have caused clouding of reasoning in the tourists and eventual deaths. In our opinion, the clothes could acquire the purple hue due to prolonged exposure to water, and the rocket fuel not in anyway was affiliated with this.

Lobatcheva, Irina. Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secret (pp. 104-105). Parallel Worlds' Books. Kindle Edition.

Interesting. I doubt that prolonged exposure to water would have caused ALL of the clothing to become purple. Something else to ponder.