August 10, 2020, 01:13:06 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Lev was correct, The tent is the answer.  (Read 2006 times)

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March 25, 2020, 11:20:07 AM
Reply #30
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David Harper


If the stove wasn't being used why was there an exhaust duct protruding from the tent? Did they install it out of habit? The footprints leading away from the tent were barefoot. Or in socks. Or with one shoe on.
I can see I'm wasting my time here. I guess Yeti or fireballs from space or some stupid conspiracy theory are a more plausible explanation than mine.
Good Bye.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 11:41:26 AM by David Harper »

March 25, 2020, 11:44:00 AM
Reply #31
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Nigel Evans


If the stove wasn't being used why was there an exhaust duct protruding from the tent? Did they install it out of habit? The footprints leading away from the tent were barefoot. Or in socks. Or with one shoe on.
I can see I'm wasting my time here. I guess Yeti or fireballs from space or some stupid conspiracy theory are a more plausible explanation than mine.
Good Bye.
I've a soft spot for "Teleportation - it's all highly technical but possible"..

March 25, 2020, 12:28:17 PM
Reply #32
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MDGross


David, The great thing about this forum is that it provides a platform for a lively exchange of ideas. There are many folks and many discussions here. But I don't believe anyone has said "my theory is correct; end of story." If you're interested in trying to unravel one of the mystifying events of the 20th century, I encourage you to hang around. Thanks to the tireless work of this web site's founder, Teddy, you can find more information about the Dyatlov Pass Incident than anywhere else. But even Teddy doesn't claim to have all the answers.
There are a number of scenarios that do an admirable job of answering what happened and why. But questions arise with every theory. Please don't take any comments personally. 

March 25, 2020, 03:11:52 PM
Reply #33
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neni_cesty_zpet


I still believe that this case can be cracked if some new information is found, either on the site of accident or in some secret archive. Or by using time machine if mankind ever invent such thing.

Subject title states that Ten is the answer. I dont see any answer there. I dont see any reason why leave it in barefoot.  What came to my idea that they came out to immediately help to someone else
who was outside and facing danger, possibly screaming. But it doesnt really fit. According to footprints, it looks like they were wandering, like sleepwalkers, not running to save someone's life near
the treeline or elsewhere...

I'd say from footprints that descent was slow.  Two Youris sprinting, as some suggest? I dont see any footprints that support that.
I also noticed that some were wearing valenki. I read article on Wikipedia on valenkis and it seems adequate foot protection in near zero/under zero temperatures for moderate time,
even without galoshes protection.
It's also written there that: "or they are worn by one and all in a severe frost, when other shoes don’t protect from the cold."
I'd say that that that one can put on valenkis really quicky and they're quite warm in sub-zero temperatures. I'd like to read opinion on valenkis from someone who actually wears them -
any russians on this forum?

For me, they were in one of these three conditions when walking downhill:

1) Wound, unable to move fast.

2) Forced to go down without proper clothing, possibly with machineguns pointing to their back, but what human beast would give such order, why? Did they unfortunately discover western spies?
In such remote/hostile site?

3) In state of some delirium cause by some atmospheric events. Then I'd rather expect scene similar to Korovina group - everyone behaved more or less randomly, but they all wandered down in this case,
quite uniform behaviour.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 03:43:49 PM by neni_cesty_zpet »

March 26, 2020, 07:51:01 AM
Reply #34
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MDGross


In regard to your second point ("machine-guns pointing to their backs") here's a possible scenario, though I emphasize that it is completely speculative: KGB agents and Soviet soldiers arrive on the evening of Feb. 1 by helicopter. One or more of the hikers is suspected of wanting to pass secrets to the CIA. Several hikers are outside the tent watching what's happening, and the KGB orders the hikers inside the tent to come out. They are poorly dressed, though Dyatlov has managed to grab his coat. Slobodin pulls his knife from its sheath and lunges at the soldiers. He's struck on each side of his head by rifle butts. Dyatlov also makes a move and is slammed in the abdomen causing an amount of blood to gather in his stomach. He is also ordered to drop his coat that was later found by searchers. Slobodin's knife sheath is later found, but not the knife. For whatever reason, the KGB is under orders to simply let the winter environment "execute" the hikers and orders them to march to the trees. Perhaps some in the government didn't want the KGB to implicated in the deaths. KBG and soldiers return to the protection of the helicopter while waiting for the hikers to freeze to death. Five of them die within an hour or so. Dyatlov vomits the blood in his stomach as he dies. Slobodin is later found with fractures to both sides of his skull. Soldiers are ordered to check on the hikers. Surprisingly, four are found alive in a snow den. They are ordered out and receive rifle butts to the head, ribs and neck. Then they are pushed down into the ravine that's a few feet away from the snow den. Once everyone is dead, the helicopter leaves.

March 26, 2020, 09:56:20 AM
Reply #35
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neni_cesty_zpet


Attack from "air" by using helicopter can explain lack of attacker's footsteps. But who would do such risky task, KGB? Why risk flying helicopter in remote area at night?
One would expected them to spend night under trees, invisible to helicopters...Doing helicopter search in the middle of night seems like searching needle in the thread.

If KBG suspected them of something then it would be much more convenient to "pick them up" in Ivdel and transfer them for interrogation in warm office.

I dont see any reason why would KGB do this. I cannot believe that.


March 26, 2020, 01:20:07 PM
Reply #36
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MDGross


I don't support the scenario myself. I just offered it as an example of how the KGB could have been responsible for the deaths and not be implicated. Did it happen? Probably not. KGB involvement depends on if one of the hikers wanted to pass secrets to Soviet agents of the CIA. There's no proof that any of the hikers was trying to do this. So it's most likely that nothing like this scenario happened. But when every theory is speculation, nothing can be ruled out. I don't believe in Yeti, but some people who live in northern Siberia claimed to have seen one. I don't believe in UFOs. But, again, people who lived there reported seeing bright lights in the sky more than once.

July 03, 2020, 01:01:53 PM
Reply #37
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RidgeWatcher


I have a few questions: I do believe the tent is the answer because that is where the mystery begins. I have yet to understand that logic of some members not believing that the tent is important.

"Local Native tribes avoided the peak and never ventured there. In the native tongue of the Mansi the literal translation of the name of the pass is "don't go there". David Harper March 23, 2020:

1) If the Mansi called the mountain Kholat Syaklul, because the game numbers and hunting were historically bad then why did the Dyaatlov hikers see and photograph Sammy signs of the Mansi hunters?

2) I believe while building the cache and platform that it was business as usual. I do think that the photo of the man behind the tree must have been taken after the cache building but before the last climb up to the pass. I believe this is the most important reason why the group didn't follow an already skied trail black down to the cache where they knew there would be life sustaining supplies.

3) Most of the worlds fireworks were/are made in China, I was wondering if the Mansi or ex-Zeks could have used 1/3, 1/2 or even 1 stick of dynamite to herd the Dyatlov skiers down towards the north tree line. The group would know they weren't bombs or rifles so they may have walked down towards the cedar tree-line scared but not rushing in terror?

4) valenkas: are very similar to the linings inside Sorel boots, you could take them out and wear them but one wet and refrozen they would lose any insulating properties fast. They are very much like Mongolian yak socks (my favorite).
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 02:42:46 PM by RidgeWatcher »

July 08, 2020, 04:58:48 PM
Reply #38
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The tent/camp site is important, but much of the evidence was spoiled.  The three theories I like in increasing order of weirdness are:

1, Natural events lead to their deaths
2. Nuclear or chemical test with the hikers in the wrong place at the wrong time
3.  Some kind of Yeti

These are not in any particular order of preference.

Note that if the hikers had been exposed to lethal levels of radiation, they would not have died immediately.  It could take hours, but during this time their bodies would start to shut down and this could have significant affect on their mental abilities, vision, pain levels, and immune systems.  They could have succumb to infection/sepsis within hours.  It could explain the strange behaviour of the hikers.

Regards

Star man

July 12, 2020, 09:24:09 PM
Reply #39
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NightLurker


Um... NOPE...

New here but I have to differ with you, in the highest regards...

I agree the TENT is where it all started, but it did not become the ending. If there were "high winds" then the tent would have been toppled and the guide posts would have as well. As the photos prove, both posts are STILL there and pointing straight to the sky. Sure, the middle was a bit caved in because of snow, but then again, this tent was actually TWO tents sewn together, and no center post to keep it up. As for the front of door of the tent, which there was only ONE door, (the other end closed off) Are you suggesting these EXPERIENCED hikers and skiers have no idea what they are doing?

I do think that sure, a back door is important, but that is not how it was designed (two tents sewn together).

Then again, maybe there was a back door, we have no idea.

What we do KNOW is that if the front door was indeed blocked by snow why were two people hanging out OUTSIDE of the tent apparently unable to get back in?

Don't you think they would have said something?

The only way out was through the sides if the door was blocked. Cut themselves out. Apparently it was an emergency situation and time is of the
essence. No two ways about that.

If it were an AVALANCHE as a theory proposes, they would have ran like crazy, but footprints tell a different story, even a month old. They WALKED down to the valley below... WALKED.

Had the tent been blown apart, as you suggest, why was the tent STILL intact except for the escape doors made by the occupants? You saw the pics, it was STILL there.

They HAD to leave. they were FORCED to leave for a reason. They would have stuck by the tent and saved it instead of walking a mile, IN THE SNOW in -20 degree weather, with hardly any clothes and start a fire under a cedar tree.

Now you may believe that they left the tent under those circumstances but it is very doubtful.

I appreciate your post and I am sorry if I may have offended you. Take gentle care my friend.


July 13, 2020, 11:43:47 AM
Reply #40
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Um... NOPE...

New here but I have to differ with you, in the highest regards...

I agree the TENT is where it all started, but it did not become the ending. If there were "high winds" then the tent would have been toppled and the guide posts would have as well. As the photos prove, both posts are STILL there and pointing straight to the sky. Sure, the middle was a bit caved in because of snow, but then again, this tent was actually TWO tents sewn together, and no center post to keep it up. As for the front of door of the tent, which there was only ONE door, (the other end closed off) Are you suggesting these EXPERIENCED hikers and skiers have no idea what they are doing?

I do think that sure, a back door is important, but that is not how it was designed (two tents sewn together).

Then again, maybe there was a back door, we have no idea.

What we do KNOW is that if the front door was indeed blocked by snow why were two people hanging out OUTSIDE of the tent apparently unable to get back in?

Don't you think they would have said something?

The only way out was through the sides if the door was blocked. Cut themselves out. Apparently it was an emergency situation and time is of the
essence. No two ways about that.

If it were an AVALANCHE as a theory proposes, they would have ran like crazy, but footprints tell a different story, even a month old. They WALKED down to the valley below... WALKED.

Had the tent been blown apart, as you suggest, why was the tent STILL intact except for the escape doors made by the occupants? You saw the pics, it was STILL there.

They HAD to leave. they were FORCED to leave for a reason. They would have stuck by the tent and saved it instead of walking a mile, IN THE SNOW in -20 degree weather, with hardly any clothes and start a fire under a cedar tree.

Now you may believe that they left the tent under those circumstances but it is very doubtful.

I appreciate your post and I am sorry if I may have offended you. Take gentle care my friend.

Very well put. Good to see a lot of thought being put into a Topic.
DB

July 15, 2020, 04:50:15 PM
Reply #41
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
assuming that there were no other people there, then the events at the tent can only be explained if the cognitive abilities of pretty much all of the hikers had been affected by something.  This could have been one of a variety of things including:

Panic due to some significant and immediate threat
Poisons/chemicals/radiation
Infrasound

Regards

Star man

July 16, 2020, 09:23:35 AM
Reply #42
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Ting


How many blankets reached the Cedar tree ?
How many dropped blankets were found outside the tent ?
I do not see evidence of any blankets outside the tent. Why not ?
Theory: "You didn't have time to get your blanket or you couldn't find it in the panic !"
Reality: "But I was IN my warm blanket, it wasn't hard to find or hold on to once I knew I was going outside without my shoes and coat !"
Theory: "There was at least 7 of us cutting the tent simultaneously, blankets just got in the way !"
Reality: "Oh I thought only one or two of you had knives that you escaped the tent with."
Theory: "You couldn't carry the blanket through the cuts in the tent because it was too awkward and cumbersome !"
Reality: "Yes you're right no one could have managed getting their warm blanket outside the tent - such a feat ! That would be a grade 4 level achievement and we were only progressing toward level 3."
So any ideas why no blankets made it outside ? 
Maybe it wasn't bedtime and the blankets were all stored by the wet shoes and coats ?
I think I would have my blanket by me 2 hours after tent set up.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 09:35:17 AM by Ting »

July 16, 2020, 10:34:02 AM
Reply #43
Online

RidgeWatcher


Welcome Ting,

So are you suggesting that the Dyatlov group was:

1) Gassed out of their tent.
2) Ordered at gunpoint out.
3) Were somehow scared out of their tent
4) That they were attacked in the morning, possibly the attackers spent the night near the cache and then climbed up the pass, saw the tent and then attacked.

The food debris left in the tent and later the stomach content would indicate that the attack occurred in the evening.
But you have some very interesting questions regarding the blankets. What do you think happened?

July 16, 2020, 02:18:32 PM
Reply #44
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Ting


Thanks for the welcome RidgeWatcher.

I do not fully subscribe to a theory as yet.
Just trying to stimulate new kinds of questions.

In response to the 4 ideas.
1) Gassed
To flee the tent through large holes the gas would either need to cause some noxious effect or be noticeable and give the perception of being dangerous.
If I escaped a gas filled tent via large holes I would either be on my knees feet away trying to regain my breath or I would be wondering if it was a flammable gas and be standing 40 feet away waiting for it to ignite. I would expect strange looks if I suggested a 1,500 metre retreat.
After discussing with 8 others in no longer than 10 minutes or so I would surely come to the conclusion that either the gas would have dissipated through the substantial increase in ventilation or that I could take the ski sticking out of the ground and waft the flaps a little to help matters along. In either case I am returning to the tent to retrieve what I needed. 
So gassing seems unlikely.
2) Ordered out at gunpoint.
Outside attackers theory has many permutations. What kind of attack ?
Unintentional killing? Kill a particular target? Intent to kill all? Intent to find out information then kill all? To locate key items then kill? Theft ? Kill for sport ?
If your mission is just to kill the 9 tourists but make it look like an accident what options do you have ? I suggest you wait for the minimum number of people to be outside the tent then set fire to the tent in the location of the entrance. Warm yourself by the fire and make a few evidence tampering manoeuvres with the stove afterwards. If your mission is to retrieve some important piece of information or item then torture first and fire as described above second. Theft is unlikely unless the item taken is something we don't know about. If you needed to eliminate a particular target you would identify then isolate them - night time would not be ideal for this kind of mission. To kill for sport you might give the tourists a chance to escape but give them a disadvantage - if you are confident enough to allow the tourists to escape you are probably comfortable with the environment so it would be logical that you would be confident to cover your tracks providing you left any. 
3) Scared out of tent.
Seems likely. Being scared by avalanche or snowslab slip or snow wall collapse appears plausible except how long would it take to react/grab a knife/complete cutting of tent and everyone evacuate ? At minimum I would suggest 2-3 minutes. Well I wouldn't like to give any kind of avalanche a 2-3 minute headstart on me. Being scared by attackers - Ask yourself what would you do if you were an attacker and you wanted a group of people to get out of the tent before they could arm themselves ? 
4) Morning attack
As you suggested the food debris and stomach contents indicate evening.

Is there any consensus as to how long it would take to walk down to the Cedar tree from the tent taking into account the strong wind/poor visibility/gradient/rocky outcrops/lack of appropriate footwear/iciness of the snow and temperatures around -30 celsius (according to Russian findings)? My estimate would be 45-60 minutes. I am impressed how none of the 9 left any signs of falling in the snow for the first part of the downward journey. 

July 16, 2020, 04:14:53 PM
Reply #45
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
How many blankets reached the Cedar tree ?
How many dropped blankets were found outside the tent ?
I do not see evidence of any blankets outside the tent. Why not ?
Theory: "You didn't have time to get your blanket or you couldn't find it in the panic !"
Reality: "But I was IN my warm blanket, it wasn't hard to find or hold on to once I knew I was going outside without my shoes and coat !"
Theory: "There was at least 7 of us cutting the tent simultaneously, blankets just got in the way !"
Reality: "Oh I thought only one or two of you had knives that you escaped the tent with."
Theory: "You couldn't carry the blanket through the cuts in the tent because it was too awkward and cumbersome !"
Reality: "Yes you're right no one could have managed getting their warm blanket outside the tent - such a feat ! That would be a grade 4 level achievement and we were only progressing toward level 3."
So any ideas why no blankets made it outside ? 
Maybe it wasn't bedtime and the blankets were all stored by the wet shoes and coats ?
I think I would have my blanket by me 2 hours after tent set up.

I think the answer to the blanket question could be that they were forced out of the tent and not allowed any clothing or equipment ( which I don't subscribe to), or they panicked and left without their clothing, equipment and blankets, or their cognitive function was affected by something and they were not thinking straight.

Regards

Star man

July 16, 2020, 07:03:59 PM
Reply #46
Online

Georgi


assuming that there were no other people there, then the events at the tent can only be explained if the cognitive abilities of pretty much all of the hikers had been affected by something.  This could have been one of a variety of things including:

Panic due to some significant and immediate threat
Poisons/chemicals/radiation
Infrasound

Regards

Star man
Problem with that theory is that all 9 of the hikers would have to be affected in the exact same way at the exact same time and come up with the exact same solution. For example infrasound has multiple effects, what are the chances that all 9 hikers that ranged in age between 20 and 37 and had both sexes would react the exact same way?


July 17, 2020, 04:15:40 PM
Reply #47
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
assuming that there were no other people there, then the events at the tent can only be explained if the cognitive abilities of pretty much all of the hikers had been affected by something.  This could have been one of a variety of things including:

Panic due to some significant and immediate threat
Poisons/chemicals/radiation
Infrasound

Regards

Star man
Problem with that theory is that all 9 of the hikers would have to be affected in the exact same way at the exact same time and come up with the exact same solution. For example infrasound has multiple effects, what are the chances that all 9 hikers that ranged in age between 20 and 37 and had both sexes would react the exact same way?

I agree that at least most of them would need to have been affected in a similar way.  I think the infrasound version requires more evidence.  Sound recording equipment that gathers data during similar weatger conditions to that on the night of the incident.

Regards

Star man