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Author Topic: Injuries, clothing and belongings to Dyatlov group  (Read 1301 times)

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April 29, 2020, 10:27:35 AM
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Teddy

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Listed in the order they were found. The author is  Olesya Molchanova


Doroshenko belongings:
- Staple short-sleeved blue checkered shirt
- T-shirt sleeveless knitted greenish color
- Panties and swimming trunks satin blue
- Blue torn knitted underpants
- On the left leg are two pairs of knitted light brown socks with tears, woolen white socks burnt
- On the right leg tatter form a cotton sock,and a white woolen sock



Krivonischneko belongings:
- Blue checkered cotton shirt in red-black pattern
- Cotton worn white shirt
- White pants made of Grisbon material torn and charred in places
- Blue satin swimming trunks
- On the left foot, the toe of a cotton sock is torn and in some places charred
- In the outer pocket of his checkered shirt is a ball of copper wire and a silk pink ribbon



Dyatlov belongings:
- Fur jacket sleeveless coated with cotton blue material on dark gray fur
- Blue vigone Sweater
- Cotton red checkered shirt in a dark-gray pattern
- Blue knitted vest
- Ski trousers in brown knitted with fleece on an elastic band
- Blue-green cotton sweatpants with elastic
- Black satin briefs
- On the right leg is a woolen white sock, cotton brown sock
- On the left foot, a cotton brown knee sock
- On the left forearm in the lower third is a wristwatch “Zvezda”, time 5:31

In the pocket of the checkered shirt:
- Packing "Streptocid" 4 tablets



Kolmogorova belongings:
- Red wool cap tied on a chin on a bow
- Blue wool knitted hat attached to her hair with a hairpin
- Blue wool sweater, the left cuff is torn off, dressed inside out
- Cotton checkered shirt black-green-red pattern
- Light red vigone sweater with a blue transverse strip, dressed inside out
- Knitted T-shirt with a long sleeve of blue color
- Black satin bra
- Black ski pants from a torn bike
- Blue cotton sports pants with pockets
- Pants with elastic
- Ladies knitted breeches with blue fleece
- Ladies cotton black bodysuit with elastic
- Swimming trunks cotton black
- Woolen brown socks with fur insoles, blue and brown vigone socks

Under the checkered shirt:
- Military mask
In trousers:
- Comb with 2 broken teeth
- Boot lace black



Slobodin belongings:
- Black cotton sweater
- Checkered shirt black-red pattern
- Knitted shirt patched
- Blue long-sleeved jersey
- Dark ski pants
- Blue satin sweatpants
- Warm light gray pants with fleece, a pair of shirts
- Blue Satin Briefs
- 2 felt insoles
- On the right leg, black felt boot, cotton sock, gray vigone socks, cotton sock, vigone brown sock
- On the left leg the same, but without felt boots
- On the left hand there is a watch “Zvezda”, time 8:45

In the pocket of a cowboy found:
- Passport
- 310 rubles
- Ink fountain pen
In trouser pockets:
- Box of matches with 43 match sticks
- Penknife on a long rope
- Comb in a case
- Two ropes
- Pencil
- Cotton sock
In the pocket of satin trousers:
- Letter from the trade union committee dated January 20, 1959



Dubinina belongings:
- Knitted under helmet cap
- Woolen taupe sweater well-worn
- Beige wool sweater
- Checkered colored shirt
- Yellow short-sleeved T-shirt
- White cotton bra
- Torn cotton pants are dark with a belt on an elastic band, trousers are very torn and in some places burned
- Black cotton tights torn in the crotch, in the belt area with an elastic
- Legs light brown cotton stockings
- Gray ladies' belt with garterbands
- Men's satin briefs
- The left leg - the partly lower leg and foot area is wrapped in a gray woolen burnt flap from a sweater with a sleeve, a torn woolen brown sock.
- On both legs cotton blue torn socks, gray wool socks



Kolevatov belongings:
- Ski jacket from black boomazei with a torn zipper, some places burnt
- Brown fleece knitted sweater
- Gray worn sweater
- Cotton checkered shirt in blue-red-black pattern
- Wearable chemise with velvet, pale gray, worn
- Canvas khaki jumpsuit with elasticated straps
- Trousers with metal buckles with tears
- Ski trousers from a blue bike with side buckles
- Underpants pale gray color a pair of chemise
- Blue satin briefs
- Woolen dirty socks, white, home knitted with areas of burning
- On the right leg brown cotton socks
- On the left leg 3 brown cotton socks, under them on the ankle joint a gauze bandage

In the pockets of a checkered shirt:
- Safety pin fastening pocket
- The key from a door lock
- A piece of brown paper
- Packaging from the Codeine with Soda

In trouser pockets:
- Soaked box of matches
- Handkerchief



Thibeaux-Brignolle belongings:
- A woolen knitted green sports cap with three round holes is dressed and tightly tied on the head
- Khaki canvas tarpaulin fur hat with drawstring
- Canvas green fur jacket on a sheepskin, zipper, with two patched pockets
- Worn sweater, dressed inside out
- Blue well-worn knitted shirt that has damage to the right and bottom tears of an oval shape
- Cloth padded blue trousers, leather belt with a metal white buckle
- Almost new gray felt boots, white woolen knitted socks, brown woolen sock are crumpled on the feet and are in felt boots according to the insole
- Cotton blue sports pants
- Black satin briefs

There are two watches on his left hand:
- "Sportivnye" (Krivonischenko's), time 8:14:24
- "Pobeda", time 8:39

In a jacket:
- Woolen gloves
- Metal coins
- Two folded pieces of paper
- Hairbrush
In trousers:
- White button
- Metal chain from the wall clock



Zolotaryov belongings:
- Leather hat with ear flaps, black trimmed with black fur
- Sports woolen knitted hat of red color with three light stripes
- Brown and blue checkered woolen scarf with open pin, worn scarf
- Tourist mask made of bikes and green tarpaulin on the straps
- Fur vest on a black sheepskin, well-worn
- Brown sport jacket with buttons
- Black cotton sweater, slightly worn
- Sports cotton blue sleeved T-shirt
- Cotton jersey cherry-colored T-shirt
- Khaki canvas jumpsuit pants with two patch pockets
- Ripped button down blue ski pants with buttons
- The same pants with elastic bands
- Black quilted burqa
- Brown wool socks on both legs, on the left cotton sock, darned
- Gray cotton swimming trunks dressed inside out
- Blue satin briefs

In trouser pockets:
- Onion
- Coins
- Hairbrush
- Ball of thread
- Folded newspaper
- Pieces of newspaper

Compass on his left hand (worn like a wristwatch)




« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 01:43:40 AM by Teddy »

April 29, 2020, 12:23:45 PM
Reply #1
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
DB

April 29, 2020, 03:37:37 PM
Reply #2
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Nigel Evans


How does blondie know which injuries are pre / post mortem or immediately before death?
Psychic powers?
And why are Lyudmila and Semyon's chest fractures pre not immediately before death?

April 30, 2020, 01:35:03 AM
Reply #3

Ian Jones

Guest
Nigel.  Follow the link, 'Blondie', there is more material, charts and tables, that give information about injuries and healing times.
I would imagine these are her source.

April 30, 2020, 02:44:41 AM
Reply #4
Online

Nigel Evans


Nigel.  Follow the link, 'Blondie', there is more material, charts and tables, that give information about injuries and healing times.
I would imagine these are her source.
****'s translation is "left cuff interrupted". I have three independent translations of the autopsy, all of them using torn/interrupted, none of them use missing.

According to the pathologist Lyudmila died within minutes of the fractures.

I would expect wound behaviour to vary considerably depending on the cause. Abrasion, impulse, burn (heat/chemical) etc etc and we don't know the cause....



April 30, 2020, 03:07:57 AM
Reply #5
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Teddy

Administrator
If you see funny stuff like "left cuff interrupted" in my translations i.e. on dyatlovpass.com or my posts here could you please point it to me in a PM. I will fix it immaterially. I could use all the help you can give me.

April 30, 2020, 03:22:16 AM
Reply #6
Online

Nigel Evans


If you see funny stuff like "left cuff interrupted" in my translations i.e. on dyatlovpass.com or my posts here could you please point it to me in a PM. I will fix it immaterially. I could use all the help you can give me.
I have some but will pm you as i remember them.

"****"  kewl1

April 30, 2020, 04:16:33 AM
Reply #7
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sparrow


The site mentions that more injuries were found on Simon when he was exhumed later.  Why was he exhumed?

April 30, 2020, 05:16:37 AM
Reply #8
Online

Nigel Evans


The site mentions that more injuries were found on Simon when he was exhumed later.  Why was he exhumed?
https://dyatlovpass.com/zolotaryov-exhumation-3?rbid=18461

April 30, 2020, 04:06:15 PM
Reply #9
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Rtael


Awesome post! Easy to get caught up in the whole 'none of them were dressed properly' thing and forget that most of them were actually pretty well dressed - some of them pretty much completely equipped. But not all. The one boot on Rustem, the two watches on Nicholas - must be something in those but...

May 01, 2020, 01:47:56 AM
Reply #10
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Teddy

Administrator
I know it seems like a lot of clothing, but believe me - this is what you wear inside the tent. Nobody was dressed sufficiently to go outside the tent. Two of them were dressed good enough to pee, but not more than 20m away from the tent. They can't walk, run or abandon the tent in such state of undressing. This part is misleading albeit true. Most of the clothes were old and worn out. In general the materials were such that you need to have multiple layers, not like nowadays. The affair of dressing for the mountains back then was to take as many city clothes you can get your hands on, and wear them all together.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 09:24:14 AM by Teddy »

May 01, 2020, 09:10:53 AM
Reply #11
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MDGross


Thanks as always Teddy for the hard work. It seems strange that no scratches and abrasions were found on the four bodies found in the ravine. Either they never had any or they disappeared as their skin decomposed. The extent of injuries on each of them is frightening. I only hope that none of them suffered for any amount of time.

May 01, 2020, 11:25:43 PM
Reply #12
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sparrow


If one of the hikers had peed outside of the tent, wouldn't it have been covered by snow after several weeks?  The bodies were almost completely covered.

May 01, 2020, 11:57:36 PM
Reply #13
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sparrow


Thank you for the e-mail address Nigel.  I was also wondering if anyone has questioned why Zina's top 2 pairs of pants were undone? Was someone searching for something on only  her  or maybe wanting to use her clothes for warmth (like George and Yuri)?
More questions.  What happened to the part of George's pants that were cut off?  If there were burns on the pants that Lyuda was wearing, do they line up with George's burns on his legs?  There has been a question about the knife used on the cedar tree.  There was a knife mentioned among the kitchen utensils that they took with them and I do not remember seeing it mentioned on the list of things taken from the tent. My kitchen knives can be very sharp so maybe that is the knife they used not only on
the tree but also on George's pants and maybe even the tent.  One more thing.  In a book I have by Launton Anderson, the obituaries of Zina and Igor mention alcohol being found in their systems. If this is so, why does everyone say"not"?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2020, 12:32:13 AM by sparrow »

May 02, 2020, 12:24:57 AM
Reply #14
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Teddy

Administrator
If one of the hikers had peed outside of the tent, wouldn't it have been covered by snow after several weeks?  The bodies were almost completely covered.
I would think so!

May 02, 2020, 04:38:28 AM
Reply #15
Online

Nigel Evans


Thank you for the e-mail address Nigel.  I was also wondering if anyone has questioned why Zina's top 2 pairs of pants were undone? My theory is that she was dressed for bed and left under layers unbuttoned as it was more comfortable. If she died on the descent she wouldn't have had to adjust the layers. Was someone searching for something on only  her  or maybe wanting to use her clothes for warmth (like George and Yuri)?
More questions.  What happened to the part of George's pants that were cut off?  If there were burns on the pants that Lyuda was wearing, do they line up with George's burns on his legs? I think the clothing has been lost. There has been a question about the knife used on the cedar tree.  There was a knife mentioned among the kitchen utensils that they took with them and I do not remember seeing it mentioned on the list of things taken from the tent. My kitchen knives can be very sharp so maybe that is the knife they used not only on
the tree but also on George's pants and maybe even the tent. They had several knives, from memory three. One more thing.  In a book I have by Launton Anderson, the obituaries of Zina and Igor mention alcohol being found in their systems. If this is so, why does everyone say"not"? I haven't heard of this before. Kerosene contains alcohol so this would support the missile theory.

May 03, 2020, 01:20:12 AM
Reply #16
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sparrow


Why does everyone assume that Simon and Nickolas were the best dressed when they were apparently wearing clothes taken off Lyuda (hat and coat),Yuri and George.It appears that Lyuda,Yuri,  George and Zina may have been the best dressed upon leaving the tent.   

May 03, 2020, 02:26:58 AM
Reply #17
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Naufragia


This is such a helpful visualisation. And thanks for your commentary, Teddy. Pardon my ignorance, but what else would the hikers usually have had on to go outside? Ski pants such as Zoltaryov and Kolevatov were wearing and a coat or two? In addition to boots, hats and gloves.

May 03, 2020, 05:41:48 AM
Reply #18
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sparrow


I thought of a few more questions.  Why is Lyuda wearing torn and burned pants when there were two pair that did not seem to have anything wrong with them except the one pair that was cut?  Also why did not Igor or Rustem use the sweaters?  Were they already dead (or had  left cedar) by the time that George and Yuri were stripped?  Were one of the pairs of pants at the tree or
den Lyuda's?  After reading about this incident, I thought it would be easier to start trying to figure out some of the small stuff first,  then work my way up. I have often wondered, if you were to feed the facts (and only the known facts) into a computer, what kind of solution it would come up with?

May 03, 2020, 03:27:46 PM
Reply #19
Online

Nigel Evans


Why does everyone assume that Simon and Nickolas were the best dressed when they were apparently wearing clothes taken off Lyuda (hat and coat),Yuri and George.It appears that Lyuda,Yuri,  George and Zina may have been the best dressed upon leaving the tent.
It's incorrect that semyon was wearing two hats. None of the ravine 4 were found wearing hats. See the photos. Nicolai was wearing two watches because he was on watch so it's plausible that he was fully dressed.

May 03, 2020, 04:33:31 PM
Reply #20
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Useful summary of injuries, clothing and items. 

Does anyone have any information/idea on the length of the rib injuries.  Top to bottom on each side of Lyuda and the one side on Semyon?  There might be something useful in that.

Regards

Star man

May 04, 2020, 11:31:24 AM
Reply #21
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Tony



****'s translation is "left cuff interrupted". I have three independent translations of the autopsy, all of them using torn/interrupted, none of them use missing.

According to the pathologist Lyudmila died within minutes of the fractures.

I would expect wound behaviour to vary considerably depending on the cause. Abrasion, impulse, burn (heat/chemical) etc etc and we don't know the cause....

In the case file (sheet 382 & 383) the testimony of forensic expert Vozrozhdenny Boris Alekseevich states that Lyudmila died within 10-20 minutes of being injured. He also states that Zolotaryov could have lived longer and Thibeaux-Brignolle could have lived as long as 2-3 hours after his injury. This, along with the fact that none of the four in the ravine died of asphyxiation, almost certainly rules out their injuries being cause by collapsing snow.
"If there exists a fact which can only be thought of as sinister. A fact which can only point to some sinister underpinning, you will never be able to think up all the non-sinister, perfectly valid explanations for that fact."
- Josiah Thomson

May 04, 2020, 03:25:39 PM
Reply #22
Online

Nigel Evans



****'s translation is "left cuff interrupted". I have three independent translations of the autopsy, all of them using torn/interrupted, none of them use missing.

According to the pathologist Lyudmila died within minutes of the fractures.

I would expect wound behaviour to vary considerably depending on the cause. Abrasion, impulse, burn (heat/chemical) etc etc and we don't know the cause....

In the case file (sheet 382 & 383) the testimony of forensic expert Vozrozhdenny Boris Alekseevich states that Lyudmila died within 10-20 minutes of being injured. He also states that Zolotaryov could have lived longer and Thibeaux-Brignolle could have lived as long as 2-3 hours after his injury. This, along with the fact that none of the four in the ravine died of asphyxiation, almost certainly rules out their injuries being cause by collapsing snow.
Hi there. You make a good point about time to live versus no sign of asphyxiation.

Some thoughts.
  • You can breathe under the snow for minutes, maybe 20.
  • The den would have had an entrance and it is plausible that this provided a pathway for some air to reach them. Or there was an air pocket. The crushing force only needs to be 30cm wide. The den collapsing could have pushed the walls out creating a space.
  • If they were crushed by a tracked vehicle then it is a sensible proposition that it had some means of hiding it's tracks as none were observed. Perhaps this device freed up the snow after the main vehicle had passed.
  • The autopsies could be incorrect or decomposition/water ingress interfered with the findings. Many posters complain about the brevity of the autopsy reports, particularly lack of detail about Lyudmila's tongue.
Needless to say, i don't accept the question rules out the theory. But it's a good question.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 01:41:09 AM by Nigel Evans »

May 05, 2020, 04:38:26 AM
Reply #23
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sparrow


Nigel, regarding Simon wearing two hats; he was.  The autopsy mentioned a black one (I believed belonged to  Yuri) and a knit one.  Nicholas was also wearing two hats and Lyuda was wearing one( see Teddy's information above).


Zina's top  two pair of pants were undone.  She would not have been able to walk around like that.  She would have been tripping over them constantly.

May 05, 2020, 07:42:50 AM
Reply #24
Online

Nigel Evans


Nigel, regarding Simon wearing two hats; he was. As you say the autopsy mentions two hats. But the photos of the ravine four when found show no one was wearing a hat. Hence it is probable that they were collected and placed with the bodies for transport with no knowledge of who last wore what. Then the pathologist records the clothing associated with the body and everyone says "Semyon had two hats!".


Zina's top  two pair of pants were undone.  She would not have been able to walk around like that.  She would have been tripping over them constantly.You or i could run with our pants undone if our lives depended on it. Just one hand gripping the top parts would do it. Two hands would be easy. I like the theory that she expired during the descent and didn't have time to adjust her clothing.

May 06, 2020, 05:23:45 AM
Reply #25
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sparrow


Just experimenting to see if my computer will finally post. 

May 06, 2020, 05:05:40 PM
Reply #26
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Tony



****'s translation is "left cuff interrupted". I have three independent translations of the autopsy, all of them using torn/interrupted, none of them use missing.

According to the pathologist Lyudmila died within minutes of the fractures.

I would expect wound behaviour to vary considerably depending on the cause. Abrasion, impulse, burn (heat/chemical) etc etc and we don't know the cause....

In the case file (sheet 382 & 383) the testimony of forensic expert Vozrozhdenny Boris Alekseevich states that Lyudmila died within 10-20 minutes of being injured. He also states that Zolotaryov could have lived longer and Thibeaux-Brignolle could have lived as long as 2-3 hours after his injury. This, along with the fact that none of the four in the ravine died of asphyxiation, almost certainly rules out their injuries being cause by collapsing snow.
Hi there. You make a good point about time to live versus no sign of asphyxiation.

Some thoughts.
  • You can breathe under the snow for minutes, maybe 20.
  • The den would have had an entrance and it is plausible that this provided a pathway for some air to reach them. Or there was an air pocket. The crushing force only needs to be 30cm wide. The den collapsing could have pushed the walls out creating a space.
  • If they were crushed by a tracked vehicle then it is a sensible proposition that it had some means of hiding it's tracks as none were observed. Perhaps this device freed up the snow after the main vehicle had passed.
  • The autopsies could be incorrect or decomposition/water ingress interfered with the findings. Many posters complain about the brevity of the autopsy reports, particularly lack of detail about Lyudmila's tongue.
Needless to say, i don't accept the question rules out the theory. But it's a good question.

Good point - you could be right about surviving under snow for an extended period of time. But, I just can't see injuries of that magnitude occurring from a snow cave collapse. If it had been an enormous slab a snow that fell from a decent height, then yes. But snow shelters don't collapse as such. They tend to collapse in chunks and, while chunks of snow can weigh plenty, I doubt that the snow would have fallen from anything higher than a half meter. I did a fair amount of research regarding fatalities as a result of snow cave collapse and in every incident the fatality was cause by asphyxiation. Even with avalanches, 80% of the time the cause of death is asphyxiation.

Both Vozrozhdenny and the forensic pathologist that did the recent examination of Zolotaryov concluded that the force was instant (like a blast wave) and not a slow crushing type of force. I don't know if this rules out a track vehicle but, I think it could put it lower on the list of possibilities.
"If there exists a fact which can only be thought of as sinister. A fact which can only point to some sinister underpinning, you will never be able to think up all the non-sinister, perfectly valid explanations for that fact."
- Josiah Thomson

May 07, 2020, 03:11:37 AM
Reply #27
Online

Nigel Evans




Good point - you could be right about surviving under snow for an extended period of time. But, I just can't see injuries of that magnitude occurring from a snow cave collapse. If it had been an enormous slab a snow that fell from a decent height, then yes. But snow shelters don't collapse as such. They tend to collapse in chunks and, while chunks of snow can weigh plenty, I doubt that the snow would have fallen from anything higher than a half meter. I did a fair amount of research regarding fatalities as a result of snow cave collapse and in every incident the fatality was cause by asphyxiation. Even with avalanches, 80% of the time the cause of death is asphyxiation.

Both Vozrozhdenny and the forensic pathologist that did the recent examination of Zolotaryov concluded that the force was instant (like a blast wave) and not a slow crushing type of force. I don't know if this rules out a track vehicle but, I think it could put it lower on the list of possibilities.
As the roof collapsed a tracked vehicle would drop into a small crater "punching" anything underneath, have you seen this thread? - https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=398.90

May 07, 2020, 06:08:15 PM
Reply #28
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sparrow


Something that has been bothering me for awhile now was Lyuda's lack of pants.  The only pants she had on were George's.  There was one pair of pants at the tent and two at the den.  All the other pants were being worn.  So why was the only pair of pants she had on were George's?  She would have had on at least one pair of the pants found at the den.  So why didn't she?  That means she either gave up her one or two pair of pants willingly or was forced to.  And then, because she didn't have any pants, she put on George's.  Maybe that is why Zina's pants were undone also.

May 07, 2020, 06:37:54 PM
Reply #29
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sparrow


There were 21 pairs of pants amongst the nine hikers.  That is two to three pairs per person.  There is no scenario  that I can think of that she would not have had on at least one of the pair.  Why would she take off one or two pair of perfectly good pants just to replace them with George's tattered ones? If she died and then they removed them, why would they then take off George's pants and put them on Lyuda?