Tornado???

[hoosiergose]

Just wondering if a tornado could account for death of the hikers? If they heard one approaching the obvious choice would be to immediately seek shelter in the ravine. No time to gather or put on clothing.
However there is one fly in the oatmeal to this theory.....
According to the autopsy report Dyatlov appeared to have circular injuries around his ankles as if he had been bound or tied. If this happened then we can safely dismiss the severe weather theory. The evidence would then point to outside attackers. Or???? Did Dyatlovs fellow hikers bind him for some reason? It is interesting & curious to note that Igor Dyatlov suffered far less physical injuries than the majority of his fellow hikers.

[sarapuk]

Just wondering if a tornado could account for death of the hikers? If they heard one approaching the obvious choice would be to immediately seek shelter in the ravine. No time to gather or put on clothing.

Tornado Theory crops up occasionally in this Forum. Karmen Vortex is another Term used. But the Dyatlov Group would have been aware of the various weather phenomenon that occurred in that part of Siberia.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2549761/Were-nine-hardy-skiers-died-Siberian-snow-55-years-ago-driven-MAD-freak-wind-patterns-Author-claims-modern-weather-science-SOLVED-1959-Dyatlov-Pass-incident.html

[Morski]

There is no guarantee or evidence, that the group would have been aware of the different weather phenomenons or anomalies for that matter. Also, being aware is one thing, experiencing the effect/s in real life situation is another. We tend to easily presume, that the group was ultra-experienced so to say, as if there was nothing they can`t anticipate or could go wrong. Obviously this was not the case.

[sarapuk]

There is no guarantee or evidence, that the group would have been aware of the different weather phenomenons or anomalies for that matter. Also, being aware is one thing, experiencing the effect/s in real life situation is another. We tend to easily presume, that the group was ultra-experienced so to say, as if there was nothing they can`t anticipate or could go wrong. Obviously this was not the case.

Well its true they couldnt have expected what they encounted, but they would have had some idea of what the weather could throw at them in that region of Siberia.

[hoosiergose]

There is no guarantee or evidence, that the group would have been aware of the different weather phenomenons or anomalies for that matter. Also, being aware is one thing, experiencing the effect/s in real life situation is another. We tend to easily presume, that the group was ultra-experienced so to say, as if there was nothing they can`t anticipate or could go wrong. Obviously this was not the case.

Well its true they couldnt have expected what they encounted, but they would have had some idea of what the weather could throw at them in that region of Siberia.

To Sarapuk
Being aware of local weather is one thing - but tornados can form & appear quite suddenly- sometimes with very little warning & no time to react- sometimes a mere matter of seconds can mean the difference between life or death. I am very familiar with tornados as I have lived my entire life in tornado alley. They can descend upon you in the blink of an eye. One of the most destructive forces on the planet.
The scenario I suggest is that the hikers heard the approaching tornado (sound of a locomotive) bearing down on them (keep in mind it is dark and they could not see it, only hear it) - they promptly cut open and fled the tent and a few of them who suffered the most serious injuries were possibly hit by flying debris or picked up and slammed into the ground or trees. In their haste and in total darkness they may have inadvertently walked out in front of it or dangerously close.
BTW - a so called Karmin Vortex & a tornado are entirely two different things - two entirely different phenomenon.
A Karmin Vortex does not have the devastating power of a tornado. It can generate an infrasound, but not destroy buildings or uproot trees.

[hoosiergose]

There is no guarantee or evidence, that the group would have been aware of the different weather phenomenons or anomalies for that matter. Also, being aware is one thing, experiencing the effect/s in real life situation is another. We tend to easily presume, that the group was ultra-experienced so to say, as if there was nothing they can`t anticipate or could go wrong. Obviously this was not the case.

Well its true they couldnt have expected what they encounted, but they would have had some idea of what the weather could throw at them in that region of Siberia.

To Sarapuk
Being aware of local weather is one thing - but tornados can form & appear quite suddenly- sometimes with very little warning & no time to react- sometimes a mere matter of seconds can mean the difference in life or death. I am very familiar with tornados as I have lived my entire life in tornado alley. They can descend upon you in the blink of an eye. One of the most destructive forces on the planet.
The scenario I suggest is that the hikers heard the approaching tornado (sound of a locomotive) bearing down on them - they promptly fled the tent and a few of them who had the most serious injuries were hit by flying debris or picked up and slammed into the ground or trees. In there haste they may have inadvertently walked in front of it or very close.
BTW - a so called Karmin Vortex & a tornado are entirely two different things - two entirely different phenomenon.

[sarapuk]

There is no guarantee or evidence, that the group would have been aware of the different weather phenomenons or anomalies for that matter. Also, being aware is one thing, experiencing the effect/s in real life situation is another. We tend to easily presume, that the group was ultra-experienced so to say, as if there was nothing they can`t anticipate or could go wrong. Obviously this was not the case.

Well its true they couldnt have expected what they encounted, but they would have had some idea of what the weather could throw at them in that region of Siberia.

To Sarapuk
Being aware of local weather is one thing - but tornados can form & appear quite suddenly- sometimes with very little warning & no time to react- sometimes a mere matter of seconds can mean the difference between life or death. I am very familiar with tornados as I have lived my entire life in tornado alley. They can descend upon you in the blink of an eye. One of the most destructive forces on the planet.
The scenario I suggest is that the hikers heard the approaching tornado (sound of a locomotive) bearing down on them (keep in mind it is dark and they could not see it, only hear it) - they promptly cut open and fled the tent and a few of them who suffered the most serious injuries were possibly hit by flying debris or picked up and slammed into the ground or trees. In their haste and in total darkness they may have inadvertently walked out in front of it or dangerously close.
BTW - a so called Karmin Vortex & a tornado are entirely two different things - two entirely different phenomenon.
A Karmin Vortex does not have the devastating power of a tornado. It can generate an infrasound, but not destroy buildings or uproot trees.

Tornado doesnt explain the sequence of Events though.  Whats the Tornado doing to their Tent = NOTHING. Whats the Tornado doing to them as they walk a mile to the Treeline = NOTHING. Whats the Tornado doing while they climb a Tree and light a fire = Nothing. Whats the Tornado doing while they are at the Ravine = NOTHING.

[eurocentric]

Just wondering if a tornado could account for death of the hikers? If they heard one approaching the obvious choice would be to immediately seek shelter in the ravine. No time to gather or put on clothing.
However there is one fly in the oatmeal to this theory.....
According to the autopsy report Dyatlov appeared to have circular injuries around his ankles as if he had been bound or tied. If this happened then we can safely dismiss the severe weather theory. The evidence would then point to outside attackers. Or???? Did Dyatlovs fellow hikers bind him for some reason? It is interesting & curious to note that Igor Dyatlov suffered far less physical injuries than the majority of his fellow hikers.

A tornado is one of my 3 pet potential explanations for what happened, the other two being one of the hikers going rogue, and parachute bombs being dropped by the military to initiate avalanches/dislodge ice ahead of planned manouevres.

A tornado at altitude isn't as powerful or as long-lasting as one on the US plains, and they occur all over the northern hemisphere, but it could still easily injure or kill hikers if directly in its path, and would be particularly frightening at night where you might not be able to anticipate its direction of travel. Being thrown around or bowled over on a mountain slope will certainly produce some serious injuries, and there's plenty of rocks there, some jutting out of the snow, as shown in photo's of the site taken in summer. I also wonder if that's how one of the ski poles came to snap. It may also have lightning included which would frighten them even further in such an exposed place.

There doesn't seem to be much record online of injuries due to tornadoes on mountains, which are rarer events, but it seems studies of US lowland tornadoes mainly cause upper body injuries, head injuries and scratches from flying debris, and that generally describes the injuries the hikers all sustained. They also don't seem to have injuries to the back of their bodies or limbs, and someone would normally face into the wind, to face the danger and lean into it. Some of the hikers, eg Dyatlov's arm, have numerous scratches, and I could imagine him raising his arm to protect his eyes in such high winds.

By contrast an avalanche, the official finding, most often includes broken limbs and dislocations, though more so if skis and snowboards are attached which anchor in the avalanche. Crushing can occur if buried in deep snow, and of course suffocation, but that doesn't apply here.

It doesn't follow that the tent would be destroyed, if it didn't take a direct hit, and the weighty contents are semi-submerged in a trench cut into the snow, and behind a snow wall. The numerous slashings on the tent could even be interpreted not only as a means of rapid escape but also an emergency measure to stop it blowing away, it works to decompress that space, and it could be stitched up when the danger had passed. It's already two tents stitched together and they constantly had to repair it. There's mention of some tree tops being damaged, or 'burnt', which might be attributed to a tornado, such as the shedding of cedar needles or damage to the growing tip. A tornado on a mountain would cover the crime scene with resettled snow, leaving little clue it was ever there.

As regards Dyatlov's ankles, I think that most likely caused by him climbing trees at the cedars, and doing so without shoes, to obtain firewood. The back of his ankles press against the tree trunk, the front cross over each other tightly to adjust grip. Do that repeatedly and sores will develop.

[sparrow]

Somebody mentioned that the marks, on Igor's ankles, could have been made from the bindings they wore tied around their boots.

[Ting]

The evidence seems to suggest that a tornado is an unlikely factor in the Dyatlov incident.

Climatological information on Russian tornadoes was presented by Lyakhov (1986), Snitkovskii (1987), Vasiliev et al. (1985a), and Peterson (2000). These works reveal that the majority of tornadoes occur west of the Ural Mountains in western Russia. The tornado season there and in the adjacent republics of eastern Europe generally extends from late April to mid September, with a peak in June and July.
According to ‘Tornadoes in Europe: Synthesis of the Observational Datasets’
https://journals.ametsoc.org/mwr/article/144/7/2445/72310/Tornadoes-in-Europe-Synthesis-of-the-Observational
There are on average 0.005 tornadoes per 100km² per year (1 tornado per 200,000 km² per year) recorded in Russia in the 20th century.
Tornadoes in general tend to be diurnal and in Russia tend to occur between late afternoon and early evening.
Additionally, tornadoes tend to be less violent than North American counterparts.

[RidgeWatcher]

I have been in a tornado, in Kansas in 1997 and tornados usually need a much more flat terrain to get started and travel. The tent would be gone and the skis and poles would be gone. The searchers wouldn't have found the tent on the mountainside.

[sarapuk]

I have been in a tornado, in Kansas in 1997 and tornados usual need a much more flat terrain to get started and travel. The tent would be gone and the skis and poles would be gone. The searchers wouldn't have found the tent on the mountainside.

The Dyatlov Group would have probably been gone as well, instead of walking down that slope. 

[Nigel Evans]

In the case files there are observations of large diameter snow rings near the tent which would seem to be caused by circular air patterns. But i think a tornado theory would be an outlier, better would be a helicopter or karman vortex.

[eurocentric]

I have been in a tornado, in Kansas in 1997 and tornados usual need a much more flat terrain to get started and travel. The tent would be gone and the skis and poles would be gone. The searchers wouldn't have found the tent on the mountainside.

Usually, but there was the Teton-Yellowstone tornado in 1987 which travelled to 10,000ft up a mountain, and was the worst tornado ever recorded in Wyoming, ripping up millions of trees.

Smaller snownados, or snow devils, can occur more frequently, but these seem to need the heat of exposed black stones to soak up sunlight while the snow reflects it and these stones then create a warm updraft when the conditions are right, and that wouldn't apply at night.

If the numerous reports of orange orbs were in fact a rare meterological effect then who is to say this wasn't also an indicator of an equally rare wind, be it swirling or just suddenly gusting. Add some lightning as part of a freak weather event and they were very exposed.

[Nigel Evans]

The treeline branches facing uphill stripped of bark certainly fits with strong winds. Or chemicals.

[eurocentric]

It's generally assumed that the tent subsequently collapsed during the period before discovery, that wind and the weight from a build-up of snow caused that, which is a perfectly credible explanation, but then again the tent may have collapsed that night.

From the rescue photo it would appear they never got around to setting up the complex set of ridge ropes, which previously, when on a mountain level, involved no less than 3 ropes through the centre eyelet, with a 4th rope above to tension between skis, and double ski pole tent pegs to anchor to.

The tornado theory could see the better insulated Semyon and Tibo outside to set up the ropes, rather than being outside to relieve themselves, after which the stove, critical to ensuring the group's overnight survival and drying-out of clothes could be unpacked, supported and lit, to utilise the fuel they carried up a mountain.

Others would be inside, their own tasks completed, and were already changing out of wet clothing and shoes in anticipation of installing the stove, and this is the moment the tornado appears, and its sudden roar heard, and the rising wind sees the unsupported tent collapse on them, explaining the bizarre escape and all those random cuts. This makes more sense to me than all those slashes being needed for 7 people to leave a standing tent as quickly as possible.

You then have hikers leaving a tent after hearing the noise of a tornado nearby, they leave without clothing and shoes, the collapsed tent has covered everything they could otherwise grab, and when it's over they cannot see the tent because added to poor visibility it's either largely flattened and/or covered in a layer of resettled snow the tornado consumed and then deposited, turning the whole scene into one big whiteout.

That's the beauty of the tornado theory, what snow it sucks up has to come down when it fizzles out, and there may have been a lot of it, which later winds scoured away before the rescue party arrived.

It won't destroy the tent unless it directly hits it, this would be a vortex spout, not a hurricane.

[sarapuk]

In the case files there are observations of large diameter snow rings near the tent which would seem to be caused by circular air patterns. But i think a tornado theory would be an outlier, better would be a helicopter or karman vortex.

Glad you mentioned those Snow Circles. Any similarity between those and Crop Circles  ?  !  And what about those Cattle / Animal Mutilation Cases where witnesses have seen Beams of Light come down from the Sky and suck up the unfortunates  ?  ! 

[Marchesk]

I have been in a tornado, in Kansas in 1997 and tornados usual need a much more flat terrain to get started and travel. The tent would be gone and the skis and poles would be gone. The searchers wouldn't have found the tent on the mountainside.

Makes you wonder when someone would have happened across the bodies, which would likely be after the snow melt, and what the investigation would look like, and what sort of theories we'd be discussing without the original campsite evidence.

[Nigel Evans]

In the case files there are observations of large diameter snow rings near the tent which would seem to be caused by circular air patterns. But i think a tornado theory would be an outlier, better would be a helicopter or karman vortex.

Glad you mentioned those Snow Circles. Any similarity between those and Crop Circles  ?  !  And what about those Cattle / Animal Mutilation Cases where witnesses have seen Beams of Light come down from the Sky and suck up the unfortunates  ?  !

I think a vortex or helicopter would be my choice. But one possibility for the missile theory is that they had a target on radar.

[sarapuk]

In the case files there are observations of large diameter snow rings near the tent which would seem to be caused by circular air patterns. But i think a tornado theory would be an outlier, better would be a helicopter or karman vortex.

Glad you mentioned those Snow Circles. Any similarity between those and Crop Circles  ?  !  And what about those Cattle / Animal Mutilation Cases where witnesses have seen Beams of Light come down from the Sky and suck up the unfortunates  ?  !

I think a vortex or helicopter would be my choice. But one possibility for the missile theory is that they had a target on radar.

VORTEX is often used to try and explain the unknown.  I once wrote a letter to Dr Terence Meaden on the Crop Circle that I witnessed.  He replied that it was some kind of Vortex. But what I witnessed was nothing like any kind of Vortex activity.

[Nigel Evans]

In the case files there are observations of large diameter snow rings near the tent which would seem to be caused by circular air patterns. But i think a tornado theory would be an outlier, better would be a helicopter or karman vortex.

Glad you mentioned those Snow Circles. Any similarity between those and Crop Circles  ?  !  And what about those Cattle / Animal Mutilation Cases where witnesses have seen Beams of Light come down from the Sky and suck up the unfortunates  ?  !

I think a vortex or helicopter would be my choice. But one possibility for the missile theory is that they had a target on radar.

VORTEX is often used to try and explain the unknown.  I once wrote a letter to Dr Terence Meaden on the Crop Circle that I witnessed.  He replied that it was some kind of Vortex. But what I witnessed was nothing like any kind of Vortex activity.

High winds creating a stable set of eddies downstream from the peak (karman vortex street) is a perfectly sensiblble explanation for snow circles near the tent. Infra sound is a perfectly good theory for leaving the tent. Utterly useless in explaining the ravine of course.

[eurocentric]

In the case files there are observations of large diameter snow rings near the tent which would seem to be caused by circular air patterns. But i think a tornado theory would be an outlier, better would be a helicopter or karman vortex.

Glad you mentioned those Snow Circles. Any similarity between those and Crop Circles  ?  !  And what about those Cattle / Animal Mutilation Cases where witnesses have seen Beams of Light come down from the Sky and suck up the unfortunates  ?  !

I think a vortex or helicopter would be my choice. But one possibility for the missile theory is that they had a target on radar.

VORTEX is often used to try and explain the unknown.  I once wrote a letter to Dr Terence Meaden on the Crop Circle that I witnessed.  He replied that it was some kind of Vortex. But what I witnessed was nothing like any kind of Vortex activity.

High winds creating a stable set of eddies downstream from the peak (karman vortex street) is a perfectly sensiblble explanation for snow circles near the tent. Infra sound is a perfectly good theory for leaving the tent. Utterly useless in explaining the ravine of course.

So would a military helicopter.

[Nigel Evans]

In the case files there are observations of large diameter snow rings near the tent which would seem to be caused by circular air patterns. But i think a tornado theory would be an outlier, better would be a helicopter or karman vortex.

Glad you mentioned those Snow Circles. Any similarity between those and Crop Circles  ?  !  And what about those Cattle / Animal Mutilation Cases where witnesses have seen Beams of Light come down from the Sky and suck up the unfortunates  ?  !

I think a vortex or helicopter would be my choice. But one possibility for the missile theory is that they had a target on radar.

VORTEX is often used to try and explain the unknown.  I once wrote a letter to Dr Terence Meaden on the Crop Circle that I witnessed.  He replied that it was some kind of Vortex. But what I witnessed was nothing like any kind of Vortex activity.

High winds creating a stable set of eddies downstream from the peak (karman vortex street) is a perfectly sensiblble explanation for snow circles near the tent. Infra sound is a perfectly good theory for leaving the tent. Utterly useless in explaining the ravine of course.

So would a military helicopter.

Yes and the missile theory requires a cleanup operation that leaves no evidence in the snow.

[sarapuk]

In the case files there are observations of large diameter snow rings near the tent which would seem to be caused by circular air patterns. But i think a tornado theory would be an outlier, better would be a helicopter or karman vortex.

Glad you mentioned those Snow Circles. Any similarity between those and Crop Circles  ?  !  And what about those Cattle / Animal Mutilation Cases where witnesses have seen Beams of Light come down from the Sky and suck up the unfortunates  ?  !

I think a vortex or helicopter would be my choice. But one possibility for the missile theory is that they had a target on radar.

VORTEX is often used to try and explain the unknown.  I once wrote a letter to Dr Terence Meaden on the Crop Circle that I witnessed.  He replied that it was some kind of Vortex. But what I witnessed was nothing like any kind of Vortex activity.

High winds creating a stable set of eddies downstream from the peak (karman vortex street) is a perfectly sensiblble explanation for snow circles near the tent. Infra sound is a perfectly good theory for leaving the tent. Utterly useless in explaining the ravine of course.

Debatable.

[sarapuk]

In the case files there are observations of large diameter snow rings near the tent which would seem to be caused by circular air patterns. But i think a tornado theory would be an outlier, better would be a helicopter or karman vortex.

Glad you mentioned those Snow Circles. Any similarity between those and Crop Circles  ?  !  And what about those Cattle / Animal Mutilation Cases where witnesses have seen Beams of Light come down from the Sky and suck up the unfortunates  ?  !

I think a vortex or helicopter would be my choice. But one possibility for the missile theory is that they had a target on radar.

VORTEX is often used to try and explain the unknown.  I once wrote a letter to Dr Terence Meaden on the Crop Circle that I witnessed.  He replied that it was some kind of Vortex. But what I witnessed was nothing like any kind of Vortex activity.

High winds creating a stable set of eddies downstream from the peak (karman vortex street) is a perfectly sensiblble explanation for snow circles near the tent. Infra sound is a perfectly good theory for leaving the tent. Utterly useless in explaining the ravine of course.

So would a military helicopter.

Depends on the size of the circle.

[Catcala]

For people entertaining the theory of a tornado there seems to be a forgetfulness of what a tornado needs to form. There is no reports ever of a tornado forming in the winter and at those temperatures EVER. it needs extremely warm moist air, then a hit of cooler air coming down the slopes of the Rocky Mtns. going to the east.
       Now microbursts can act like a tornado with intense downdrafts and I admit I have no idea of what a microburst needs to happen so not sure if that happens in winter or not.