The purpose of this thread is to collect the evidence for the case for atmospheric electricity being the cause of the Dyatlov Pass incident.
Dear Nigel Evans, you need to go straight to Shura Alexeyenkov, my comrade and expedition partner to the pass. However, he will not write in English and he has a slightly different view on the physics of this phenomenon, which you are talking about.
First let us cut off your false (rather unreliable) statements:
- It was Lev Ivanov's chosen theory.
You're very much mistaken here. Lev Ivanov considered the cause of UFOs of extraterrestrial origin, knew nothing, as well as all other people who refer to UFOs. If properties of some phenomenon are not known reliably (there is no actual confirmation of these properties), then any properties can be attributed to it (this phenomenon). But this is a very destructive approach to the study of such phenomena.
- This region is rich in reports of lights, etc including during Feb 1959.
If there was a lot of talk, but there were no specific descriptions, dates or correlations with other events (or there are many discrepancies in the evidence), it does not say anything. What is needed is credible and verified information, not idle conversations. Only two observations, 17 February and 31 March 1959, are known and confirmed so far. They coincide with missile launches from Baikanur Cosmodrome to the nearest minute. There are no such random coincidences. In other conversations there are only conversations themselves, but there is no confirmation of this. If you are trying to use incorrect information, what result can you expect?
- Electrical discharge results in the formation of nitrous oxides which when combined with water forms nitric acid which is the primary chemical under consideration in "The case for chemicals" thread - https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=653.0 i.e. there was a corrosive chemical mist traveling east-west with the wind over the tent and down the slope.
Before talking about "electrical discharges", you need to have reliable information that they were there for sure. There's no such information and it can't come from anything. Therefore, it is very premature to talk about all the consequences of "electrical discharges".
From east to west (towards the wind), no fog could spread ... It is contrary to the laws of nature.
- I've been following the DPI case for some years now and (very) rarely someone makes a stunning observation that adjusts my thinking. Such an event has happened recently with the thread - "Photographs" - https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=648.0 This observation that the three heads photo can be explained as the "three shrubs" perhaps tips the balance in favour of Ivanov's belief. He was very familiar with the area and how the treeline becomes the "shrub line" and probably had no problem with interpreting the photo. Well done Marley! :)
Please do not invent anything beyond the natural if you have little knowledge of film photography and the defects it contains.
What Marley refers to is that there is an ordinary piece of unexposed film with defects broaching the film in small abrasive pieces (dust, dried chemical residues (crystals) are parallel strips) and three fragments of perforation holes (at the edges of the film) that were caught in the frame during scanning. And there's nothing more.
- Sometime ago there was a website - www.looo.ch which had a fascinating section on the DPI. N.B. it also had some less than fascinating articles about sexual freedom for children which has resulted in the Russian government apparently acting against it (I should state that i completely distance myself from those matters). In order to see this DPI article now you have to purchase an .epub (and you'll need Adobe's Digital Edition (free) to read it). However this document is truly fascinating as it marries the mythology of the region with reports of lights, spirits, electrical phenomena etc etc in an extended discussion (93 slides). Here's a quote :- "There is also a recollection of a Colonel of Railway Troops, Kupriyanov, related by Mikhail Vladimirov: “On New Year’s Eve of 1960, all of us hikers met in the house of Colonel Kupriyanov, the father of our classmate, Rita Kupriyanova. The conversation turned to the dead tourists from the Polytechnic Institute once again. The Colonel told us in secret, that when all the search parties left the area of the incident, soldiers from his regiment arrived there. One night, a sergeant reports on the R/T:
“A fireball is rolling down the mountain. It is dividing into several balls, and all of them are heading for us. What should we do?” “Act as is appropriate.” The soldiers hid in their tent and survived. However, they suffered from severe nervous shock.”
In this case you have a typical case of thoughtless retelling gossip that has no basis. In particular, there was a reference to what Vladislav Karelin said, but as he told me himself, he wasn't there and they didn't talk about anything like that, although they sometimes met with their entire group, in which Rita Kupriyanova also took part.
It's even more interesting what Colonel Kupriyanov could talk about if he's never been to a pass, and this at best is a paraphrase from the second or third person, when everyone can add everything he could think of.
Once again I suggest using reliable and verified information, otherwise all conversations will go to waste.
By the way, how "authentic" Mikhail Vladimirov's stories are, I understood when I analyzed his description of the campaign in the winter of 1959. There are also many speculations and inaccuracies.
If you want I will give the reference to article (in Russian).
Once again I remind you that if you use only reliable information about the "Fireballs" (which have nothing to do with the ball lightning), these are visual observations of distant missile launch trajectories from Baikonur range. There are several different confirmations and descriptions of those observations from different sources, which coincide in time with minute accuracy.
I carefully read these descriptions and realized that there is nothing definite and similar to the Dyatlov incident.
The only complete and detailed description of the ball lightning interaction with people in similar (but only by type of activity, but not by weather and landscape conditions) is in the case of Vladimir Kavunenko's group of climbers in the Caucasus in 1978. I wrote about it in detail in this forum. There is nothing similar in the case of Dyatlov's group. About the rest it is possible to speak only much, but the words "Ball lightning" and nothing else will be common here.
- that's all i've got for now, i'll update this post from time to time so could be worth re-reading in the future.
This is very good, but I would like the conversation to be concrete: about this case, not just about anything else.
You can say a lot of words, but from this case study will not go any further than one millimeter (or neither 0.0039 in) and the words will remain waste of time.
It follows from my objection to your text that you are giving false information with reference to other people who also did not check their information for validity. In many cases, I tried to check it with those who are referred to or similar known cases of which there is reliable information, but immediately began to contradict the laws of nature or the statements of the authors to which you refer.
Therefore, I cannot consider your statements correct. You need to find something more credible or real.