New Press Conference

[Teddy]

Dyatlov Pass: New sensational facts! On Saturday, July 11, 12 pm Moscow time, Komsomolskaya Pravda editorial will hold a press conference on the Dyatlov Pass incident. New unique documents and testimonies will be presented. KP specifically does not identify the name of the main speaker in advance, wishing to maintain the intrigue of the upcoming event. They guarantee a number of revelations will be made for the first time in the long history of the mystery of the death of nine skiers in the Northern Urals.

Following the press conference Natalya Varsegova published her article: Results of the investigation

[Teddy]

The mystery speaker at the press conference is Andrey Kuryakov - Head of the Prosecutor’s Office of the Sverdlovsk Region. This is the long awaited moment we hear the results of the preliminary investigation started in 2018.

[Jean Daniel Reuss]

I have watched a part of the program (in French time the end was at 1 pm unless I am mistaken), but I suffer a lot from being ignorant and not being able to understand a single word in Russian.
The man, the second from the right, has a really beautiful white beard !

On the left, I recognized my dear mentor Eduard Tumanov who is however contradicted by Aleks Kandr about the explanations of Dubinina's tongue being torn out.

http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova-3

Link obtained from :
https://dyatlovpass.com/dubininas-premonition?lid=1&flp=1

By the way, what do we know about Aleks Kandr? (which seems a bit weird - for me as a rationalist, because of Aleks Kandr's references to astrology).

(I manage to understand, partially and very slowly, Aleks Kandr's texts thanks to an online automatic translator.)

Like Sabine Lechtenfeld, I do not believe in telepathy. But on the opposite, I have a great admiration for women's intuition.

So I am also very intrigued by Kolmogorova's most mysterious sentence:

 •   "I talked a lot about things which are completely unfamiliar to me and I scarcely do, but I tried, sincerely. But this is all nonsense"

[Teddy]

•   "I talked a lot about things which are completely unfamiliar to me and I scarcely do, but I tried, sincerely. But this is all nonsense"

This could be freely applied to the press conference that just finished.
I am waiting on Natalya Varsegova to publish her article to bring to you the gist of the so called press conference.

A spoiler - it's an avalanche.

[Teddy]

The long awaited results of the investigation that started in 2018 were announced today by Andrey Valentinovich Kuryakov - Head of the Prosecutor’s Office of the Sverdlovsk Region. Expert opinions, test results, 3D model of the pass, in-depth study of terrain, weather, behavior, risks, military archives, books on avalanches, and yet there is still this feeling that something is missing, perhaps the big picture.

Article by Natalya Varsegova: Results of the investigation

[Monty]

The article is very well written and perhaps the best fit for an explanation. However, I don't see anything new that hasn't been proposed on here before. No smoking gun, so to speak

[Teddy]

The results of the new investigation are repeating Shkryabach conclusion all over again. My personal opinion is that Andrey Kuryakov gave a modern scientific explanation to an old wrong conclusion.

[WAB]

The results of the new investigation are repeating Shkryabach conclusion all over again. My personal opinion is that Andrey Kuryakov gave a modern scientific explanation to an old wrong conclusion.

 No, Teddy, there was no scientific explanation. He is babbling on about, that science couldn't even smell there.
Some specifications for this conference:

1. Andrey Kuryakov is not working at the prosecutor's office now. He quit there six months ago. So it's no more than his own opinion.
2. Sergey Shkryabych's opinion is based on the fact that on some mountaineering expeditions he met with Boris Slobtsov (if I'm not mistaken, he even went to the top under the leadership of Boris Slobtsov), so when he met a familiar surname on the cover of the book, he wasn't even interested in how plausible it was that Buyanov was writing almost without Slobtsov's participation. I discussed this story with him many times (perhaps even more than anyone else), and he told me there in plain text that he was represented there as a "wedding general". Answering the question: what to do with the fact that it does not coincide with what is on the ground, he said that since he once made a promise to Buyanov, what will be in the authors of the book, he can not back down.
3. It's ridiculous and sad to talk about "snow meters" and "cornices." Because it's a complete nonsense there. If Kuryakov was there (upstairs, near the pass) only 2 hours and didn't see anything like that, it's called "empty fantasy". To mention that Shura and I were there a week before and did the whole program that they offered (and they didn't do half of it themselves) to them (and the journalists of the newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda) probably are not allowed to have religious beliefs. We have a lot of concrete results, which they also kept quiet about. But journalists (especially Natalia Varsegova) are well aware of it. Me and Shura wrote a lot about them in various Internet sources. Including on this forum. Moreover, the books published by journalists of the newspaper "Komsomolskaya Pravda" (for example, the book by Nikolai Andreev) even contain numerous quotations and references to this information.

If to say rudely not honestly, it is called here: "To dump manure on a fan." Let the others sniff...

PS. I don't have much time for discussion right now. Especially in the forum format. But if there are short and specific questions, I can answer by e-mail.

[RidgeWatcher]

Thank you Teddy and WAB,

This was somewhat interesting but I still believe that Russians from Sverdlovsk would be able to adequately gauge the avalanche probability, even on 25 degrees in a storm.

What I found shocking, because I had never read or heard about is this:

Andrey Kuryakov: "Why the foresters Pashin and Cheglakov, having found Dyatlov tent two days before the search party didn't report it?".

Who were Pashin and Cheglakov and why would they be climbing Dyatlove Pass in February? If they were sawyers, why would they need to go above the tree lines and up the side of Kholat Syakhl?

[Teddy]

At WAB, this is very interesting, thank you. I had to look up what does "wedding general" mean, it means VIP.

What I found shocking, because I had never read or heard about is this:
Andrey Kuryakov: "Why the foresters Pashin and Cheglakov, having found Dyatlov tent two days before the search party didn't report it?".
Who were Pashin and Cheglakov and why would they be climbing Dyatlove Pass in February? If they were sawyers, why would they need to go above the tree lines and up the side of Kholat Syakhl?

This is old news https://dyatlovpass.com/when-was-the-tent-found
When Cheglakov and Pashin found the tent they were already recruited to actively look for the missing group. The only mystery is why didn't they report their finding.

[Nigel Evans]

• So experienced alpine hikers ran from an avalanche down the fall line instead of traversing sideways. Surely if an avalanche could make enough noise, it would leave a rubble field to be identified 4 weeks later?
• Two well dressed members with a flashlight didn't return to collect clothing, although extreme cold was now the enemy.
• The curious and different injuries to Zinaida, Igor, Rustem are simply dismissed with - "Dyatlov, Slobodin and Kolmogorova, one after another, began to climb back along the slope, but due to overcooling the felt helpless and fell to the ground.". Rustem suffered head trauma and internal bleeding? Zinaida's face is reported in the autopsy as abrasions but the morgue photos challenge this (imo)?
• Tent found covered in firn snow.
• No explanation is offered for YuriK's leg.
• The overall lack of frostbite in extreme cold is ignored.
• The ravine 4's injuries were due to a fall of 3m!!
• Footsteps in wet snow - ignored.
• Reports of orange snow - ignored.
• Purple glow on clothing - ignored.
• Two bodies were stripped of clothing but a number of burnt pieces of clothing were discarded - ignored.
• Nicolai found with his gloves in his pocket - ignored.
• Strange photos - ignored.
• Strange but similar marks on Igor, YuriK and possibly YuriD - ignored.
• Okishev's and Ivanov's statement that they were ordered to front a coverup and cooperate with confiscation of evidence - ignored.
• Case shutdown on discovery of last bodies and a request for a summer site inspection refused - ignored.

Not exactly a comprehensive explanation of the evidence!

[MDGross]

Yesterday, in the offices of Komsomolskaya Pravda, members of the committee that in 2018 investigated the Dyatlov tragedy detailed their conclusion. Since the investigation only considered three scenarios - avalanche, snow slab and hurricane - it's not surprising that they concluded that an avalanche was the cause. It seems that Zolotaryov, who was standing outside the tent with Thibeaux-Brignolle, heard the characteristic sounds of an avalanche beginning above the tent and alerted the others in the tent. The nine hikers made their way down to the forest, where Doroshenko, Krivonischenko, Dyatlov, Slobodin and Kolmogorova died from hypothermia. Zolotaryov, Dubinina, Thibeaux-Brignolle and Kolevatov scooped out a snow den, but in doing so caused part of the floor to collapse and caused the four to fall into the ravine. Could the tragedy unfold in this way? Of course. Did it happen this way? Who knows, the findings of the committee raise as many questions as they tried to answer.
The committee did present declassified data of the Ministry of Defense that did confirm that a missile launch occurred on Feb. 2, but that the missile flew in the opposite direction of the hikers, crashing in Kazakhstan.

[WAB]

At WAB, this is very interesting, thank you. I had to look up what does "wedding general" mean, it means VIP.

"Свадебный генерал = Wedding General" it is the kind of person who's invited to the event  decorate the event itself. So to some extent it is VIP, but only as impressive image.

What I found shocking, because I had never read or heard about is this:
Andrey Kuryakov: "Why the foresters Pashin and Cheglakov, having found Dyatlov tent two days before the search party didn't report it?".
Who were Pashin and Cheglakov and why would they be climbing Dyatlove Pass in February? If they were sawyers, why would they need to go above the tree lines and up the side of Kholat Syakhl?

This is old news https://dyatlovpass.com/when-was-the-tent-found
When Cheglakov and Pashin found the tent they were already recruited to actively look for the missing group. The only mystery is why didn't they report their finding.

It's not mystery, it's journalist's desire inflate fake sensation. It's traditional trick for them. The more they write any nonsense, the more money they'll get.

[WAB]

Thank you Teddy and WAB,

This was somewhat interesting but I still believe that Russians from Sverdlovsk would be able to adequately gauge the avalanche probability, even on 25 degrees in a storm.

The Russians can do lot of things. Of course, this case will someday be revealed, but not in a fake way that is now used.
There's no 25 degrees in the place where the tent was. We measured it in both 2014 and 2019. There's slope of 16...17 degrees everywhere. In small areas (about 5 m) sometimes the angle reaches 20 degrees, but these are local areas in 2 or 3 places separately.
No one in the checking group made any measurements, and the properties of snow did not conduct the full program, in contrast to what we did. Therefore, the possibility of an avalanche (or any snow movement) can only be considered hypothetically.

What I found shocking, because I had never read or heard about is this:

Andrey Kuryakov: "Why the foresters Pashin and Cheglakov, having found Dyatlov tent two days before the search party didn't report it?".

Don't pay attention to this article, it's fake.
2 days before Sharavin and Slobtsov found the tent, Pashin and Cheglakov were in his (Boris Slobtsov was the leader of the group) group together with all the others and did not go far away. They were constantly seen by all the other group members. It takes almost 2 days for the whole group (11 people) reach the tent from the place the journalists are thinking about.  This is exactly as long as the whole group needs go there. And they had to go back and move on with the group.
Or are you a supporter of alien tragression?
There are no miracles in nature, and what illiterate journalists write (about the movement and possibilities of people) does not exist in life.
In addition, this is understandable because everyone in the group, who said something about this search, claimed that Pashin and Cheglakov were very badly oriented on the ground in the place where they landed from the helicopter.
They did not report it just because they found nothing. There was nothing to report.

Who were Pashin and Cheglakov and why would they be climbing Dyatlove Pass in February?

Pashin was forester in the village Vizhai (80 km from that place), Cheglakov was the head of the fire brigade. They were both hunters, but there were no hunters in the upper reaches of the Lozva River and the Auspia River. It is very far from Vizhay, and much closer there are places for hunting, which are no worse than the place where they were disembarked from the helicopter.
Only Pashin, together with Sharavin and Slobtsov, rose to the pass. Since he was 30 years older than these two young men, he was constantly tired, so he stayed by the stone on the pass, and the other two went further and found a tent.
Here, the simple logic of events disproves what the journalists have inflated in an empty place.

[Teddy]

Ok, WAB, I really don't need more weirdness that it is necessary. No aliens, no teleportation.

@ RidgeWatcher: Kuryakov didn't say this. This questions is from the authors of the article.

FROM THE AUTHORS
...
In the meantime, these questions remained open:
...
    Why the foresters Pashin and Cheglakov, having found Dyatlov tent two days before the search party didn't report it?

[Marchesk]

This is BS. That slope isn't avalanche prone according to everything I've read and heard about the case. They wouldn't run downhill from an oncoming avalanche, and the footprints indicated they walked. If all nine of them decided to stop at the cedar tree to make a fire, how come it was so small and was allowed to burn out? Did they really sit around and wait for the two Yuris to freeze to death before going back uphill with some of their clothing? Why would three of them decide to return to their tent after going all the way downslope instead of five minutes after the avalanche? Why did the tent show only vertical collapse, not horizontal? And where did such precise weather readings mentioned in the article come from?

I don't buy this theory. I also don't believe a 3 meter fall from a snow den collapse causes all the injuries found on the Rav 4. The original investigation dismissed the avalanche theory right away. It was clear the tent had not been covered by an avalanche, because there was no indication it had been moved horizontally downslope, and that slope isn't avalanche prone.

[sarapuk]

This is BS. That slope isn't avalanche prone according to everything I've read and heard about the case. They wouldn't run downhill from an oncoming avalanche, and the footprints indicated they walked. If all nine of them decided to stop at the cedar tree to make a fire, how come it was so small and was allowed to burn out? Did they really sit around and wait for the two Yuris to freeze to death before going back uphill with some of their clothing? Why would three of them decide to return to their tent after going all the way downslope instead of five minutes after the avalanche? Why did the tent show only vertical collapse, not horizontal? And where did such precise weather readings mentioned in the article come from?

I don't buy this theory. I also don't believe a 3 meter fall from a snow den collapse causes all the injuries found on the Rav 4. The original investigation dismissed the avalanche theory right away. It was clear the tent had not been covered by an avalanche, because there was no indication it had been moved horizontally downslope, and that slope isn't avalanche prone.

Bullshit sums it up nicely.  Its like a Government trying to cover something up and doing a very bad job of it.  Even non experts can use their common sense and see that the area where the Tent was pitched was not in an area conducive to Avalanches.  Avalanches of any kind. 

[RidgeWatcher]

Thank you, WAB And Teddy for answering my questions.

I have and will always give the Dyatlov Ski Tourists the respect that they deserve to adequately assess the slope on Kholat Syakhl for avalanche danger. Igor and the group knew what they were doing.

[Naufragia]

The objections posted by WAB, Nigel, Marchesk and Sarapuk look valid to me. I'm scratching my head over how the findings can be so definite and precise with respect to some aspects, yet so loose and dismissive of others. Maybe the formal report, rather than a journalist's version of its contents, will clarify?

[Teddy]

The objections posted by WAB, Nigel, Marchesk and Sarapuk look valid to me. I'm scratching my head over how the findings can be so definite and precise with respect to some aspects, yet so loose and dismissive of others. Maybe the formal report, rather than a journalist's version of its contents, will clarify?

I have asked the journalist the question if we will ever see the original reports and the answer was that they are so "weak" (was the word used) that they will never see the light of day because the authors are old and the negative reaction and criticism can seriously jeopardize their health. The journalists are actually being kind because one thing you don't know is that Kuryakov stripped his uniform to deliver his findings because he was not given the green light by his supervisors. He held the press conference as a civilian. He wanted us to know what has he been up to the last 2 years, because the Prosecutor's office is not obliged to report anything. They can do whatever they want. There could be total silence and we would have imagined.... I don't have to spell it out what would be the speculations if we hadn't heard anything from the investigation. But that's about it. We won't hear anything more on the the topic of investigation, nothing useful anyway. Sure thing the press can twist that damp cloth for drops of information but nothing critical will come out, because there is nothing. At least this is what I have been told. Besides the forensic reports. No one has seen the forensic reports yet. Maybe there is something to look for after all. But the forensic reports will not support foul play. This much I know.

Right now I am more worried about Kuryakov, because no matter how "innocent" his report he took it upon himself to deliver it. The whole "investigation' is his initiative. He wasn't appointed to do it. He received some stupid letter from a crazy person and followed up on it. Kuryakov got sucked up into the rabbit hole like all of us, and since he was in a position to do something about it, he got the approval of the Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation Yuri Chayka. They now have a new Prosecutor General - Yuri Krasnov. The bureaucracy in Russia is unbelievable. What Kuryakov did gave us a glimpse of hope, but be assured that this is a very rare phenomenon. Attacking the investigation is futile, because there won't be another.
 

[sparrow]

It wasn't much of an investigation if they already had their minds made up about what their conclusion would be.

[Teddy]

It wasn't much of an investigation if they already had their minds made up about what their conclusion would be.

My thoughts exactly.

[Naufragia]

Hi Teddy, thanks for explaining the background to the investigation. It really helps to know what the context is ... and that we shouldn't get our hopes up for more revelations from it.

[hoosiergose]

• So experienced alpine hikers ran from an avalanche down the fall line instead of traversing sideways. Surely if an avalanche could make enough noise, it would leave a rubble field to be identified 4 weeks later?
• Two well dressed members with a flashlight didn't return to collect clothing, although extreme cold was now the enemy.
• The curious and different injuries to Zinaida, Igor, Rustem are simply dismissed with - "Dyatlov, Slobodin and Kolmogorova, one after another, began to climb back along the slope, but due to overcooling the felt helpless and fell to the ground.". Rustem suffered head trauma and internal bleeding? Zinaida's face is reported in the autopsy as abrasions but the morgue photos challenge this (imo)?
• Tent found covered in firn snow.
• No explanation is offered for YuriK's leg.
• The overall lack of frostbite in extreme cold is ignored.
• The ravine 4's injuries were due to a fall of 3m!!
• Footsteps in wet snow - ignored.
• Reports of orange snow - ignored.
• Purple glow on clothing - ignored.
• Two bodies were stripped of clothing but a number of burnt pieces of clothing were discarded - ignored.
• Nicolai found with his gloves in his pocket - ignored.
• Strange photos - ignored.
• Strange but similar marks on Igor, YuriK and possibly YuriD - ignored.
• Okishev's and Ivanov's statement that they were ordered to front a coverup and cooperate with confiscation of evidence - ignored.
• Case shutdown on discovery of last bodies and a request for a summer site inspection refused - ignored.

Not exactly a comprehensive explanation of the evidence!

Excellent synopsis Nigel - excellent points- well spoken indeed
As usual you’re analytical mind defines you Sir

[hoosiergose]

The latest Government findings of the Dyatlov incident is basically the same old smoke & mirrors. Not a serious investigation in any way shape or form.
Very disappointing indeed

[WAB]

• So experienced alpine hikers ran from an avalanche down the fall line instead of traversing sideways. Surely if an avalanche could make enough noise, it would leave a rubble field to be identified 4 weeks later?
• Two well dressed members with a flashlight didn't return to collect clothing, although extreme cold was now the enemy.
• The curious and different injuries to Zinaida, Igor, Rustem are simply dismissed with - "Dyatlov, Slobodin and Kolmogorova, one after another, began to climb back along the slope, but due to overcooling the felt helpless and fell to the ground.". Rustem suffered head trauma and internal bleeding? Zinaida's face is reported in the autopsy as abrasions but the morgue photos challenge this (imo)?
• Tent found covered in firn snow.
• No explanation is offered for YuriK's leg.
• The overall lack of frostbite in extreme cold is ignored.
• The ravine 4's injuries were due to a fall of 3m!!
• Footsteps in wet snow - ignored.
• Reports of orange snow - ignored.
• Purple glow on clothing - ignored.
• Two bodies were stripped of clothing but a number of burnt pieces of clothing were discarded - ignored.
• Nicolai found with his gloves in his pocket - ignored.
• Strange photos - ignored.
• Strange but similar marks on Igor, YuriK and possibly YuriD - ignored.
• Okishev's and Ivanov's statement that they were ordered to front a coverup and cooperate with confiscation of evidence - ignored.
• Case shutdown on discovery of last bodies and a request for a summer site inspection refused - ignored.

Not exactly a comprehensive explanation of the evidence!

Excellent synopsis Nigel - excellent points- well spoken indeed
As usual you’re analytical mind defines you Sir

Mr. Hoosiergose, you'll have to excuse me, but this is not analytics, but set of small quasi-intellectual words involved primarily in collection of fabrications, gossip and rumors.
If you want, I can make detailed analysis of all these insinuations.
I have already stopped communicating with this mister because he is not even able understand the simplest physical and mathematical examples that disprove his claims. This is not my level of discussion, and I have no desire or intention of going down to his level.

[WAB]

The latest Government findings of the Dyatlov incident is basically the same old smoke & mirrors. Not a serious investigation in any way shape or form.

I have correct you in these comments.
1. These aren't government statements or even the official version of the prosecution.
2. Mr. Kuryakov spoke with his private opinion, initiated by journalists and nothing more. He can't give his opinion to the Prosecutor's Office, because he hasn't worked there for more than six months.
3. This opinion has nothing to do with the real state of affairs and I know it very well, because   week before, my friend and I had conducted all the experiments announced by the Prosecutor's Office, and their expedition on the spot could not conduct even half of these applications. What they were doing elsewhere, they could do anywhere (even in Africa), but it does not give the right results and cannot be the basis for the right conclusions.
4. If you paid attention to what the specialists involved said in the conclusion of this conference, you must understand that doctor Tumanov did not agree with the interpretation of trauma, and glaciologist Popovnin softly said that if the theory of avalanche can be considered (literally: "...has the right to exist...". (c) ), it means that he cannot guarantee that it was so.
5. Even what the prosecution team headed by Mr. Kuryakov was doing was not investigation, it was three-point test of the theory. The investigation and other official actions under Russian law in this case cannot be carried out for two reasons:
A) - there was court decision refusing to conduct the investigation in 2013 because one person submitted to the court illiterate and insignificant "quasi-evidence" of the wrong decision. All terms of appeal and cassation were missed long ago, so the court's decision cannot be reviewed.
B) - there are no new and essential facts and evidence in this case. If someone considers himself above the law and invents something unrealistic as these conditions, then this is the usual position of legally illiterate person.

Very disappointing indeed

I fully agree with you, but this only applies to the fact that such studies and the presentation of their results must be done very competently, qualitatively and responsibly.
I am only talking about the physical, logical and factual part of the research. Legal issues are separate line, but there are no prospects for that.
Let us distinguish between the desires of the public and the system of legal actions of the state.
Any scientific and factual investigation will be possible and useful for solving this case, but it should be done independently and very competently. In the other case, it would simply be imitation of that action, as the actions of the group led by Mr. Kuryakov have shown.

[Nigel Evans]

I have already stopped communicating with this mister because he is not even able understand the simplest physical and mathematical examples that disprove his claims. This is not my level of discussion, and I have no desire or intention of going down to his level.

Dear WAB.
You enjoy my respect for making the effort to post on a forum not in your first language with the burden of translation. But you seem to be missing the point of it, which is, to discuss, contest, agree and disagree. Perhaps even with a sense of humour....


Regards.

[Monty]

My impression is WAB brings a very pragmatic approach. Nigel has a very diverse approach. I can't prove that either is right or either is wrong. But for my understanding of the Dyatlov Pass Incident to evolve I require both perspectives. Just because we have reached another dead end, doesn't mean we can't still speculate or hypothesize. And yes, hats off to WAB for keeping some of us in check in a second language.

[sarapuk]

No one is perfect.  And we are all trying to make sense of this Dyatlov Mystery and the apparent reluctance of the Russian Authorities to carry out a PROPER INVESTIGATION.  There is nothing stopping the Russian Authorities from doing so.  It matters not that the Criminal Investigation was over a long time ago.  What matters is now in the present time.  And that is why so many people believe that the Russian Authorities are trying to cover something up.  A proper investigation does not have to be of a criminal nature.  It can be done because it is in the PUBLIC INTEREST to do so.