Who cut open the tent?

[Australie]

I am wondering if it is possible that the hikers did not cut open the tent. It seems so crazy as it was their only protection.  Is it possible that after they left the tent others entered it and cut it open so that the hikers could not use it as shelter?

[eurocentric]

It's possible. It certainly looks like a vandalised tent when set up for examination. It made me wonder just how many escape holes and attempts at making them they really needed, and how all that must have slowed them down in any imagined emergency egress.

There are a number of horizontal slashings high up near the ridge, one of which was made by a rescuer's ice pick, when the most efficient means of rapid escape for those inside would surely be a vertical slice and then squeeze through, assuming the tent flap buttons were all done up, though reading at this site that doesn't seem to be confirmed.

If you wanted to make sure they couldn't return to use the tent you'd likely cut/tear horizontally near the ridge so the canvas flops down inside.

As to who this may implicate, I'd suggest the Mansi more than the military. The Mansi would presumably have no need for cameras, and possibly the money (?) left in the tent, and attempting to trade such things would arouse suspicion, they'd just want them off the land, whereas I feel the military would not be able to help themselves checking for valuables and taking cameras and money.

[Ting]

Let's say the group DID cut the tent from the inside. How many people do you think were doing the cutting ? 1, 2 more.
How long would it take to react to something - make a group decision to cut an exit in the tent and then actually do it ? 1,2, 3 minutes ?
Even if you think there were 2 or 3 of the group outside that still leaves at least 3 people inside the tent NOT cutting. What are THEY doing for 1,2 or 3 minutes ?
They are obviously not grabbing useful clothes that must be no more than a few feet away because they left them behind.
A reasonable time frame needs to be established for a number of key events like the cutting of the tent, the trip to the Cedar tree, the time to break the Cedar branches, the time taken to start a fire, the time taken to suffer frostbite of the hands given no gloves, the time to build the den.
The latest official report stated that it took about 2 hours to set up the tent and that they started at about 5pm and finished set up at about 7pm.
Although timings might involve a degree of estimation it shouldn't be too hard to at least narrow down many of these timings.

[sparrow]

Somewhere on this forum loose-cannon has (I thought) a pretty good post about the cutting of the tent.  I am not sure about any other postings since I still have a lot to read on this forum.

[Tony]

I am wondering if it is possible that the hikers did not cut open the tent. It seems so crazy as it was their only protection.  Is it possible that after they left the tent others entered it and cut it open so that the hikers could not use it as shelter?

Could be, but why from the inside? Why not cut it from the outside?

[sarapuk]

I am wondering if it is possible that the hikers did not cut open the tent. It seems so crazy as it was their only protection.  Is it possible that after they left the tent others entered it and cut it open so that the hikers could not use it as shelter?

All options open after the latest so called Authority Investigation proved to be a big disappointment.  But introducing this approach where you suggest others, who are the others that you are suggesting  !  ?  Or should I say, who do you think would want to do that.  They have left their life line to walk a mile not properly dressed and they are highly unlikely to get back to the Tent, so why would anyone want to cut the Tent for the reason that you suggest  !  ? 

[mishka]

the tent has never been cut from the inside but from the outside !!
the version saying that it was cut from the inside validates the avalanche or other theory ... nothing else

[eurocentric]

Because I'm new to this mystery, as in I only learned of it 4 weeks ago, my theories continue to evolve by the day, and I have started to wonder, since I'm fairly convinced Semyon's photo's image a helicopter and search light, and it is stated the military were in that area that night, that this is somehow connected to how the tent is as found.

If you were in a dark tent on a white mountain ridge in a communist country, and the military were suddenly all around you unexpectedly, you might feel a little too conspicuous, and if any of your number has reason to fear being asked to show ID and papers, or your permits are not 100%, you may elect to camouflage your presence as best you can and hide.

So, you might not set up the tent ridge support ropes, which don't appear to be there in the photo of the tent, you wouldn't set up your stove because the smoke would be a dead giveaway (and this then risks hypothermia), you might drop the tent down and cover it with snow, explaining how Dyatlov's torch is later found sat on top of 10cms of snow, and you may lay down inside, under the canvas, submerged in the trench you've dug, to disappear for as long as you can stand it until hypothermia flushes you out.

When you leave your tent you may have cut your way out, or wish to stage it further so it looks like an abandoned, wind-shredded tent, in the hope nobody comes looking for you, figuring you'll return when all the activity is over, and when it seems okay you walk off to go hide in the woods, dousing your fire there the moment you hear a helicopter rotor or any other sound indicating a military presence is nearby.

This doesn't fully explain why they set off unprepared, not just without coats and shoes, but without at least one of the axes they had, or their saw, but if the tent was already collapsed and covered in snow getting out of it might have been difficult enough, and they may have not been thinking straight due to the effects of hypothermia, and/or may have had to seize the moment the coast seemed clear.

[sarapuk]

the tent has never been cut from the inside but from the outside !!
the version saying that it was cut from the inside validates the avalanche or other theory ... nothing else

Bold statement, but who knows, it may be correct.  Difficult to say now, without the actual tent.

[Ting]

I'm fairly convinced Semyon's photo's image a helicopter and search light, and it is stated the military were in that area that night, that this is somehow connected to how the tent is as found.

If you were in a dark tent on a white mountain ridge in a communist country, and the military were suddenly all around you unexpectedly, you might feel a little too conspicuous, and if any of your number has reason to fear being asked to show ID and papers, or your permits are not 100%, you may elect to camouflage your presence as best you can and hide.

If Semyon's photo is a helicopter searchlight then the act of standing out in the open contradicts your idea of staying inconspicuous. (after all the photo is almost an entire orb of light not just a partial orb surreptitiously imaged through a tent flap). Their ID and paperwork managed to get them a long way so I'm struggling to see why it should be a liability if scrutinised by a patrol. There was also a directive at the time restricting the use of military transport. Some people have theorised the idea that exposing Senior military officer's wrongful use of helicopters formed a motive for eliminating the group. Also, I would think that if a helicopter is trying to locate the group it would be easier to try at sunrise - it's not like the tourists are going far.   
Personally, I place more importance on the not taking of shoes, coats whilst moving away from the tent etc. than I do on the cuts in the tent whether from inside or out. 

[mishka]

Do you want a clue ....
guessed the tent was cut from the outside and some day after the hikers died

[Georgi]

It's possible. It certainly looks like a vandalised tent when set up for examination. It made me wonder just how many escape holes and attempts at making them they really needed, and how all that must have slowed them down in any imagined emergency egress.

There are a number of horizontal slashings high up near the ridge, one of which was made by a rescuer's ice pick, when the most efficient means of rapid escape for those inside would surely be a vertical slice and then squeeze through, assuming the tent flap buttons were all done up, though reading at this site that doesn't seem to be confirmed.

If you wanted to make sure they couldn't return to use the tent you'd likely cut/tear horizontally near the ridge so the canvas flops down inside.

As to who this may implicate, I'd suggest the Mansi more than the military. The Mansi would presumably have no need for cameras, and possibly the money (?) left in the tent, and attempting to trade such things would arouse suspicion, they'd just want them off the land, whereas I feel the military would not be able to help themselves checking for valuables and taking cameras and money.

Right now its a mystery with dozens of theories, if the camera's, money, watches and all the valuables were missing then this would not be a mystery and someone would have be thrown under the bus for this whether they were guilty or not.

[Georgi]

Could be, but why from the inside? Why not cut it from the outside?

Covering their tracks, if they were careful and had the time cutting it from the inside makes sense. Cutting it from the outside might have left evidence and that could have made it obvious that someone else was doing the cutting.

[Georgi]

All options open after the latest so called Authority Investigation proved to be a big disappointment.  But introducing this approach where you suggest others, who are the others that you are suggesting  !  ?  Or should I say, who do you think would want to do that.  They have left their life line to walk a mile not properly dressed and they are highly unlikely to get back to the Tent, so why would anyone want to cut the Tent for the reason that you suggest  !  ?

To make it appear that the hikers left the tent in complete and utter panic due to a terrifying person or thing. We don't know who cut the tent and we don't know when the tent was cut, it could have been cut by the hikers to leave the tent in a hurry at the time of egress or it could have been cut by someone else at a later point in time to create confusion.

[Georgi]

Because I'm new to this mystery, as in I only learned of it 4 weeks ago, my theories continue to evolve by the day, and I have started to wonder, since I'm fairly convinced Semyon's photo's image a helicopter and search light, and it is stated the military were in that area that night, that this is somehow connected to how the tent is as found.

If you were in a dark tent on a white mountain ridge in a communist country, and the military were suddenly all around you unexpectedly, you might feel a little too conspicuous, and if any of your number has reason to fear being asked to show ID and papers, or your permits are not 100%, you may elect to camouflage your presence as best you can and hide.

So, you might not set up the tent ridge support ropes, which don't appear to be there in the photo of the tent, you wouldn't set up your stove because the smoke would be a dead giveaway (and this then risks hypothermia), you might drop the tent down and cover it with snow, explaining how Dyatlov's torch is later found sat on top of 10cms of snow, and you may lay down inside, under the canvas, submerged in the trench you've dug, to disappear for as long as you can stand it until hypothermia flushes you out.

When you leave your tent you may have cut your way out, or wish to stage it further so it looks like an abandoned, wind-shredded tent, in the hope nobody comes looking for you, figuring you'll return when all the activity is over, and when it seems okay you walk off to go hide in the woods, dousing your fire there the moment you hear a helicopter rotor or any other sound indicating a military presence is nearby.

This doesn't fully explain why they set off unprepared, not just without coats and shoes, but without at least one of the axes they had, or their saw, but if the tent was already collapsed and covered in snow getting out of it might have been difficult enough, and they may have not been thinking straight due to the effects of hypothermia, and/or may have had to seize the moment the coast seemed clear.

If I were trying to hide, I would hide in the treeline as it would be harder for someone to spot a tent amongst the trees as apposed to a tent in the middle of nothing in an area covered with snow. They were young, capable and fit enough plus they had a member who was a veteran of the second world war who would have likely pushed for them to continue on foot through the night for as long as they can if they felt threatened. The fact that they set up their tent in the middle of nowhere with no cover, they weren't prepared to egress quickly and left all of their lifesaving equipment behind indicates they were not expecting trouble.

[Georgi]

Do you want a clue ....
guessed the tent was cut from the outside and some day after the hikers died

Where is the proof that it was cut from the outside? And ultimately if it was cut by someone else the day after they died, does it really matter wether it was cut from the inside or outside?

[mishka]

yes it changes everything if it was cut from the outside it means we want hidden events that actually took place and give a much more effective theory ..... if the famous document that was found saying that the discovery of the bodies had been found on February 6 and modified after February 22 is real it implies that some people want to hide a truth .... the tent has disappeared impossible to check now with a microscope the possible opening of the interior...... in my opinion we have to study now who cut the tent from the outside....
Let's focus on how they left the tent and especially the condition of the tent?        First of all the tent is not in such bad shape. hence their interest in wanting to go back to the tent to sleep there. everything is in order inside the shoes and other supply..... no something wrong  here ...leave the tent quietly Under minus 25 degrés? and without shoes  what a  game ....
the tent is in  good condition for leaving without clothes... I strongly believe that they heard some people arrived military or other and armed .... Semyon Zolotaryov with his amazing camera around his neck? weird no ??? went out with Nikolay Thibeaux-Brignolle who I point out was perfectly dressed together , they went out to see what was going on. and the surprise .... police or military or other you want . they were asked to leave the tent immediately because the place was in danger and had to leave the tent immediately and without waiting without shoes without clothing we don't care OUT  NOW !!!!
But  going out all it was already doomed to death hikers have tried to ask them for get back their clothes and other ... unfortunately the military or police or someone else  didn't want to... and so a fight began but with weapons the hikers could do nothing but leave their tent ..... some day after or the next day on February 3 or February 4 the military decided to pass this for a simple and stupid avalanche . and  decided to cut the tent
 in my opinion, where the reason of the document already established by the police report by claiming that February 6 had discovered the bodies .... luckily this document was not burned or torn but forgets in police administration  and forgot to have modified it the time.....to be continue

[eurocentric]

I'm fairly convinced Semyon's photo's image a helicopter and search light, and it is stated the military were in that area that night, that this is somehow connected to how the tent is as found.

If you were in a dark tent on a white mountain ridge in a communist country, and the military were suddenly all around you unexpectedly, you might feel a little too conspicuous, and if any of your number has reason to fear being asked to show ID and papers, or your permits are not 100%, you may elect to camouflage your presence as best you can and hide.

If Semyon's photo is a helicopter searchlight then the act of standing out in the open contradicts your idea of staying inconspicuous. (after all the photo is almost an entire orb of light not just a partial orb surreptitiously imaged through a tent flap). Their ID and paperwork managed to get them a long way so I'm struggling to see why it should be a liability if scrutinised by a patrol. There was also a directive at the time restricting the use of military transport. Some people have theorised the idea that exposing Senior military officer's wrongful use of helicopters formed a motive for eliminating the group. Also, I would think that if a helicopter is trying to locate the group it would be easier to try at sunrise - it's not like the tourists are going far.   
Personally, I place more importance on the not taking of shoes, coats whilst moving away from the tent etc. than I do on the cuts in the tent whether from inside or out.

Late reply as only just seen this.

The clearest photo of a lamp is not head on or it would flood out the exposure, and could have been taken through a viewing/breathing hole cut in the tent canvas.

The only photo which might suggest the hikers had been seen is the first frame, "3 heads",  where a bright light floods out the exposure. But if that light was in the distance it may not be spotlighting them (the beam falls short, onto the snow in front). Or it may not be heads at all which are silhouetted. Or it's a flare.

I don't think the military would be looking for the hikers, they would be looking for something else, most probably escapees, and such a pressing need would override the national no fly orders during annual KGB celebrations. There may even have been some chinese whispers about 'a group of strangers' seen heading that way (the hikers) and this got back to the military.

The hikers likely heard about the escapees from the people at Vizhay and may have chosen to site their tent where they did to avoid them. If so they would deduce what this activity was all about, but still have their own reasons not to want to get caught up in it all and prefer to go to ground.

Their paperwork wasn't 100%. Tibo and Yuri K didn't have permits for their fischer knives. Only Aleksander Kolevatov did.

[Jean Daniel Reuss]

---> Reply #16
..................      [••]...they heard.. some people arrived military or other...
Zolotaryov...went out with Nikolay Thibeaux-Brignolle...and the surprise .... police or military or other you want...
they were asked to leave the tent immediately because the place was in danger and had to leave the tent immediately and without waiting without shoes without clothing we don't care OUT  NOW !!!!
.................

Yes ! very good ! mishka has come up with a very good explanation for the problem of getting out of the tent. I even think that it is the explanation that outperforms all the others in its simplicity and psychological verisimilitude (plausibility).

                           The getting out of the tent was caused by cunning (ruse), by a clever and diabolical deception.

To support mishka hypothesis,  I quickly  improvise some imaginary complements :

                 [••]...they heard.. the leader of the attackers (3 Stalinist terrorists), who was a good comedian and who shouted in a firm but almost panicky voice :

Excuse me. You don't know me, but I am the general in charge of missile tests in the Sverdlovsk region... ( or Ivdel ...or xxx base ...there, to be more credible, the false and misleading speech can add some details about the current state of Soviet military technology in 1959. These are precisions or details which are certainly known by any student of the UPI).

The place where you set up your tent three hours ago must be cleared immediately.

We have lost control of an experimental missile and I personally rush to warn you :

I have just learned that the latest prediction calculations indicate that the mad explosive projectile will fall exactly where your tent is (what great bad luck !).

Hurry! Hurry! You must leave immediately, otherwise death is assured.
..............
                       It is only after several minutes that the 9 hikers understand that they have been deceived....
...................
For the rest, the topic normally planned for the discussion is : "Altercation on the pass  ==>  Altercation on the pass" ,  starting from Reply #17
      Per Inge Oestmoen  : March 07, 2020, 02:21:48 AM  --->   Reply #17

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.0 

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.30

Note :  The question of whether the tent was cut from the inside or from the outside is irrelevant since the 3 Stalinist terrorists rested inside the intact tent on February 2 after defeating the 9 hikers.

°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

Correction: Aleks Kandr, who is the author of 3 essential websites written in Russian, is a member of "forum.dyatlovpass.com" since October 29, 2019.

http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova 

http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova-2

http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova-3

[mishka]

wow a person finally understood me this version should not be underestimated !!! thanks for supporting my version ... thx. Jean Daniel Reuss

[Squatch]

I am wondering if it is possible that the hikers did not cut open the tent. It seems so crazy as it was their only protection.  Is it possible that after they left the tent others entered it and cut it open so that the hikers could not use it as shelter?

I believe some of the hikers cut the tent open from the inside, because all nine were convinced that an avalanche was starting.

Semyon Zolotaryov and Nikolay Thibeaux-Brignolle (Tibo) had gotten dressed to go outside and make sure the tent was secure. There was a really terrible windstorm that evening and the tent was starting to collapse. The eye-level cuts in the tent were created by Igor Dyatlov in order to communicate with Zolotaryov and Tibo. Dyatlov could speak with them in this way and also shine his flashlight out periodically. The group was nervous about the storm and was considering relocating to the forest below based on the success or failure of Zolotaryov and Tibo in fixing the tent support.

It was at this time that extremely strong gusts of wind went over the top of Kholat Syakhl carrying with them large amounts of snow. This snow crashed down on the area of the tent. In the extreme weather conditions, it was impossible to distinguish this snowfall from the start of an avalanche and the hikers fled after cutting their way out of the tent in a panic. In the process, Dyatlov dropped his switched-off flashlight. This explains the windblown snow found on top of the tent and the lack of avalanche evidence.

On the way down, Rustem Slobodin fell and sustained head injuries, probably where the switched-on flashlight was found.

[mishka]

as u want

[mishka]

ok am so happy your theory you fk ...... find the way out

case closed !!!!!!
thx steven spieberg ...... l get quiet sleep now
....please get l get   finished my  bottle of vodka ......is cold here in Siberia  ....poka

[sarapuk]

All options open after the latest so called Authority Investigation proved to be a big disappointment.  But introducing this approach where you suggest others, who are the others that you are suggesting  !  ?  Or should I say, who do you think would want to do that.  They have left their life line to walk a mile not properly dressed and they are highly unlikely to get back to the Tent, so why would anyone want to cut the Tent for the reason that you suggest  !  ?

To make it appear that the hikers left the tent in complete and utter panic due to a terrifying person or thing. We don't know who cut the tent and we don't know when the tent was cut, it could have been cut by the hikers to leave the tent in a hurry at the time of egress or it could have been cut by someone else at a later point in time to create confusion.

But who are the others ? Why would any one go to such trouble.

[Georgi]

yes it changes everything if it was cut from the outside it means we want hidden events that actually took place and give a much more effective theory ..... if the famous document that was found saying that the discovery of the bodies had been found on February 6 and modified after February 22 is real it implies that some people want to hide a truth .... the tent has disappeared impossible to check now with a microscope the possible opening of the interior...... in my opinion we have to study now who cut the tent from the outside....
Let's focus on how they left the tent and especially the condition of the tent?        First of all the tent is not in such bad shape. hence their interest in wanting to go back to the tent to sleep there. everything is in order inside the shoes and other supply..... no something wrong  here ...leave the tent quietly Under minus 25 degrés? and without shoes  what a  game ....
the tent is in  good condition for leaving without clothes... I strongly believe that they heard some people arrived military or other and armed .... Semyon Zolotaryov with his amazing camera around his neck? weird no ??? went out with Nikolay Thibeaux-Brignolle who I point out was perfectly dressed together , they went out to see what was going on. and the surprise .... police or military or other you want . they were asked to leave the tent immediately because the place was in danger and had to leave the tent immediately and without waiting without shoes without clothing we don't care OUT  NOW !!!!
But  going out all it was already doomed to death hikers have tried to ask them for get back their clothes and other ... unfortunately the military or police or someone else  didn't want to... and so a fight began but with weapons the hikers could do nothing but leave their tent ..... some day after or the next day on February 3 or February 4 the military decided to pass this for a simple and stupid avalanche . and  decided to cut the tent
 in my opinion, where the reason of the document already established by the police report by claiming that February 6 had discovered the bodies .... luckily this document was not burned or torn but forgets in police administration  and forgot to have modified it the time.....to be continue

Knowing if the tent was cut from the inside or outside might make some theories more unlikely it would ultimately mean very little because it would not change anything. We don't know WHEN it was cut, if it was cut by the hikers from the inside or if it was cut by the attackers the day after from the inside. If the tent was cut from the outside it could have been done by an attacker at the time of their leaving the tent, it could have been done by a hikers for some reason to free their friends from the tent or it could have been done by an attacker the day after when all 9 hikers were dead.

I agree with you that to me it seems like someone killed them but knowing where the tent was cut from wouldn't do much to solve the mystery surrounding this incident.

[Georgi]

I'm fairly convinced Semyon's photo's image a helicopter and search light, and it is stated the military were in that area that night, that this is somehow connected to how the tent is as found.

If you were in a dark tent on a white mountain ridge in a communist country, and the military were suddenly all around you unexpectedly, you might feel a little too conspicuous, and if any of your number has reason to fear being asked to show ID and papers, or your permits are not 100%, you may elect to camouflage your presence as best you can and hide.

If Semyon's photo is a helicopter searchlight then the act of standing out in the open contradicts your idea of staying inconspicuous. (after all the photo is almost an entire orb of light not just a partial orb surreptitiously imaged through a tent flap). Their ID and paperwork managed to get them a long way so I'm struggling to see why it should be a liability if scrutinised by a patrol. There was also a directive at the time restricting the use of military transport. Some people have theorised the idea that exposing Senior military officer's wrongful use of helicopters formed a motive for eliminating the group. Also, I would think that if a helicopter is trying to locate the group it would be easier to try at sunrise - it's not like the tourists are going far.   
Personally, I place more importance on the not taking of shoes, coats whilst moving away from the tent etc. than I do on the cuts in the tent whether from inside or out.

Late reply as only just seen this.

The clearest photo of a lamp is not head on or it would flood out the exposure, and could have been taken through a viewing/breathing hole cut in the tent canvas.

The only photo which might suggest the hikers had been seen is the first frame, "3 heads",  where a bright light floods out the exposure. But if that light was in the distance it may not be spotlighting them (the beam falls short, onto the snow in front). Or it may not be heads at all which are silhouetted. Or it's a flare.

I don't think the military would be looking for the hikers, they would be looking for something else, most probably escapees, and such a pressing need would override the national no fly orders during annual KGB celebrations. There may even have been some chinese whispers about 'a group of strangers' seen heading that way (the hikers) and this got back to the military.

The hikers likely heard about the escapees from the people at Vizhay and may have chosen to site their tent where they did to avoid them. If so they would deduce what this activity was all about, but still have their own reasons not to want to get caught up in it all and prefer to go to ground.

Their paperwork wasn't 100%. Tibo and Yuri K didn't have permits for their fischer knives. Only Aleksander Kolevatov did.

If there were escapees and the hikers knew about them they would not have gone in and definitely would not have hid from the military since they could prove who they were and that they were loyal to the USSR. Hiding would have made them automatically guilty if caught and then the knives which might not be a big deal would have likely been enough to cause them serious problems.