Decision to leave the tent

[jhou]

This was obviously an experienced and tough group of winter hikers. Their background and history as well as the details of this trip tell that. They had already spent many cold nights in a <2x4m sized tent, apparently in relative comfort, all 9 of them. It's a stampede by today's standards. It helps keeping everyone warm, but still. Tough group. And the original plan was even more ambitious, with 10 people in that tent.

I don't know why they went up the mountain, but once they were there, setting up the tent the way they did was a good job too. i don't think the snow walls and banks were intended as disguise. It's normal procedure in winter camping to use snow to improve shelter, insulation and also to keep the tent sleeves firmly in place. They didn't set up the stove, but apparently it was warm enough inside, judging by the fact that many were sleeping in relatively light clothing.

And then they left the tent, with woefully inadequate clothing, in the middle of the night, in snow, in lethally cold temperatures and with no spare shelter available. They knew better. So, if that was considered the best course of action, how bad were the alternatives? This is the one part of the mystery I struggle to explain with anything else than a sustained threat of imminent and severe physical damage, by an outside human force.

Sustained, because they couldn't just hang around nearby and see if the situation would improve. They were forced to keep on moving downhill. Imminent, because they didn't have time to put on proper clothing. Severe, because going downhill practically naked was still better than staying put. And human, because despite of everything they descended peacefully and orderly, if we are to believe investigator's conclusions. You don't do that if you're chased by a Yeti, or there's a natural (or unnatural) disaster unwinding right next to you.

The problem is, the theory of outside attackers runs into all kinds of conflicts with several known facts as soon as the group starts descending. As described in earlier posts by other members already.

[Carlo]

This is undoubtedly the biggest puzzle of this whole case.

In my opinion, the only way we can come up with some reasonable theory is by thinking that maybe the rescuers were wrong when the said that they "they descended peacefully and orderly". Panickly cutting the tent from the inside, but walking out from the tent peacefully and orderly while half naked with freezing temperature in the middle of the night just doesn't make sense. Even if they were so afraid to cut the tent, why leaving the camp if they realized there was nothing to be afraid of?

BUT, if you think that maybe they left the camp running away, then you can think at many other theories, for example they heard some loud noises and they were afraid there was an avalanche.

[Marchesk]

BUT, if you think that maybe they left the camp running away, then you can think at many other theories, for example they heard some loud noises and they were afraid there was an avalanche.

However, it would take time to descend in the varying depth of snow and rocky terrain at night mostly without shoes. Time enough to reconsider whether there was a real threat, and return to the tent. Also, they would have known better than to go downhill to escape a potential avalanche.

[sarapuk]

This was obviously an experienced and tough group of winter hikers. Their background and history as well as the details of this trip tell that. They had already spent many cold nights in a <2x4m sized tent, apparently in relative comfort, all 9 of them. It's a stampede by today's standards. It helps keeping everyone warm, but still. Tough group. And the original plan was even more ambitious, with 10 people in that tent.

I don't know why they went up the mountain, but once they were there, setting up the tent the way they did was a good job too. i don't think the snow walls and banks were intended as disguise. It's normal procedure in winter camping to use snow to improve shelter, insulation and also to keep the tent sleeves firmly in place. They didn't set up the stove, but apparently it was warm enough inside, judging by the fact that many were sleeping in relatively light clothing.

And then they left the tent, with woefully inadequate clothing, in the middle of the night, in snow, in lethally cold temperatures and with no spare shelter available. They knew better. So, if that was considered the best course of action, how bad were the alternatives? This is the one part of the mystery I struggle to explain with anything else than a sustained threat of imminent and severe physical damage, by an outside human force.

Sustained, because they couldn't just hang around nearby and see if the situation would improve. They were forced to keep on moving downhill. Imminent, because they didn't have time to put on proper clothing. Severe, because going downhill practically naked was still better than staying put. And human, because despite of everything they descended peacefully and orderly, if we are to believe investigator's conclusions. You don't do that if you're chased by a Yeti, or there's a natural (or unnatural) disaster unwinding right next to you.

The problem is, the theory of outside attackers runs into all kinds of conflicts with several known facts as soon as the group starts descending. As described in earlier posts by other members already.

Well I dont think we have many cases of people being chased by Yeti's  !  ?  So we wouldnt know what its like really. It would be scarry thats for sure. Also you can only run or walk as the weather conditions allow. Still some debate about just how much snow and ice was around. And of course no other Footprints other than those of the Dyatlov Group, so we are told.

[sarapuk]

This is undoubtedly the biggest puzzle of this whole case.

In my opinion, the only way we can come up with some reasonable theory is by thinking that maybe the rescuers were wrong when the said that they "they descended peacefully and orderly". Panickly cutting the tent from the inside, but walking out from the tent peacefully and orderly while half naked with freezing temperature in the middle of the night just doesn't make sense. Even if they were so afraid to cut the tent, why leaving the camp if they realized there was nothing to be afraid of?

BUT, if you think that maybe they left the camp running away, then you can think at many other theories, for example they heard some loud noises and they were afraid there was an avalanche.

Yes well pointed out. Cutting the Tent in panic and then walking peacefully away from the Tent seems a bit of a contradiction.

[Jean Daniel Reuss]

    

This was obviously an experienced and tough group of winter hikers. Their background and history as well as the details of this trip tell that. .....................
I don't know why they went up the mountain, but once they were there, setting up the tent the way they did was a good job too..........
....... but apparently it was warm enough inside, judging by the fact that many were sleeping in relatively light clothing.........
..............................
 I struggle to explain with anything else than a sustained threat of imminent and severe physical damage, by an outside human force.
...............................
The problem is, the theory of outside attackers runs into all kinds of conflicts with several known facts as soon as the group starts descending. As described in earlier posts by other members already.

It is true that to date there is no irrefutable evidence that would be legally valid.

As a consequence, I follow the method - usual in science and history - of first developing complete and plausible hypotheses that are capable of explaining everything that is known, and then comparing the probabilities of these resulting hypotheses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetico-deductive_model
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive-nomological_model
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

There are those who think that there has been a staging and that the bodies have been moved. For example :

gildar :   Murdered ==>The tent was near the cedar. There was an attack : August 30, 2019, 04:27:02 AM

from Reply #1 to Reply #27

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=484.0
     PROXIUS :but unfortunately auto-translation fails big time and causes difficulties of understanding everything.

Gorojanin :General Discussion ==>  Forgery of photographs after January 26, 1959 : December 14, 2019, 05:13:19 PM
               

from Reply #1 to Reply #167

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=537.0

Teddy :    General Discussion ==> New Book on Dyatlov Pass Coming Up : December 18, 2020, 10:17:29 AM
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=756.0
  But she [Solter] worked at the morgue at the time of the events. Doesn't this count for something?
   This is the elephant in the room.
   Yes, this was the cat that swallowed the canary hiccup.
    ( We look forward to 1 February to find out more. )

°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

Well known pathologist involved with Dyatlov case, Eduard Tumanov, is pushing a theory that hikers took part in a fight, either between them or with outsiders.
Altercation on the pass ==> Altercation on the pass : April 08, 2019, 10:51:59 PM
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.0
So, I think that a hypothesis involving the action of other human beings can explain all the known facts.
Here, in summary form, are my 4 hypotheses:

Hypothesis N°1

This is the so called X-drug theory: The hikers fight each other under the influence of a drug mistakenly ingested on the evening of february 1 - a mistake somewhere has created a transient craziness among hikers - crisis of schizophrenic delusion in the form of Capgras syndrome.
Altercation on the pass ==> Altercation on the pass : February 03, 2020, 02:04:13 PM
   

from Reply #15 to Reply #18

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.msg8382#msg8382

Hypothesis N°2

Reprisals by some ex-Zeks for Stalin's crimes against 9 propagandists (hikers) who were supported by the central government in Moscow.
Altercation on the pass ==> Altercation on the pass :  May 07, 2020, 01:43:27 PM
                   

from Reply #20 to Reply #37

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.msg8977#msg8977
 

Hypothesis N°3

This is Aleks Kandr's thesis (unfortunately in Russian).
http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova
https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=1002.0
The suspects were NKVD officers in charge of the Gulag who feared the purges of the Khrushchev Thaw on the occasion of the 21st Congress of the PCSU (27 January to 5 February 1959). Dubinina's psychology is not forgotten, though not completely explained.
Altercation on the pass ==> Altercation on the pass : July 12, 2020, 03:45:51 PM
                                   

from Reply #38 to Reply #59

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.msg9988#msg9988

Theories Discussion ==> Infra-sound/Gravity fluctuation/Teleportation ==> Infrasound? Most unlikely : October 18, 2020, 03:05:21 PM                                         

from Reply #95 to Reply #118

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=116.msg10931#msg10931

Hypothesis N°4

The idea of a determining influence of infrasound was launched by WAB (but :"I says goodbye", November 29, 2020) which evokes Vladimir Gavreau.
Theories Discussion ==> Infra-sound/Gravity fluctuation/Teleportation ==> Infrasound? Most unlikely : April 08, 2018, 02:02:18 PM
                         

from Reply #2 to Reply #80

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=116.0
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=116.msg410#msg410
I am in the process of taking up this idea by introducing not naturally produced infrasound from WAB, but artificial infrasound which could be much more powerful.
   It is the secret test of a powerful infrasound generator, dropped by a heavy Mil Mi-6 helicopter at the top of the Kholat Syakhl, that is to say 800 metres from the tent.
       

[Ziljoe]

Tell us more?

[Star man]

They probably were never at the tent.

Regards

Star man

[Investigator]

They were young, except for the WW II vet, who tried to use the techniques used when he was a soldier to survive in an area that was less exposed to wind.  They wanted the highest rating for their trip, so that seems to be why they went without heat that night and pitched the tent where they did.  There are or were videos on Youtube showing that walking down the mountain where they did is not difficult, and we don't know how much moonlight there was (snow-covered ground can really make an area well-lit at night too, if there's some moonlight and little cloud cover).  The tent was likely about to collapse due to ice/snow buildup and the strong, relentless winds that come off the top of that mountain like an avalanche of air.  This would explain cutting it open and then securing it (otherwise their gear would have blown all over the mountainside, likely with the tent blown wide open.  They would sew up the tent before they packed it up to resume their treks (it tore during the night under much less harsh conditions and with the stove heating the tent), so they probably weren't too concerned about a cut in it.   They either thought they didn't need more clothing than they were wearing to survive (plenty of incredible survival stories in cold weather by the late 1950s in newspapers) and that time was crucial (to secure the tent ASAP), or the heavier gear was frozen up (I think they used their coats and clothing on the sides of the tent interior to act as a kind of insulation).  There were axes/knives in the tent that would have been helpful to start the fire, so unless those froze up too, this supports the idea that they were confident in their survival skills and the plan was to secure the tent and get to the trees ASAP, to start the fire.  Why didn't they take the blankets they were wrapped up in?  To me this is the key to formulating the most likely explanation: they were concerned about such items blowing away and were confident in their survival skils, and we can't know if the "ravine four" would have survived or not if they hadn't fallen onto the rocky creek, sustaining injuries and getting wet.  I think the "returning three" was actually Zina losing confidence in Igor after seeing one or both Yuris die, and then Slobodin went after her, but fell and lost consciousness (head strikes a rocky protrusion), then igor goes after her, but with the wind bearing down against them, it was a plan that could not work (and even if she got back to the tent, she likely would not be able to survive the night).

[Marchesk]

They probably were never at the tent.

Whoa! I've never seen or heard anyone suggest that before. All the theories seem to take for granted that they were settled in at the tent before things went down. Now it seems the tent being staged has gained popularity. But that would just mean it was pitched elsewhere, likely near the cedar tree. What leads you to think the hikers never got as far as pitching the tent that day/night?

[Marchesk]

They wanted the highest rating for their trip, so that seems to be why they went without heat that night and pitched the tent where they did.

I thought their hike as planned was difficult enough to suffice for level 3? I know some going back to the original investigation made the assumption that Igor wanted to test the group on the exposed mountain side, or that being behind schedule, he didn't want to have to redo the kilometer of elevation they gained on the 1st.

But those are assumptions.

[GKM]

I have to agree with Star man. I do not believe they were ever in the tent, at least not on that ridge. I also put very little stock in the footprints.

[Monty]

What do you make of the famous photo of them digging the trench that is the last recognisable one?

[Jean Daniel Reuss]

" Now it seems the tent being staged "  (Marschek)

Thus :
     The leaflet "Evening Otorten №1", is a typed fake (with mention of Yeti to deceive the rescuers and investigators).
The hikers would have been killed before 1 February 1959 and their bodies would have been transported on the slope of the Kholat Syakhl or near the cedar tree for staging in order to mislead the investigators.
(In agreement with  Gorojanin who even thinks that the hikers were killed near North-2, i.e. on the morning of 28 January 1959).

I am waiting eagerly for 1 February 2021 for more precise and complete explanations.

In order to be convincing these hypotheses implicating a staging will have to be compatible with the psychology of the 9 hikers and also with the noteworthy facts of the history of the USSR (Cold War, destalinisation, purges of NKVD elders by the KGB ...etc).

For the convenience of  Monty: Reply #12     - (loose photo N°11 and N°12)
The "famous photo of them digging the trench" that is the last recognisable one cannot indicate anything.
Indeed with other explanatory hypotheses, these 2 photos are also compatible with a shooting on the evening of January 31st.

°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

    Star man
Read starting from the date : January 14, 2021, 04:32:45 PM
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;u=409;area=showposts;start=0

    "I have a new theory in mind.  Well a few really, but one stands out.  I have been following Teddy's trail of bread crumbs and it has lead me to it.  It is something I had considered before but dismissed it as I believed the date I saw on another document.  You can fit the facts together in a different way and it seems to make sense.  This might sound strange -  but the scenes presented in the dpi might be a reflection of the human subconscious of those at the time."

             "The hikers were never at the tent on Kholat."


    GKM : Reply #11
I have to agree with Star man. I do not believe they were ever in the tent, at least not on that ridge. I also put very little stock in the footprints.   


    Teddy
Read starting from the date :  December 18, 2020, 10:18:17 AM »
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1;area=showposts;start=0
 ••• General Discussion ==> New Book on Dyatlov Pass Coming Up
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=756.msg11529#msg11529
"The six bodies of hikers that she prepared for burial before the Dyatlov group was missing of course. This is the elephant in the room.
This is what Solter is famous for. People are discarding her words as a nonsense because it is too weird. But for us it is a building stone.
It has been thoroughly researched that there was no other group that died anyplace close to Ivdel in that period of time.
Yes, this was the cat that swallowed the canary hiccup."


    Nigel Evans
Read starting from the date :   January 16, 2021, 03:12:55 AM
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=5
...There's horses and dolphins...   (  --> An enjoyable way to stimulate the sagacity of its readers).

 
    Marschek
"......All the theories seem to take for granted that they were settled in at the tent before things went down. Now it seems the tent being staged has gained popularity. But that would just mean it was pitched elsewhere, likely near the cedar tree. What leads you to think the hikers never got as far as pitching the tent that day/night ?"[/i]


   gildar
I can understand with difficulty and imperfectly the texts written in Russian using a computer translator such as  www.deepl.com/fr/translator - translate.yandex.com - ....etc.
On the other hand, I cannot understand gildar's videos.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=467
Try to understand, if you can, all the posts ( from 1 to 18 ).
 •••   Theories Discussion ==> Murdered ==> The tent was near the cedar. There was an attack
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=484.0


    Gorojanin
Gorojanin's explanations seem to me to imply a realization too complicated to be plausible.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=629
 •••   General Discussion ==> Forgery of photographs after January 26, 1959
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=537.0
   

       mwm.team
 •••   Theories Discussion ==> General Discussion ==> B-800, неоконченное дело (RUS)
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=782.msg12113#msg12113
I will continue later: These explanations could have been plausible in 1942. But they are certainly unbelievable in 1959..........

[jhou]

They were young, except for the WW II vet, who tried to use the techniques used when he was a soldier to survive in an area that was less exposed to wind.  They wanted the highest rating for their trip, so that seems to be why they went without heat that night and pitched the tent where they did...

A lot of good points in your post, thank you for that. I'm not going to quote it in its entirety.

There's one detail though where I must disagree: the survival skills part. They were from Russia. They had enough experience in winter (let alone winter camping) to understand that taking a hike barefoot is not going to end well in those conditions. They were either forced to do that, or if it was a joint decision on their part, then those not wearing proper footwear must have expected to be able to return very soon to retrieve it.

[sarapuk]

They probably were never at the tent.

Regards

Star man

What makes you think that  !  ? 

[sarapuk]

They wanted the highest rating for their trip, so that seems to be why they went without heat that night and pitched the tent where they did.

I thought their hike as planned was difficult enough to suffice for level 3? I know some going back to the original investigation made the assumption that Igor wanted to test the group on the exposed mountain side, or that being behind schedule, he didn't want to have to redo the kilometer of elevation they gained on the 1st.

But those are assumptions.

The hike certainly became very difficult. And they certainly didnt need to take on any more risk.

[sarapuk]

I have to agree with Star man. I do not believe they were ever in the tent, at least not on that ridge. I also put very little stock in the footprints.

But where is the Evidence to back those assumptions up  !  ?  The Tent in its final location is Evidence. The Footprints are Evidence.

[sarapuk]

What do you make of the famous photo of them digging the trench that is the last recognisable one?

Well it looks genuine enougth.

[sarapuk]

Jean Daniel Reuss.  You state the following ;

''The leaflet "Evening Otorten №1", is a typed fake (with mention of Yeti to deceive the rescuers and investigators).
The hikers would have been killed before 1 February 1959 and their bodies would have been transported on the slope of the Kholat Syakhl or near the cedar tree for staging in order to mislead the investigators.''

Can you provide proof to back up your statement. If not, then its pure speculation, and wild speculation at that.

[sarapuk]

They were young, except for the WW II vet, who tried to use the techniques used when he was a soldier to survive in an area that was less exposed to wind.  They wanted the highest rating for their trip, so that seems to be why they went without heat that night and pitched the tent where they did...

A lot of good points in your post, thank you for that. I'm not going to quote it in its entirety.

There's one detail though where I must disagree: the survival skills part. They were from Russia. They had enough experience in winter (let alone winter camping) to understand that taking a hike barefoot is not going to end well in those conditions. They were either forced to do that, or if it was a joint decision on their part, then those not wearing proper footwear must have expected to be able to return very soon to retrieve it.

There are a lot of details to disagree with. And the Dyatlov Group were all good Comrades and experienced in the wild outdoors. They would not take on any unnecessary risks.

[Manti]

If they were never at the tent, and died earlier, who would have the resources to transport them there, set up the tent, and stage everything? Surely there was plenty of time but those doing the staging wouldn't necessarily know that. Transporting them by hand through the forest is a multi-day task.. will leave traces, etc. Unnecessarily onerous and slow. Much more likely one would need to use a vehicle, and the only option is a helicopter, that can both take off from where they died and land where the tent was staged because it's a lot of manual labour to set it up the way it was found.. you need men on the ground not just simply drop the bodies. And then they had to fake the diary entries...

It seems like a lot of effort and resources for no gain. Because of the necessity of a helicopter, it can only be the military. But why?There are much easier ways to cover up the deaths, if that's what they wanted to do. Just make the bodies disappear. If one had means to stage an accident they also had the means to make them disappear and it's less effort and also less suspicious, everyone would just assume they are under the snow somewhere. If there's no tent to function as a waypoint, finding them would have been close to impossible anyway, even with the tent nearby it took many months to find the last four... Plus if they just disappear, there is no risk in leaving inconsistent and therefore suspicious details. Like getting someone's birthday wrong in a diary, why risk that?

Therefore it seems irrational to stage the accident.

And if it wasn't staged, it must have been the Dyatlov group who set up their tent.

[Star man]

They probably were never at the tent.

Regards

Star man

What makes you think that  !  ?

Everything at the tent is wrong.  We have a fairly orderly scene inside the tent, and then the whole side cut up and ripped open.  Whoever cut up and ripped through the side of the tent must have tidied up afterwards? 

Regards

Star man

[Star man]

They probably were never at the tent.

Whoa! I've never seen or heard anyone suggest that before. All the theories seem to take for granted that they were settled in at the tent before things went down. Now it seems the tent being staged has gained popularity. But that would just mean it was pitched elsewhere, likely near the cedar tree. What leads you to think the hikers never got as far as pitching the tent that day/night?

Its all wrong.  Everything.  The entrance facing the wind, the cuts near the entrance.  To cut through the seams where they did, would have been more akin to needlepoint than a panicked escape.  The orderly scene in the tent, given either a panicked escape, or even outsiders cutting it?  I can't  believe outsiders would not at least rifle through all of their belongings and pack packs?  No forensic analysis of the foot prints.  No toxicology report.  Shutting down the case.  Ivanov's disinterest when the rav 4 were found.  The flashlight with 10 cm of snow underneath it.  The missing cameras and film.  The missing knife at the cedar.  The strange reason for deviating off route and camping in an unsuitable exposed place, only to meet their fates the same night.  The strange way that those the with most significant injuries are conveniently found all together at the ravine.  How did they get to the ravine when they were all already dead?  The two Yuri's probably lived the longest.  Kolevatov probably died first.  The rest of the rav 4 were next, so how could they take tge clothes from tge Yuris?

Regards

Star man

[Star man]

What do you make of the famous photo of them digging the trench that is the last recognisable one?

Who do you recognise in the photo?

Regards

Star man

[Manti]

Its all wrong.  Everything.  The entrance facing the wind, the cuts near the entrance.  To cut through the seams where they did, would have been more akin to needlepoint than a panicked escape.  The orderly scene in the tent, given either a panicked escape, or even outsiders cutting it?  I can't  believe outsiders would not at least rifle through all of their belongings and pack packs?  No forensic analysis of the foot prints.  No toxicology report.  Shutting down the case.  Ivanov's disinterest when the rav 4 were found.  The flashlight with 10 cm of snow underneath it.  The missing cameras and film.  The missing knife at the cedar.  The strange reason for deviating off route and camping in an unsuitable exposed place, only to meet their fates the same night.  The strange way that those the with most significant injuries are conveniently found all together at the ravine.  How did they get to the ravine when they were all already dead?  The two Yuri's probably lived the longest.  Kolevatov probably died first.  The rest of the rav 4 were next, so how could they take tge clothes from tge Yuris?

Regards

Star man

The entrance of the tent was facing south. The prevalent wind is from NW. Indeed this is supported by the fact they failed to cross the pass, coming from the south, due to head-on wind. So the entrance wasn't facing the wind.

No toxicology report is indeed strange, but what are you implying? That the investigator knew they were poisoned and so omitted the toxicology report? And they did a radiology report which came back all negative..

"The strange reason for deviating off route and camping in an unsuitable exposed place, only to meet their fates the same night."Ok so I have my own views about this, but what can be said from their route map is that they planned to camp on the exposed ridge anyway, on the way back from Otorten. And the planned route towards Otorten was strange to begin with.. gaining altitude at the pass only to descend to the Lozva valley and lose it again, plus the snow is deep in the forest so progress is slower, although it might be too little snow (exposed rocks) on the ridge... But deviating from the route might not have been that unreasonable.

"How did they get to the ravine when they were all already dead?"
What points to them being already dead?
And what are you basing the order of their deaths on? And if it wasn't the Rav4 who took their clothes then who did?

[Investigator]

Considering all the time, effort/research, money, etc. spent on this case (and not other, similar ones), I find it amusing that nobody has simply stitched together two old canvas army tents of the same type and pitched it in the same spot with similar weather conditions!  Remember that the two tents were ripping apart under much better weather conditions and with the stove working.  Imagine that ripping happening, or worse, and all you've got is a blanket and the clothing we know they could put on.  You can't survive the night, they know they will freeze to death if they don't get out of there, but they also can't allow all their gear to blow all over the mountainside and the tent might get shredded to the point where it can't be repaired.  This seems like a fairly obvious "mystery," though due to evidence issues, we will never know all the details.  Lots of other outdoor disappearances and deaths that are more puzzling, as well as airplane crashes, etc.

[Monty]

Starman, (reply 24)
Not who but what. The last photo in the sequence appears to show the broken ski pole used to secure the tent. The first photo of the rescue party locating the tent appears to show the same, albeit from a reversed angle.

[mk]

Everything at the tent is wrong.  We have a fairly orderly scene inside the tent, and then the whole side cut up and ripped open.  Whoever cut up and ripped through the side of the tent must have tidied up afterwards? 

This has bothered me for a long time, since I first read the interview with Sharavin.  He is very clear about how the skis, backpacks, then quilted jackets were laid down, with the blankets over top.  He is asked specifically whether the blankets were crumpled up or smooth, and he replies that they were smooth.  I cannot imagine any emergency in which it is necessary to cut one's way out of a tent that would leave the blankets smooth and flat while 7-9 people scramble over them and through the exit hole in a panic.

I had often wondered why they didn't grab a blanket to take with them, if they had to exit the tent in a hurry without time for coat or shoes.  I could only surmise that the blankets were packed away and not easily available.  Again, not so.

To me, this greatly reduces the possible explanations for the scenario as it is found.

[Star man]

Its all wrong.  Everything.  The entrance facing the wind, the cuts near the entrance.  To cut through the seams where they did, would have been more akin to needlepoint than a panicked escape.  The orderly scene in the tent, given either a panicked escape, or even outsiders cutting it?  I can't  believe outsiders would not at least rifle through all of their belongings and pack packs?  No forensic analysis of the foot prints.  No toxicology report.  Shutting down the case.  Ivanov's disinterest when the rav 4 were found.  The flashlight with 10 cm of snow underneath it.  The missing cameras and film.  The missing knife at the cedar.  The strange reason for deviating off route and camping in an unsuitable exposed place, only to meet their fates the same night.  The strange way that those the with most significant injuries are conveniently found all together at the ravine.  How did they get to the ravine when they were all already dead?  The two Yuri's probably lived the longest.  Kolevatov probably died first.  The rest of the rav 4 were next, so how could they take tge clothes from tge Yuris?

Regards

Star man

The entrance of the tent was facing south. The prevalent wind is from NW. Indeed this is supported by the fact they failed to cross the path, coming from the south, due to head-on wind. So the entrance wasn't facing the wind.

No toxicology report is indeed strange, but what are you implying? That the investigator knew they were poisoned and so omitted the toxicology report? And they did a radiology report which came back all negative..

"The strange reason for deviating off route and camping in an unsuitable exposed place, only to meet their fates the same night."Ok so I have my own views about this, but what can be said from their route map is that they planned to camp on the exposed ridge anyway, on the way back from Otorten. And the planned route towards Otorten was strange to begin with.. gaining altitude at the pass only to descend to the Lozva valley and lose it again, plus the snow is deep in the forest so progress is slower, although it might be too little snow (exposed rocks) on the ridge... But deviating from the route might not have been that unreasonable.

"How did they get to the ravine when they were all already dead?"
What points to them being already dead?
And what are you basing the order of their deaths on? And if it wasn't the Rav4 who took their clothes then who did?

I will have another look at the wind and tent position thanks.

Yeah I do think that they would have found some toxins present in tissues that should have not been there.

I  terms of the rav 4 - they all have significant life threatening traumas.  There is nowhere nearby where they  could have got them.  There is also Solted's statement.

What do you think about the way they left the tent, the  ups and the tidy scene in the tent?

Regards

Star man