Rock Fall/Land Slide/mud Slide

[Star man]

Will be brief with this.  If the dpi was a cake then we would have some of the ingredients but no recipe.  Here are some if the ingredients:

1. The hikers and their injuries
2. Military
3. Solter's statement which indicates
4. a cover up and that;
5. Some of the bodies were very dirty and washed

I think Solter would have known the difference between smoke and dirt.  So let's assume the they were covered in dirt, possibly dried mud.  There are not many scenarios that you can make a cake with using the above ingredients.  Here is one:

The hikers were camped in the forest low down where it was more sheltered and near the frozen tributary.  The stove had been lit in the tent.  In the same area the military were undertaking a test of a high energy weapon.  Possibly underground, possibly over ground, but it is not the direct impact of an explosion that kills them.  In a high energy event (e.g a volcanic eruption) a large amount of melt water, ground vibration can cause liquefaction of the soil and a land slide.  If a high energy weapon was being tested in the vicinity, then it might be possible that a similar effect is created, even though the land is frozen.  A tumbling mass of mud, rocks, logs decends into the ravine along the same path that the water would take.  The tent is pitched near the stream.  Those outside shout a warning to anyone in the tent, or maybe they are all in the tent.  The Tent is hit with mud and boulders, and the hikers panic inside cutting the battered tent.  In their attempt to escape some are burned by the stove which has collapsed and is being thrown about inside. Some of the hikers get out relatively unscathed and make a dash for higher ground.  The Yuris scramble up a cedar tree and Dyatlov, Zina and a Rustem make their way up the ridge.  Lyuda, and Semyon are hit and crushed by large bolders.  Thibo is hit by large boulder to his head.  Kolevatove breaks his neck.  The tent is significantly damaged.

Regards

Star man

[DAXXY]

we would see the evidence of this mud and rock slide when the snow melted.  it was only a few weeks later they were found. It would appear as a barren area of ground.

[Star man]

we would see the evidence of this mud and rock slide when the snow melted.  it was only a few weeks later they were found.

No we wouldn't .  The bodies were cleaned up.  The cedar (the tallest tree around) was 75m from tge ravine, so even though tge Yuris scrammbled up for safety, I doubt it would have reached that far, so they would have been safe anyway.  There was no analysis of the terrain to look for mud slides or rock slides, because all the focus was on the tent on Kholat.  Three years is enough to remove traces after tge snow melts.

Regards

Star man

[Manti]

Now, this is just my personal opinion of course, but I don't think that is how the Soviet state apparatus would handle a coverup in 1959..

Accidentally killed a few hikers? Just make them disappear. Airlift the bodies the Arctic Sea, something like that. Weather report? It's going to snow. Good, no need to even clean up the scene, it will soon all be covered.

Appointing even a junior criminal investigator? Why? No crimes. No scene. No victims. They weren't even there. Who knows where they went, maybe they emigrated to America. One of them had a passport on him? Good. Just ask parents why they think he took that with him on a "hike".
They didn't submit the route plan to the university sports club? Good. Further seed for doubt about the group's intentions.They didn't take sleeping bags? etc. etc.

[Star man]

Now, this is just my personal opinion of course, but I don't think that is how the Soviet state apparatus would handle a coverup in 1959..

Accidentally killed a few hikers? Just make them disappear. Airlift the bodies the Arctic Sea, something like that. Weather report? It's going to snow. Good, no need to even clean up the scene, it will soon all be covered.

Appointing even a junior criminal investigator? Why? No crimes. No scene. No victims. They weren't even there. Who knows where they went, maybe they emigrated to America. One of them had a passport on him? Good. Just ask parents why they think he took that with him on a "hike".
They didn't submit the route plan to the university sports club? Good. Further seed for doubt about the group's intentions.They didn't take sleeping bags? etc. etc.

I think it was an accident and these were good kids.  Everyone was sad,  they did not want to make these good citizens just disappear.  They wanted to pay their respects and have a funeral.  So instead of the hikers they make the scene dissappear.

Regards

Star man

[sarapuk]

Will be brief with this.  If the dpi was a cake then we would have some of the ingredients but no recipe.  Here are some if the ingredients:

1. The hikers and their injuries
2. Military
3. Solter's statement which indicates
4. a cover up and that;
5. Some of the bodies were very dirty and washed

I think Solter would have known the difference between smoke and dirt.  So let's assume the they were covered in dirt, possibly dried mud.  There are not many scenarios that you can make a cake with using the above ingredients.  Here is one:

The hikers were camped in the forest low down where it was more sheltered and near the frozen tributary.  The stove had been lit in the tent.  In the same area the military were undertaking a test of a high energy weapon.  Possibly underground, possibly over ground, but it is not the direct impact of an explosion that kills them.  In a high energy event (e.g a volcanic eruption) a large amount of melt water, ground vibration can cause liquefaction of the soil and a land slide.  If a high energy weapon was being tested in the vicinity, then it might be possible that a similar effect is created, even though the land is frozen.  A tumbling mass of mud, rocks, logs decends into the ravine along the same path that the water would take.  The tent is pitched near the stream.  Those outside shout a warning to anyone in the tent, or maybe they are all in the tent.  The Tent is hit with mud and boulders, and the hikers panic inside cutting the battered tent.  In their attempt to escape some are burned by the stove which has collapsed and is being thrown about inside. Some of the hikers get out relatively unscathed and make a dash for higher ground.  The Yuris scramble up a cedar tree and Dyatlov, Zina and a Rustem make their way up the ridge.  Lyuda, and Semyon are hit and crushed by large bolders.  Thibo is hit by large boulder to his head.  Kolevatove breaks his neck.  The tent is significantly damaged.

Regards

Star man

The Tent looked ok to me apart from those mysterious cuts. The Bodies didnt look like they had been hit by a rockfall or land lide or mud slide.

[Star man]

Will be brief with this.  If the dpi was a cake then we would have some of the ingredients but no recipe.  Here are some if the ingredients:

1. The hikers and their injuries
2. Military
3. Solter's statement which indicates
4. a cover up and that;
5. Some of the bodies were very dirty and washed

I think Solter would have known the difference between smoke and dirt.  So let's assume the they were covered in dirt, possibly dried mud.  There are not many scenarios that you can make a cake with using the above ingredients.  Here is one:

The hikers were camped in the forest low down where it was more sheltered and near the frozen tributary.  The stove had been lit in the tent.  In the same area the military were undertaking a test of a high energy weapon.  Possibly underground, possibly over ground, but it is not the direct impact of an explosion that kills them.  In a high energy event (e.g a volcanic eruption) a large amount of melt water, ground vibration can cause liquefaction of the soil and a land slide.  If a high energy weapon was being tested in the vicinity, then it might be possible that a similar effect is created, even though the land is frozen.  A tumbling mass of mud, rocks, logs decends into the ravine along the same path that the water would take.  The tent is pitched near the stream.  Those outside shout a warning to anyone in the tent, or maybe they are all in the tent.  The Tent is hit with mud and boulders, and the hikers panic inside cutting the battered tent.  In their attempt to escape some are burned by the stove which has collapsed and is being thrown about inside. Some of the hikers get out relatively unscathed and make a dash for higher ground.  The Yuris scramble up a cedar tree and Dyatlov, Zina and a Rustem make their way up the ridge.  Lyuda, and Semyon are hit and crushed by large bolders.  Thibo is hit by large boulder to his head.  Kolevatove breaks his neck.  The tent is significantly damaged.

Regards

Star man

The Tent looked ok to me apart from those mysterious cuts. The Bodies didnt look like they had been hit by a rockfall or land lide or mud slide.

If you consider Solter's statement, the bodies were cleaned up.  She says they were very dirty.  How could they have gotten so dirty in the frozen wilderness?  If you look at the injuries, burns and Solter saying they were dirty, one possible explanation becomes an explosion with lots of smoke, dust and dirt.  The problem with this is that there is quite a variation in the severity of injury between the rav 4 and the others.  I am not so sure that the others could have escaped similar injuries if they were in the same area.  Also, solter would have known the difference between bodies black with smoke and bodies covered in dirt.  So, if we assume that they were camped in the forest below the mountain or anywhere there, then how could they have become so dirty and sustained such traumas?  If they were camped near the stream , which would be the lowest and probably the most sheltered place then some kind of flood of dirty muddy water, snow and ice could explain what happened.  You also need a reason for there to be a sudden torrent of fluidised snow, mud and ice.  If a large bomb had been detonated, the heat could melt the surface layer of snow and ice over a large area.  The shock wave and wind blast would also scour the surface lifting more snow and fluidising it.  The melted snow, fluidised snow would all of a sudden start to flow under gravity toward the water tributaries.  Just like an avalanche I suppose.  Very quickly forming a great surge into the ravines.  If you were in a tent with toggles securing the entrance and you are suddenly hit with a raging torrent it would make sense to try to escape as quickly as possible.  This could have been the terrifying horror that caused them to leave the tent with no clothes or footwear.  If some were outside they may have managed to flee to higher ground before they were hit by the torrent.  Those that failed to escape could easily have sustained the injuries we see in the rav 4.  If the explosion was nuclear, then the hikers that survived would be faced with its toxic aftermath as well as tge freezing cold, so they had no chance. 

Its also possible that the chest injuries were sustained when the frozen bodies were first being retrieved.  They have been accidentally dropped from a helicopter?

Regards

Star man

[Manti]

Did they step on a mine from the WW eras? Hence the mine detectors.
But then that doesn't explain leaving the tent or a coverup.

[sarapuk]

Will be brief with this.  If the dpi was a cake then we would have some of the ingredients but no recipe.  Here are some if the ingredients:

1. The hikers and their injuries
2. Military
3. Solter's statement which indicates
4. a cover up and that;
5. Some of the bodies were very dirty and washed

I think Solter would have known the difference between smoke and dirt.  So let's assume the they were covered in dirt, possibly dried mud.  There are not many scenarios that you can make a cake with using the above ingredients.  Here is one:

The hikers were camped in the forest low down where it was more sheltered and near the frozen tributary.  The stove had been lit in the tent.  In the same area the military were undertaking a test of a high energy weapon.  Possibly underground, possibly over ground, but it is not the direct impact of an explosion that kills them.  In a high energy event (e.g a volcanic eruption) a large amount of melt water, ground vibration can cause liquefaction of the soil and a land slide.  If a high energy weapon was being tested in the vicinity, then it might be possible that a similar effect is created, even though the land is frozen.  A tumbling mass of mud, rocks, logs decends into the ravine along the same path that the water would take.  The tent is pitched near the stream.  Those outside shout a warning to anyone in the tent, or maybe they are all in the tent.  The Tent is hit with mud and boulders, and the hikers panic inside cutting the battered tent.  In their attempt to escape some are burned by the stove which has collapsed and is being thrown about inside. Some of the hikers get out relatively unscathed and make a dash for higher ground.  The Yuris scramble up a cedar tree and Dyatlov, Zina and a Rustem make their way up the ridge.  Lyuda, and Semyon are hit and crushed by large bolders.  Thibo is hit by large boulder to his head.  Kolevatove breaks his neck.  The tent is significantly damaged.

Regards

Star man

The Tent looked ok to me apart from those mysterious cuts. The Bodies didnt look like they had been hit by a rockfall or land lide or mud slide.

If you consider Solter's statement, the bodies were cleaned up.  She says they were very dirty.  How could they have gotten so dirty in the frozen wilderness?  If you look at the injuries, burns and Solter saying they were dirty, one possible explanation becomes an explosion with lots of smoke, dust and dirt.  The problem with this is that there is quite a variation in the severity of injury between the rav 4 and the others.  I am not so sure that the others could have escaped similar injuries if they were in the same area.  Also, solter would have known the difference between bodies black with smoke and bodies covered in dirt.  So, if we assume that they were camped in the forest below the mountain or anywhere there, then how could they have become so dirty and sustained such traumas?  If they were camped near the stream , which would be the lowest and probably the most sheltered place then some kind of flood of dirty muddy water, snow and ice could explain what happened.  You also need a reason for there to be a sudden torrent of fluidised snow, mud and ice.  If a large bomb had been detonated, the heat could melt the surface layer of snow and ice over a large area.  The shock wave and wind blast would also scour the surface lifting more snow and fluidising it.  The melted snow, fluidised snow would all of a sudden start to flow under gravity toward the water tributaries.  Just like an avalanche I suppose.  Very quickly forming a great surge into the ravines.  If you were in a tent with toggles securing the entrance and you are suddenly hit with a raging torrent it would make sense to try to escape as quickly as possible.  This could have been the terrifying horror that caused them to leave the tent with no clothes or footwear.  If some were outside they may have managed to flee to higher ground before they were hit by the torrent.  Those that failed to escape could easily have sustained the injuries we see in the rav 4.  If the explosion was nuclear, then the hikers that survived would be faced with its toxic aftermath as well as tge freezing cold, so they had no chance. 

Its also possible that the chest injuries were sustained when the frozen bodies were first being retrieved.  They have been accidentally dropped from a helicopter?

Regards

Star man

Well That woman can not really be considered as a reliable witness. She may be a witness and has given Evidence but it still leaves a lot to be desired. If the bodies were cleaned up then how many were actually dirty  !  ?  And of course we have no photographs of those dirty bodies  ! ?

[sarapuk]

Did they step on a mine from the WW eras? Hence the mine detectors.
But then that doesn't explain leaving the tent or a coverup.

I think that the Mine / Metal Detectors were really intended to find bodies or materials connected to the Dyatlov Group.

[eurocentric]

I'll have to read her interview transcript again, but I don't recall Solter mentioning that after cleaning the very dirty bodies she was required to strip and rub herself all over with the contents of a barrel of alcohol delivered to the morgue ahead of the autopsies? The reason I mention this is a Russian author, Oleg Arkhipov, revealed this on the BBC podcast. He specifically mentioned the forensic team, but as a pathology nurse washing down the bodies she would surely need to do the same.

[Star man]

Will be brief with this.  If the dpi was a cake then we would have some of the ingredients but no recipe.  Here are some if the ingredients:

1. The hikers and their injuries
2. Military
3. Solter's statement which indicates
4. a cover up and that;
5. Some of the bodies were very dirty and washed

I think Solter would have known the difference between smoke and dirt.  So let's assume the they were covered in dirt, possibly dried mud.  There are not many scenarios that you can make a cake with using the above ingredients.  Here is one:

The hikers were camped in the forest low down where it was more sheltered and near the frozen tributary.  The stove had been lit in the tent.  In the same area the military were undertaking a test of a high energy weapon.  Possibly underground, possibly over ground, but it is not the direct impact of an explosion that kills them.  In a high energy event (e.g a volcanic eruption) a large amount of melt water, ground vibration can cause liquefaction of the soil and a land slide.  If a high energy weapon was being tested in the vicinity, then it might be possible that a similar effect is created, even though the land is frozen.  A tumbling mass of mud, rocks, logs decends into the ravine along the same path that the water would take.  The tent is pitched near the stream.  Those outside shout a warning to anyone in the tent, or maybe they are all in the tent.  The Tent is hit with mud and boulders, and the hikers panic inside cutting the battered tent.  In their attempt to escape some are burned by the stove which has collapsed and is being thrown about inside. Some of the hikers get out relatively unscathed and make a dash for higher ground.  The Yuris scramble up a cedar tree and Dyatlov, Zina and a Rustem make their way up the ridge.  Lyuda, and Semyon are hit and crushed by large bolders.  Thibo is hit by large boulder to his head.  Kolevatove breaks his neck.  The tent is significantly damaged.

Regards

Star man

The Tent looked ok to me apart from those mysterious cuts. The Bodies didnt look like they had been hit by a rockfall or land lide or mud slide.

If you consider Solter's statement, the bodies were cleaned up.  She says they were very dirty.  How could they have gotten so dirty in the frozen wilderness?  If you look at the injuries, burns and Solter saying they were dirty, one possible explanation becomes an explosion with lots of smoke, dust and dirt.  The problem with this is that there is quite a variation in the severity of injury between the rav 4 and the others.  I am not so sure that the others could have escaped similar injuries if they were in the same area.  Also, solter would have known the difference between bodies black with smoke and bodies covered in dirt.  So, if we assume that they were camped in the forest below the mountain or anywhere there, then how could they have become so dirty and sustained such traumas?  If they were camped near the stream , which would be the lowest and probably the most sheltered place then some kind of flood of dirty muddy water, snow and ice could explain what happened.  You also need a reason for there to be a sudden torrent of fluidised snow, mud and ice.  If a large bomb had been detonated, the heat could melt the surface layer of snow and ice over a large area.  The shock wave and wind blast would also scour the surface lifting more snow and fluidising it.  The melted snow, fluidised snow would all of a sudden start to flow under gravity toward the water tributaries.  Just like an avalanche I suppose.  Very quickly forming a great surge into the ravines.  If you were in a tent with toggles securing the entrance and you are suddenly hit with a raging torrent it would make sense to try to escape as quickly as possible.  This could have been the terrifying horror that caused them to leave the tent with no clothes or footwear.  If some were outside they may have managed to flee to higher ground before they were hit by the torrent.  Those that failed to escape could easily have sustained the injuries we see in the rav 4.  If the explosion was nuclear, then the hikers that survived would be faced with its toxic aftermath as well as tge freezing cold, so they had no chance. 

Its also possible that the chest injuries were sustained when the frozen bodies were first being retrieved.  They have been accidentally dropped from a helicopter?

Regards

Star man

Well That woman can not really be considered as a reliable witness. She may be a witness and has given Evidence but it still leaves a lot to be desired. If the bodies were cleaned up then how many were actually dirty  !  ?  And of course we have no photographs of those dirty bodies  ! ?

The thing is, if she is mistaken and her memory is failing, then she mistakenly provides several key pieces of info that consistently points to a cover up. 
Two girls within several days
Bodies cleaned and described but no autopsies
No relatives present for formal identification
Bodies flown straight to the city for burial.

All highly irregular.

She remembers the broken ribs and the skull fracture.  The correct number of girls. Etc.

When you put that together with the scene at the tent its clear that the scene is nonsense.

So if Solter is right then there cant be that many ways all the bodies could be so dirty.  An avalanche of snow, ice and mud into the ravine, triggered by an explosion of some kind.  That generates the terror required to escape the tent without clothes, the dirt, the reason for the Yuris to scramble up the cedar (even if the deluge did not reach that far up, they would not know that it wouldn't).  The hikers were going up the ridge to get away from it.  They were not going down to get away from something else.  I think it is a good candidate.  Better than my idea of using gorillas as test subjects anyway.

Regards

Star man

[Star man]

I'll have to read her interview transcript again, but I don't recall Solter mentioning that after cleaning the very dirty bodies she was required to strip and rub herself all over with the contents of a barrel of alcohol delivered to the morgue ahead of the autopsies? The reason I mention this is a Russian author, Oleg Arkhipov, revealed this on the BBC podcast. He specifically mentioned the forensic team, but as a pathology nurse washing down the bodies she would surely need to do the same.

Yes, I read about that.  At the time it made me think that the bodies may have been contaminated with something .  Maybe they were.

Regards

Star man

[sarapuk]

Will be brief with this.  If the dpi was a cake then we would have some of the ingredients but no recipe.  Here are some if the ingredients:

1. The hikers and their injuries
2. Military
3. Solter's statement which indicates
4. a cover up and that;
5. Some of the bodies were very dirty and washed

I think Solter would have known the difference between smoke and dirt.  So let's assume the they were covered in dirt, possibly dried mud.  There are not many scenarios that you can make a cake with using the above ingredients.  Here is one:

The hikers were camped in the forest low down where it was more sheltered and near the frozen tributary.  The stove had been lit in the tent.  In the same area the military were undertaking a test of a high energy weapon.  Possibly underground, possibly over ground, but it is not the direct impact of an explosion that kills them.  In a high energy event (e.g a volcanic eruption) a large amount of melt water, ground vibration can cause liquefaction of the soil and a land slide.  If a high energy weapon was being tested in the vicinity, then it might be possible that a similar effect is created, even though the land is frozen.  A tumbling mass of mud, rocks, logs decends into the ravine along the same path that the water would take.  The tent is pitched near the stream.  Those outside shout a warning to anyone in the tent, or maybe they are all in the tent.  The Tent is hit with mud and boulders, and the hikers panic inside cutting the battered tent.  In their attempt to escape some are burned by the stove which has collapsed and is being thrown about inside. Some of the hikers get out relatively unscathed and make a dash for higher ground.  The Yuris scramble up a cedar tree and Dyatlov, Zina and a Rustem make their way up the ridge.  Lyuda, and Semyon are hit and crushed by large bolders.  Thibo is hit by large boulder to his head.  Kolevatove breaks his neck.  The tent is significantly damaged.

Regards

Star man

The Tent looked ok to me apart from those mysterious cuts. The Bodies didnt look like they had been hit by a rockfall or land lide or mud slide.

If you consider Solter's statement, the bodies were cleaned up.  She says they were very dirty.  How could they have gotten so dirty in the frozen wilderness?  If you look at the injuries, burns and Solter saying they were dirty, one possible explanation becomes an explosion with lots of smoke, dust and dirt.  The problem with this is that there is quite a variation in the severity of injury between the rav 4 and the others.  I am not so sure that the others could have escaped similar injuries if they were in the same area.  Also, solter would have known the difference between bodies black with smoke and bodies covered in dirt.  So, if we assume that they were camped in the forest below the mountain or anywhere there, then how could they have become so dirty and sustained such traumas?  If they were camped near the stream , which would be the lowest and probably the most sheltered place then some kind of flood of dirty muddy water, snow and ice could explain what happened.  You also need a reason for there to be a sudden torrent of fluidised snow, mud and ice.  If a large bomb had been detonated, the heat could melt the surface layer of snow and ice over a large area.  The shock wave and wind blast would also scour the surface lifting more snow and fluidising it.  The melted snow, fluidised snow would all of a sudden start to flow under gravity toward the water tributaries.  Just like an avalanche I suppose.  Very quickly forming a great surge into the ravines.  If you were in a tent with toggles securing the entrance and you are suddenly hit with a raging torrent it would make sense to try to escape as quickly as possible.  This could have been the terrifying horror that caused them to leave the tent with no clothes or footwear.  If some were outside they may have managed to flee to higher ground before they were hit by the torrent.  Those that failed to escape could easily have sustained the injuries we see in the rav 4.  If the explosion was nuclear, then the hikers that survived would be faced with its toxic aftermath as well as tge freezing cold, so they had no chance. 

Its also possible that the chest injuries were sustained when the frozen bodies were first being retrieved.  They have been accidentally dropped from a helicopter?

Regards

Star man

Well That woman can not really be considered as a reliable witness. She may be a witness and has given Evidence but it still leaves a lot to be desired. If the bodies were cleaned up then how many were actually dirty  !  ?  And of course we have no photographs of those dirty bodies  ! ?

The thing is, if she is mistaken and her memory is failing, then she mistakenly provides several key pieces of info that consistently points to a cover up. 
Two girls within several days
Bodies cleaned and described but no autopsies
No relatives present for formal identification
Bodies flown straight to the city for burial.

All highly irregular.

She remembers the broken ribs and the skull fracture.  The correct number of girls. Etc.

When you put that together with the scene at the tent its clear that the scene is nonsense.

So if Solter is right then there cant be that many ways all the bodies could be so dirty.  An avalanche of snow, ice and mud into the ravine, triggered by an explosion of some kind.  That generates the terror required to escape the tent without clothes, the dirt, the reason for the Yuris to scramble up the cedar (even if the deluge did not reach that far up, they would not know that it wouldn't).  The hikers were going up the ridge to get away from it.  They were not going down to get away from something else.  I think it is a good candidate.  Better than my idea of using gorillas as test subjects anyway.

Regards

Star man

An Avalanche at the Ravine  ! ? Which is about a mile away, would scare the Dyatlov Group out of their Tent  ! ?    I  dont think so.

[Mark II]

Now, this is just my personal opinion of course, but I don't think that is how the Soviet state apparatus would handle a coverup in 1959..

Accidentally killed a few hikers? Just make them disappear. Airlift the bodies the Arctic Sea, something like that. Weather report? It's going to snow. Good, no need to even clean up the scene, it will soon all be covered.

Appointing even a junior criminal investigator? Why? No crimes. No scene. No victims. They weren't even there. Who knows where they went, maybe they emigrated to America. One of them had a passport on him? Good. Just ask parents why they think he took that with him on a "hike".
They didn't submit the route plan to the university sports club? Good. Further seed for doubt about the group's intentions.They didn't take sleeping bags? etc. etc.

This