Cover Up

[GKM]

So there was a cover up but In the opinion of some on the forum not the "right " cover up. A cover up all the way from Moscow, in other words, a cover up from the top. Always from the top. No middle men. Only the Big Guy would order a cover up. Teddy, if you ended the book with the yeti threw a tree that landed on the tent, aided by light effects from a hovering ufo and it was covered up because the Soviet Union did not want the West to know that they have discovered a mythical creature that lives in the Urals and plan to use it as a secret weapon every word would be believed. Teddy, have you ever considered removing this forum from your excellent website? Or perhaps a disclaimer that you do not support supernatural involvement in relation to the deaths of the hikers? Last question. Was there any evidence of crop circles or big cats anywhere near the tent? A question meant only to clarify, in case Moscow is covering that up as well. 

[tenne]

I believe there was a cover up and it was poorly done because the Russian government wasn't used to having to cover things up. Back then, people just vanished and if you questioned it, you joined them.

The question for me is, why would the Russian government bother to cover it up? what could be so bad that they would care enough to create this elaborate hoax? normally people just vanished, were killed, sent to jail etc and no one said a word so why bother this time?

[KFinn]

I believe there was a cover up and it was poorly done because the Russian government wasn't used to having to cover things up. Back then, people just vanished and if you questioned it, you joined them.

The question for me is, why would the Russian government bother to cover it up? what could be so bad that they would care enough to create this elaborate hoax? normally people just vanished, were killed, sent to jail etc and no one said a word so why bother this time?

But that's just it; affluent students and workers did *not* just vanish and if they did, lots of people *did* ask questions.  If they didn't feel safe to ask questions, we would not have all of the accounts of the families and friends who were asking questions.  This was no longer the time of Stalin and Beria.  While the shadow still loomed, people didn't just disappear.  Records were kept of arrests of dissidents and criminals.  Families knew where they had gone.  That isn't to say it never happened, but it was not as common an occurrence as us westerners would believe.

[tenne]

From what I know, they didn't ask questions then. they didn't demand answers. Yes, they are now (to an extent) but back then? one of the hikers was yanked from the trip because he didn't spend enough of his vacation helping others. Now does that sound like a government that people argue with. Not to mention the comment in the diary that they didn't have a choice when his replacement joined them? Not buying the "they had choices, they could ask questions" but honestly, unless we lived it, it is all supposition.

[KFinn]

From what I know, they didn't ask questions then. they didn't demand answers. Yes, they are now (to an extent) but back then? one of the hikers was yanked from the trip because he didn't spend enough of his vacation helping others. Now does that sound like a government that people argue with. Not to mention the comment in the diary that they didn't have a choice when his replacement joined them? Not buying the "they had choices, they could ask questions" but honestly, unless we lived it, it is all supposition.

It wasn't that Bienko was yanked from going due to not helping others; part of being a student was paying off your labor debt for them sending you to college.  Bienko had spent all of his vacations hiking.  He was getting a free ride to college while blowing off the responsibility of his labor debt, which was the agreed exchange.  He absolutely understood because he knew he had been blowing it off.  If the government was so authoritarian, would they not have forced him to do his labor debt well before then?  Or arrested him for thievery for taking his education and not living up to his side of the bargain?  Yet they did not.  If the government was so harsh, would two of the students have brought illegal weapons on the hike?   Would the hikers have bent the truth about dedicating the hike to the Communist congress in order to get Rustem and Krivo out of work?  Would Zolotaryov even be allowed to go, since his brother was an enemy of the people?
 The reality is not the black and white we often think of it as.

As for the families and friends asking questions, Rustem's father made quite a commotion demanding the authorities find his son and figure out what happened.  Kolevatov's sisters did the same; Rimma contacted people in the local Communist party and even contacted Moscow directly demanding they intercede.  Read Rustem's fathers witness testimony; he was SCATHING toward the "powers that be."  He did not disappear.  There were a LOT of questions asked then.  Heck, even Ivanov, who was read the riot act by Moscow, wasn't "disappeared." He went on with his career.  The UPI staff who were blamed for the disorganization of the group, got slaps on the wrist and the only person who was fired was then rehired like nothing had really happened. He didn't disappear and he lied to the authorities about receiving a telegram from Dyatlov saying he'd be late. 

[sarapuk]

So there was a cover up but In the opinion of some on the forum not the "right " cover up. A cover up all the way from Moscow, in other words, a cover up from the top. Always from the top. No middle men. Only the Big Guy would order a cover up. Teddy, if you ended the book with the yeti threw a tree that landed on the tent, aided by light effects from a hovering ufo and it was covered up because the Soviet Union did not want the West to know that they have discovered a mythical creature that lives in the Urals and plan to use it as a secret weapon every word would be believed. Teddy, have you ever considered removing this forum from your excellent website? Or perhaps a disclaimer that you do not support supernatural involvement in relation to the deaths of the hikers? Last question. Was there any evidence of crop circles or big cats anywhere near the tent? A question meant only to clarify, in case Moscow is covering that up as well. 

Forums allow people to interact and discuss all sorts of things. You can learn a lot from Forums. The Disclaimer that you suggest is like censorship. Unexplained Lights were seen in the area of the Incident during 1959. The Mansi have legends of creatures that they call Menk. This sort of information should defintely not be censored.

[tenne]

" If the government was so authoritarian, would they not have forced him to do his labor debt well before then?  Or arrested him for thievery for taking his education and not living up to his side of the bargain?  Yet they did not. since his brother was an enemy of the people? "

well, the fact that they didn't force him to do his labour debt and then suddenly, 2 days before a trip yank him off it? very suspicious in my mind.

The fact that they could just suddenly demand that he not go, when they knew he was going and said yes shows that they were very authoritarian and had total control.
 

[KFinn]

" If the government was so authoritarian, would they not have forced him to do his labor debt well before then?  Or arrested him for thievery for taking his education and not living up to his side of the bargain?  Yet they did not. since his brother was an enemy of the people? "

well, the fact that they didn't force him to do his labour debt and then suddenly, 2 days before a trip yank him off it? very suspicious in my mind.

The fact that they could just suddenly demand that he not go, when they knew he was going and said yes shows that they were very authoritarian and had total control.

I disagree.  I think it shows that he got caught not doing what he should have done long before then and his attitude was basically, "yeah, shucks, you finally caught me."  He didn't seem too bothered.  He knew he had to do it and he pushed it off until they told him no more procrastinating.  The deal was you get an education and in return, you do your labor debt (like community service.)  He renegged on his part of the agreement.  He knew it and he had no problem accepting responsibility for it. 

In the long run, it seems you have made up your opinion about the culture that they lived in and I don't think anything I add at this point would be productive to the thread. 

[tenne]

Yes, you are right that I have my mind made up about the era, as you have.