How cold in the tent with no heat?

[sarapuk]

I wonder if the down draft from the helicopters could compact that much snow.

The Soviet helicopters typically used turbo prop engines which is a kind of jet engine, so would be a lot of exhaust heat. Are you aware of the hot spot?

No I am not but when I get back to work I will ask them. I work at the airport and the helicopter mechanic has his office next to mine. I will get his input on Monday.  Like the trapper, he knows way more than me

if you have any questions you would like to ask an experienced helicopter mechanic whose helicopters work in the canadian rockies and do a lot of rescue missions, just let me know and I will ask him.

hot spot refers to an area close to the tent that appears in the photos to have melted. N.b. it's not referred to in the case files but it comes up when unusual warming of the tent area is discussed.

Is this the spot which is Circular  !  ? 

[tenne]

I wonder if the down draft from the helicopters could compact that much snow.

The Soviet helicopters typically used turbo prop engines which is a kind of jet engine, so would be a lot of exhaust heat. Are you aware of the hot spot?

Well, if I read Russian and trusted that any documents used to show a cover up would be available for public to see, I would agree. As I don't and I highly doubt they left documents laying around to prove it I am pretty sure I won't be able to do it

No I am not but when I get back to work I will ask them. I work at the airport and the helicopter mechanic has his office next to mine. I will get his input on Monday.  Like the trapper, he knows way more than me

if you have any questions you would like to ask an experienced helicopter mechanic whose helicopters work in the canadian rockies and do a lot of rescue missions, just let me know and I will ask him.

This line of the theory should be easy for you to prove.  Where did the helicopter come from?  There will be a paper trail and civilian workers aware of it being used that night, because it would need fuel and radio contact (I assume you mean the night of February 1-2 when Atmanaki's hiking group saw a flare type light near Otorten, since the only other light in the sky in February was the 17, and was determined to be a rocket.  Those were the only two nights of lights until March, so this helicopter dropping off their bodies and camp would have to have been the night of the 1-2.)  There are only a few helicopters out in that region during this time so it should be easy for you to narrow it down to where it came from.

Yes, all the records are in Russian which I don't read and I'm sure they left records of equipment and men used in a cover up, just lying around to be found. a breeze I'm sure

[tenne]

I wonder if the down draft from the helicopters could compact that much snow.

The Soviet helicopters typically used turbo prop engines which is a kind of jet engine, so would be a lot of exhaust heat. Are you aware of the hot spot?

No I am not but when I get back to work I will ask them. I work at the airport and the helicopter mechanic has his office next to mine. I will get his input on Monday.  Like the trapper, he knows way more than me

if you have any questions you would like to ask an experienced helicopter mechanic whose helicopters work in the canadian rockies and do a lot of rescue missions, just let me know and I will ask him.

This line of the theory should be easy for you to prove.  Where did the helicopter come from?  There will be a paper trail and civilian workers aware of it being used that night, because it would need fuel and radio contact (I assume you mean the night of February 1-2 when Atmanaki's hiking group saw a flare type light near Otorten, since the only other light in the sky in February was the 17, and was determined to be a rocket.  Those were the only two nights of lights until March, so this helicopter dropping off their bodies and camp would have to have been the night of the 1-2.)  There are only a few helicopters out in that region during this time so it should be easy for you to narrow it down to where it came from.

The Soviet Union had one of the largest militaries in the world, perhaps the largest? Which means lots of helicopters? The region was remote to vehicles (no roads) but no effort for a helicopter based in the Sverdlovsk area.


As for records, when the case was classified all original materials were confiscated so they will exist somewhere, probably with helicopter records should they exist! 

They did have a large military.  And one of Kruschev's pushes was largely reducing it in order to put more money into military technology (ie rockets.)  In 1959, while the relationship was not adversarial, Kruschev was quite upfront about reducing the power of the military (something he'd been working on since 1957, actually.)  However, we have records of all of the military and civilian aircraft involved in the search, so we know what was available in the area.  We have interviews with pilots and with the people who worked at the airfields, etc.  It should be relatively easy to either show that there was a helicopter missing the night of the incident, or that records for that night are missing (similar to the missing radiograms from late Feb when a pilot claims too have seen the tent before its discovery.)

Let me make sure I am getting this right. You think that the helicopters used in the cover up would be recorded as being used in the search? All the records are in Russian and I'm certain that any records of people and equipment used in the cover up have been destroyed.

[KFinn]

I wonder if the down draft from the helicopters could compact that much snow.

The Soviet helicopters typically used turbo prop engines which is a kind of jet engine, so would be a lot of exhaust heat. Are you aware of the hot spot?

Well, if I read Russian and trusted that any documents used to show a cover up would be available for public to see, I would agree. As I don't and I highly doubt they left documents laying around to prove it I am pretty sure I won't be able to do it

No I am not but when I get back to work I will ask them. I work at the airport and the helicopter mechanic has his office next to mine. I will get his input on Monday.  Like the trapper, he knows way more than me

if you have any questions you would like to ask an experienced helicopter mechanic whose helicopters work in the canadian rockies and do a lot of rescue missions, just let me know and I will ask him.

This line of the theory should be easy for you to prove.  Where did the helicopter come from?  There will be a paper trail and civilian workers aware of it being used that night, because it would need fuel and radio contact (I assume you mean the night of February 1-2 when Atmanaki's hiking group saw a flare type light near Otorten, since the only other light in the sky in February was the 17, and was determined to be a rocket.  Those were the only two nights of lights until March, so this helicopter dropping off their bodies and camp would have to have been the night of the 1-2.)  There are only a few helicopters out in that region during this time so it should be easy for you to narrow it down to where it came from.

Yes, all the records are in Russian which I don't read and I'm sure they left records of equipment and men used in a cover up, just lying around to be found. a breeze I'm sure

There is always a paper trail.  Helicopters require fuel, clearance, pilots, staff.  There are radiograms recording every flight.  But, even more, if the military was so strong that they could do such a shoddy cover up without fearing reprisal from citizens, why would they bother hiding documents? 

[Manti]

If there was a helicopter in the area, it might not be seen, first of all it would probably fly during the day and not at night but if it flew at night, it doesn't necessarily need lights, could just use an infrared (night vision) camera.


But surely the Mansi would hear it and talk about that in their testimonies? Instead of saying there was nothing out of the ordinary, they would note a helicopter flying to the middle of nowhere for no apparent reason

[sarapuk]

If there was a helicopter in the area, it might not be seen, first of all it would probably fly during the day and not at night but if it flew at night, it doesn't necessarily need lights, could just use an infrared (night vision) camera.


But surely the Mansi would hear it and talk about that in their testimonies? Instead of saying there was nothing out of the ordinary, they would note a helicopter flying to the middle of nowhere for no apparent reason

Think technology in 1950's USSR. Night Vision equipment was still in its early stages of development and fairly crude.

[tenne]

it was good enough to fly bombing missions, secret drops etc. I'm sure there wasn't a technological issue that would stop it

[tenne]

If there was a helicopter in the area, it might not be seen, first of all it would probably fly during the day and not at night but if it flew at night, it doesn't necessarily need lights, could just use an infrared (night vision) camera.


But surely the Mansi would hear it and talk about that in their testimonies? Instead of saying there was nothing out of the ordinary, they would note a helicopter flying to the middle of nowhere for no apparent reason

That is a good question and I'm not familiar enough with their culture to answer that. It may be something they would have shared with the searchers, it might not be. Did they mention the lights that were seen in the area or was the just other people who reported it?

They had just come through a war, radar had been invented. they were able to fly night time bombing raids, night time covert actions etc, this wouldn't have been an issue for them

[trekker]

it was good enough to fly bombing missions, secret drops etc. I'm sure there wasn't a technological issue that would stop it

Flying under Visual Meteorological Conditions at night was possible in the US Air Force at the beginning of the 1970s. So helicopters at night without searchlights are out of speculation.

The first binocular helmet-mounted displays (HMDs) were introduced into the US Air Force at the beginning of the 1970s. Parallel to this development, there was an expansion into thermal infrared ranges near the visible spectrum at the end of the 1970s.

https://military-medicine.com/article/2833-flying-with-night-vision-devices.html

[tenne]

We obviously are using different sources of information because the US was using helicopters at night in Vietnam during the war. Pilots didn't like flying at night and felt it was scarier than flying into battle but it was done. According to what I read, they used compass to find direction and navigated by the moon and stars, strangely, like we have been doing for thousands of years.

[tenne]

I talked to my helicopter mechanic and he yes, the helicopters would leave a melted spot. How big depended on the size of them. when I asked him if he thought they would fly in the night back then he said, quote "we have a saying, there are old pilots and bold pilots but there are no old bold pilots so there is always someone wanting to push the envelope"