why did they think it was a rescue, not a recovery

[tenne]

I am not sure what to title this but according to what I've read, there wasn't great care taken at the site when the searchers first arrived because they felt it was a rescue not a recovery but why would they think that?

If I have the timing right, they assume the event happened on Feb 1 because that was the date the tent should have been found in that area. If I'm wrong please let me know.

So the searches show up almost 3 weeks after the date the group would have been in that area. they find the empty tent with all the skis and equipment there. Why wouldn't they automatically realize that it was a recovery? its not like they showed up a day after in a moderate climate where people could live through the night without a tent and heat source

Given those conditions, in Siberia, I would think they would know it wasn't going to be a rescue and the chances that anyone lived were very very slight.

[Investigator]

That reminds me of Oliver Stone's "JFK" and similar, but less bombastic, conspiracy theorizing.  The short answer is that people are so far from perfect that we invented comedy!  As to the JFK assassination, why didn't the authorities keep track of LH Oswald that day?  Then there's the 9/11 attack and all the things the authorities should have done, and that's 2001, not 1959, and that led to around 3000 deaths and not 9.

[tenne]

Yes, but this could and should have been easily identified as a recovery when they found the empty tent weeks later. there is no reason to think that anyone survived after that

[Nigel Evans]

Tempalov did instruct the rescue group (by radio) to treat the tent area as a crime scene (and avoid) but they only got the message on return to base that evening after trampling around the tent on the first day.
The failure was not to ensure this was a standing order from the outset. This might explain Tempalov's replacement with Ivanov.

[tenne]

That is very good to know but here, in BC where I live, if a back country user is a few days late in those temps, no one is expecting a rescue. they always say "we are  holding out hope that we will find them alive" but everyone knows what that means

I think they deliberately made sure the scene was trampled and that's their excuse because no one who lived there expected to find them alive, IMO, hoped yes, but knew it wasn't a rescue

[mk]

That is very good to know but here, in BC where I live, if a back country user is a few days late in those temps, no one is expecting a rescue. they always say "we are  holding out hope that we will find them alive" but everyone knows what that means

I think they deliberately made sure the scene was trampled and that's their excuse because no one who lived there expected to find them alive, IMO, hoped yes, but knew it wasn't a rescue

I've always been suspicious of the decision to use fellow students in the initial SAR.  Tempalov says it was his idea because he thought friends of the hikers would be more motivated to find them.  Maybe--although that's a pretty big statement about the quality of SAR in Soviet Russia.  On the other hand, it's very convenient to have a crew of people who are adept at camping in the Siberian winter, but who are not necessarily adept at tragedy/accident/crime scene investigations.  And if they destroy possible clues, oh well, it was just the students.

[tenne]

good point. It looks like they wanted to make sure no one ever got the full story

[Nigel Evans]

That is very good to know but here, in BC where I live, if a back country user is a few days late in those temps, no one is expecting a rescue. they always say "we are  holding out hope that we will find them alive" but everyone knows what that means

I think they deliberately made sure the scene was trampled and that's their excuse because no one who lived there expected to find them alive, IMO, hoped yes, but knew it wasn't a rescue

Maybe a single person being a few days late is bad news but a group of nine is a different matter. There are scenarios with a few able bodied people caring for the injured were it could make sense to dig in and wait. Lots of firewood and shelter from the wind in the forest so staying warm wouldn't be a problem. So imo it was legitimate for the SAR to focus on rescue.

[Nigel Evans]

That is very good to know but here, in BC where I live, if a back country user is a few days late in those temps, no one is expecting a rescue. they always say "we are  holding out hope that we will find them alive" but everyone knows what that means

I think they deliberately made sure the scene was trampled and that's their excuse because no one who lived there expected to find them alive, IMO, hoped yes, but knew it wasn't a rescue

I've always been suspicious of the decision to use fellow students in the initial SAR.  Tempalov says it was his idea because he thought friends of the hikers would be more motivated to find them.  Maybe--although that's a pretty big statement about the quality of SAR in Soviet Russia.  On the other hand, it's very convenient to have a crew of people who are adept at camping in the Siberian winter, but who are not necessarily adept at tragedy/accident/crime scene investigations.  And if they destroy possible clues, oh well, it was just the students.

Imo the use of civilians throughout is an important feature of the case but i think that for the SAR it absolves Tempalov from "the dark side". His instruction to avoid the tent area missed them by hours which is far too small a margin for premeditation.

[tenne]

they shouldn't need instructions to avoid contaminating the scene, they should have been briefed if everything was on the up and up

[RMK]

That is very good to know but here, in BC where I live, if a back country user is a few days late in those temps, no one is expecting a rescue. they always say "we are  holding out hope that we will find them alive" but everyone knows what that means

I think they deliberately made sure the scene was trampled and that's their excuse because no one who lived there expected to find them alive, IMO, hoped yes, but knew it wasn't a rescue

Maybe a single person being a few days late is bad news but a group of nine is a different matter. There are scenarios with a few able bodied people caring for the injured were it could make sense to dig in and wait. Lots of firewood and shelter from the wind in the forest so staying warm wouldn't be a problem. So imo it was legitimate for the SAR to focus on rescue.

I agree, Nigel.  In the case files, Maslennikov even describes two such scenarios: "I suggested that any of the hikers could have sustained an injury to the leg, and the group helping the injured member could have slowed its movement. Commented that any of the participants of the group could have caught the flu and the whole group had to hide in a secluded place".

I imagine that at least a few of the students involved in the SAR feared the worst at the outset, but became more optimistic after finding the tent.  There were no dead bodies in the tent, for one thing.  For another, valuables were still in the tent, suggesting no foul play.

[Nigel Evans]

they shouldn't need instructions to avoid contaminating the scene, they should have been briefed if everything was on the up and up

Not if it's a rescue mission, the DP group could have moved most of the contents to the forest and left a note in the tent giving their location. After three weeks they'd be getting low on food, injured people could need urgent attention. To leave the tent for forensics could waste a day or two whilst a team prepares and flies out. The DP group didn't lose anything by the scene becoming contaminated and opening up the tent could have saved lives. The only losers are the downstream investigators like us. If i was Slobtsov i'd do what he did, whilst there's hope you have to act on it.

[tenne]

No one could survive 3 weeks in those temperatures without shelter. There is no way I would have hope it was a rescue mission. But you could be right and he thought for some reason there was some way they could have lived in -20 with no tent

[ash73]

I think it's just youthful arrogance and naivety, Dyatlov's crew was the elite team at the university so the students couldn't imagine anything happening to them. Most people at that age haven't had to deal with death. The bust-up with Ivan Pashin over the vodka is a good illustration; the older more experienced locals knew better.

[tenne]

I absolutely agree that the student searchers could have been naïve, hopeful etc but I don't understand why the people organizing it didn't expect it to be a recovery and give orders that would reflect that

[Investigator]

There was no evidence around the tent area of anything unusual, such as a puddle of frozen blood.  If the tent didn't hold up that night and they froze to death down at the tree area, there's no major issue, in terms of making sure the evidence is preserved in some sort of perfect, idealized way (that's what I'd guess they would have been thinking, as it is something I would guess most people today would think who weren't trained in investigative techniques).  They could not predict that after circa 2000, it would appear on internet lists of "great mysteries" and "disturbing incidents," and perhaps if they could, they would have had a good laugh and drunk more vodka!

[sarapuk]

I am not sure what to title this but according to what I've read, there wasn't great care taken at the site when the searchers first arrived because they felt it was a rescue not a recovery but why would they think that?

If I have the timing right, they assume the event happened on Feb 1 because that was the date the tent should have been found in that area. If I'm wrong please let me know.

So the searches show up almost 3 weeks after the date the group would have been in that area. they find the empty tent with all the skis and equipment there. Why wouldn't they automatically realize that it was a recovery? its not like they showed up a day after in a moderate climate where people could live through the night without a tent and heat source

Given those conditions, in Siberia, I would think they would know it wasn't going to be a rescue and the chances that anyone lived were very very slight.

 Many search missions have been confronted with the possibility of recovering bodies rather than survivors, but they still think positively. So why wouldnt the original search parties in the Dyatlov Case be thinking positively. In other words when the search began it was a search to find the Dyatlov Group all alive.

[sarapuk]

Yes, but this could and should have been easily identified as a recovery when they found the empty tent weeks later. there is no reason to think that anyone survived after that

But when the news of the Dyatlov Group being overdue was received the decisions taken were about finding the Dyatlov Group alive. No talk or thoughts about Crime etc.

[sarapuk]

That is very good to know but here, in BC where I live, if a back country user is a few days late in those temps, no one is expecting a rescue. they always say "we are  holding out hope that we will find them alive" but everyone knows what that means

I think they deliberately made sure the scene was trampled and that's their excuse because no one who lived there expected to find them alive, IMO, hoped yes, but knew it wasn't a rescue

Well I dont know what the terrain is like where you live or what the temperatures are but in some parts of the World in extreme conditions people have survived for many weeks, without proper shelter or equipment.

[sarapuk]

No one could survive 3 weeks in those temperatures without shelter. There is no way I would have hope it was a rescue mission. But you could be right and he thought for some reason there was some way they could have lived in -20 with no tent

Snow shelter.

[sarapuk]

I think it's just youthful arrogance and naivety, Dyatlov's crew was the elite team at the university so the students couldn't imagine anything happening to them. Most people at that age haven't had to deal with death. The bust-up with Ivan Pashin over the vodka is a good illustration; the older more experienced locals knew better.

All of the Dyatlov Group had experience of life and the great outdoors. In Soviet Russia they liked their children to grow up properly.

[Investigator]

Yes, but this could and should have been easily identified as a recovery when they found the empty tent weeks later. there is no reason to think that anyone survived after that

But when the news of the Dyatlov Group being overdue was received the decisions taken were about finding the Dyatlov Group alive. No talk or thoughts about Crime etc.

This may be the key, meaning the searchers/rescuers weren't likely thinking in terms of a crime.  And clearly they were not thinking that if the tent had collapsed during the night and they froze to death around the tree line, they needed to preserve that tent scene in order to explain something somewhere else.  They should have been thinking that, but clearly their investigative training is not consistent with most investigative training of today.

[sarapuk]

Yes, but this could and should have been easily identified as a recovery when they found the empty tent weeks later. there is no reason to think that anyone survived after that

But when the news of the Dyatlov Group being overdue was received the decisions taken were about finding the Dyatlov Group alive. No talk or thoughts about Crime etc.

This may be the key, meaning the searchers/rescuers weren't likely thinking in terms of a crime.  And clearly they were not thinking that if the tent had collapsed during the night and they froze to death around the tree line, they needed to preserve that tent scene in order to explain something somewhere else.  They should have been thinking that, but clearly their investigative training is not consistent with most investigative training of today.

Well it may be the key to how the Search for the Dyatlov Group began. Iam sure we are all aware of the fact that people can survive in extraordinary situations for some time. That fact would not have been lost on the Authorities when they began to send Searchers.

[Manti]

Some assumptions the searchers could have had:

• Maybe the group camped there on the way back from Otorten. This shortens the time since any supposed incident by at least a few days
• Maybe they found shelter in a cave. They would be low on food but it's not completely impossible to survive
• Maybe some of them got injured and they seeked help from the Mansi and are staying with them, and couldn't inform the outside world yet

So even after finding the abandoned tent it could have still been assumed some are alive. After digging it up and finding all the skis underneath... I'm not so sure but then the scene has already been "trampled"