Shestopalov ordered to the pass.. was it on 14-Feb or 14-Mar?

[Manti]

From https://dyatlovpass.com/shestopalov?rbid=1841
At the end of the article:

We dug up all the orders for 1959 and each one looks the same. Notice that the sappers are sent to the pass "on the basis of the telephone message of military unit 01662", i.e. telephone messages of the brigade, the higher management of a large formation. This was not the initiative of the commander of military unit 24594 himself, he was ordered from above. Look at the date... I believe that we actually found a smoking gun. Firstly, the very fact that Shestopalov is investigating something at the pass, and secondly... February again. Will they say again "well, this must be another mistake".

And here is the image:

Indeed the date at the end is 14.II.59g.

But just above that, isn't "s 14 Marta" written? That is, 14th of March?
Is this a coincidence or is 14.II. indeed a mistake?


Update: translated image:

(note the translation algorithm has mistaken II. for П = P)

[KFinn]

According to his Whois entry, Shestopalov was "on work trips to Ivdel from March 2 to March 13, 1959; March 18-23, 1959; from March 31 to April 30, 1959," those work trips being the search (in the radio grams, "The officers named below shall be deemed to have departed on a business trip.")

I think the 14.11 is a misdate, personally but I don't discount much of anything with this case!  Either way, excellent question!!

[sarapuk]

According to his Whois entry, Shestopalov was "on work trips to Ivdel from March 2 to March 13, 1959; March 18-23, 1959; from March 31 to April 30, 1959," those work trips being the search (in the radio grams, "The officers named below shall be deemed to have departed on a business trip.")

I think the 14.11 is a misdate, personally but I don't discount much of anything with this case!  Either way, excellent question!!

Lieutenant Colonel M.F. Shestopalov in Ivdel from Mar 2 to Mar 15, 1959. It seems he was flitting back and forth. That reference to February is probably not significant. Also, its not unusual for the Military to be involved in 'Rescue Operations', we have seen it many times around the World.

[Senior Maldonado]

Quote from the above mentioned article (https://dyatlovpass.com/shestopalov?rbid=1841):

On March 2, an order appears in the order book of the 5th Railway Brigade for personnel:

"The officers named below shall be deemed to have departed on a business trip:
Colonel engineer A.K. Romanenko in Ivdel from Mar 2 to Mar 6, 1959
Engineer-colonel A.I. Svitov in Ivdel from Mar 2 to Mar 6, 1959
Major E.N. Pepelyaev in Ivdel from Mar 2 to Mar 6, 1959
Major S.M. Dorozhkin in Ivdel from Mar 2 to Mar 6, 1959
Lieutenant Colonel M.F. Shestopalov in Ivdel from Mar 2 to Mar 15, 1959
Major A.A. Maksimov in Ivdel from Mar 2 to Mar 15, 1959

Signature: Chief of Staff of military unit 01662 Colonel Chugunov."

It is clear that 6 officers ranked Major and higher are not needed to search 5 students' bodies (4 had been already found). And all of them were engineers from Railway brigade, not scouts. Yes, Shestopalov probably coordinated a group of sappers on Dyatlov Pass. And it's a big question what sappers tried to find there, as the hikers had left all metallic things in the tent, when they fled it. As for the rest 5 officers, evacuation of rocket's remains by railroad seems to be a good idea, isn't it? )

[Ziljoe]

Quote from the above mentioned article (https://dyatlovpass.com/shestopalov?rbid=1841):

On March 2, an order appears in the order book of the 5th Railway Brigade for personnel:

"The officers named below shall be deemed to have departed on a business trip:
Colonel engineer A.K. Romanenko in Ivdel from Mar 2 to Mar 6, 1959
Engineer-colonel A.I. Svitov in Ivdel from Mar 2 to Mar 6, 1959
Major E.N. Pepelyaev in Ivdel from Mar 2 to Mar 6, 1959
Major S.M. Dorozhkin in Ivdel from Mar 2 to Mar 6, 1959
Lieutenant Colonel M.F. Shestopalov in Ivdel from Mar 2 to Mar 15, 1959
Major A.A. Maksimov in Ivdel from Mar 2 to Mar 15, 1959

Signature: Chief of Staff of military unit 01662 Colonel Chugunov."

It is clear that 6 officers ranked Major and higher are not needed to search 5 students' bodies (4 had been already found). And all of them were engineers from Railway brigade, not scouts. Yes, Shestopalov probably coordinated a group of sappers on Dyatlov Pass. And it's a big question what sappers tried to find there, as the hikers had left all metallic things in the tent, when they fled it. As for the rest 5 officers, evacuation of rocket's remains by railroad seems to be a good idea, isn't it? )

I think the answer to sappers is self evident , it is a other thing that shows nothing was pre planned .

The first four were found but two of that 4 were found under the snow, Zina and Dyatlov. It is in that first ravine or creek that they suspect the rest of the hikers lie. The metal detectors are part of the thinking of how to find the rest of the bodies. When it is highlighted that most of the equipment is still on the tent, they then get the sappers to use poles

It is the the creek the search and another request is put forward for some sort of echo sound, this again is refused as such a thing doesn't exist.

The sappers are called because the suspect the hikers are under the snow where zina is .

[Senior Maldonado]

The sappers are called because the suspect the hikers are under the snow where zina is .

Idea to engage sappers for searching the remaning bodies was questionable from the very beginning. It was clear that the hikers had left the tent in a hurry, and they had not managed to take big metallic things that could be spotted by sappers' detectors. Why not to add more dogs instead of sappers? Zina's body was found by a dog. so that method proved to be effective. How effective the suppers were, they showed when they failed to find Rustem's body, which was not that far from the spot where Zina had been found.

When it is highlighted that most of the equipment is still on the tent, they then get the sappers to use poles

Again, not effective. Sappers are professionals trained to use detectors. Searching with poles is low qualified job, which can be easily done by students and Ivdellag soldiers. Anyway, Senior Lieutenant Avenburg would have been enough to manage the group of sappers, involvement of Lieutenant Colonel Shestopalov was redundant. And if we recall that 5 more high ranking officers arrived to Ivdel together with Shestopalov, we can suppose that searching the bodies was not their only task in Ivdel.

[Ziljoe]

The sappers are called because the suspect the hikers are under the snow where zina is .

Idea to engage sappers for searching the remaning bodies was questionable from the very beginning. It was clear that the hikers had left the tent in a hurry, and they had not managed to take big metallic things that could be spotted by sappers' detectors. Why not to add more dogs instead of sappers? Zina's body was found by a dog. so that method proved to be effective. How effective the suppers were, they showed when they failed to find Rustem's body, which was not that far from the spot where Zina had been found.

When it is highlighted that most of the equipment is still on the tent, they then get the sappers to use poles

Again, not effective. Sappers are professionals trained to use detectors. Searching with poles is low qualified job, which can be easily done by students and Ivdellag soldiers. Anyway, Senior Lieutenant Avenburg would have been enough to manage the group of sappers, involvement of Lieutenant Colonel Shestopalov was redundant. And if we recall that 5 more high ranking officers arrived to Ivdel together with Shestopalov, we can suppose that searching the bodies was not their only task in Ivdel.

It is slightly confusing but we can look at the logic of the the unfolding event's. The UPI were slow in starting the search , there was also confusion of another hiking group being late to return from their hike but they turned up . Once this is understood, the organisation of a search gets underway. There is another delay as the search organisers aren't fully aware of Dyatovs route.Dyatlov and the UPI didn't seem to follow procedures for this and it was another friend or student that came forward with Dyatlovs intended route as I think dyatlov had discussed this with him.

So the search parties are organised to be dropped at various stages around the whole 200km loop in the hope of finding them alive . ( There is no need for metal detectors at this point because they don't if they are alive or dead).

Those search parties dropped off from the 21st on the ground are looking for the hikers or their trails . The searchers are made up of many people and back grounds, those that are fit and have mountain experience or knowledge of the area are chosen because of this. Resources of the military are also used and is a standard procedure , not all military staff are frontline.

When the tent is found they call all the other search parties to that area at 1079. Plans are made for a base camp and there will be engineering duties needing done in parallel with having a go with a metal detector. I would think the sappers are not just utilised for their metal detector. There will be digging, landing pad , campsite , looking to be done that may need a bit of engineering knowledge.

So the dogs and sappers are requested after they know some bodies are buried and the early suspicion is that the hikers are all in the creek bed or ravine where ZIna and Igor were found . That is a logical assumption given what they discovered on the first days. They know that the snow depth is up to two meters deep in places in that creek and that's what the drawing with red hash marks is about and the search area.

There would be no need for more dogs or sappers because both are limited in deep snow. This is why the probs were used and more probes were requested. The probing was hard work and all people were used in those tasks because of the harsh conditions and lack of manpower.

It was a probe that found rustem ,so the dog missed him too. They even requested a sound echo device that they thought existed by word of mouth. It turned out that there was no such thing.

Sappers are trained in many things, building bridges , digging holes , engineering projects , dams etc etc. the are man power that is needed and probing the snow is neither low or high qualified job, it is a necessity when searching and is done by many qualified people when they search.

I think Shestopalov was reported to have been wondering about probing randomly.

If they were looking for bits of rocket , I think the others there would have seen the activity, there wasn't anywhere to hide on the slope , at the helicopter site or base camp. ?

[Senior Maldonado]

If they were looking for bits of rocket , I think the others there would have seen the activity, there wasn't anywhere to hide on the slope , at the helicopter site or base camp. ?

I think we cannot rule out completely that the sappers looked for small bits of rocket. The whole picture does not look contradictory. While Shestopalov and his team of sappers searched for small bits on the slope, the rest 5 officers defined in Ivdel the best way to evacuate large bits of rocket (found and moved out from the spot in February) by railroad. Conceling discoveries of small metallic particles is a piece of cake -- pick up a particle and put it into backpack. Sappers' detectors are intended to find metallic things first of all. Whether metallic things are accompanied by dead bodies, that's another story.

Of course, you may be completely right, and the sappers truly wanted to find the bodies only, detecting coins, knives, etc in their pockets.

[Ziljoe]

If they were looking for bits of rocket , I think the others there would have seen the activity, there wasn't anywhere to hide on the slope , at the helicopter site or base camp. ?

I think we cannot rule out completely that the sappers looked for small bits of rocket. The whole picture does not look contradictory. While Shestopalov and his team of sappers searched for small bits on the slope, the rest 5 officers defined in Ivdel the best way to evacuate large bits of rocket (found and moved out from the spot in February) by railroad. Conceling discoveries of small metallic particles is a piece of cake -- pick up a particle and put it into backpack. Sappers' detectors are intended to find metallic things first of all. Whether metallic things are accompanied by dead bodies, that's another story.

Of course, you may be completely right, and the sappers truly wanted to find the bodies only, detecting coins, knives, etc in their pockets.

The sappers would just be doing what they were told. These radiograms give us an idea what is going on ,,although they are a bit muddled. The dogs arrived and I think there's talk about removing them also. The weather has been awful and some of the searchers are tired . Some have been injured and the visibility can be poor. Rotation shifts are requested as some of the civilians are missing classes and other duties . It's basically volunteers supporting the military/ investigators and everyone gets rotated as they can't stay indefinitely until the bodies are found. There is mention of the rockets , hurricanes too but the search seems innocent enough but they are short of people and all of the payloads are being monitored.


Sheet 161

Radiogram

1/III 18 h

Maslennikov

Axelrod and his group were taken to Ivdel
Please let us know what assistance is needed to continue the search.
Consider again the advisability of sending dogs
Zaostrovsky

Sulman

 

Sheet 162

Radiogram

I/III 18 50 (?)

Maslennikov

We believe it is imperative that the search continue until all the missing people are located. Bad weather should not be allowed to compromise the search efforts.
There's a proposal to send you sappers with mine detectors. Let me know what you think.
According to forecasts, no sharp deterioration in the weather is expected in the coming days.
Zaostrovsky

Sulman

 

Sheet 163

Radiogram

I/III 18 h

Maslennikov

If the weather is good, a helicopter will be dispatched to you at 1:00 PM. Prepare to transport the bodies and any sick or unneeded personnel. Your suggestion is correct; we will take steps to replenish the team by March 2-3.

Sulman

Zaostrovsky

Artyukov

 

Sheet 164

Radiogram

1.III.59

Sulman

There are no sick people, but there are too few of them to complete the task, and some of them are tired.

Melnikov

 

Sheet 165

Radiogram

Received by Temnikov

1.3. 1630

Sulman

The 30-member detachment is doing well; everyone is working together and organized. However, if bad weather persists for three or four days, and you grant permission, we can travel under our own steam to Severnoye Lozva in two days, where we can be picked up by helicopter. We can prepare a landing site in the middle reaches of the Auspiya.

Maslennikov

 

Sheet 166

Radiogram

Received by Temnikov

1/3 1635

Sulman

The search can continue, but half the team needs to be replaced with fresher forces. Slobov and the Mansi group need to be removed. Sappers would be more helpful with probes than mine detectors, as the men don't have any metal items under the snow. We need 2.5-meter probes, each 20 mm. Today's report indicates that worsening weather is expected from March 2nd to 4th. If not, we'll be glad, as a severe snowstorm is raging behind our tent and the weather is getting worse by the hour. We also want to inform you that on our way back from the search at 4:00 PM, we picked up the food supplies sent over and dropped them off. Please send newspapers next time.

Maslennikov

Received by Temnikov

1/3 1635

Sulman

The search can continue, but half the team needs to be replaced with fresher forces. Slobov and the Mansi group need to be removed. Sappers would be more helpful with probes than mine detectors, as the men don't have any metal items under the snow. We need 2.5-meter probes, each 20 mm. Today's report indicates that worsening weather is expected from March 2nd to 4th. If not, we'll be glad, as a severe snowstorm is raging behind our tent and the weather is getting worse by the hour. We also want to inform you that on our way back from the search at 4:00 PM, we picked up the food supplies sent over and dropped them off. Please send newspapers next time.

Maslennikov

 

Sheet 167

Radiogram

Sulman

2/III-59 – 18.30

Searches in the Lozva Valley were unsuccessful today. Twenty-two people climbed the pass and were forced to turn back due to a snowstorm, no visibility, period. Instead, they prepared firewood and fortified the camp, preparing it for the arrival of reinforcements, period. The search party of Slabtsov and Kurikov found Dyatlov's storage shed 400 meters from our tent higher up the Auspiya. In the storage shed, nineteen types of food were found, weighing 55 kg, as well as a spare first aid kit, Dyatlov's warm boots, one pair of ski boots, a mandolin, a set of batteries with light bulbs, and a spare set of skis, period. The list and weight of the food are indicated in Ivanov's report, period. The food, by the latter's decision, was left in the camp. Moving from the place of the discovered overnight stay with the storage shed to the pass in bad weather, Dyatlov's group could well have mistaken the ridge of the spur of Mount 1079 for the pass to Lozva, period. But the main mystery of the tragedy remains the exit of the entire group from the tent, period. The only thing besides An ice axe found outside the tent and a Chinese lantern on its roof confirm the likelihood of one clothed person leaving the tent, which gave everyone else some reason to hastily abandon the tent.

The reason could have been some extraordinary natural phenomenon or the flight of a meteorological rocket, which was seen on January/February in Ivdel and on February 17 by Karelin's group, period. Tomorrow we will continue the search together with new forces and will send the planned cargo, period. Minor messages: 01. Chernyshov and Sidorov's group unanimously ask to leave the latter here, period. 2. Candles are needed, five pieces left. 3. Kurikov's group is being sent back tomorrow morning. I gave them a certificate of their work, period. 4. Please send a telegram to Sverdlovsk, Pervomayskaya, 104, Energofermet, Maslennikova, I am in the mountains, Zhenya is healthy.

Maslennikov

I ask that the sappers be required to work with probes after the mine detectors. 2. The coordinates of the storage shed have been communicated to you. 3. Give consent to Sidorov's resignation. 4. Except for three members of Sladkov's group, all the other students are already leaving. Blinov has missed a lot of classes. 5. Please call me for a report and a decision on the issue of detachment leadership.

Maslennikov

 

Sheet 168

Radiogram

Sulman

2/III-13.30

Today we will be looking for a storage shed in the upper reaches of the Auspiya, period. We are sending duty officers to the helipad in case of a helicopter landing, period. We are sending a group beyond the pass to search for the injured, period. The first flight will send Ivanov Yarovoy with 4 corpses, the second with 6 people from Slabtsov's group, period. Questions for the dvtch: send Chernyshev's group four hoods from the patrol cloaks, period. 2. Did one or two flights arrive? 3 helicopters or one in two flights 4 instead of Mansi there is no need to send others, this is our opinion and Nevolin's, period 4 Since the area of ​​work is quite defined by its nature of work requires other experience, I consider it appropriate to entrust the leadership of the detachment to Captain Chernyshov, especially since the detachment is becoming military in composition, period The detachment and Chernyshov have agreed on this matter, period The question of removing Blinov, Borisov, and Sergeant is also being raised, period It would be good to clarify whether a new type of meteorological rocket flew over the accident area on the evening of February 1st, period 6 Thank you for your concern in the food parcel, we ask for butter, halva, condensed milk, sugar, coffee, tea, cigarettes

Maslennikov

 

Sheet 169

Radiogram

Received by Temnikov

1/3 1500

Sulman

1/3 of '58. Today, despite a sharp deterioration in the weather, the search continued, covering approximately 1,000 meters of a 30-meter-wide zone near the victims' stop. The search yielded nothing; snow was 1-2 meters deep or more. Today, the wind reached 30 meters, making visibility impossible. Therefore, the search cannot be continued in this weather. Regarding the feasibility of further searches, it can be said that even in good weather, searching in this area may yield nothing. At the very least, at least 100 people would be needed. If the weather were good, one or two more areas could be searched.

Maslennikov


Sheet 171

Radiogram

Radiogram

Accepted 3/3 1240

Accepted (inaudible)

From xxxxx #XX

Address 3/3 – 59 Sulman

A team of sappers arrived, 8 people safely reached the camp. The bodies were sent by helicopter. A prosecutor and a correspondent also flew out. 17 people are participating in the search. The weather was better this morning, but now the wind is picking up. The search continues.

Chernyshev

Nevolin

 

Sheet 172

Radiogram

Received by Sysoev

There is a section left - - - one and a half kilometers long and 100 meters wide that needs to be covered with probes, period. This will complete the entire work. There is nowhere else to look, period. It will take 3 days if the weather doesn't get even worse.

Maslennikov

 

Sheet 173

Radiogram

Atmanaki, their addresses are with Ivanov. 3. Graduate student Korolev left the institute without registration. Please call. 4. We need to send garlic. 5. Tell the relatives of Chernyshev's group that everyone is alive and well. 6. We need to prepare to replace the remaining students with army men.

Maslennikov

 

Sheet 174

Radiogram

The amount of work done, the location of the cut spruce branches, gives reason to assume that there are more people here besides the two of us, period. Tomorrow we will subject this area to a more thorough inspection, period. On the way back, the passengers of the second helicopter were picked up from the search, period. We settled in a water tent, period. There are still 30 of us, period.

We'll continue the search tomorrow, period. Since, despite our cold, they didn't bring us the probes, half of the detachment will be used to set up a helipad for the camp's management. We found the pad, period. Our colds, give us 1. Instead of candles, send two kerosene lamps. 2. If possible, raise the issue of arranging business trips with the leaders of the search groups, engineers Karelin Axelrod and T.

 

Sheet 175

Radiogram

Received by Sysoev

3/3 –

The snowstorm and snow continued all day, period. Wind beyond the pass up to 25 meters, visibility 5-8 period. The search continued, period. Captain Vlasov's group carefully examined the valley of the stream at the source of which - - - - - - - - the accident of Dyatlov's group occurred, period. The group reached Lozva, period. No traces of Dyatlov's group were found, period. The stream is a place where snow is dumped from the main ridge, period. The snow is very deep, period. The possibility of part of the group leaving for Lozva through this valley is excluded, period. Moiseyev carefully walked here with his dogs, period. Another group continued probing the slope, period. They passed two hundred meters of deep snow, one hundred meters wide, another (inaudible) xxxxxxxxxxxxxx to Kolmogorov's, period. Nothing was found, period. They examined the area near the cedar again, period.

 

Sheet 176

Radiogram

In addition to the two military groups of Chernyshev and Shestopalov, a civilian group was organized - - - - Axelrod's group, the entire camp consists of 34 people. Period. Report the results of the investigation of Dyatlov's belongings, maybe this will help in the search. Period. What was the weather like on February 1st?

Maslennikov

 

Sheet 177

Radiogram

Received by Sysoev

All traces of the Dyatlov group found in the search area were photographed; there are no wolf tracks here.
My deputy, Captain Chernyshev, is ready to take command at any time.
They brought in enough bread for the entire detachment for 10 days, it's lying at the pass getting stale, comma, there's no sausage for lunch at the search site, there's enough other food, period. I'll report any shortages in 2 days.
The squad works purposefully and harmoniously; no one will ask to go home anymore except me.
Maslennikov

 

Sheet 178

Radiogram

Received by Sysoev

Three people were preparing a site for a helicopter right next to the tent. An area of ​​50 by 50 was cut down. They were climbing to the crest of the ZPT spur, under which Dyatlov's tent was set up, as well as to a height of 1079. No traces of the ascent were found.

Mine detectors don't give anything, comma, the lieutenant colonel immediately switched to probes, period.

[Senior Maldonado]

The sappers would just be doing what they were told. These radiograms give us an idea what is going on ,,although they are a bit muddled. The dogs arrived and I think there's talk about removing them also. The weather has been awful and some of the searchers are tired . Some have been injured and the visibility can be poor. Rotation shifts are requested as some of the civilians are missing classes and other duties . It's basically volunteers supporting the military/ investigators and everyone gets rotated as they can't stay indefinitely until the bodies are found. There is mention of the rockets , hurricanes too but the search seems innocent enough but they are short of people and all of the payloads are being monitored.

It is clear that the sappers just executed the order they had received from their Сommand. The whole search seems innocent indeed, however I have a feeling that not all participants of the search were looking for hikers' bodies, certain participants were looking for something different. E.g. Abram Kikoin was looking for radioactive material on March 14th and left the Pass as soon as he finished doing measurements. The sappers... Actually, their services were 'proposed' from Search headquarters in Ivdel, nobody at the Pass asked for them. And right from the beginning Maslennikov suggested that the sappers should come with probes, not mine detectors. However, they came with detectors, performed scanning of the territory, and only after that switched to probes. Why were their officers so perisitent about mine detectors? I do not know.

As local investigator Korotaev recalled ourdays, Stepan Kurikov had found quite bulky piece of metal near DP in May or June 1959, which looked like element of a rocket. Korotaev even visited DP half-legally in summer expecting to look at that finding himself. But he found nothing. Shortly after that failed attempt, Korotaev was called to KGB office, where he was asked to give a signature that he would stop any efforts to continue the search.

Investigator Ivanov was more successful. Although, officially Mr.Kikoin found nothing, Ivanov managed to find radioactive material on the hikers' clothes.

[Ziljoe]

As the radiograms came in , I think someone thought it would be worth a try to use metal detectors, dogs, and probes . I don't even think there were probes on the first day because I think they used ski poles from the tent and even allocated skis from the tent to the dog handlers or sappers as they arrived with none.

I don't recall anyone reporting groups of men with metal detectors digging on the slope. With all the students and friends probing and digging about , they would be as likely to find metal as anyone with a metal detector. As I understand it, there's no snow on some bits and deep snow in the depressions. The only place the metal detectors would be used is in the creek below Zina ,that's where they believed the other hikers would be. That's where everyone is probing and around the cedar. But I think the detectors were only good for a few centimetres anyway.

It's here where we may have a problem, everyone is sharing a tent , or two. They all have breakfast , go to the toilet , have a briefing,have to hike the slope to boot rock and along to the hikers tent location . The grid for probing is planned and the slope is open and exposed as they follow orders. Yes it seems some of the investigators moved between locations but their doesn't seem any opportunity to find hidden stuff. If there was I'm sure all the civilians would have been taken out of the search process?.

The radioactive readings are a bit sketchy too. I wonder if there's more chance of something in northern two when they were loading the core samples from the mine.

The whole search was a suck it and see approach with the initial prospect of finding them alive and well with someone having a broken leg. When it was found that they were dead , it is then the resources are pulled in and they think about what tools are needed. I think it's only later that people talk about a dosimeter being used on the slope. This gets muddy when the dpi gets to the media in later years I think.

[Senior Maldonado]

As I understand it, there's no snow on some bits and deep snow in the depressions. The only place the metal detectors would be used is in the creek below Zina ,that's where they believed the other hikers would be. That's where everyone is probing and around the cedar.

It is worth to note how Vyacheslav Karelin, who was in the 1st shift of searchers at DP, describes the 1959's slope:

"In the winter days of February and March 1959, the ice and rock ridges were clearly visible on the slope, where Dyatlov's group descended. However, in subsequent years, no one observed such rocky ridges in the winter conditions. Therefore, we can conclude that the ice and rock ridges were visible only in February and March 1959. In all subsequent years, the snow completely covered the mountain slope. But is it possible that there was less snowfall in 1959? This question should be answered in the negative: during the search operations we probed the slope somewhat away from the ice-stone ridges, and sometimes the probe with a length of 1.5 m completely disappeared into the snow. Consequently, there was plenty of snow in the mountain area in 1959. But for some reason, there was practically no snow in the area of the ridges under consideration. And there was ice between the rocks on the ridges. What could be the reason for such a change – the snow turned into ice? And only in a restricted area!"

Having little snow on the slope, where Dyatlov's group had descended, probing, as well as using mine detectors, made sense for areas below Zina's place. That is right.

[sarapuk]

The sappers are called because the suspect the hikers are under the snow where zina is .

Idea to engage sappers for searching the remaning bodies was questionable from the very beginning. It was clear that the hikers had left the tent in a hurry, and they had not managed to take big metallic things that could be spotted by sappers' detectors. Why not to add more dogs instead of sappers? Zina's body was found by a dog. so that method proved to be effective. How effective the suppers were, they showed when they failed to find Rustem's body, which was not that far from the spot where Zina had been found.

When it is highlighted that most of the equipment is still on the tent, they then get the sappers to use poles

Again, not effective. Sappers are professionals trained to use detectors. Searching with poles is low qualified job, which can be easily done by students and Ivdellag soldiers. Anyway, Senior Lieutenant Avenburg would have been enough to manage the group of sappers, involvement of Lieutenant Colonel Shestopalov was redundant. And if we recall that 5 more high ranking officers arrived to Ivdel together with Shestopalov, we can suppose that searching the bodies was not their only task in Ivdel.

Well, military involvement in searches is, as I have said previously, not unusual. That's not to say that the participation of the Russian military in the Dyatlov case was just about searching for bodies. There may have been an ulterior motive. And who ever heard of searching for missing persons using a Geiger counter? Unless there was a reason to suspect finding a radiation source!

[sarapuk]

If they were looking for bits of rocket , I think the others there would have seen the activity, there wasn't anywhere to hide on the slope , at the helicopter site or base camp. ?

I think we cannot rule out completely that the sappers looked for small bits of rocket. The whole picture does not look contradictory. While Shestopalov and his team of sappers searched for small bits on the slope, the rest 5 officers defined in Ivdel the best way to evacuate large bits of rocket (found and moved out from the spot in February) by railroad. Conceling discoveries of small metallic particles is a piece of cake -- pick up a particle and put it into backpack. Sappers' detectors are intended to find metallic things first of all. Whether metallic things are accompanied by dead bodies, that's another story.

Of course, you may be completely right, and the sappers truly wanted to find the bodies only, detecting coins, knives, etc in their pockets.

And what if the sappers were not looking for bits of rocket? What else could they be up to? Could they be investigating an extraordinary event that may have been related to objects seen in the sky that were unidentified and not Russian or any other country's military?

[sarapuk]

The sappers would just be doing what they were told. These radiograms give us an idea what is going on ,,although they are a bit muddled. The dogs arrived and I think there's talk about removing them also. The weather has been awful and some of the searchers are tired . Some have been injured and the visibility can be poor. Rotation shifts are requested as some of the civilians are missing classes and other duties . It's basically volunteers supporting the military/ investigators and everyone gets rotated as they can't stay indefinitely until the bodies are found. There is mention of the rockets , hurricanes too but the search seems innocent enough but they are short of people and all of the payloads are being monitored.

It is clear that the sappers just executed the order they had received from their Сommand. The whole search seems innocent indeed, however I have a feeling that not all participants of the search were looking for hikers' bodies, certain participants were looking for something different. E.g. Abram Kikoin was looking for radioactive material on March 14th and left the Pass as soon as he finished doing measurements. The sappers... Actually, their services were 'proposed' from Search headquarters in Ivdel, nobody at the Pass asked for them. And right from the beginning Maslennikov suggested that the sappers should come with probes, not mine detectors. However, they came with detectors, performed scanning of the territory, and only after that switched to probes. Why were their officers so perisitent about mine detectors? I do not know.

As local investigator Korotaev recalled ourdays, Stepan Kurikov had found quite bulky piece of metal near DP in May or June 1959, which looked like element of a rocket. Korotaev even visited DP half-legally in summer expecting to look at that finding himself. But he found nothing. Shortly after that failed attempt, Korotaev was called to KGB office, where he was asked to give a signature that he would stop any efforts to continue the search.

Investigator Ivanov was more successful. Although, officially Mr.Kikoin found nothing, Ivanov managed to find radioactive material on the hikers' clothes.

It looks like the military searchers had a specific job to do. They would not be ordinary searchers for missing persons. There would be plenty of such searchers available to look for the bodies of the Dyatlov Group. Also, you mention that Korotaev visited the Dyatlov Pass half-legally in the summer, searching for whatever. There was an exclusion zone set up around the Dyatlov Pass after the last of the bodies were found. It was a no-go area for some time.   

[sarapuk]

As I understand it, there's no snow on some bits and deep snow in the depressions. The only place the metal detectors would be used is in the creek below Zina ,that's where they believed the other hikers would be. That's where everyone is probing and around the cedar.

It is worth to note how Vyacheslav Karelin, who was in the 1st shift of searchers at DP, describes the 1959's slope:

"In the winter days of February and March 1959, the ice and rock ridges were clearly visible on the slope, where Dyatlov's group descended. However, in subsequent years, no one observed such rocky ridges in the winter conditions. Therefore, we can conclude that the ice and rock ridges were visible only in February and March 1959. In all subsequent years, the snow completely covered the mountain slope. But is it possible that there was less snowfall in 1959? This question should be answered in the negative: during the search operations we probed the slope somewhat away from the ice-stone ridges, and sometimes the probe with a length of 1.5 m completely disappeared into the snow. Consequently, there was plenty of snow in the mountain area in 1959. But for some reason, there was practically no snow in the area of the ridges under consideration. And there was ice between the rocks on the ridges. What could be the reason for such a change – the snow turned into ice? And only in a restricted area!"

Having little snow on the slope, where Dyatlov's group had descended, probing, as well as using mine detectors, made sense for areas below Zina's place. That is right.

You bring up the subject of metal detectors again, and it's a good point to raise because it all helps in our search for potential breakthroughs in this mystery. As someone who has used and still uses metal detectors and has some of the most advanced ones, I can not figure out why they would use detectors to search for bodies. Because the detectors that were available in the 1950s were just before the digital revolution that transformed metal detectors. Their detectors would have been fairly crude military mine types. Good for searching for mines and such like. In other words good for searching for fairly decent-sized pieces of metal. Not the sophisticated computer types of modern detectors. Of course, it's possible that they thought the detectors would be useful if any of the Dyatlov Group had metallic objects on them. But those old mine detectors were not really ideal for searching for objects the size of belt buckles, many inches below the surface of the ground, let alone under snow or ice cover.

[Senior Maldonado]

Also, you mention that Korotaev visited the Dyatlov Pass half-legally in the summer, searching for whatever. There was an exclusion zone set up around the Dyatlov Pass after the last of the bodies were found. It was a no-go area for some time.

That is what Korotaev has said. Is it thruth or not, I do not know. Korotaev mentioned indeed that DP and surrounding area had been closed for 3 years. But not for everybody. It was closed for hiking. Mansi contunued to live there, however they were forbidden to fish in Lozva. He himself made a helicopter trip to the Pass, as he was in good relations with the pilots. Again, according to his words.