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Author Topic: Why did the Dyatlov group leave their tent?  (Read 25785 times)

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January 02, 2019, 05:10:59 PM
Reply #90
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient


1.  If it was an explosion how far away would it have been and why isn't there any scorch marks or evidence of shrapnel?

Any man made high explosive blast would produce a supersonic wave that would burst the lungs. If it was a blast it wasn't HE.



2. If they fell how come there are no broken limbs as well as the trauma to the chest.  Tibo had a crushed skull but again no broken limbs.  Surely if it was a fall then the impact force would also have broken some other bones?

As postulated on the NO2 thread, nitrous oxide could explain this.

Ok so maybe the injuries weren't caused by a shock wave from HE despite what the pathologist said?  It's unlikely they were caused by a car crash either.  So what other possibilities are there?

1.  Could they have fallen from the cedar tree?  There is evidence that they climbed up to 5 metres?  A fall even onto shallow snow would still produce significant forces to the chest in the range of about 2 tonnes.

2.  Could something else have hit fhem in the chest?  Large bolders that had been thrown by something?

3. Is there a type of explosion that could cause the chest injuries but not an explosion capable of bursting the lungs?

1 =  But it wouldnt cause the type of Rib injuries that Dubinina had.  2 =  But thrown objects like boulders would cause Skin Tissue injuries as well.  3 =  A blast is a blast, and its not unusual for powerful blasts to decapitate as well.
DB
 

January 03, 2019, 02:49:57 AM
Reply #91
Offline

Nigel Evans




Ok so maybe the injuries weren't caused by a shock wave from HE despite what the pathologist said?  It's unlikely they were caused by a car crash either.  So what other possibilities are there?
Ball lightning exploding might fit the problem (because we don't know in detail what it is and how it might explode :)

1.  Could they have fallen from the cedar tree?  There is evidence that they climbed up to 5 metres?  A fall even onto shallow snow would still produce significant forces to the chest in the range of about 2 tonnes.
After those injuries they aren't walking anywhere, certainly not to the ravine from the cedar. Those injuries happened very close to where they were found.

2.  Could something else have hit fhem in the chest?  Large bolders that had been thrown by something?
The lack of surface tissue damage makes it highly unlikely, i think the pathologist said something similar.

3. Is there a type of explosion that could cause the chest injuries but not an explosion capable of bursting the lungs?
Ball lightning?

 

January 03, 2019, 03:16:08 AM
Reply #92
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient


Ok so maybe the injuries weren't caused by a shock wave from HE despite what the pathologist said?  It's unlikely they were caused by a car crash either.  So what other possibilities are there?
Ball lightning exploding might fit the problem (because we don't know in detail what it is and how it might explode :)

1.  Could they have fallen from the cedar tree?  There is evidence that they climbed up to 5 metres?  A fall even onto shallow snow would still produce significant forces to the chest in the range of about 2 tonnes.
After those injuries they aren't walking anywhere, certainly not to the ravine from the cedar. Those injuries happened very close to where they were found.

2.  Could something else have hit fhem in the chest?  Large bolders that had been thrown by something?
The lack of surface tissue damage makes it highly unlikely, i think the pathologist said something similar.

3. Is there a type of explosion that could cause the chest injuries but not an explosion capable of bursting the lungs?
Ball lightning?


How certain is it that they would not be able to move with those chest injuries?  They may have been carried or supported and they may have been unconscious?  They may have been moved rather than walked themselves?

The ball lightning explosion is an unknown though so you can’t really conclude anything from it.

I think that for a scenario that doesn’t involve murder or a yeti and is a result of some other natural event we should try to look for options that both result in the observed injuries and the compelling need to leave the camp without adequate clothing. They could be one and the same thing?
 

January 03, 2019, 05:12:23 AM
Reply #93
Offline

Nigel Evans



How certain is it that they would not be able to move with those chest injuries?  They may have been carried or supported and they may have been unconscious?  They may have been moved rather than walked themselves?Well only Zina and Igor would qualify as able bodied, Rustem was slowly dying from internal bleeding and had a fractured skull. Semyon and Lyudmila would be in strong pain (a flail chest makes every breath very painful). In my narrative the ravine would be warmer than the cedar because the warm air would roll across the tops of the trees and fall into the ravine. Hence providing motivation to move the group from the fire and build the den(s).

The ball lightning explosion is an unknown though so you can’t really conclude anything from it.True but it remains the most probable due to Ivanov's conviction.
I think that for a scenario that doesn’t involve murder or a yeti and is a result of some other natural event we should try to look for options that both result in the observed injuries and the compelling need to leave the camp without adequate clothing. They could be one and the same thing?Agreed, hence my theory that electro magnetic processes caused by high winds resulted in (1) hot acrid gases, (2) intoxicating gases. (3) production of fire orbs possibly exploding, possibly with mechanical force (impact), possibly not involved at all in fatalities.
There is good evidence for (1). warmed snow on hill, decision to descend in socks, general lack of frostbite, dark orange hands and faces at funeral forming after photos in the morgue combined with Lyudmila's yellow brown face with a white chin have very very few explanations, foam on cheek. Nicolai found with jacket unfastened and gloves in pockets.
There is circumstantial evidence within a plausible narrative for (2), decision to descend in socks, wasting matches, decision to climb tree, falling out of tree.
There is good evidence for (3) - A highly credible witness (of the evidence, Ivanov) said it must have been the fire orbs. He and the Central Committee (who clearly believed him) could only form this opinion from strongly credible evidence which must have been confiscated photographs. N.B. Yudin said that nearly everyone in the group had a camera?  So there must have been at least nine rolls of exposed film possibly more? And Semyon's notebook, confiscated because it did describe the event?

 

January 03, 2019, 10:29:27 AM
Reply #94
Offline

Tracker


They were hit with infra-sound from the Yeti. They were probably nervous already from camping too close to them before. The group mentioned snowman exits prior and took frame 17 pic in light of the situation. They also made light of other events that were occurring in real time as well.

So where are the Yeti prints and trackways that connect them?

Notice the prints in picture below are set into the last tire indention left by the vehicle prior. The Sasquatch winter trackway in this case started and stopped without stepping in from the treeline or off the laneway. Also there's a light layer of fresh snow in case someone might suggest a person sticking out of the trunk or whatever. There's no human prints.  If you can come to terms with that then and perhaps some may reconsider that the Yeti are the most likely responsible for this tradgedy.   


« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 11:33:56 AM by Tracker »
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable must be the truth." Arthur Conan Doyle
 

January 03, 2019, 04:13:31 PM
Reply #95
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

How certain is it that they would not be able to move with those chest injuries?  They may have been carried or supported and they may have been unconscious?  They may have been moved rather than walked themselves?Well only Zina and Igor would qualify as able bodied, Rustem was slowly dying from internal bleeding and had a fractured skull. Semyon and Lyudmila would be in strong pain (a flail chest makes every breath very painful). In my narrative the ravine would be warmer than the cedar because the warm air would roll across the tops of the trees and fall into the ravine. Hence providing motivation to move the group from the fire and build the den(s).

The ball lightning explosion is an unknown though so you can’t really conclude anything from it.True but it remains the most probable due to Ivanov's conviction.
I think that for a scenario that doesn’t involve murder or a yeti and is a result of some other natural event we should try to look for options that both result in the observed injuries and the compelling need to leave the camp without adequate clothing. They could be one and the same thing?Agreed, hence my theory that electro magnetic processes caused by high winds resulted in (1) hot acrid gases, (2) intoxicating gases. (3) production of fire orbs possibly exploding, possibly with mechanical force (impact), possibly not involved at all in fatalities.
There is good evidence for (1). warmed snow on hill, decision to descend in socks, general lack of frostbite, dark orange hands and faces at funeral forming after photos in the morgue combined with Lyudmila's yellow brown face with a white chin have very very few explanations, foam on cheek. Nicolai found with jacket unfastened and gloves in pockets.
There is circumstantial evidence within a plausible narrative for (2), decision to descend in socks, wasting matches, decision to climb tree, falling out of tree.
There is good evidence for (3) - A highly credible witness (of the evidence, Ivanov) said it must have been the fire orbs. He and the Central Committee (who clearly believed him) could only form this opinion from strongly credible evidence which must have been confiscated photographs. N.B. Yudin said that nearly everyone in the group had a camera?  So there must have been at least nine rolls of exposed film possibly more? And Semyon's notebook, confiscated because it did describe the event?



Initially Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo may have had significant injuries.  Kolevatov is said to have had a deformed neck, but it's not clear what that means?  He may have been able to walk himself.  Rustem although injured may also have been able to walk himself.  That would leave Dyatlov, Zina, and the two yuris.  Possibly kolevatov.  If one person carries Thibo on his back, and another Lyuda and Semyon is supported and aided by two members of the group they could have moved slowly down the slope.  Obviously there are possible variations on how they could have helped the injured down the slope.

It would have been difficult but if the circumstances are right and adrenaline is pumping they may have been able to make it down the slope together.  if they were helping the injured it may also also explain why their decent seemed more orderly and slow.  I am trying to explore all the possibilities.

I do think that the so called fire orbs may be responsible for what happened that night.  Ivanov may have seen additional supporting evidence. 

One thing to consider is the size of these so called fire orbs.  The witness statements describe them as "moon size". Some of these people were up to 70km from kholat syakhl.  This would mean the fire orbs would have been around about 500 metres in diameter.  So what can create a ball of fire 500 metres in diameter?

Personally I am not stuck on any particular theory at the moment.  I am slowly exploring the options and the possible variables (of which there seem to be many).  My favourite currently is still the military accident. infrasound is a possibility.  I think murder is still a possibility, but it doesn't lend itself to the facts of the case.  For instance Semyon left with his camera, someone the group had knives with them to cut trees.  If they were forced out of the tent and marched down the slope to their deaths I would expect their attackers to have searched them and not allowed them to take knives with them. Also, I would expect none of them to have boots, or that they had different levels of clothing. The distribution of the bodies doesn't match what I would expect for a murder.  There a few key facts that kind of make murder less likely.
 

January 03, 2019, 04:21:47 PM
Reply #96
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
They were hit with infra-sound from the Yeti. They were probably nervous already from camping too close to them before. The group mentioned snowman exits prior and took frame 17 pic in light of the situation. They also made light of other events that were occurring in real time as well.

So where are the Yeti prints and trackways that connect them?

Notice the prints in picture below are set into the last tire indention left by the vehicle prior. The Sasquatch winter trackway in this case started and stopped without stepping in from the treeline or off the laneway. Also there's a light layer of fresh snow in case someone might suggest a person sticking out of the trunk or whatever. There's no human prints.  If you can come to terms with that then and perhaps some may reconsider that the Yeti are the most likely responsible for this tradgedy.   



Hi Tracker.  Intersting photograph.  So what happened to the rest of the tracks?  I have read various reports about the abilities of these creatures (if they exist) including that their eyes glow red ( whats that all about?), and that they may even have their own form of language.  Maybe this for discussion on a different thread though.
 

January 03, 2019, 05:23:22 PM
Reply #97
Offline

Tracker


They were hit with infra-sound from the Yeti. They were probably nervous already from camping too close to them before. The group mentioned snowman exits prior and took frame 17 pic in light of the situation. They also made light of other events that were occurring in real time as well.

So where are the Yeti prints and trackways that connect them?

Notice the prints in picture below are set into the last tire indention left by the vehicle prior. The Sasquatch winter trackway in this case started and stopped without stepping in from the treeline or off the laneway. Also there's a light layer of fresh snow in case someone might suggest a person sticking out of the trunk or whatever. There's no human prints.  If you can come to terms with that then and perhaps some may reconsider that the Yeti are the most likely responsible for this tradgedy.   



Hi Tracker.  Intersting photograph.  So what happened to the rest of the tracks?  I have read various reports about the abilities of these creatures (if they exist) including that their eyes glow red ( whats that all about?), and that they may even have their own form of language.  Maybe this for discussion on a different thread though.
They do have some interesting abilities which is why I brought it up. About the prints, they can choose to leave them or not. In this case it was a habituation. The Sasquatch was friendly and showing the researcher they can do this. In another encounter the Sasquatch left a trackway of right foot prints only. With the appropriate stride lengths without any left foot prints in the snow. I've seen a disappearing trackway in heavy mud from a dried up creek.
 To the point- The Yeti were probably right outside the Dyatlov 9's tent on the Mtn side that night. Then they hit the 9 with screams or infrasound and didn't leave a single print. Investigators wouldn't find any obvious evidence it was the Yeti. It's a real game changer for this 60 year old mystery Imo.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 06:11:33 PM by Tracker »
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable must be the truth." Arthur Conan Doyle
 

January 04, 2019, 05:17:41 AM
Reply #98
Offline

Nigel Evans



Initially Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo may have had significant injuries.  Kolevatov is said to have had a deformed neck, but it's not clear what that means?  He may have been able to walk himself.  Rustem although injured may also have been able to walk himself.  That would leave Dyatlov, Zina, and the two yuris.  Possibly kolevatov.  If one person carries Thibo on his back, and another Lyuda and Semyon is supported and aided by two members of the group they could have moved slowly down the slope.  Obviously there are possible variations on how they could have helped the injured down the slope.I prefer the narrative where the two Yuri's die first and clothes are removed later. There is evidence for this in that the bodies are rolled over sometime after death?

I do think that the so called fire orbs may be responsible for what happened that night.  Ivanov may have seen additional supporting evidence. 
My narrative is that Okishev supports the story that Ivanov showed his evidence to the Central Committee and they ordered a shutdown on the case. That can only be because they saw convincing evidence. It has to be photographs of fire orbs. There are missing cameras, missing film rolls....

One thing to consider is the size of these so called fire orbs.  The witness statements describe them as "moon size". Some of these people were up to 70km from kholat syakhl.  This would mean the fire orbs would have been around about 500 metres in diameter. Imo it's unlikely that the actual objects were that big, perhaps lighting up the surrounding snow/water vapour. "Light surrounded by a mist".


Personally I am not stuck on any particular theory at the moment.  I am slowly exploring the options and the possible variables (of which there seem to be many).  My favourite currently is still the military accident. infrasound is a possibility.  I think murder is still a possibility, but it doesn't lend itself to the facts of the case.  For instance Semyon left with his camera, someone the group had knives with them to cut trees.  If they were forced out of the tent and marched down the slope to their deaths I would expect their attackers to have searched them and not allowed them to take knives with them. Also, I would expect none of them to have boots, or that they had different levels of clothing. The distribution of the bodies doesn't match what I would expect for a murder.  There a few key facts that kind of make murder less likely.Rocket fuel would provide a good source of NO2, but there has to be some persistence to create a poisonous cloud that forces them to abandon the tent.
 

January 04, 2019, 04:41:34 PM
Reply #99
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Initially Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo may have had significant injuries.  Kolevatov is said to have had a deformed neck, but it's not clear what that means?  He may have been able to walk himself.  Rustem although injured may also have been able to walk himself.  That would leave Dyatlov, Zina, and the two yuris.  Possibly kolevatov.  If one person carries Thibo on his back, and another Lyuda and Semyon is supported and aided by two members of the group they could have moved slowly down the slope.  Obviously there are possible variations on how they could have helped the injured down the slope.I prefer the narrative where the two Yuri's die first and clothes are removed later. There is evidence for this in that the bodies are rolled over sometime after death?

I do think that the so called fire orbs may be responsible for what happened that night.  Ivanov may have seen additional supporting evidence. 
My narrative is that Okishev supports the story that Ivanov showed his evidence to the Central Committee and they ordered a shutdown on the case. That can only be because they saw convincing evidence. It has to be photographs of fire orbs. There are missing cameras, missing film rolls....

One thing to consider is the size of these so called fire orbs.  The witness statements describe them as "moon size". Some of these people were up to 70km from kholat syakhl.  This would mean the fire orbs would have been around about 500 metres in diameter. Imo it's unlikely that the actual objects were that big, perhaps lighting up the surrounding snow/water vapour. "Light surrounded by a mist".


Personally I am not stuck on any particular theory at the moment.  I am slowly exploring the options and the possible variables (of which there seem to be many).  My favourite currently is still the military accident. infrasound is a possibility.  I think murder is still a possibility, but it doesn't lend itself to the facts of the case.  For instance Semyon left with his camera, someone the group had knives with them to cut trees.  If they were forced out of the tent and marched down the slope to their deaths I would expect their attackers to have searched them and not allowed them to take knives with them. Also, I would expect none of them to have boots, or that they had different levels of clothing. The distribution of the bodies doesn't match what I would expect for a murder.  There a few key facts that kind of make murder less likely.Rocket fuel would provide a good source of NO2, but there has to be some persistence to create a poisonous cloud that forces them to abandon the tent.

It must be true that whoever removed the clothing from the two Yur's knew or thought that Lyuda etc were still alive.  It may have been the ravine four that took the clothes or just the remaining group members who were trying to keep them alive.  The ravine four were better dressed than the others so even with the injuries they had a better chance against the cold and therefore they may have lived longer than the two Yuri's.  There were some items of clothing found between the cedar tree and the ravine.  The exact sequence of events still needs to be thrashed out.  There are quite a few variables that need to be thought through carefully.

It's possible that the orange orbs were smaller and brighter and therefore appeared as a larger more diffuse light source.  It would be interesting to understand the visibility conditions in the area that night.




 

January 04, 2019, 04:51:40 PM
Reply #100
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
They were hit with infra-sound from the Yeti. They were probably nervous already from camping too close to them before. The group mentioned snowman exits prior and took frame 17 pic in light of the situation. They also made light of other events that were occurring in real time as well.

So where are the Yeti prints and trackways that connect them?

Notice the prints in picture below are set into the last tire indention left by the vehicle prior. The Sasquatch winter trackway in this case started and stopped without stepping in from the treeline or off the laneway. Also there's a light layer of fresh snow in case someone might suggest a person sticking out of the trunk or whatever. There's no human prints.  If you can come to terms with that then and perhaps some may reconsider that the Yeti are the most likely responsible for this tradgedy.   



Hi Tracker.  Intersting photograph.  So what happened to the rest of the tracks?  I have read various reports about the abilities of these creatures (if they exist) including that their eyes glow red ( whats that all about?), and that they may even have their own form of language.  Maybe this for discussion on a different thread though.
They do have some interesting abilities which is why I brought it up. About the prints, they can choose to leave them or not. In this case it was a habituation. The Sasquatch was friendly and showing the researcher they can do this. In another encounter the Sasquatch left a trackway of right foot prints only. With the appropriate stride lengths without any left foot prints in the snow. I've seen a disappearing trackway in heavy mud from a dried up creek.
 To the point- The Yeti were probably right outside the Dyatlov 9's tent on the Mtn side that night. Then they hit the 9 with screams or infrasound and didn't leave a single print. Investigators wouldn't find any obvious evidence it was the Yeti. It's a real game changer for this 60 year old mystery Imo.

If the Yeti were right outside the tent or near the tent why didn't they just attack the group and take them all out?  They would have been much faster, stronger and easily capable of taking them all down.  Why didn't any of the 9 grab the weapons in the tent?  You probably wouldn't want to attack a yeti with small axe anyway, but it's better than nothing if it came to defending yourself.
 

January 04, 2019, 09:06:37 PM
Reply #101
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Up against a Yeti...... gimme the ice-axe.   
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

January 05, 2019, 12:59:35 PM
Reply #102
Offline

Tracker


They were hit with infra-sound from the Yeti. They were probably nervous already from camping too close to them before. The group mentioned snowman exits prior and took frame 17 pic in light of the situation. They also made light of other events that were occurring in real time as well.

So where are the Yeti prints and trackways that connect them?

Notice the prints in picture below are set into the last tire indention left by the vehicle prior. The Sasquatch winter trackway in this case started and stopped without stepping in from the treeline or off the laneway. Also there's a light layer of fresh snow in case someone might suggest a person sticking out of the trunk or whatever. There's no human prints.  If you can come to terms with that then and perhaps some may reconsider that the Yeti are the most likely responsible for this tradgedy.   



Hi Tracker.  Intersting photograph.  So what happened to the rest of the tracks?  I have read various reports about the abilities of these creatures (if they exist) including that their eyes glow red ( whats that all about?), and that they may even have their own form of language.  Maybe this for discussion on a different thread though.
They do have some interesting abilities which is why I brought it up. About the prints, they can choose to leave them or not. In this case it was a habituation. The Sasquatch was friendly and showing the researcher they can do this. In another encounter the Sasquatch left a trackway of right foot prints only. With the appropriate stride lengths without any left foot prints in the snow. I've seen a disappearing trackway in heavy mud from a dried up creek.
 To the point- The Yeti were probably right outside the Dyatlov 9's tent on the Mtn side that night. Then they hit the 9 with screams or infrasound and didn't leave a single print. Investigators wouldn't find any obvious evidence it was the Yeti. It's a real game changer for this 60 year old mystery Imo.

If the Yeti were right outside the tent or near the tent why didn't they just attack the group and take them all out?  They would have been much faster, stronger and easily capable of taking them all down.  Why didn't any of the 9 grab the weapons in the tent?  You probably wouldn't want to attack a yeti with small axe anyway, but it's better than nothing if it came to defending yourself.
Their intelligent, direct confrontation usually last resort. They fear us and our weapons and there's nine humans in a tent. They most likely just wanted the group to leave their territory and when they didn't.
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable must be the truth." Arthur Conan Doyle
 

January 05, 2019, 01:03:31 PM
Reply #103
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
They were hit with infra-sound from the Yeti. They were probably nervous already from camping too close to them before. The group mentioned snowman exits prior and took frame 17 pic in light of the situation. They also made light of other events that were occurring in real time as well.

So where are the Yeti prints and trackways that connect them?

Notice the prints in picture below are set into the last tire indention left by the vehicle prior. The Sasquatch winter trackway in this case started and stopped without stepping in from the treeline or off the laneway. Also there's a light layer of fresh snow in case someone might suggest a person sticking out of the trunk or whatever. There's no human prints.  If you can come to terms with that then and perhaps some may reconsider that the Yeti are the most likely responsible for this tradgedy.   



Hi Tracker.  Intersting photograph.  So what happened to the rest of the tracks?  I have read various reports about the abilities of these creatures (if they exist) including that their eyes glow red ( whats that all about?), and that they may even have their own form of language.  Maybe this for discussion on a different thread though.
They do have some interesting abilities which is why I brought it up. About the prints, they can choose to leave them or not. In this case it was a habituation. The Sasquatch was friendly and showing the researcher they can do this. In another encounter the Sasquatch left a trackway of right foot prints only. With the appropriate stride lengths without any left foot prints in the snow. I've seen a disappearing trackway in heavy mud from a dried up creek.
 To the point- The Yeti were probably right outside the Dyatlov 9's tent on the Mtn side that night. Then they hit the 9 with screams or infrasound and didn't leave a single print. Investigators wouldn't find any obvious evidence it was the Yeti. It's a real game changer for this 60 year old mystery Imo.

If the Yeti were right outside the tent or near the tent why didn't they just attack the group and take them all out?  They would have been much faster, stronger and easily capable of taking them all down.  Why didn't any of the 9 grab the weapons in the tent?  You probably wouldn't want to attack a yeti with small axe anyway, but it's better than nothing if it came to defending yourself.
Their intelligent, direct confrontation usually last resort. They fear us and our weapons and there's nine humans in a tent. They most likely just wanted the group to leave their territory and when they didn't.

Sounds like a reasonable answer.
 

January 06, 2019, 11:58:33 PM
Reply #104
Offline

Monika



Initially Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo may have had significant injuries.  Kolevatov is said to have had a deformed neck, but it's not clear what that means?  He may have been able to walk himself.  Rustem although injured may also have been able to walk himself.  That would leave Dyatlov, Zina, and the two yuris.  Possibly kolevatov.  If one person carries Thibo on his back, and another Lyuda and Semyon is supported and aided by two members of the group they could have moved slowly down the slope.  Obviously there are possible variations on how they could have helped the injured down the slope.I prefer the narrative where the two Yuri's die first and clothes are removed later. There is evidence for this in that the bodies are rolled over sometime after death?

I do think that the so called fire orbs may be responsible for what happened that night.  Ivanov may have seen additional supporting evidence. 
My narrative is that Okishev supports the story that Ivanov showed his evidence to the Central Committee and they ordered a shutdown on the case. That can only be because they saw convincing evidence. It has to be photographs of fire orbs. There are missing cameras, missing film rolls....

One thing to consider is the size of these so called fire orbs.  The witness statements describe them as "moon size". Some of these people were up to 70km from kholat syakhl.  This would mean the fire orbs would have been around about 500 metres in diameter. Imo it's unlikely that the actual objects were that big, perhaps lighting up the surrounding snow/water vapour. "Light surrounded by a mist".


Personally I am not stuck on any particular theory at the moment.  I am slowly exploring the options and the possible variables (of which there seem to be many).  My favourite currently is still the military accident. infrasound is a possibility.  I think murder is still a possibility, but it doesn't lend itself to the facts of the case.  For instance Semyon left with his camera, someone the group had knives with them to cut trees.  If they were forced out of the tent and marched down the slope to their deaths I would expect their attackers to have searched them and not allowed them to take knives with them. Also, I would expect none of them to have boots, or that they had different levels of clothing. The distribution of the bodies doesn't match what I would expect for a murder.  There a few key facts that kind of make murder less likely.Rocket fuel would provide a good source of NO2, but there has to be some persistence to create a poisonous cloud that forces them to abandon the tent.

It must be true that whoever removed the clothing from the two Yur's knew or thought that Lyuda etc were still alive.  It may have been the ravine four that took the clothes or just the remaining group members who were trying to keep them alive.  The ravine four were better dressed than the others so even with the injuries they had a better chance against the cold and therefore they may have lived longer than the two Yuri's.  There were some items of clothing found between the cedar tree and the ravine.  The exact sequence of events still needs to be thrashed out.  There are quite a few variables that need to be thought through carefully.

It's possible that the orange orbs were smaller and brighter and therefore appeared as a larger more diffuse light source.  It would be interesting to understand the visibility conditions in the area that night.

“There were some items of clothing found between the cedar tree and the ravine”.
There are two reasons why clothing was thrown to the ravine:
The fire has stopped to work, probably because of the strong wind. The two Yuris froze. After that two possible situations may have involved:
1. The other four have taken their clothes in order to get dressed and at the same time to used the clothes to cover bottom of the den. But on the way to the den due to a wind condition and due to weakness and tiredness, they could not keep all the clothes in their hand, and it was drop down on the way.
2. The other four have taken their clothes in order to dress up and at the same time to used the clothes to cover bottom of the den, and they also disposed of some clothes along the way as a navigation as these three who went to the tent for things could later find them (because they (all group of seven)  initially were separated at the fire).
 

January 07, 2019, 12:17:38 AM
Reply #105
Offline

Monika




Ok so maybe the injuries weren't caused by a shock wave from HE despite what the pathologist said?  It's unlikely they were caused by a car crash either.  So what other possibilities are there?
Ball lightning exploding might fit the problem (because we don't know in detail what it is and how it might explode :)

1.  Could they have fallen from the cedar tree?  There is evidence that they climbed up to 5 metres?  A fall even onto shallow snow would still produce significant forces to the chest in the range of about 2 tonnes.
After those injuries they aren't walking anywhere, certainly not to the ravine from the cedar. Those injuries happened very close to where they were found.

2.  Could something else have hit fhem in the chest?  Large bolders that had been thrown by something?
The lack of surface tissue damage makes it highly unlikely, i think the pathologist said something similar.

3. Is there a type of explosion that could cause the chest injuries but not an explosion capable of bursting the lungs?
Ball lightning?


If the four of them fall into ravine or on each other, Zolotarev camera will be damaged. But the camera was intact only the film was destroyed probably due to water. It seems to be as his injuries occurred when he stood on his feet and what happened to him caused him broke his ribs but it did not knock him down. Would you know someone explain it?
 

January 07, 2019, 02:14:50 AM
Reply #106
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Nigel Evans




Ok so maybe the injuries weren't caused by a shock wave from HE despite what the pathologist said?  It's unlikely they were caused by a car crash either.  So what other possibilities are there?
Ball lightning exploding might fit the problem (because we don't know in detail what it is and how it might explode :)

1.  Could they have fallen from the cedar tree?  There is evidence that they climbed up to 5 metres?  A fall even onto shallow snow would still produce significant forces to the chest in the range of about 2 tonnes.
After those injuries they aren't walking anywhere, certainly not to the ravine from the cedar. Those injuries happened very close to where they were found.

2.  Could something else have hit fhem in the chest?  Large bolders that had been thrown by something?
The lack of surface tissue damage makes it highly unlikely, i think the pathologist said something similar.

3. Is there a type of explosion that could cause the chest injuries but not an explosion capable of bursting the lungs?
Ball lightning?


If the four of them fall into ravine or on each other, Zolotarev camera will be damaged. But the camera was intact only the film was destroyed probably due to water. It seems to be as his injuries occurred when he stood on his feet and what happened to him caused him broke his ribs but it did not knock him down. Would you know someone explain it?
I'd include Rustem so five, but it could be all seven, Igor and Zina not getting seriously injured just collecting "combat injuries".
I don't think his camera was damaged. Imo the film wasn't destroyed, i think those images are of objects in the night sky and were ignored when the better images were confiscated.

Semyon's exhumation discovered a fractured shoulder blade missed by the pathologist which the exhumation team claim means that he had to be lying on his back, that or he was roughly handled before burial!
I'm not aware of why his injury profile requires him to be on his feet?
 

January 07, 2019, 06:27:24 AM
Reply #107
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
#1

Experts agree that Rustems skull was cracked due to expansion of the brain when freezing.  We all know the body/brain consists of mostly water and how water expands when freezing. 

#2

The shoulder blade wasn't snapped in half as Nigel may lead you to believe.  It had a few nearly invisible hairline cracks on one side, and one of the TOP US forensic Pathologist says one blow from the front caused this.  The force/energy has to go somewhere. The ribs transferred the force to the shoulder blade and subsequently broke under said force/stress.  The blow was one, and does not have to take place while the victim is on his/her back. 
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 08:05:22 AM by Loose}{Cannon »
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

January 07, 2019, 07:26:27 AM
Reply #108
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Nigel Evans


The shoulder blade wasn't snapped in half as Nigel may lead you to believe. 
You're misquoting me, i said cracks...
Fake news...  lalala1 lalala1 lalala1
 

January 07, 2019, 07:56:19 AM
Reply #109
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
And I said 'may' lead you to believe.  Its open ended for future use.   

 tongue2

And to be fair and honest....  this is your quote.


Quote
Semyon's exhumation discovered a fractured shoulder blade missed by the pathologist
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

January 07, 2019, 09:01:45 AM
Reply #110
Offline

Nigel Evans


And I said 'may' lead you to believe.  Its open ended for future use.   

 tongue2

And to be fair and honest....  this is your quote.


Quote
Semyon's exhumation discovered a fractured shoulder blade missed by the pathologist


 "Fair and honest" - such a refreshing change.  bigjoke


To be fair fractured is ambiguous.
 

January 07, 2019, 02:39:27 PM
Reply #111
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
And I said 'may' lead you to believe.  Its open ended for future use.   

 tongue2

And to be fair and honest....  this is your quote.


Quote
Semyon's exhumation discovered a fractured shoulder blade missed by the pathologist


 "Fair and honest" - such a refreshing change.  bigjoke


To be fair fractured is ambiguous.

Any way, well spotted. Iam sure that many members did not note that cracks were found in a body that were not recorded at the time of investigation in 1959. WHY NOT  !  ?  It is highly unlikely that those cracks were caused after the recovery of the body.
DB
 

January 17, 2019, 02:44:07 AM
Reply #112
Offline

Per Inge Oestmoen


#1

Experts agree that Rustems skull was cracked due to expansion of the brain when freezing.  We all know the body/brain consists of mostly water and how water expands when freezing. 

#2

The shoulder blade wasn't snapped in half as Nigel may lead you to believe.  It had a few nearly invisible hairline cracks on one side, and one of the TOP US forensic Pathologist says one blow from the front caused this.  The force/energy has to go somewhere. The ribs transferred the force to the shoulder blade and subsequently broke under said force/stress.  The blow was one, and does not have to take place while the victim is on his/her back.


1. No, experts would not agree on that. There is no certainty that this is the explanation - it is a theoretical possibility. To find out more, the skeleton has to be exhumed and the skull examined. Then it should be possible to find out whether the broken skull was the result from inside pressure or an impact from the outside.

2. Such a blow is most likely to have been caused by another human. And quite correctly, it does not have to happen when the victim is on his or her back.
 

January 17, 2019, 06:08:18 AM
Reply #113
Offline

Nigel Evans




2. Such a blow is most likely to have been caused by another human. And quite correctly, it does not have to happen when the victim is on his or her back.
Or self inflicted from falling over, possibly whilst drunk on N2O...
 

January 17, 2019, 03:24:18 PM
Reply #114
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
#1

Experts agree that Rustems skull was cracked due to expansion of the brain when freezing.  We all know the body/brain consists of mostly water and how water expands when freezing. 

#2

The shoulder blade wasn't snapped in half as Nigel may lead you to believe.  It had a few nearly invisible hairline cracks on one side, and one of the TOP US forensic Pathologist says one blow from the front caused this.  The force/energy has to go somewhere. The ribs transferred the force to the shoulder blade and subsequently broke under said force/stress.  The blow was one, and does not have to take place while the victim is on his/her back.


1. No, experts would not agree on that. There is no certainty that this is the explanation - it is a theoretical possibility. To find out more, the skeleton has to be exhumed and the skull examined. Then it should be possible to find out whether the broken skull was the result from inside pressure or an impact from the outside.

2. Such a blow is most likely to have been caused by another human. And quite correctly, it does not have to happen when the victim is on his or her back.

Yes an investigation on the remains these days would certainly help the cause. I would only go as far as saying that RUSTEM's skull may have been cracked during freezing. Likewise I would only go as far as saying that maybe a blow caused the fracture or fractures.
DB
 

January 18, 2019, 09:47:53 AM
Reply #115
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Quote
2. Such a blow is most likely to have been caused by another human. And quite correctly, it does not have to happen when the victim is on his or her back.


http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=187.0
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

January 18, 2019, 03:08:04 PM
Reply #116
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Yes it seems even the experts can not agree. 
DB
 

January 29, 2019, 08:35:46 AM
Reply #117
Offline

cennetkusu


And a good detail is that young people must have been a sudden attack since the tent was cut and ran away. Because if they felt the attack, they'd wear their shoes in advance. So it must have been a very sudden raid ... or they may have heard a terrible sound from inside the tent ... This may have caused them to suddenly cut off the tent. The tent was already dark and feared. And when they heard the horrible sound, they cut the tent and ran away.
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.
 

January 29, 2019, 08:40:01 AM
Reply #118
Offline

cennetkusu


If the threat came from outside the tent, it would be absurd to cut the tent out. But the danger came through the tent. And until then, they were surprised to see what they had to do when the awful sound they heard from outside came inside the tent. And they tried to cut the tent and run away. And they didn't even think of dressing and getting their boots.
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.
 

January 29, 2019, 08:46:17 AM
Reply #119
Offline

cennetkusu


Semyon was 38 years old and was more mature than young people. And he kept his composure. And he put on his boots in advance and took his camera with him. And a paper pen. It meant there was no human or animal attacking them ... If people attacked, they wouldn't take a camera. The paper wouldn't take in the pen. Because people don't want that kind of evidence. And they destroy it immediately. That means that the attacking (s) is not human or animal .....
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.