August 16, 2022, 06:47:33 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Murder Indead  (Read 40681 times)

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February 13, 2022, 02:18:35 PM
Reply #150
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Loose Cannon, I still have doubts it was cut from the inside at all. I saw a demonstration once about the difference in cuts from a sharp object when cutting through canvas from both inside and out. There wasn't an obvious difference in places. Also, where were these knives they cut the tent with? It was clearly more than 1 that shredded the thing as it did, so where are they? The knives found in the tent were still in their cases and not found near the opening of the tent at all. Its a mystery.

I also have doubts about the tent being cut from the inside.
DB
 

February 15, 2022, 05:34:51 AM
Reply #151
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Charles


Hello sarapuk,

I think they didn't like their tent. It was in very poor condition, they always had to "mend" it (Zina's diary) or "sew" it (unknown diary). The tent was at least once the occasion of a serious argument : "so they had a long argument, of who will sew the tent. Finally K. Tibo gave up and took a needle. Lyuda remained seated. And we sewed the hole (and there were so many that there was enough work for all except two attendants and Lyuda. Guys are terribly outraged." Nikolay was a punished, and as part of his punishment was to sew the tent... And there is only one photo where the tent seems to be the main subject (Slobodin's frame 26).

If for any reason one of the hikers was secretly smoldering anger and rage, the tent could have been a target at the day of wrath. For example : if there was another crack in the tissue during the night and someone was appointed to sew... We can imagine: "- Get up and fix the problem ! - Why me ? - Do it ! - But I'll have to go outside, and I can't do it by myself, we need to be at least two ! - Then another will go with you ! - No, I won't go." So two of the hikers prepare to go outside, get shoes and clothes, but they continue to argue and accuse the one who refused to get up, and at that point, for him, it's too much, all accumulated resentment surges, he cuts the tent. Then there is a first fight, chaos, screams. Some flee the scene. Then they calm down a bit and they join the others at the cedar. At first hey try to organize themselves. But some die of hypothermia, fight starts again and others are murdered...

I made a table summarizing all tensions mentioned in available documents (between two individuals and between an individual and the group), and all symptoms of degradation of social abilities amongst the hikers. The result is quite interesting but I don't know how to upload a table. Cutting the tent and giving up the group is the same thing, and several individuals had at least one issue with the group (Dyatlov, Dubinina, Thibeaux, Krivonischenko, Kolevatov...). And as typical materialistic soviets, they always repaired the tent, but never repaired any relationship... there are testimonies of: quarrel, rudeness, cursing, argument, conflict, and even double bind (or "paradoxal injonction", see Gregory Bateson), frustration... in the documents, but not a single testimony of a reconciliation and forgiveness.

PS : So cutting the tent from the inside could relate to the well-known phenomenon of "school shooting" which is so common in the USA.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
 

June 21, 2022, 01:47:20 PM
Reply #152
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Per Inge Oestmoen



Per Inge Oestmoen
Quote
no bullet wounds or knife cuts
To be honest, we have some evidence of knife cuts.
Autopsy report of Igor Dyatlov:
 In the area of the palm surface of the second and fifth fingers there is a skin wound of irregular linear shape with regular edges located transverse to the length of the fingers; the surface wounds are up to 0.1 (or 0.2 – note) cm deep.


Quote
But the main question of why the victims were not simply shot
the victims were  injured with one blow. Simply  and effectively.
Quote
But the main question of why the victims were not simply shot
the simplest answer is  - attacers didnt have weapons.
 Weapons were strictly prohibited in USSR except for hunting weapons. If it is correct assumption,  we can exclude some categories of people attacker did not belong
1) sololders (army, KGB)
2) hunters
3) organized criminal groups
 But the blows were very effective. This tells us that attackers were  very well trained to kill. Special Forces? Without weapons?  nea1
What about the people who had have this training and took part in еspecial forces operations  during the WWII? They were 30+ in 1959.
 

If the victims had been shot, it would be impossible to make the murder look like an accident. It was very important to communicate to the public that this tragedy was an accident. The staunch insisting that an avalanche was responsible is testimony to the Soviet and later Russian governments' desire to conceal the truth. Now it has been scientifically and conclusively proven that there was no avalanche. Moreover, the injuries found on the bodies are inconsistent with what we observe after avalanches. Still, the authorities maintain that the tragedy was a natural accident.

The wound in the hand of Dyatlov is very likely from a bayonet. Dyatlov tried to fight, and tried to get hold on a rifle - and he was cut as the attacker probably withdrew the rifle in order to control Dyatlov in close combat.

Special forces - and the KGB were extremely well trained in close combat - know how to kill without firearms, and the orchestration and execution of "accidents," "natural deaths" and "suicides" is typical of killing by special forces, unless they want the public to know what happened.

To kill the nine students, who were loyal Soviet citizens and belonging to the privileged, with firearms would create protest and possibly political unrest. That would be a most irrational thing to do. The intelligent thing to do was what was done: To kill in such a was as to make it look like an accident. There was a sudden rise in temperature during the night between February 1 and February 2. That rise in temperature foiled the plot: The students did not freeze to death soon. Therefore, they had to be hunted down and dispatched. If there had been no rise in temperature, the nine would have died from freezing as intended - and very few would have understood that they had been murdered in cold blood.
 

June 21, 2022, 04:25:00 PM
Reply #153
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Ziljoe


Who's thumb is that!?

All the deaths are consistent with exposure and hypothermia. The avalanche theory varies from snow slide to slip of a small amount of snow. Not some tidal wave of endless amount of snow.

I interpret it to being the reason of leaving the tent. All injuries occurred after the exit of the tent, whether that be physical attack, environment , Wolverine . I struggle to get my head round the logistics of murder of 9 people. There's easier ways to do it. Plus , I've said before and I'll say it again. An organised/ planned murder would not leave any film from cameras behind. If one is trained in killing and on a mission , you take away all potential from being found.

If it was murder it's not premeditated in my opinion. It's sloppy.
 

June 21, 2022, 10:21:01 PM
Reply #154
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Charles


Per Inge Oestmoen

To be honest, we have some evidence of knife cuts.
Autopsy report of Igor Dyatlov:
In the area of the palm surface of the second and fifth fingers there is a skin wound of irregular linear shape with regular edges located transverse to the length of the fingers; the surface wounds are up to 0.1 (or 0.2 – note) cm deep.

The image you chose does not match the text of the autopsy.  According to autopsy there was: "a skin wound of irregular linear shape" (the edges are "regular" and the linear shape is "irregular".) but on the image you chose it is a skin wound of regular linear shape. And 0.1-0.2 cm is really a very superficial wound for a chaotic event involving violence, fight, despair, anger, death and life, etc. People can easily get deeper wounds in their kitchens, in much more quiet and serene surroundings.

It would be nice if you could find and choose an image matching the autopsy description.

Greetings

Charles
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 10:32:21 PM by Charles »
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.