June 18, 2021, 05:01:10 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

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91
A few questions: Why did all 8 hikers rush out when one or two could have rescued the one rolling down the slope? Then if help was still needed, the others would have time to put on shoes and coats. If the person in distress had rolled 60, 70 or a 100 meters, wouldn't at least a few of the footsteps found at 50-60 meters show people running? How are you going to catch up to the person rolling when you are walking in an orderly fashion? Also, the hikers were only wearing shirts and ski pants. At minus 20-30℉ with wind speeds of 50-60 km/h, they in all likelihood would have died from hypothermia before even reaching the forest.
we don't have to know all the details. Maybe one flew away by wind, his body was smashed on the ground, he screamed for help, maybe he was bleeding from head and had wounds, he couldn't walk. Some rushed to help him but couldn't get back to tent, so others went trying to help those, etc. Then nobody couldn't get back.
Maybe they didn't think they needed shoes or coats.
But yes I understand the footsteps walking down in calmly manner is a bit problem...
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General Discussion / Re: how did they start the fire
« Last post by EBE on May 26, 2021, 07:04:52 AM »
That is a difficult question.

If the fire was a standard one, not an emergency one, the burned legs and hand can be explained by a violence from other members of the group or from some other people. The violence theory is explained by forensic expert Eduard Tumanov - from 17. minute of this video:

https://www.vbox7.com/play:9da88828ce

But there can be another explanations. The fire was in fact an emergency one, but the group was divided and the people who started the fire (two Juris) were not able to maintain it - there was wind, maybe they were not really used to make fire in such unfavorable conditions, etc..

Also, the "observation window" in the cedar: the branches were not cut, but broken (and they were quite thick). This also indicates some kind of emergency situation. As with most facts in the DPI, the evidence here is contradicting:).
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By the way, the photo of Mansi Kurikov I posted above proves that the old skis found by the Yakimenko expedition were Mansi skis..
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Hi Manti,

very good questions! However, I doubt anyone would have reliable answers:(.

How did you find the photos? They are not in the Photos section of Dyatlovpass.com.

By the way, even if the fist photo does not show the slope where the tent was, the location of the tent (market with ski poles) is prone to at least a relatively small avalanche:


95
General Discussion / Re: Thoughts on the book
« Last post by Teddy on May 25, 2021, 12:16:00 PM »
my question was how dirty could they get in the snow and ice, not much unless...
They have been in an accident, of course they would be dirty. Some of you want more dirt (EBE), others less dirt (RidgeWatcher), make up your mind.

In our account of events the storage (labaz) was where later the tent was pitched (not by Dyatlov group).
After finding the tent pinned by the tree and bodies in and out (the labaz was flagged with a gaiter and must have been one of the first things they saw on the slope) they flew the bodies found so far (5+1) to the morgue. This is before they felt threatened. They didn't expect a search, it was normal to scavenge the original labaz, fold the tent, keep looking for more bodies till they knew who they are and how many.

Then all hell broke loose. Massive search, they don't know how many are in the group, what will be their injuries, so they hastily put the tent on the slope to account for the scattered items from the original labaz which the snow has covered, put the bodies back since there will be more bodies, so they can't move them away, how will it look when they find the ones still unaccounted for... Then the diary is found, and it says in it that they were planning on building a storage... so the conspirators need to produce a storage... and put in it the items they took from the original storage like boots, mandolin, they add food from the Ivdellag, not really making thorough calculation of the food, they knew what was approximately in the original labaz, they just didn't keep it since there was not suppose to be any investigation. The hikers died in an accident... but before they knew who they were, Moscow, Khrushchev and everyone else was on their heels. They were obviously interrupted, the positioning of the bodies is suggestive of dragging and dumping. The labaz was not even there when the search started. According to Yarovoy, the storage was 10 meters away from the ski track from the search camp to the pass. 30 feet and for 5 days no one saw it going up and down like trail of ants.

In short - the labaz was removed routinely... and then when everyone started looking for a storage they gave them one 10 m away to be found. There are items in this labaz that are hard to explain, like the cardboard on the bottom, where did that come from? The storage was marked with a torn gaiter strung on skis, the whole setup looks like a storage built on a treeless slope, not in a forest. Everyone says that if a storage is left in a forest it has to look differently. When locals are asked what do they think of the Dyatlov group labaz, the answer is where do you see a labaz? This is what a labaz should look like (https://dyatlovpass.com/controversy#labaz), the provisions have to be raised on trees or else they will have the fate of Dubinina's eyes and tongue. Even the fact that the food in the storage was undisturbed means that it was very recently left there, not a month earlier. The labaz was officially found on March 2.

More on the labaz: https://dyatlovpass.com/labaz
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That phot is not of Kholat Syakul.
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General Discussion / Re: Thoughts on the book
« Last post by RidgeWatcher on May 25, 2021, 10:59:31 AM »
Hello Teddy,

You have answered my question in your book regarding why Nurse Solter would have the need to clean the very dirty six bodies in the morgue, my question was how dirty could they get in the snow and ice, not much unless...

My second question here is after the tragedy occurred in the forest, then why would the makeshift cache be developed. I did read the book and I know a good amount of food provisions were missing but why the cache after the accident? I always picture the mandolin laying there, sadly.
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General Discussion / Re: Thoughts on the book
« Last post by MDGross on May 25, 2021, 06:34:51 AM »
Correction (apologies to Sir Winston): "...failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."
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General Discussion / Re: Thoughts on the book
« Last post by MDGross on May 25, 2021, 06:26:12 AM »
By asking questions, we honor the memory of the brave Dyatlov nine. Something happened that night because we see the tragic result. Our hope is that some day our questions will be answered at last. Until that day arrives, and perhaps it never will, we will continue to ask questions. To quote Churchill: "...failure is not final; it is the courage to continue that counts."
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General Discussion / Thoughts on the book
« Last post by Jacques-Emile on May 24, 2021, 07:13:45 AM »
Why?  It is testimony and belief, from persons unknown in honor of the nine travelers who died so cruelly, that is why we do this.  We - most of whom were not even born that fateful day - insist that they deserve more than an epitaph of lies and a hasty grave.  They were PERSONS, they were HUMAN, and they deserve a gentle and somber history of the TRUTH of what happened, and for this we explore here.  If I am ever in Yekaterinburg, I shall bury in a small box a copy of the book in Russian, a tasteful distance near their graves in Ivanovskoe and Mikhailovskoe Cemeteries, for they deserve to be buried with the truth, at the best that we can find it now.  The book is not sacred, but the effort to speak the truth of the dead, is.

Before that time, a character in Koestler's Darkness at Noon stated the following brilliancy:

Quote
There are only two conceptions of human ethics and they are at opposite poles.
One of them is Christian and humane, declares the individual to be sacrosanct and asserts that the rules of arithmetic are not to be applied to human units.
The other starts from the basic principle that a collective aim justifies all means, and not only allows, but demands, that the individual should in every way be subordinated and sacrificed to the community which may dispose of it as an experimentation rabbit or a sacrificial lamb. The first conception could be called anti-vivisection morality, the second, vivisection morality.
Whoever is burdened with power and responsibility finds out on the first occasion that he has to choose; and he is fatally driven to the second alternative.
So he speaks, is that true?

I do know that we all walk with one foot in the province of the zek, and one foot in the province of Beria.  We pretend that this is not so, but it is all too easy to slip into puppetry, playing a game of the Dyatlov corpses, moving these poor meat puppets hither and yon, crushing a skull with a rifle but or blasting a chest with explosives or avalanches or such, and we risk profaning the sancrosanct, our brothers and sisters who died in such undeserving ways.

What I completed in my own heart was not solving the ultimate riddle - that will never be done, for every riddle solved brings on the next.  I was done, to the point that I could lay these poor souls down to await their eternity.  I no longer feel quizzical about them, just unbelievably sad for these poor children.  Whether it was God's hand or man's that snuffed them out, whether they died where they lay or were dragged about indifferently by selfish men after their demise, that now lays in the hand of justice other than mine.

I most emphatically endorse and support those who look for the sacredness implicit in justice and truth, for that struggle does honor to these men and women.  Carry on!  But for me, it no longer turns toward the province of the zek, but that of Beria and Stalin.  I must not sport with them any more.  That is my truth, my conscience, not yours.  I wanted to add this because I do not drop these poor souls as though I am bored with them.  It is time for me to bury them in reverence, that is why.
Darkness at Noon, Arthur Koestler 1940.  Also read a remarkable writer, Yevgeny Zamyatin, whose book WE inspired lesser efforts from George Orwell in 1984, Aldous Huxley in Brave New World, and various writings of Alisa Zinovyevna Rosenbaum, graduate of Petrograd State University who wrote as Ayn Rand.
Joy upon all who come here, and gratitude to the writers of 1079.
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