October 20, 2021, 09:19:56 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

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91
General Discussion / Re: sarapuk
« Last post by Ziljoe on September 06, 2021, 06:23:10 AM »
Sorry to have been off the Forum for so long without mentioning anything. Thank you for any concerns. I needed a rest from the Forum. Amongst other things I have been busy setting up an archaeological society in England. I will be back in action again on the Forum.

Good news  clap1
92
General Discussion / Re: sarapuk
« Last post by Morski on September 06, 2021, 01:38:19 AM »
Sorry to have been off the Forum for so long without mentioning anything. Thank you for any concerns. I needed a rest from the Forum. Amongst other things I have been busy setting up an archaeological society in England. I will be back in action again on the Forum.

 thumb1
93
General Discussion / Re: sarapuk
« Last post by sarapuk on September 06, 2021, 01:34:08 AM »
Sorry to have been off the Forum for so long without mentioning anything. Thank you for any concerns. I needed a rest from the Forum. Amongst other things I have been busy setting up an archaeological society in England. I will be back in action again on the Forum.
94
R.I.P. / Re: R.I.P. Yuri Kuntsevich
« Last post by sarapuk on September 06, 2021, 01:25:01 AM »
Sorry to hear this news. He did an admiral job.
95
General Discussion / Re: They could NOT have been crushed by snow!
« Last post by Paf on September 05, 2021, 04:54:25 PM »

 Naturally the real presentation of TOKwill be quite lengthy...


I'll be following !
There are a few things I can't make sens of with any existing murder theory, but I'll let you all chances to convince me.
96
Publications / Media / Re: Ivdellag breaks in 1959
« Last post by Jean Daniel Reuss on September 05, 2021, 03:06:16 PM »


°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
 Hakimov's interrogation provides an additional confirmation to the TOK theory
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

Indeed for the TOK theory the answer to Hakimov's interrogation is particularly simple and logical :
Pashin and Cheglatov reached the tent on February 25 and were observed by Patrushev and Karpushin.

For an introduction to  TOK , currently (September 2021) under construction, see :

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=866.msg16593#msg16593    (After the rows "Reply #103 - Quote from: KFinn on March 29.........").

A more detailed explanation requires to return on the events before February 26, 1959.



§-1-   Capture of the attackers before the 6th of February 1959.

The 3 attackers (mercenary murderers) were unsavoury characters who were known to and watched by the police and the KGB.
Shortly after their return from the Kholat Syakhl, the 3 mercenaries (or maybe only one) were arrested and "adequatly" interrogated.

So on 6 February 1959 the KGB did not know everything about the DPI, but the KGB was sure that the 9 hikers were dead (1 tongue and 4 eyes) and knew approximately the location of the tent.  (Note: Sharavin even refers to February 4.)

This constituted a case that could be qualified as of moderate importance but nevertheless serious since nearly all the victims had been through the prestigious UPI.

One of the missions of the KGB is intelligence, control and security of the (soviet) populations. It is not to go to have fun or to do winter sports in the mountains.
There was no question of going out into the snow to check. There was no point in trying to put on a deceptive show. No premature initiatives.

Consequently, in the following days, for the KGB in this case the course of action was clear.
Wait en See
The KGB therefore waits patiently for the foreseeable triggering of the rescue or search operations that will inevitably occur at the initiative of the UPI and the parents.




§-2-   Beginning of the search operations.

The waiting was not very long because about two weeks later in fact, it is the arrival of the first groups of rescuers in Vizhay, which is then quickly transferred to the snowy ground in a search area.

(Simultaneously, air search means are also organized from the Ivdel airfield ).

Thus before the official discovery of the tent by Slobstovv and Sharavin on February 26, 1959.


But, before February 25, the KGB contacted two ordinary citizens (Pashin and Cheglakov) who were known to be efficient at moving quickly in the countryside and incorporates the 2 men into the Slobtsov group.

the Slobtsov group was the only group of students with whom two more local people went in search: the head of the fire department of the same log camp, an experienced hunter Aleksey Cheglakov and a forester of Vizhay Ivan Vasilyevich Pashin.

Slobtsov group = Slobtsov + Sharavin + Pashin + Cheglakov     +   Brusnitsyn,Devyatov,Koptelov,Krotov,Lebedev,Strelnikov,Halizov.

Ivan Pashin    and     Aleksey Cheglakov

 

The KGB instructed Pashin and Cheglakov to discreetly check that (according to the KGB first predictions) the empty tent was indeed on the slope of Kholat Syakhl. And Pashin and Cheglakov succeeded in this minor mission by finding the tent on 25 February, before Slobtsov and Sharavin.

So back at the base camp, on February 25, Pashin and Cheglakov carefully avoid any declaration and remain mute.



   « Slobtsov's group camp site. From left to right: Devyatov-Halizov-Cheglakov. The photo was taken before Feb 26. »


Moreover, on February 26, Slobtsov and Sharavin, are surprised that Pashin, (who in principle should be professionally very enduring), declares himself quickly tired and stops at the pass. Obviously, Pashin, who is not the kind of person who likes to act, does not want to say that he has already seen the tent the day before on the 25th. He has to leave Slobtsov and Sharavin under the illusion that they are the first discoverers of the tent on February 26.


 
§-3-   Observations of the 2 pilots on February 25.

But also, on February 25, at some time interval, the pilots Patrushev and Karpushin also located the tent and examined by successive passes in low altitude, what they perceived (wrongly) to be 2 lifeless bodies.

a)  ••• Gennadiy vasilyevich Patrushev on board of Yakovlev  Yak 12A,  (Empty weight = 1059 kg, powerplant = 250 hp)

   

The first one to fly over the tent is probably Patrushevv because he was relatively the best informed about the route of Dyatlov's group.

Gennadiy Patrushev «knew personally the students, met them in Ivdel, ...and he also first discovered their bodies on the mountainside...»

«...In Ivdel, he [Gennadiy Patrushev] meets a group of Igor Dyatlov. People with same age and romantic in character, they quickly find a common interestes, friendship is fastened..... Arriving home, Gennadiy talks about them with warmth and respect and promises to introduce me [Valentina Gamatina] to everyone, especially with Zina [Kolmogorova], with whom, according to Gennadiy, we are similar in appearance and in character...»

Interview of Valeriya Nikolaevna Gamatina widow of the pilot Patrushev :

«... He [Gennadiy Patrushev] was well acquainted with Igor [Dyatlov], quickly converged, the benefits of age were almost the same and Igor purposefully asked him about these mountains. Otorten....»
«... And then he [Gennadiy Patrushev] arrives and says to me: "Listen, I met a group of students, Zina Kolmogorova - she is a spitting image of you, talking and laughing and appearance...»

«...When we were raised on alert and flew, I [Patrushev] remembered them discussing going there, and I flew in exactly the direction they must have gone. I saw the tent with slits and two bodies. The bodies lay with their heads to the tent...»
 
b)  •••  Georgiy Aleksandrovich Karpushin on board of Antonov An-2, (Empty weight = 3,300 kg, powerplant = 1010 hp)

   

«...February 25, the weather was just wonderful. Mountains against the background of a clear, clear sky created a calm, gracious mood. From Ivdel airport almost simultaneously in the air soared 7 aircraft...

...we saw very clearly the tent stuck to the eastern slope of the mountain ...

... I remember we made a lot of runs over the tent. It was clearly visible that it was cut from the north. Straight by the tent, a corpse of a woman lay judging by her long hair. A little further away lay another body....»





§-4-    Hakimov's interrogation is wholly and brilliantly explained by the TOK theory.

1°) •  For Pashin and Cheglakov the second day of the search is February 25, which means that they found the tent one day before Slobtsov and Sharavin

On February 22, « a group of students led by Boris Slobtsov..arrive in Vizhay ».
On February 23, « the Slobtsov group is flown to Otorten,  6 of us were dropped off from a helicopter... ».
On February 24, that is  on the first day of the search, « once descended into the Auspiya we [Slobtsov group] found ski tracks from the hikers. Here we pitched a tent, spend the night.... »
On February 25, that is [the second day] « we [Slobtsov group] were divided into 3 groups and went to look for the hikers,
as a result of the search we [Pashin and Cheglakov] found a tent
» [quickly and easily] with belongings [/i] »[because the KGB had indicated us the right place] that was not clearly seen since it was covered with snow, we did not go into the tent »[in accordance with the KGB instructions]
The other menbers of the Slobtsov group « going up and down Auspiya valley --->  On the left bank of the river were barely noticeable snow-covered ski tracks. »
On February 26, Slobtsov and Sharavin officially discovered the tent.

2°) •  Patrushev and shortly afterwards Karpushin saw two motionless bodies lying near the tent and they falsely concluded that they were lifeless bodies (by a mental process similar to pareidolia).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

But these were not two corpses that were examined low in the air by Patrushev and Karpushin. On the contrary, they were two men aged 51 and 35 years old, very much alive.

They were merely Pashin and Cheglakov who had several reasons to lie down in the snow and look placidly at the sky. (February 25, the weather was just wonderful....)
  1 - They are a little physically tired by their fast ascent to the tent.
  2 - They wanted to rest for a bit so that they could return to the rescuers' base camp discreetly and quickly.
  3 - They are worried or concerned about their unwilling involvement in the weird trick that the KGB was making them play.  Which may bring them more trouble than benefits...
  4 - They are interested by the evolutions of the planes which revolve above the tent.
It is not every day that we can attend an impressive free aerial show in the region of Kholat Syakhl !!

3°) •   ...a woman lay judging by her long hair...

Simply a funny visual misinterpretation: the weather was just wonderful and Pashin did not fasten the ear covers of his Chapka that spreadon each side of his head.

Typical occurrence of the pareidolia phenomenon.
Pareidolia is an expression of the brain's tendency to create meaning by assimilating random shapes into referenced shapes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

(All the more likely that during these difficult and dangerous low-level flights, the pilots were mainly occupied with not crashing their aircraft.)



4°) •  The forgotten flashlight
Tempalov « « does not mention the flashlight in the protocol on the discovery of the campsite, although he was obliged. Maybe because Cheglakov and Pashin confessed to him that it was their flashlight ? Maybe   this explains the fact that Tempalov does not show much interest in inspecting the tent, knowing that since the tragedy many  [Pashin and Cheglakov] have already visited and examined it... » [on February 25].

5°) • Obviously Pashin and Cheglakov didn't tell anybody about this essential finding neither on February 24 25, returning to the base camp, nor...[/i]
Pashin and Cheglakov claims that they found the tent on the second day of the search, that is, on February 24  February 25
and they both say nothing to nobody. [ yes : in accordance with the KGB guidelines. ]

 Maybe someone   [Surely the KGB] gave instructions to Pashin and Cheglakov ahead of time not to tell anyone about the tent, and the investigator [certainely]  knows this ?

As a partial result we may conclude that the TOK theory is, in fact, a  modern conspiracy theory or modern hypothesis that is able to fully and completely reconstruct the DPI.


6°) • 50 years afterwards, it is not surprising that Slobtsov and Sharavin have a little forgotten and are confused about who is who.



Members of the search party Boris E. Slobtsov (left) and Michael Petrovich Sharavin in 2009.

«...didn't know the terrain, as a guide was very inadequate, pretended to be sick on the pass, behaved strangely, didn't have a map...»

 "Sharavin is confusing Pashin’s occupation to be firefighter when he is a forester - ed. note"
97
General Discussion / Re: New monument
« Last post by Teddy on September 05, 2021, 11:59:58 AM »
Координаты памятника:
61.758937, 59.428684

Great! Thank you!
98
General Discussion / Re: New monument
« Last post by Игорь Б. on September 05, 2021, 11:31:34 AM »
99
General Discussion / Re: New monument
« Last post by Teddy on September 05, 2021, 09:47:20 AM »
Игорь Б., do you know where I can get a bigger photo or another photo from expedition 2021



and why are the coordinates (61.7573606 59.4359638) on this photo so off?
https://goo.gl/maps/SaB3c2hidY8fYcTSA

100
General Discussion / Re: They could NOT have been crushed by snow!
« Last post by Jean Daniel Reuss on September 05, 2021, 08:52:37 AM »


Reply #102
.....
I did just (moments ago, oddly!!) read an interview from 2012 with Askinadzi who said there were no stained clothes when he helped Yuri Yudin inventory the clothing from the tent.  Another list to make; who saw stains and who refutes them so I can compare perspectives!!
........................
Sort of.  It was posted in another group on Facebook, but without a link.  The interview was with Maya Piskareva in 2012, but I don't know where it was initially published.  There are snippets of it on this site, under the article "Chicken ala Otorten."  The text is very lengthy, and the part about the colored clothing is all the way at the end.  It was posted as "part 1."  I am hoping to get more information on where this originated, so if this looks familiar to anyone, please feel free to fill in the gaps!!!!

"Maria Piskareva  by V. Askinadzi: "We are the last of the Mohicans ..."
................
Posted on 09/10/2012, revised 02/17/2015
.........................
Vladimir Askinadzi tells ...

The first interview from Vladimir Askindazi, by Maya Piskareva Reply #102, seems to be well back in 2012, (Posted on 09/10/2012, revised 02/17/2015).

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=866.msg14752#msg14752
I also found this link in Russian (I translated with DeepL), dated October-November 2013 and which does not make any significant changes it seems to me.
http://samlib.ru/p/piskarewa_m_l/sharavinkontakt.shtml



Reply #103
Also, please note.  Some of Askinadzi's thoughts in the unknown interview oppose his thoughts in this interview:

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=244.0

(Mainly he differs on the theory of murder/killers.)

Indeed there is another interview which seems to date from 2018, which would have given Askinadzi 6 years to "think a lot" and conclude that the 9 hikers were murdered.


Natalya Varsegova and Vladimir Askindazi

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=244.msg1451#msg1451

To hide the truth about the murder of Dyatlov group, the authorities came up with a missile version.
       Authors Nikolay Varsegov and Natalya Varsegova

https://dyatlovpass.com/askinadzi?filter_page=3&rbid=18461

Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass ?

Vladimir Mihaylovich  Askinadzi ==>
 « I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions. Well, again, these inexplicable injuries. Don’t ask me, I don’t know who or why  they were murdered. But this seems to me the only explanation of their death.





Me too "I thought a lot about this" and I (slowly) came to a criminological theory (more rigorously an explanatory hypothesis) which is able to answer easily to
WHO ?  -  WHY ?  -  HOW  ? 

This theory was naturally formed by gathering the individual contributions of 3 main authors who are : Eduard Tumanov, Per Inge Oestmoen, Aleks Kandr.

 Therefore, in recognition and in tribute to its 3 main pillars or 3 founding fathers I have chosen the name of TOK theory.

TOK theory = Eduard Tumanov + Per Inge Oestmoen + Aleks Kandr =  murder or relentless Altercation on the pass

Obviously there are many other posts on this forum that are involved in the development of TOK. But those do not contain as much development as the 3 founding fathers (T, O and K). There are also texts and forums in Russian (difficult for myself since DeepL is necessary for me) and articles in French language of French sovietologists.

But first a warning: TOK is for those who are not repelled by criminal theories ( Криминальные ).

As WAB said: «...You need a very large amount of text to explain your position. Especially considering the fact that many positions need to be explained in great detail, because they are not understood on a domestic level.......... I'm not a writer, I'm a researcher, I want the physical result of what happened, not the number of letters on a paper ...». Naturally the real presentation of TOKwill be quite lengthy...

Nevertheless if you were interested and would like to have a first feel of TOK now, you may read the following URL.   
                                                   

       T  --->  https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.msg4945#msg4945
          --->  + some videos on this site with sound in Russian (hard for me to follow).

       O  --->  https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=325

       K  --->  http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova
          --->  https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=1002.0


And, you may also have a glimpse into the mental process by which the TOK theory has progressively become clearer in my mind by reading some of my previous posts :

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=714.msg16051#msg16051      ( Ivdellag breaks in 1959; Reply #3 :May 17, 2021 )
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=844.msg16275#msg16275      ( Army Tactician - Definitely Ambush, potential events; Reply #17 :June 10, 2021 )
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=433.msg16299#msg16299      ( Lyudmila Dubinina's premonition of her tragic death; Reply #46 :June 20, 2021 )
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.msg16307#msg16307      ( Altercation on the pas; Reply #60 :June 23, 2021 )
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=961.msg16384#msg16384      ( The Tent was cut to make it useless; Reply #1 :July 16, 2021 )

What a shame !  Finally, after the indecisions of a long engagement, I am now married to the most beautiful and intellectually appealing of all the explanatory hypotheses of the DPI : the TOK theory.
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