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General Discussion / Re: Tent was their lifeboat
« Last post by Jean Daniel Reuss on Today at 04:20:41 PM »One of the enigmas raised by the DPI is: "Why did they come out of the tent underdressed? »
One possible answer that is very satisfying is: "Because the atmosphere inside the tent had suddenly become unbreathable. »
This answer had already been found, see:
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=447.0
Liyla79 General Discussion > I have figured it out
June 20, 2019, 02:15:20 AM The group were deliberately GASSED out of the tent.
This is what I am developing in a more complete way in my scenario N°2 which I think extends the arguments of Per Inge Ostermoen... and others .
See ;
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=484.0
April 07, 2020, 12:44:33 PM Reply #19
There was an attack by some ex-zeks from settlement 41.
The question changes to: "How to quickly make the inside of a 5 m³ enclosed space unbreathable? »
One possible answer is very simple. In fact, at the age of 13, I had learned in college exactly how to do it with 1 or 2 kg of inexpensive products.
And moreover I was doing small demonstrations but OUTSIDE with only 1 g of product.
This is the reaction :
202 g of potassium nitrate mixed with 128 g of sulphur provide 67.2 litres of sulphur dioxide (measured at 0°C)
The (high) speed of combustion (rather deflagration) depends on the fineness of the 2 powders and the humidity.
Note:
Of course other suffocating gases are conceivable but KNO³ and S are (or were) particularly easy to acquire without attracting attention in the USSR as elsewhere.
With potassium chlorate it is almost the same:
Cl² is better than SO² but sodium hypochlorite and hydrochloric acid are in liquid form difficult to use in surprise attack.
Also, from 9 p.m. the head attacker lights the wick and by spreading one side of the tent opening introduces 3.3 kg of the ignited mixture 2 KNO³ + 4 S.
Within 30 seconds 672 litres of SO² are released in the 4 m³ of the tent interior.
I can guarantee you that all 9 hikers came out of the tent in terrible coughing fits.
The 9 hikers had a burning sensation in their eyes and could hardly see anything.
This also explains the knife lacerations made, without much effectiveness, from inside the tent.
Note that 10 minutes later the effects of the SO² had (almost?) disappeared and on this point they could have been considered almost healed.
But what is important is that the moment they left the tent in a state of inferiority the attackers immediately started hitting them with blunt objects. (cf. Tumanov)
They try to channel them in one direction by hitting them continuously.
The number of ex-zek attackers is hard to determine.
I imagine there are three strikers, but that is debatable. One leading them down the slope; the other two are on either side of the line that is forming.
In complete darkness the 12 staggering black figures are barely visible against the white background of the snow. The ground is slippery and uneven. Violent and imprecise blows are made on both sides almost at random. But blunt objects are more effective than bare fists...
• Around 10 p.m. first Kolmogorova, then Slobodin and finally Dyatlov, despite a desperate defence, lie unconscious on the slope. They are badly banged up and have bloody fists from hitting. The cold will soon finish them off.
The contact is broken. The 3 ex-zeks go back up to the empty tent and wait while they regain some of their strength from the punches they have received. They know that the six remaining hikers will not be able to reach settlement 41 without skis.
• midnight. A light in the night: it is the fire under the cedar. Doroshenko is attacked when krivonishenko is at the top of the cedar cutting green branches to maintain the fire. He is burned at the legs with a burning branch from the fire.
• 2 February around 1 p.m... Doroshenko and Krinonishenko lie unconscious at the foot of the cedar and the cold will soon finish them off.
As there are still 4 hikers to find and kill, a tactic of the Mongolian army will be able to serve.
Disappear temporarily to make the survivors believe it is over, then return to the scene and finish the job.
• 2 February around 5 p.m... The job of the ex-zeks is over, it has been hard !
to be continued...
One possible answer that is very satisfying is: "Because the atmosphere inside the tent had suddenly become unbreathable. »
This answer had already been found, see:
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=447.0
Liyla79 General Discussion > I have figured it out
June 20, 2019, 02:15:20 AM The group were deliberately GASSED out of the tent.
This is what I am developing in a more complete way in my scenario N°2 which I think extends the arguments of Per Inge Ostermoen... and others .
See ;
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=484.0
April 07, 2020, 12:44:33 PM Reply #19
There was an attack by some ex-zeks from settlement 41.
The question changes to: "How to quickly make the inside of a 5 m³ enclosed space unbreathable? »
One possible answer is very simple. In fact, at the age of 13, I had learned in college exactly how to do it with 1 or 2 kg of inexpensive products.
And moreover I was doing small demonstrations but OUTSIDE with only 1 g of product.
This is the reaction :
2.KNO³ + 4.S --> 3.SO² + N² + K²S
202 g of potassium nitrate mixed with 128 g of sulphur provide 67.2 litres of sulphur dioxide (measured at 0°C)
The (high) speed of combustion (rather deflagration) depends on the fineness of the 2 powders and the humidity.
Note:
Of course other suffocating gases are conceivable but KNO³ and S are (or were) particularly easy to acquire without attracting attention in the USSR as elsewhere.
With potassium chlorate it is almost the same:
2.KClO³ + 3.S ---> 3.SO² + 2.KCl
Cl² is better than SO² but sodium hypochlorite and hydrochloric acid are in liquid form difficult to use in surprise attack.
HOCl + HCl ---> Cl² + H²O
Also, from 9 p.m. the head attacker lights the wick and by spreading one side of the tent opening introduces 3.3 kg of the ignited mixture 2 KNO³ + 4 S.
Within 30 seconds 672 litres of SO² are released in the 4 m³ of the tent interior.
I can guarantee you that all 9 hikers came out of the tent in terrible coughing fits.
The 9 hikers had a burning sensation in their eyes and could hardly see anything.
This also explains the knife lacerations made, without much effectiveness, from inside the tent.
Note that 10 minutes later the effects of the SO² had (almost?) disappeared and on this point they could have been considered almost healed.
..... If the tent was filled with toxic fumes, why not just step outside and wait for the fumes to dissipate? ................................
But what is important is that the moment they left the tent in a state of inferiority the attackers immediately started hitting them with blunt objects. (cf. Tumanov)
They try to channel them in one direction by hitting them continuously.
The number of ex-zek attackers is hard to determine.
I imagine there are three strikers, but that is debatable. One leading them down the slope; the other two are on either side of the line that is forming.
In complete darkness the 12 staggering black figures are barely visible against the white background of the snow. The ground is slippery and uneven. Violent and imprecise blows are made on both sides almost at random. But blunt objects are more effective than bare fists...
• Around 10 p.m. first Kolmogorova, then Slobodin and finally Dyatlov, despite a desperate defence, lie unconscious on the slope. They are badly banged up and have bloody fists from hitting. The cold will soon finish them off.
The contact is broken. The 3 ex-zeks go back up to the empty tent and wait while they regain some of their strength from the punches they have received. They know that the six remaining hikers will not be able to reach settlement 41 without skis.
• midnight. A light in the night: it is the fire under the cedar. Doroshenko is attacked when krivonishenko is at the top of the cedar cutting green branches to maintain the fire. He is burned at the legs with a burning branch from the fire.
• 2 February around 1 p.m... Doroshenko and Krinonishenko lie unconscious at the foot of the cedar and the cold will soon finish them off.
As there are still 4 hikers to find and kill, a tactic of the Mongolian army will be able to serve.
Disappear temporarily to make the survivors believe it is over, then return to the scene and finish the job.
• 2 February around 5 p.m... The job of the ex-zeks is over, it has been hard !
to be continued...
