November 29, 2020, 11:25:32 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

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Introductions / Re: I say goodbye
« Last post by Morski on Today at 09:50:05 PM »
Sad to hear this, dear WAB. Thank you for the effort and good bye!

Martin thanky1
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Introductions / I say goodbye
« Last post by WAB on Today at 03:20:04 PM »
Dear friends, it's time say goodbye. I will not write anything on this forum anymore, so I want to wish you success in studying this hopeless ( grin1 - it's joke) case.
There is very little reliable and verified information. Even in translated texts there are a lot of errors and misunderstandings of meaning. This is a misfortune of information theory, not the fault of the translator.  I am very sorry about it, but I can't fix anything anymore.
I have already written 500 messages, so some of it is already available in them.
Once again, I would like to wish success to everyone who is interested in.....
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From the notes of the journalist Grigoriev:

"In the tent usually the two sleeping at the two ends do not undress [because it is cold]. And the middle und rest undress. There are no attendants at night. If someone has to be on duty, then the next day he will be tired and everyone will have to fall behind."

Grigoriev seems to be recording the account of Yuri Yarovoy, a journalist present at the searcher, at this point in his notes - see https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-2.

Most likely, this is not Yuri Yarovoy's story, it was told by those who participated in the search when he lived in the tent. At that time, Yarovyi had very little experience of such actions and assessments. Because he did not have enough practice.
What is written by Grigoriev should be understood in this way:
- this fragment concerns only overnight stays in forestless zone. In the forest the practice of duty officers is quite different.
- These two (rather someone alone, for two there is no full work) have to do what needs to be done outside the tent, so that the rest could rest normally. I don't write "sleep" because at that time in such conditions, it was rather passive waiting for the night with rare opportunities to take nap. It is difficult, but sometimes it was done on purpose to get the benefit of traveling along the route.
- Grigoriev couldn't evaluate it the way he should because he didn't have such practice either. He is typical city resident, but it is necessary to assess the travelers who make extreme routes.

I also have not found anything in the primary source documents on the main site attesting to the strength of Dubinina's commitment to Communism, just references on this forum and elsewhere on the web to secondary sources which appear to be quoting people who knew her.

You will not be able find it. Because it is bad myth, created either because people do not understand it at all, or for the purpose of political propaganda. It is necessary know and understand well everything that was related to the youth of that time, so that you can say something truthful.
In the largest number of student youth then in events such as travel, at least something used from politics. They could make jokes about something on this subject (as in their handwritten sheet) or write something about the party's congress on paper in order to let their comrades out of work at the right time. But that was the end of it. They had many other natural hobbies to pursue politics. All this I say because I saw everything in the real life of that time, not because I read somewhere in unreliable source.
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General Discussion / Re: Walking a km in deep snow
« Last post by WAB on Today at 03:11:42 PM »
Let me try answer you in detail (and with specific examples) to these questions.....

I wonder, does anyone have experience with, or has anyone done an experiment on how difficult it is to walk around a km or more in deep snow with only socks on your feet?

There is of course. Here is link to the video of this event: https://youtu.be/FAuxkkISqmI?list=PLQUaBB5B8ds5kQyCbh9oBIHKApv9_CT72     
And then it was done twice - the second time, one day later, at night. I do not give reference to it only because there is almost no visibility. This was unsuccessful attempt get at least something when shooting at night.

This depends on the type of snow, but there is mention in the diaries of snow "being blown by the wind, probably from trees because the sky is blue", and also on the photo where they're setting up the tent, clearly there is snow on their clothes, so I assume the snow was the loose kind...

It was a story about what they saw elsewhere. There are different conditions in different places. You yourself bring a few photos:
1 - https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-1959-search-017.jpg .
2 - https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-1959-search-017.jpg 
3 - https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-1959-search-000.jpg 

They are also made in different places if you go down a slope in the order of numbers: 3 - 1 - 2. I just want remind you that photo #2 was taken at the end of March, when the snow fell already lot.
On the video, where Shura Alexeyenkov walks in socks of snow was also much more than it was in 1959.

Also based on the same photo, it was at least a metre deep around the tent.

Near the tent there was different amount of snow from different sides, but there was hard snow (this is called nast - thin crust of ice over snow) so the depth of snow did not matter. I have to explain that the shots
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Unknown-origin-Dyatlov-photos-11.jpg  are not made in the place where the tent was, these are completely different conditions and snow conditions. This photo does not have exact reference points, both in time and place. According to all conditions, I assume that it was made on January 31, when they went to the top of the pass and unsuccessfully tried to make warehouse there.


When you step into deep, powdery snow, your feet sink into it, so I think it would be almost impossible to walk any considerable distance, this is why people use skis.

I know footprints were found in a part of the assumed route (between the tent and where the bodies were found), but I wonder if it's correct to assume that they walked the whole way..

You think it's right. But here we also need to make explanation: they could walk on parts of the slope without skis and they got to the place where it was possible. They could not go any further. The border of this can be seen on this diagram: https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-ravine-map-Borzenkov_1.png .

If they could go further into the forest, they would stay alive, because they could make a big and good fire. In the place where they were found, there was no proper amount and condition of firewood.
The traces they had were not very small. Above their beginning, there were no conditions for their formation, but below their end, the tracks were covered with snow that blew out from above and they could not be seen.
They went all the way and there is no need doubt it, because the teleportation had not yet been invented even now.  grin1

--------------------------

You can see for yourself the same conditions somewhere in the north of your country, for example in Lappi -  very good example is the Inari community. I know this because it borders on our Murmansk region, where I have been many times. The conditions are the same there. The difference with the Northern Urals will be such that the whole difference in snow conditions will be much shorter and faster.
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Igor said it (last entry of the group diary) - "We are having dinner right in the tent. It's warm. It is hard to imagine such a comfort somewhere on the ridge, with a piercing howl of the wind, hundreds kilometers away from human settlements."



But that is from a different day. And right before that he wrote "We started fire with logs, too tired to dig a fire pit. We are having dinner right in the tent."

I can't decipher what he meant... but this doesn't say anything about the night of the incident or not using the stove.
Yes it's from the evening before - Jan 31st. They had been unable to get through the pass (probably because they were poorly equipped to be above the treeline) and fell back tired to setup camp and lighten their backpacks with the labaz. Igor seems to be indicating that the plan has changed, instead of camping in the forest they're going to the ridge (and it wont be warm.....).

My theory is that they set off late @ 3pm because they had a lie in because they didn't expect to get a lot of sleep up there and then break camp at first light.
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Igor said it (last entry of the group diary) - "We are having dinner right in the tent. It's warm. It is hard to imagine such a comfort somewhere on the ridge, with a piercing howl of the wind, hundreds kilometers away from human settlements."
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But that is from a different day. And right before that he wrote "We started fire with logs, too tired to dig a fire pit. We are having dinner right in the tent."

I can't decipher what he meant... but this doesn't say anything about the night of the incident or not using the stove.
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Agreed no need to overcook the loin issue.  lol4


Igor said it (last entry of the group diary) - "We are having dinner right in the tent. It's warm. It is hard to imagine such a comfort somewhere on the ridge, with a piercing howl of the wind, hundreds kilometers away from human settlements."
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Proximity to the body, could work but in that case it would wet the person's clothes, as it would give off some water as the meat warms up, and also would collect condensation while still cold.

But probably the loin has no relevance.

The "no stove tonigh" scenario still seems unbelievable to me.
Indeed there's no room for it in the low mode of the tent.

From what I can find, the temperatures that night are not survivable until the morning motionless (asleep). Whether they knew this or not is another question.

But do we know somehow that they didn't intend to use the stove?
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General Discussion / Re: Walking a km in deep snow
« Last post by Nigel Evans on Today at 10:19:30 AM »
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