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Author Topic: Nitrogen dioxide slowly converts to Nitric acid on contact  (Read 43527 times)

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January 26, 2019, 11:54:02 AM
Reply #210
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sarapuk

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It is a standing wave of ionised air with the antinodes generating hot NO2 (black stripes) and as this heavier than air gas drifts down it cools and becomes orange. Think of an electric bar fire hanging in the air powered by the wind.

Ok. Need more information. What do you mean by a standing wave of ionised air?

I get that air molecules can be ionised and carry an electrical charge and then when they move they can create a magnetic field but how does this create a standing wave and generate nitrogen dioxide?
The standing wave is in the air - http://www.physicscentral.com/explore/pictures/cloudwaves.cfm


https://www.explainthatstuff.com/antennas.html look at the section - How antennas work
"As the electrons (tiny particles inside atoms) in the electric current wiggle back and forth along the antenna, they create invisible electromagnetic radiation in the form of radio waves."

So if the air in the standing wave is ionised and then "wiggled" it will generate radio waves. If the wiggling has the right wavelength then you are creating microwaves. Then you're creating nitrogen oxides yes?

You keep going over the same old ground adding bits and pieces which are just confusing an already confusing theory with absolutely no scientific proof that this is what caused the Dyatlov Group to evacuate the Tent etc.

Dont feed the trolls.   Let the thread die a slow agonizing death.


Seems like  its become a ZOMBIE THREAD.
DB
 

January 26, 2019, 12:58:25 PM
Reply #211
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Nigel Evans


 

January 26, 2019, 03:42:44 PM
Reply #212
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
It is a standing wave of ionised air with the antinodes generating hot NO2 (black stripes) and as this heavier than air gas drifts down it cools and becomes orange. Think of an electric bar fire hanging in the air powered by the wind.

Ok. Need more information. What do you mean by a standing wave of ionised air?

I get that air molecules can be ionised and carry an electrical charge and then when they move they can create a magnetic field but how does this create a standing wave and generate nitrogen dioxide?
The standing wave is in the air - http://www.physicscentral.com/explore/pictures/cloudwaves.cfm


https://www.explainthatstuff.com/antennas.html look at the section - How antennas work
"As the electrons (tiny particles inside atoms) in the electric current wiggle back and forth along the antenna, they create invisible electromagnetic radiation in the form of radio waves."

So if the air in the standing wave is ionised and then "wiggled" it will generate radio waves. If the wiggling has the right wavelength then you are creating microwaves. Then you're creating nitrogen oxides yes?

Ok, I see where you are going, but to generate radio waves the charged particles would have to be wiggling at very high frequencies and therefore have a very short wavelength.  The kind of standing wave (air waves) you are talking about don't look like they have very high frequencies?  In a typical radio transmitter that uses modulated inductance and capacitance circuitry they are set up with alternating currents in the region of KHz to MHz.  How would you get such high frequencies In an air standing wave?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave - can be 1 metre wavelength. I'm not religious on it, could be even longer perhaps. "Microwave region"(ish) :)
Another question: do the microwaves (photons) carry enough energy to initiate the chemical reaction between oxygen and nitrogen?  Microwave energy seems a bit low to me.  I would have thought you would need photons bordering the x-ray ultraviolet region?I don't know the theory in detail either i'm just dialing in authoritative statements that it is the case. It's not a reaction but a weak bonding of atoms?

Yes microwaves have a wavelength of about 1 metre, but they travel at the speed of light, which means to create an electromagnetic wave with a wavelength of 1 metre you need to wiggle your electrons at very high frequency:

F = speed of light/wavelength

This gives about 300MHz

These air waves won't be travelling anywhere near the speed of light which means the wavelength of the air waves would have to be much smaller, even if they were moving at sonic speeds of 330m/s  This would mean that even at sonic speeds the air wave would have to have a wavelength of only 1 micron. This would not be credible given the physical properties of air in terms of turbulent wave formation around another object.
There would have to be an intermediate mechanism! Like a natural magnetron?

The ball lightning on the other hand is more credible, but it would not create huge amounts of nitrogen dioxide.The videos and photos i'm posting might prove you wrong?

I'm not sure about the photon energy required.  Microwaves seem a bit low and I certainly don't get a cloud of redish brown acrid smoke when I open the door to my microwave oven.  Are there any credible references to microwaves causing nitrogen oxides to form?https://www.nature.com/articles/srep28263

Natural megatron? No.    I would say that what you really need is high energy UV light sources or x-ray sources.  These could be generated by lightning, also by the sun.  Hence pollution + strong sunlight can generate NO2 as in smog.  A nuclear detonation could also produce a significant amount of nitrogen dioxide as a cloud.  What else could produce a toxic gas cloud of nitrogen dioxide?

What you need for the DPI is a credible source of nitrogen dioxide.  A toxic cloud could have resulted in the events that night.

You know that the deaths can't be explained by hypothermia alone.  Dorishenko's Odema.  When you look at the evidence long enough it's clear that none of them should have died of hypothermia.  The injuries in the ravine don't make sense unless there was something that affected Their physical and mental state.
 

January 27, 2019, 05:46:56 AM
Reply #213
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Nigel Evans



What else could produce a toxic gas cloud of nitrogen dioxide?
Maybe the answer is in those ufo links i'm posting? Or here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatwoods_monster
 

January 27, 2019, 06:28:25 AM
Reply #214
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Nigel Evans


These make my point better :-
http://www.thinkanomalous.com/flatwoods-monster-1952.html   
"Everyone in the group experienced nausea, irritation of the nasal cavity, and severe swelling in the throat after inhaling the odorous mist. Lemon had multiple convulsions and went into violent fits of vomiting almost immediately after returning home. Some of the children could hardly swallow water, and Mrs. May had to take her boys to a doctor. The doctor who treated them claimed that their symptoms were similar to those experienced by victims of mustard gas.".
http://www.theparanormalguide.com/blog/flatwoods-monster
"Many of the group that encountered the entity are said to have suffered from  illnesses all their lives, and it is said that they all were, at some  stage, diagnosed with either throat or lung cancer. Kathleen Mays is  said to have died of throat cancer, with many believing the encounter   to have had a lasting effect on members of the group."
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 06:34:51 AM by Nigel Evans »
 

January 27, 2019, 03:12:01 PM
Reply #215
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
These make my point better :-
http://www.thinkanomalous.com/flatwoods-monster-1952.html   
"Everyone in the group experienced nausea, irritation of the nasal cavity, and severe swelling in the throat after inhaling the odorous mist. Lemon had multiple convulsions and went into violent fits of vomiting almost immediately after returning home. Some of the children could hardly swallow water, and Mrs. May had to take her boys to a doctor. The doctor who treated them claimed that their symptoms were similar to those experienced by victims of mustard gas.".
http://www.theparanormalguide.com/blog/flatwoods-monster
"Many of the group that encountered the entity are said to have suffered from  illnesses all their lives, and it is said that they all were, at some  stage, diagnosed with either throat or lung cancer. Kathleen Mays is  said to have died of throat cancer, with many believing the encounter   to have had a lasting effect on members of the group."

Definitely a very strange report.  But proving that something similar is responsible for DPI would be very difficult.
 

January 27, 2019, 03:46:35 PM
Reply #216
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Nigel Evans


These make my point better :-
http://www.thinkanomalous.com/flatwoods-monster-1952.html   
"Everyone in the group experienced nausea, irritation of the nasal cavity, and severe swelling in the throat after inhaling the odorous mist. Lemon had multiple convulsions and went into violent fits of vomiting almost immediately after returning home. Some of the children could hardly swallow water, and Mrs. May had to take her boys to a doctor. The doctor who treated them claimed that their symptoms were similar to those experienced by victims of mustard gas.".
http://www.theparanormalguide.com/blog/flatwoods-monster
"Many of the group that encountered the entity are said to have suffered from  illnesses all their lives, and it is said that they all were, at some  stage, diagnosed with either throat or lung cancer. Kathleen Mays is  said to have died of throat cancer, with many believing the encounter   to have had a lasting effect on members of the group."

Definitely a very strange report.  But proving that something similar is responsible for DPI would be very difficult.
If i'm right then the phenomena should repeat itself in high winds from the west. So maybe one day...
 

January 27, 2019, 04:24:02 PM
Reply #217
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Nigel Evans


And perhaps the mansi will have smartphones by then...
 

January 27, 2019, 11:42:47 PM
Reply #218
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Star man

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January 29, 2019, 02:08:58 AM
Reply #219
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Nigel Evans


The link below gives solar activity since 1930. Astronomers have been recording sunspot counts for several hundred years and highest ever value is..... 1958! With 1959 being the third strongest ever.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Sunspot-cycles-and-the-occurrence-and-intensity-using-the-Ap-index-of-geomagnetic_fig11_274654201
This translates into very strong geomagnetic storm activity as this image from Fairbanks, Alaska in 1958 demonstrates.
https://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/istp/outreach/images/Aurora/greataur.jpg
This shows the extent of the 1958 aurora display apparently being visible from Mexico.
https://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/istp/outreach/images/Aurora/58map.jpg
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 02:14:35 AM by Nigel Evans »
 


January 30, 2019, 08:37:53 AM
Reply #221
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Star man

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I read that there was supposed to be strange electrical storms in the region of the mountain and reported lights in the sky.  But it is difficult to know if it is of any significance?
 

February 27, 2019, 09:53:20 AM
Reply #222
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Nigel Evans



A good candidate for the no2 theory. UFO in all the right colours, black for hot, orange for cooler.
 

March 08, 2019, 09:17:18 AM
Reply #223
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Nigel Evans


 

March 08, 2019, 01:11:42 PM
Reply #224
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just thought I would pass by and reflect on what this particular Topic is all about.

''So the theory is that the members of the tent suffered strong exposure to NO2. This forced them to cut openings in the tent for ventilation before giving up and cutting open the tent to escape. Then they had no choice but to abandon the tent and head to the forest to seek shelter.''

Well obviously its about GAS. The Theory that a Gas of some kind made the Dyatlov Group abandon their Tent. And then the other events are supposed to have been related to the Gas event at the Tent. Its certainly a Theory worth discussion but I think its got a bit carried away. An awful lot of irrelevance as crept in. The Theory begins to suffer immediately  they leave the Tent, rather than gather outside to attempt to get back for their clothing and equipment, they just walk off a mile to their certain DEATH. That kind of does not make sense.
DB
 

March 09, 2019, 06:02:51 AM
Reply #225
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Nigel Evans


Just thought I would pass by and reflect on what this particular Topic is all about.

''So the theory is that the members of the tent suffered strong exposure to NO2. This forced them to cut openings in the tent for ventilation before giving up and cutting open the tent to escape. Then they had no choice but to abandon the tent and head to the forest to seek shelter.''

Well obviously its about GAS. The Theory that a Gas of some kind made the Dyatlov Group abandon their Tent. And then the other events are supposed to have been related to the Gas event at the Tent. Its certainly a Theory worth discussion but I think its got a bit carried away. An awful lot of irrelevance as crept in. The Theory begins to suffer immediately  they leave the Tent, rather than gather outside to attempt to get back for their clothing and equipment, they just walk off a mile to their certain DEATH. That kind of does not make sense.
Well you are creating a narrative before dismissing it. I'm saying the colour of the hands and faces for SOME of the DP group (and Chivruay) has to be NO2. There are only three possible sources for it wrt the DPI, electro magnetic, rocket fuel and atomic explosion. I like the first one and it seems if he were still with us so would Ivanov. So i'm using this thread to promote the "electro magnetic source theory" by linking to reports of orange/black ufos which i believe are evidence that these objects are more prevalent in the atmosphere than many people realise, it's part of the case i'm making.
Now how this translates to a narrative on abandoning the tent etc i'm not sure. It maybe that NO2 wasn't the primary event but was also present (secondary effect). There seems to be an asymmetry of exposure, Yuri D probably the first to die with foam on his cheek and at the funeral he was significantly darker than Zinaida who was also affected. Igor's face colour was noted in the morgue. For Lyudmila it seems that she had her chin covered throughout and it stayed white. Some of the others like Semyon and Nicolai don't seem to be affected presumably because they were a few hundred metres away photographing the light show on the western ridge (i assert Plane1/Plane2 to be an electro magnetic object similar to the quebec one posted on this thread and possibly the source of the NO2 with the plume traveling downstream over the tent.
For the NO2 plume to be the primary event that drove them out of the tent it would have to be a dense concentration. The narrative could be that Yuri D was outside answering a call of nature when the dense plume hit, he rushed back in through the entrance choking, exposing everyone else to it who then exited through the sides and got away asap. By the time they reach the cedar it is clear that Yuri D is in a bad way and returning is unwise.
Now by this time it is very probable from Ivanov's interview that they have seen and photographed the fire orbs. If these were ball lightning rollers then it is plausible based on historical accounts of similar that the ravine four were crushed in their den under the snow by one rolling down the ravine. It's possible that they had already had a scare earlier (scorched tree tops, Yuri K's leg) and this was the reason for abandoning the fire and seeking shelter in the ravine. They thought it was safer.... The last three realised that their only chance was to get back on their skis and leave the area but the nitric acid in their lungs was taking effect and they couldn't handle the effort of the ascent back to the tent, Zina appears to have been found at the base of the steepest section. The cold did the rest.

 

March 09, 2019, 06:11:09 AM
Reply #226
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Quote
I'm saying the colour of the hands and faces for SOME of the DP group (and Chivruay) has to be NO2.

Except there isn't any evidence of this other then hearsay, and IF any discoloration existed, its easily explained by the process of preparing the body for burial.   thumb1
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

March 09, 2019, 06:18:06 AM
Reply #227
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Nigel Evans


Quote
I'm saying the colour of the hands and faces for SOME of the DP group (and Chivruay) has to be NO2.

Except there isn't any evidence of this other then hearsay, and IF any discoloration existed, its easily explained by the process of preparing the body for burial.   thumb1
From this forum (that you moderate...) It's my understanding that the bodies were found in situ like this?



This photo would seem to be a fit for the above theory, wind (WNW).


 

March 09, 2019, 07:22:41 AM
Reply #228
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Found in what?   Where are you getting this?

Just because I moderate the forum does not mean I'm responsible for all its contents.    whacky1
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

March 09, 2019, 07:36:41 AM
Reply #229
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Nigel Evans


Found in what?   Where are you getting this?

Just because I moderate the forum does not mean I'm responsible for all its contents.    whacky1

You're telling me that you haven't read the discussion on Chivruay? Rolls eyes...

http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=204.0
Reply #8 posted by WAB.
It's all there. The map, the photo, the resultant yellow/orange skin. Looks like NO2 with the cold finishing them off to me.
 

March 09, 2019, 07:46:45 AM
Reply #230
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Let me get this straight...    now you are attributing things from a completely different case to the DP incident?   

Interesting
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

March 09, 2019, 07:54:17 AM
Reply #231
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Nigel Evans


Let me get this straight...    now you are attributing things from a completely different case to the DP incident?   

Interesting

I'm arguing that Chivruay incident supports the case for NO2 better than the DPI... But together they nail it down.


You should read more of this forum. Some interesting stuff he said modestly....

 

March 09, 2019, 08:11:58 AM
Reply #232
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
I simply do not have the time to read everything posted, especially if its a post within a thread not actually based on the DP incident.  I read the OP don't get me wrong, but its simply not at the top of my list to return to.

However, what does it matter?

The fact will still remain that you seem to have a never ending appetite to use 'unknowns' as facts, then use those false facts to support or invent other false facts.  You start to lose people in your theory the more you do this. 

Don't eat the yellow snow. 
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

March 09, 2019, 09:47:28 AM
Reply #233
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Nigel Evans


I simply do not have the time to read everything posted, especially if its a post within a thread not actually based on the DP incident.  I read the OP don't get me wrong, but its simply not at the top of my list to return to.

However, what does it matter?

The fact will still remain that you seem to have a never ending appetite to use 'unknowns' as facts, then use those false facts to support or invent other false facts.  You start to lose people in your theory the more you do this. 

Don't eat the yellow snow.
Known Facts - (1) sources and effects of NO2 including electro magnetism. (2) Ivanov's support for fire orbs.

If you're enveloped by an orange brown mist that smells like vinegar, don't breathe.
 

March 09, 2019, 01:07:03 PM
Reply #234
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just thought I would pass by and reflect on what this particular Topic is all about.

''So the theory is that the members of the tent suffered strong exposure to NO2. This forced them to cut openings in the tent for ventilation before giving up and cutting open the tent to escape. Then they had no choice but to abandon the tent and head to the forest to seek shelter.''

Well obviously its about GAS. The Theory that a Gas of some kind made the Dyatlov Group abandon their Tent. And then the other events are supposed to have been related to the Gas event at the Tent. Its certainly a Theory worth discussion but I think its got a bit carried away. An awful lot of irrelevance as crept in. The Theory begins to suffer immediately  they leave the Tent, rather than gather outside to attempt to get back for their clothing and equipment, they just walk off a mile to their certain DEATH. That kind of does not make sense.
Well you are creating a narrative before dismissing it. I'm saying the colour of the hands and faces for SOME of the DP group (and Chivruay) has to be NO2. There are only three possible sources for it wrt the DPI, electro magnetic, rocket fuel and atomic explosion. I like the first one and it seems if he were still with us so would Ivanov. So i'm using this thread to promote the "electro magnetic source theory" by linking to reports of orange/black ufos which i believe are evidence that these objects are more prevalent in the atmosphere than many people realise, it's part of the case i'm making.
Now how this translates to a narrative on abandoning the tent etc i'm not sure. It maybe that NO2 wasn't the primary event but was also present (secondary effect). There seems to be an asymmetry of exposure, Yuri D probably the first to die with foam on his cheek and at the funeral he was significantly darker than Zinaida who was also affected. Igor's face colour was noted in the morgue. For Lyudmila it seems that she had her chin covered throughout and it stayed white. Some of the others like Semyon and Nicolai don't seem to be affected presumably because they were a few hundred metres away photographing the light show on the western ridge (i assert Plane1/Plane2 to be an electro magnetic object similar to the quebec one posted on this thread and possibly the source of the NO2 with the plume traveling downstream over the tent.
For the NO2 plume to be the primary event that drove them out of the tent it would have to be a dense concentration. The narrative could be that Yuri D was outside answering a call of nature when the dense plume hit, he rushed back in through the entrance choking, exposing everyone else to it who then exited through the sides and got away asap. By the time they reach the cedar it is clear that Yuri D is in a bad way and returning is unwise.
Now by this time it is very probable from Ivanov's interview that they have seen and photographed the fire orbs. If these were ball lightning rollers then it is plausible based on historical accounts of similar that the ravine four were crushed in their den under the snow by one rolling down the ravine. It's possible that they had already had a scare earlier (scorched tree tops, Yuri K's leg) and this was the reason for abandoning the fire and seeking shelter in the ravine. They thought it was safer.... The last three realised that their only chance was to get back on their skis and leave the area but the nitric acid in their lungs was taking effect and they couldn't handle the effort of the ascent back to the tent, Zina appears to have been found at the base of the steepest section. The cold did the rest.

Well you are ignoring the fact that they never went back into the tent to get their SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, ie clothes etc. They couldnt have been that affected by any GAS if they were capable of walking a mile to the Trees and then doing other actions, can they.
DB
 

March 09, 2019, 01:40:19 PM
Reply #235
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Also there is much mention of the orange color of skin, caused only by NO2. Well what about something a bit more simple and easy to understand. The orange color of skin could be caused by BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA.
DB
 

March 10, 2019, 12:42:07 AM
Reply #236
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Nigel Evans



Well you are ignoring the fact that they never went back into the tent to get their SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, ie clothes etc. They couldnt have been that affected by any GAS if they were capable of walking a mile to the Trees and then doing other actions, can they.
Yes they can, NO2 is dangerous because it converts to nitric acid but it does so slowly.... So there's a delayed reaction. Yuri D walked down the hill and then died by the fire and it all fits with NO2.
 

March 11, 2019, 12:09:13 PM
Reply #237
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Well you are ignoring the fact that they never went back into the tent to get their SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, ie clothes etc. They couldnt have been that affected by any GAS if they were capable of walking a mile to the Trees and then doing other actions, can they.
Yes they can, NO2 is dangerous because it converts to nitric acid but it does so slowly.... So there's a delayed reaction. Yuri D walked down the hill and then died by the fire and it all fits with NO2.


So if it was that slow then all of the Dyatlov Group had time to gather their clothing and equipment for survival.
And I suggest that it is much more likely that BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA caused the orange color than NO2 poisoning.
DB
 

March 11, 2019, 12:59:03 PM
Reply #238
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Nigel Evans



Well you are ignoring the fact that they never went back into the tent to get their SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, ie clothes etc. They couldnt have been that affected by any GAS if they were capable of walking a mile to the Trees and then doing other actions, can they.
Yes they can, NO2 is dangerous because it converts to nitric acid but it does so slowly.... So there's a delayed reaction. Yuri D walked down the hill and then died by the fire and it all fits with NO2.


So if it was that slow then all of the Dyatlov Group had time to gather their clothing and equipment for survival.
And I suggest that it is much more likely that BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA caused the orange color than NO2 poisoning.


Blunt force trauma that didn't exist at their autopsies?
 

March 12, 2019, 04:49:15 AM
Reply #239
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Show me where the autopsy reports state 'orange skin', and I'll be all about it.  Otherwise, its a farce. 
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!