January 24, 2022, 02:51:57 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: What if: fire and the den  (Read 19017 times)

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October 23, 2019, 12:31:40 PM
Reply #30
Offline

WAB


Dear Spygirl: Yes, perhaps they had 3 years to cover it up. There is no discussion of activity in the area after the disaster. The area was blocked off. Even if it were only civilians blocked out of the area, the path to the pass has to run through 2 small towns and the people who resided there made no mention of military crews going up there. I may be wrong, but if there was any clean up by military it had to have been done when it happened. Did you read the Buryatia Dyatlov pass incident?
==================================


Respectfully, I'm not sure of the point. It appears the leader of this hiking group believed a little too much in her own abilities.

No, it is not correct.
As far as I know, there all the matter is that was wrong combination natural stimulators and food allowance. Especially it is aggravated that in the early nineties there were many deliveries of food with poor quality and without due control of these qualities from medical control. Then in our country had heavy economic situation and decline of control over these directions. + In that group there was priority of use natural (vegetative) stimulators of vital processes at physical activities.

In contrast,  by all accounts Igor was an excellent leader & hiker. It appears he & the others prepared extremely well for the excursion, even including a stove.

It was usual and traditional preparation for such travel among groups of students. So almost all groups seriously engaged to sports travel in all USSR have been prepared. Dyatlov group has got to unique environment and could not survive because the reasons were stronger, than possibilities of the human in general. Any other group in those conditions could not survive as.

The main difference is the Buryatia groups' injuries could easily be accounted for. Unlike the Dyatlov 9, there is no crushed ribs or skull fractures.

It is not unique difference. It is different conditions of the nature, a different season (winter or summer), different level of preparation. At last, it is different death causes.
 

October 23, 2019, 01:15:49 PM
Reply #31
Offline

Spygirl 1


Greetings-

Dear Spygirl 1 I welcome you too!
Unfortunately, I did not write for a long time here and anywhere more, therefore I answer only one you message.
As I have lot information on these questions from “the first sources”, I will try answer for your questions.

Haven't quite figured out how to post here. I meant the following to be a reply to Gypsy's post. Maybe someone will give me guidance here.

Certainly, I am not be the moderator in this forum, but I think that all questions should be structured strictly to themes. How much I have understood speech here goes about interpretation of the information about Dyatlov group and similar cases in the Russian television shows.
I should declare that it is not necessary trust to this shows, as to sources serious and trustworthy information. I think that it concerns not only the Russian mass-media. It is the practice extended in the world when mass-media start to focus attention on small details which are not of great importance. The facts and the information which can destroy nonexistent sensation are simultaneously ignored or are specially suppressed, but are truth.

So, Gypsy, about your last post: I would like to direct you to Russian criminologist Anton Larkin.

This past February he was featured on the Russian television program called "Perebal Dyatlov".

He is of the same opinion of Criminologist  Eduardo Tumerov.

I saw this show in source language (it is my native language) and have not found there what that of the basic thoughts concerning the happened. Besides, I am personally also well familiar with Edward Tumanov. However it is not necessary name he on the Latin American dialect.   He, of course, will not take offence, but will smile about it.  grin1
By the way, he is not the criminologist, and he is the doctor-coroner.  grin1
Unfortunately, Edward Tumanov though is the good expert, but he has not practice in studying about bodies which are analogue of that, and it was in all cases which are discussed:
1.The Case from Igor Dyatlov group to Northern Ural Mountains,
2.The Case from Ludmila Korovina group in Hamar-Daban Mountains, nearby Baikal lakes,
3.The Case with students group from Kuibyshev (Samara) city in Kola peninsula.
His explanations this traumas are based on practice as city coroner, therefore do not consider specificity of extreme conditions of winter travel. Unfortunately regular medical researches similar to the specified cases, are not present failures. It occurs that they are very separated on time and district arrangement. And it is because they were spent by different doctors. Therefore this information could not be saved up and systematised as the scientific context. Unfortunately the medicine, it not mathematics and not physics, therefore there all is defined only by analogy to other cases and if they are not familiar to the expert, it means can be mistaken in estimations. As it is occurs, if it is required in mass-media for entertainment events.

As far as an expert I do consider myself as one due to 28 years as a US Federal Agent. My entire career was in forensics. I worked at a private forensics firm 5 years after that.

It is very well, however it were required estimations only on the basis of absolutely authentic and unequivocal information there where you worked. I hope, what I am not mistaken in this statement? Therefore I assure you that the information from mass-media about these cases is not absolutely authentic. I know it on the basis of that well I know all these cases, and in case #3, I am is the only thing (for this time) the expert from those who knew all from the beginning to the end, and I is still the live expert now.

Several have stated on this forum they're not so hip about Turmerov. I have studied Tumerov by his body language. My conclusion is he is sincere but very frustrated by no real investigation so he comes across as terse.

Yes, I with you in it agree, as I to he know, as personally.

I find these two criminologists along with Yuri Kuntsevich, Chairman Dyatlov Pass by far the most credible of all involved.

In this statement I do not agree with you, almost completely. I know Yury Kuntsevich very much for long time and much better than Edward Tumanov, but I know as that Yury Kuntsevich though is the good organizer of studying of case Dyatlov group, but he speaks much in not that party, concerning the reasons of this case. It occurs because at it insufficient formation and abstract preparation in technical (especially military and connected with it) field, and mass-media demand the comment which have sensation. Unfortunately he often agrees on it. Though many experts who in course of this case, with it do not agree completely for him. But here it is necessary consider each case such the comment separately and carefully.
It is necessary notice that it has brought very big advantage that has created “the Font of memory Dyatlov group” and regularly is engaged in that supports memory of this group. These are two different parties in approach to true understanding of that has occurred to Dyatlov group.
 
Because of my career I survived one of the deadliest terrorist bombings ever known to man. I can promise you the injuries to these promising 9 young people is very much what might be expected from an explosion or by blunt force trauma.

In this statement I with you do not agree completely as. And I am professionally was engaged in such division of science, as biomechanics of shock influences to body human. Simultaneously I have experience of supervision of fighting traumas, including from explosions of different origin: fragmental, demolition, volume explosion. It was be in real fighting conditions.
All traumas of Dyatlov group have as shock origin, that is from blow about different subjects of environment. These traumas concern 3 groups (at 4 persons). Other participants of Dyatlov group no have what that of serious traumas. That all coroner has described as is small damages, characteristic for stay of these people in environment, including in extreme conditions. Besides, part of these traumas have a posthumous origin. It was me discuss with different doctors, including Edward Tumanov. He has agreed with some my statements.

If the current autopsies are to be believed, all documented findings would be compatible with blast injuries.

No comment… nea1

Many do not realize what happens mentally to someone close to an big explosion. The body goes into rhabdomyolysis which causes SEVERE CONFUSION.

I've had experience with this evil malady. The confusion is such you don't even know your name or which way to safety. Could definitely be the case here.

I'm not certain I believe that an explosion in & of itself can explain everything. Just putting it forward.

It so confirm it is your right. However here it is necessary to consider many details, including what are called "small". If it analysed and these details “the explosion theory” does not turn out in any way in reality …

My current overall thoughts of this case: it will never be solved on that mountain. Rather only by exhumations which two weeks ago Igor's sister, Tatyana called for.

I am in course of these events, however I do not consider it deserving the necessary attention. As far as I know, this requirement is based on belief of the lawyer operating now and correspondents of the newspaper which write to theme about “ case Dyatlov group”.
As I think, this action is absolutely useless, because, those who it offers do not know precisely that they want have result of it though everyone holds the personal thoughts. But these thoughts are not directed advancement to true, and have only personal intentions and interests.
That was at exhumation of a body Simeon Zolotaryov in April, 12, 2019. And that are proves to true It.
The newspaper has written about it many articles. There were many different conversations, DNA examination has given 3 different results (because wrong methods of comparison have originally been chosen), there get were many new questions (and very not clear and indistinct on sense) …
As result there was nothing new or necessary for advancement to true. If there will be new exhumation all these ambiguities should be increased on “N”. What is it will be possible have in this case?
As is in Christian custom it is better touch not body deceased what disturb not their soul. Though I am not is religious believing person, but I consider necessary with respect to concern national traditions of those places where all it has occurred.

I have contacted this site's moderator to see if permissible to post the two videos I have referred to.

Even if it will not resolve here, I with the big curiosity would read everything that you write about it.
It is possible send it to the my e-mail (in the personal message I will send the address). In advance I thank you for it. I promise not place any comments in forums or other publications, without your consent to it.
Thank you for your message write.

WOW!! Although I haven't digested all your comments I'm excited that you have responded!! Like  you it took me quite a while to post on this forum.

I am finding the language translation is sometimes difficult.

So, thank you & I look forward to thoroughly examining all your comments.

Best--
Spygirl 1
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 03:31:26 PM by Spygirl 1 »
 

October 23, 2019, 02:36:36 PM
Reply #32

tekumze

Guest
Dear WAB welcome back again,
 I want no be erroneous, but it seems to me that what you write, is a syndrome of the person which has decided that he knows all better then others (Where did we hear that already ?). No offense.
In fact, I just started this topic for a single reason. I anticipated the development of the debate and knew that you would feel called to redirect the course of the debate. It amazes me that you waited so long.
As you are avoiding answering my direct question so far, I will ask again: "After all these years of dealing with the tragedy of the Dyatlov Group and in all your (better than others) knowledge of events, would you please trust us your view (maybe theory) what is the reason which was lead to the death of all Dyatlov members?
By the way: Has your friend Victor Popovnin's very high level (international) expert already managed to compile his report? It was said that it would be in August. And because you know everyone could you tell us if the Office of Public Prosecutor already interprets its conclusion?
Best regards  thanky1
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 02:42:13 PM by tekumze »
 

October 23, 2019, 03:54:06 PM
Reply #33
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I am not an expert on explosions and their effects on the human body and neither do I seek to be one, but I will open my ears and my mind to those who are more expert in this area.

What I will say applying my less expert judgement is that there is something I find difficult with an explosion resulting in the traumas we see in the Dyatlov group.

1.  If there was a very large explosion that occurred at a distance, but with a significant shock wave over pressure that could cause the traumas, then I would expect most of the Dyatlov group to have received similar traumas rather than just the rav 4.

2.  If an explosion was more localised to the rav 4 e.g. A grenade or mine then I would expect it to have been closer to them and result in some of the following - shrapnel wounds, secondary injuries from being thrown by the explosions, burns to exposed skin and clothing.  Even small pieces.specks of debris sticking into exposed skin?

4.  If an explosion had happened at the tent then I doubt Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo would have been able to walk down the slope.  It's possible that explosions may have scared them into leaving the tent, but I don't think the evidence points at this.  Something else scared them and forced them from the tent.  I suspect that whatever that was may also have been the cause of the traumas later on.

So I agree that the injuries are similar to blast traumas (I am not an expert though) but are far more likely to be blunt force trauma, given all the other information that is available. Saying that I don't know what information if any was omitted from the autopsy reports.

Regards

Star man
 

October 23, 2019, 07:45:46 PM
Reply #34
Offline

Spygirl 1


Greetings-

Dear Spygirl 1 I welcome you too!
Unfortunately, I did not write for a long time here and anywhere more, therefore I answer only one you message.
As I have lot information on these questions from “the first sources”, I will try answer for your questions.

Haven't quite figured out how to post here. I meant the following to be a reply to Gypsy's post. Maybe someone will give me guidance here.

Certainly, I am not be the moderator in this forum, but I think that all questions should be structured strictly to themes. How much I have understood speech here goes about interpretation of the information about Dyatlov group and similar cases in the Russian television shows.
I should declare that it is not necessary trust to this shows, as to sources serious and trustworthy information. I think that it concerns not only the Russian mass-media. It is the practice extended in the world when mass-media start to focus attention on small details which are not of great importance. The facts and the information which can destroy nonexistent sensation are simultaneously ignored or are specially suppressed, but are truth.

So, Gypsy, about your last post: I would like to direct you to Russian criminologist Anton Larkin.

This past February he was featured on the Russian television program called "Perebal Dyatlov".

He is of the same opinion of Criminologist  Eduardo Tumerov.

I saw this show in source language (it is my native language) and have not found there what that of the basic thoughts concerning the happened. Besides, I am personally also well familiar with Edward Tumanov. However it is not necessary name he on the Latin American dialect.   He, of course, will not take offence, but will smile about it.  grin1
By the way, he is not the criminologist, and he is the doctor-coroner.  grin1
Unfortunately, Edward Tumanov though is the good expert, but he has not practice in studying about bodies which are analogue of that, and it was in all cases which are discussed:
1.The Case from Igor Dyatlov group to Northern Ural Mountains,
2.The Case from Ludmila Korovina group in Hamar-Daban Mountains, nearby Baikal lakes,
3.The Case with students group from Kuibyshev (Samara) city in Kola peninsula.
His explanations this traumas are based on practice as city coroner, therefore do not consider specificity of extreme conditions of winter travel. Unfortunately regular medical researches similar to the specified cases, are not present failures. It occurs that they are very separated on time and district arrangement. And it is because they were spent by different doctors. Therefore this information could not be saved up and systematised as the scientific context. Unfortunately the medicine, it not mathematics and not physics, therefore there all is defined only by analogy to other cases and if they are not familiar to the expert, it means can be mistaken in estimations. As it is occurs, if it is required in mass-media for entertainment events.

As far as an expert I do consider myself as one due to 28 years as a US Federal Agent. My entire career was in forensics. I worked at a private forensics firm 5 years after that.

It is very well, however it were required estimations only on the basis of absolutely authentic and unequivocal information there where you worked. I hope, what I am not mistaken in this statement? Therefore I assure you that the information from mass-media about these cases is not absolutely authentic. I know it on the basis of that well I know all these cases, and in case #3, I am is the only thing (for this time) the expert from those who knew all from the beginning to the end, and I is still the live expert now.

Several have stated on this forum they're not so hip about Turmerov. I have studied Tumerov by his body language. My conclusion is he is sincere but very frustrated by no real investigation so he comes across as terse.

Yes, I with you in it agree, as I to he know, as personally.

I find these two criminologists along with Yuri Kuntsevich, Chairman Dyatlov Pass by far the most credible of all involved.

In this statement I do not agree with you, almost completely. I know Yury Kuntsevich very much for long time and much better than Edward Tumanov, but I know as that Yury Kuntsevich though is the good organizer of studying of case Dyatlov group, but he speaks much in not that party, concerning the reasons of this case. It occurs because at it insufficient formation and abstract preparation in technical (especially military and connected with it) field, and mass-media demand the comment which have sensation. Unfortunately he often agrees on it. Though many experts who in course of this case, with it do not agree completely for him. But here it is necessary consider each case such the comment separately and carefully.
It is necessary notice that it has brought very big advantage that has created “the Font of memory Dyatlov group” and regularly is engaged in that supports memory of this group. These are two different parties in approach to true understanding of that has occurred to Dyatlov group.
 
Because of my career I survived one of the deadliest terrorist bombings ever known to man. I can promise you the injuries to these promising 9 young people is very much what might be expected from an explosion or by blunt force trauma.

In this statement I with you do not agree completely as. And I am professionally was engaged in such division of science, as biomechanics of shock influences to body human. Simultaneously I have experience of supervision of fighting traumas, including from explosions of different origin: fragmental, demolition, volume explosion. It was be in real fighting conditions.
All traumas of Dyatlov group have as shock origin, that is from blow about different subjects of environment. These traumas concern 3 groups (at 4 persons). Other participants of Dyatlov group no have what that of serious traumas. That all coroner has described as is small damages, characteristic for stay of these people in environment, including in extreme conditions. Besides, part of these traumas have a posthumous origin. It was me discuss with different doctors, including Edward Tumanov. He has agreed with some my statements.

If the current autopsies are to be believed, all documented findings would be compatible with blast injuries.

No comment… nea1

Many do not realize what happens mentally to someone close to an big explosion. The body goes into rhabdomyolysis which causes SEVERE CONFUSION.

I've had experience with this evil malady. The confusion is such you don't even know your name or which way to safety. Could definitely be the case here.

I'm not certain I believe that an explosion in & of itself can explain everything. Just putting it forward.

It so confirm it is your right. However here it is necessary to consider many details, including what are called "small". If it analysed and these details “the explosion theory” does not turn out in any way in reality …

My current overall thoughts of this case: it will never be solved on that mountain. Rather only by exhumations which two weeks ago Igor's sister, Tatyana called for.

I am in course of these events, however I do not consider it deserving the necessary attention. As far as I know, this requirement is based on belief of the lawyer operating now and correspondents of the newspaper which write to theme about “ case Dyatlov group”.
As I think, this action is absolutely useless, because, those who it offers do not know precisely that they want have result of it though everyone holds the personal thoughts. But these thoughts are not directed advancement to true, and have only personal intentions and interests.
That was at exhumation of a body Simeon Zolotaryov in April, 12, 2019. And that are proves to true It.
The newspaper has written about it many articles. There were many different conversations, DNA examination has given 3 different results (because wrong methods of comparison have originally been chosen), there get were many new questions (and very not clear and indistinct on sense) …
As result there was nothing new or necessary for advancement to true. If there will be new exhumation all these ambiguities should be increased on “N”. What is it will be possible have in this case?
As is in Christian custom it is better touch not body deceased what disturb not their soul. Though I am not is religious believing person, but I consider necessary with respect to concern national traditions of those places where all it has occurred.

I have contacted this site's moderator to see if permissible to post the two videos I have referred to.

Even if it will not resolve here, I with the big curiosity would read everything that you write about it.
It is possible send it to the my e-mail (in the personal message I will send the address). In advance I thank you for it. I promise not place any comments in forums or other publications, without your consent to it.
Thank you for your message write.

WOW!! Although I haven't digested all your comments I'm excited that you have responded!! Like  you it took me quite a while to post on this forum.

I am finding the language translation is sometimes difficult.

So, thank you & I look forward to thoroughly examining all your comments.

Best--
Spygirl 1

Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!

What are you doing, WAB-- starting a Cold War with me?

You keep talking about facts. What appears  to be a fact your use of a jaundiced eye that discounts every single comment I've posted.

I have 30 years of field experience. I have worked on some of the largest cases in recent US history.  We worked closely with coroners, medical examiner's, police departments, etc. There was always a great respect between different personnel/ agencies involved who all played a positive role in determining each case. However, in the end it was usually those in my position
who developed conclusive forensic evidence.

You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.

Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!

You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.

You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension.  The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.

I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.

Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel?  I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.

SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing)  "since you are the expert tell us what happened!" So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.

Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.

& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.

I apologize to all for my terseness.

Best --
Spygirl 1

« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 08:05:15 PM by Spygirl 1 »
 

October 23, 2019, 09:06:00 PM
Reply #35
Offline

Spygirl 1


Greetings-

Dear Spygirl 1 I welcome you too!
Unfortunately, I did not write for a long time here and anywhere more, therefore I answer only one you message.
As I have lot information on these questions from “the first sources”, I will try answer for your questions.

Haven't quite figured out how to post here. I meant the following to be a reply to Gypsy's post. Maybe someone will give me guidance here.

Certainly, I am not be the moderator in this forum, but I think that all questions should be structured strictly to themes. How much I have understood speech here goes about interpretation of the information about Dyatlov group and similar cases in the Russian television shows.
I should declare that it is not necessary trust to this shows, as to sources serious and trustworthy information. I think that it concerns not only the Russian mass-media. It is the practice extended in the world when mass-media start to focus attention on small details which are not of great importance. The facts and the information which can destroy nonexistent sensation are simultaneously ignored or are specially suppressed, but are truth.

So, Gypsy, about your last post: I would like to direct you to Russian criminologist Anton Larkin.

This past February he was featured on the Russian television program called "Perebal Dyatlov".

He is of the same opinion of Criminologist  Eduardo Tumerov.

I saw this show in source language (it is my native language) and have not found there what that of the basic thoughts concerning the happened. Besides, I am personally also well familiar with Edward Tumanov. However it is not necessary name he on the Latin American dialect.   He, of course, will not take offence, but will smile about it.  grin1
By the way, he is not the criminologist, and he is the doctor-coroner.  grin1
Unfortunately, Edward Tumanov though is the good expert, but he has not practice in studying about bodies which are analogue of that, and it was in all cases which are discussed:
1.The Case from Igor Dyatlov group to Northern Ural Mountains,
2.The Case from Ludmila Korovina group in Hamar-Daban Mountains, nearby Baikal lakes,
3.The Case with students group from Kuibyshev (Samara) city in Kola peninsula.
His explanations this traumas are based on practice as city coroner, therefore do not consider specificity of extreme conditions of winter travel. Unfortunately regular medical researches similar to the specified cases, are not present failures. It occurs that they are very separated on time and district arrangement. And it is because they were spent by different doctors. Therefore this information could not be saved up and systematised as the scientific context. Unfortunately the medicine, it not mathematics and not physics, therefore there all is defined only by analogy to other cases and if they are not familiar to the expert, it means can be mistaken in estimations. As it is occurs, if it is required in mass-media for entertainment events.

As far as an expert I do consider myself as one due to 28 years as a US Federal Agent. My entire career was in forensics. I worked at a private forensics firm 5 years after that.

It is very well, however it were required estimations only on the basis of absolutely authentic and unequivocal information there where you worked. I hope, what I am not mistaken in this statement? Therefore I assure you that the information from mass-media about these cases is not absolutely authentic. I know it on the basis of that well I know all these cases, and in case #3, I am is the only thing (for this time) the expert from those who knew all from the beginning to the end, and I is still the live expert now.

Several have stated on this forum they're not so hip about Turmerov. I have studied Tumerov by his body language. My conclusion is he is sincere but very frustrated by no real investigation so he comes across as terse.

Yes, I with you in it agree, as I to he know, as personally.

I find these two criminologists along with Yuri Kuntsevich, Chairman Dyatlov Pass by far the most credible of all involved.

In this statement I do not agree with you, almost completely. I know Yury Kuntsevich very much for long time and much better than Edward Tumanov, but I know as that Yury Kuntsevich though is the good organizer of studying of case Dyatlov group, but he speaks much in not that party, concerning the reasons of this case. It occurs because at it insufficient formation and abstract preparation in technical (especially military and connected with it) field, and mass-media demand the comment which have sensation. Unfortunately he often agrees on it. Though many experts who in course of this case, with it do not agree completely for him. But here it is necessary consider each case such the comment separately and carefully.
It is necessary notice that it has brought very big advantage that has created “the Font of memory Dyatlov group” and regularly is engaged in that supports memory of this group. These are two different parties in approach to true understanding of that has occurred to Dyatlov group.
 
Because of my career I survived one of the deadliest terrorist bombings ever known to man. I can promise you the injuries to these promising 9 young people is very much what might be expected from an explosion or by blunt force trauma.

In this statement I with you do not agree completely as. And I am professionally was engaged in such division of science, as biomechanics of shock influences to body human. Simultaneously I have experience of supervision of fighting traumas, including from explosions of different origin: fragmental, demolition, volume explosion. It was be in real fighting conditions.
All traumas of Dyatlov group have as shock origin, that is from blow about different subjects of environment. These traumas concern 3 groups (at 4 persons). Other participants of Dyatlov group no have what that of serious traumas. That all coroner has described as is small damages, characteristic for stay of these people in environment, including in extreme conditions. Besides, part of these traumas have a posthumous origin. It was me discuss with different doctors, including Edward Tumanov. He has agreed with some my statements.

If the current autopsies are to be believed, all documented findings would be compatible with blast injuries.

No comment… nea1

Many do not realize what happens mentally to someone close to an big explosion. The body goes into rhabdomyolysis which causes SEVERE CONFUSION.

I've had experience with this evil malady. The confusion is such you don't even know your name or which way to safety. Could definitely be the case here.

I'm not certain I believe that an explosion in & of itself can explain everything. Just putting it forward.

It so confirm it is your right. However here it is necessary to consider many details, including what are called "small". If it analysed and these details “the explosion theory” does not turn out in any way in reality …

My current overall thoughts of this case: it will never be solved on that mountain. Rather only by exhumations which two weeks ago Igor's sister, Tatyana called for.

I am in course of these events, however I do not consider it deserving the necessary attention. As far as I know, this requirement is based on belief of the lawyer operating now and correspondents of the newspaper which write to theme about “ case Dyatlov group”.
As I think, this action is absolutely useless, because, those who it offers do not know precisely that they want have result of it though everyone holds the personal thoughts. But these thoughts are not directed advancement to true, and have only personal intentions and interests.
That was at exhumation of a body Simeon Zolotaryov in April, 12, 2019. And that are proves to true It.
The newspaper has written about it many articles. There were many different conversations, DNA examination has given 3 different results (because wrong methods of comparison have originally been chosen), there get were many new questions (and very not clear and indistinct on sense) …
As result there was nothing new or necessary for advancement to true. If there will be new exhumation all these ambiguities should be increased on “N”. What is it will be possible have in this case?
As is in Christian custom it is better touch not body deceased what disturb not their soul. Though I am not is religious believing person, but I consider necessary with respect to concern national traditions of those places where all it has occurred.

I have contacted this site's moderator to see if permissible to post the two videos I have referred to.

Even if it will not resolve here, I with the big curiosity would read everything that you write about it.
It is possible send it to the my e-mail (in the personal message I will send the address). In advance I thank you for it. I promise not place any comments in forums or other publications, without your consent to it.
Thank you for your message write.

WOW!! Although I haven't digested all your comments I'm excited that you have responded!! Like  you it took me quite a while to post on this forum.

I am finding the language translation is sometimes difficult.

So, thank you & I look forward to thoroughly examining all your comments.

Best--
Spygirl 1

Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!!
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 09:52:59 PM by Spygirl 1 »
 

October 24, 2019, 06:19:39 AM
Reply #36

tekumze

Guest
Spygirl 1,Thanks!
With your support I didn't need much to find a black cat in the black room.
And now I also understand what the job of this cat is in this forum. If you know what I mean...declare1
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 08:43:16 AM by tekumze »
 

October 24, 2019, 08:50:43 AM
Reply #37
Offline

Spygirl 1


Greetings-

Dear Spygirl 1 I welcome you too!
Unfortunately, I did not write for a long time here and anywhere more, therefore I answer only one you message.
As I have lot information on these questions from “the first sources”, I will try answer for your questions.

Haven't quite figured out how to post here. I meant the following to be a reply to Gypsy's post. Maybe someone will give me guidance here.

Certainly, I am not be the moderator in this forum, but I think that all questions should be structured strictly to themes. How much I have understood speech here goes about interpretation of the information about Dyatlov group and similar cases in the Russian television shows.
I should declare that it is not necessary trust to this shows, as to sources serious and trustworthy information. I think that it concerns not only the Russian mass-media. It is the practice extended in the world when mass-media start to focus attention on small details which are not of great importance. The facts and the information which can destroy nonexistent sensation are simultaneously ignored or are specially suppressed, but are truth.

So, Gypsy, about your last post: I would like to direct you to Russian criminologist Anton Larkin.

This past February he was featured on the Russian television program called "Perebal Dyatlov".

He is of the same opinion of Criminologist  Eduardo Tumerov.

I saw this show in source language (it is my native language) and have not found there what that of the basic thoughts concerning the happened. Besides, I am personally also well familiar with Edward Tumanov. However it is not necessary name he on the Latin American dialect.   He, of course, will not take offence, but will smile about it.  grin1
By the way, he is not the criminologist, and he is the doctor-coroner.  grin1
Unfortunately, Edward Tumanov though is the good expert, but he has not practice in studying about bodies which are analogue of that, and it was in all cases which are discussed:
1.The Case from Igor Dyatlov group to Northern Ural Mountains,
2.The Case from Ludmila Korovina group in Hamar-Daban Mountains, nearby Baikal lakes,
3.The Case with students group from Kuibyshev (Samara) city in Kola peninsula.
His explanations this traumas are based on practice as city coroner, therefore do not consider specificity of extreme conditions of winter travel. Unfortunately regular medical researches similar to the specified cases, are not present failures. It occurs that they are very separated on time and district arrangement. And it is because they were spent by different doctors. Therefore this information could not be saved up and systematised as the scientific context. Unfortunately the medicine, it not mathematics and not physics, therefore there all is defined only by analogy to other cases and if they are not familiar to the expert, it means can be mistaken in estimations. As it is occurs, if it is required in mass-media for entertainment events.

As far as an expert I do consider myself as one due to 28 years as a US Federal Agent. My entire career was in forensics. I worked at a private forensics firm 5 years after that.

It is very well, however it were required estimations only on the basis of absolutely authentic and unequivocal information there where you worked. I hope, what I am not mistaken in this statement? Therefore I assure you that the information from mass-media about these cases is not absolutely authentic. I know it on the basis of that well I know all these cases, and in case #3, I am is the only thing (for this time) the expert from those who knew all from the beginning to the end, and I is still the live expert now.

Several have stated on this forum they're not so hip about Turmerov. I have studied Tumerov by his body language. My conclusion is he is sincere but very frustrated by no real investigation so he comes across as terse.

Yes, I with you in it agree, as I to he know, as personally.

I find these two criminologists along with Yuri Kuntsevich, Chairman Dyatlov Pass by far the most credible of all involved.

In this statement I do not agree with you, almost completely. I know Yury Kuntsevich very much for long time and much better than Edward Tumanov, but I know as that Yury Kuntsevich though is the good organizer of studying of case Dyatlov group, but he speaks much in not that party, concerning the reasons of this case. It occurs because at it insufficient formation and abstract preparation in technical (especially military and connected with it) field, and mass-media demand the comment which have sensation. Unfortunately he often agrees on it. Though many experts who in course of this case, with it do not agree completely for him. But here it is necessary consider each case such the comment separately and carefully.
It is necessary notice that it has brought very big advantage that has created “the Font of memory Dyatlov group” and regularly is engaged in that supports memory of this group. These are two different parties in approach to true understanding of that has occurred to Dyatlov group.
 
Because of my career I survived one of the deadliest terrorist bombings ever known to man. I can promise you the injuries to these promising 9 young people is very much what might be expected from an explosion or by blunt force trauma.

In this statement I with you do not agree completely as. And I am professionally was engaged in such division of science, as biomechanics of shock influences to body human. Simultaneously I have experience of supervision of fighting traumas, including from explosions of different origin: fragmental, demolition, volume explosion. It was be in real fighting conditions.
All traumas of Dyatlov group have as shock origin, that is from blow about different subjects of environment. These traumas concern 3 groups (at 4 persons). Other participants of Dyatlov group no have what that of serious traumas. That all coroner has described as is small damages, characteristic for stay of these people in environment, including in extreme conditions. Besides, part of these traumas have a posthumous origin. It was me discuss with different doctors, including Edward Tumanov. He has agreed with some my statements.

If the current autopsies are to be believed, all documented findings would be compatible with blast injuries.

No comment… nea1

Many do not realize what happens mentally to someone close to an big explosion. The body goes into rhabdomyolysis which causes SEVERE CONFUSION.

I've had experience with this evil malady. The confusion is such you don't even know your name or which way to safety. Could definitely be the case here.

I'm not certain I believe that an explosion in & of itself can explain everything. Just putting it forward.

It so confirm it is your right. However here it is necessary to consider many details, including what are called "small". If it analysed and these details “the explosion theory” does not turn out in any way in reality …

My current overall thoughts of this case: it will never be solved on that mountain. Rather only by exhumations which two weeks ago Igor's sister, Tatyana called for.

I am in course of these events, however I do not consider it deserving the necessary attention. As far as I know, this requirement is based on belief of the lawyer operating now and correspondents of the newspaper which write to theme about “ case Dyatlov group”.
As I think, this action is absolutely useless, because, those who it offers do not know precisely that they want have result of it though everyone holds the personal thoughts. But these thoughts are not directed advancement to true, and have only personal intentions and interests.
That was at exhumation of a body Simeon Zolotaryov in April, 12, 2019. And that are proves to true It.
The newspaper has written about it many articles. There were many different conversations, DNA examination has given 3 different results (because wrong methods of comparison have originally been chosen), there get were many new questions (and very not clear and indistinct on sense) …
As result there was nothing new or necessary for advancement to true. If there will be new exhumation all these ambiguities should be increased on “N”. What is it will be possible have in this case?
As is in Christian custom it is better touch not body deceased what disturb not their soul. Though I am not is religious believing person, but I consider necessary with respect to concern national traditions of those places where all it has occurred.

I have contacted this site's moderator to see if permissible to post the two videos I have referred to.

Even if it will not resolve here, I with the big curiosity would read everything that you write about it.
It is possible send it to the my e-mail (in the personal message I will send the address). In advance I thank you for it. I promise not place any comments in forums or other publications, without your consent to it.
Thank you for your message write.

WOW!! Although I haven't digested all your comments I'm excited that you have responded!! Like  you it took me quite a while to post on this forum.

I am finding the language translation is sometimes difficult.

So, thank you & I look forward to thoroughly examining all your comments.

Best--
Spygirl 1

Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!

What are you doing, WAB-- starting a new Cold War? I  think I'm in shock.

At first I thought we could possibly put our heads together along with the rest of the forum members to
advance possibilities of what happened to 9 promising young lives. I must be getting soft because that was naive of me.

You keep talking about facts. What appears  to be a fact is your use of a jaundiced eye that discounts every single comment I've posted. Every word I have written was done with pure intent.

I have 30 years of hands-on field experience. I have worked some of the largest cases in recent US/World  history.  It was interesting but not always pleasant. I have seen the worst of humanity. Yes, it is beyond haunting.

We worked closely with coroners, medical examiner's, police departments, & other countries There was always a great respect between different personnel/ agencies/foreign involved who all played a positive role in determining each case. However, in the end it was usually those in my position
who developed conclusive forensic evidence.

You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.

Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!

You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me, my years of service,and my intelligence.

You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension.  The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.

I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.

Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel?  I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.

SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing)  "since you are the expert tell us what happened!" So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.

Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.

& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.

I apologize to all for my terseness.

Best --
Spygirl 1
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 01:41:22 PM by Spygirl 1 »
 

October 24, 2019, 12:58:34 PM
Reply #38
Offline

WAB


Dear WAB welcome back again,

Thanks.

I want no be erroneous, but it seems to me that what you write, is a syndrome of the person which has decided that he knows all better then others (Where did we hear that already ?). No offense.

And you consider so, what sitting at some thousand kilometres and without knowing many details and features (and as realities of those times) it is possible know all better than I? Especially it turns out if to use only the data from "yellow" mass-media (other mass-media about it do not write) and replace the facts with imaginations on excite theme …
No offense.

In fact, I just started this topic for a single reason. I anticipated the development of the debate and knew that you would feel called to redirect the course of the debate. It amazes me that you waited so long.

Well. Next time, when I will be more time, free from the basic business and me will discharge from oncological clinic earlier, I will answer you earlier …

As you are avoiding answering my direct question so far, I will ask again: "After all these years of dealing with the tragedy of the Dyatlov Group and in all your (better than others) knowledge of events, would you please trust us your view (maybe theory) what is the reason which was lead to the death of all Dyatlov members?

Already in some times, I answered similar questions: the Obvious reason - death from overcooling in extreme conditions of environment, at four human complicated by the received traumas. Though at two death could come and earlier, in connection with impossibility of rendering assistance in stationary conditions.

By the way: Has your friend Victor Popovnin's very high level (international) expert already managed to compile his report?

While I with it did not communicate, and the Office of Public Prosecutor has postponed the publication of the conclusion about the spent check (not about new investigation - it is impossible under the law). Meanwhile at me were (and there will be further) other cares.
Why you consider, what I it should do on the first to yours (or whom that still?) to the requirement? This voluntary employment and I to anybody here (and anything) am not obliged. If you an otitis constantly to mill one gossips and hearings, I can not inform here flowing and trustworthy information. You must do lot empty work, all the same will change nothing, and you will deceive itself. It is your choice.

It was said that it would be in August. And because you know everyone could you tell us if the Office of Public Prosecutor already interprets its conclusion?

No. The Office of Public Prosecutor has taken break time in connection with the arisen contradictions in results. It is normal practice. So probably do under the law.
I precisely know that any of the hypotheses taken for check has not found acknowledgement. They also will publish probably such conclusion. And it too is normal. They are not obliged that that do “to public”, their problem is check up that it have ordered and give the conclusion.
In general, it is possible speak much about independence of investigation or other legal actions, and all time press to them from public: give more likely, we would like chew the next sensation. Only it is the stupid policy when achieve not those results that are objective, and what those who demands want to receive.
Maybe worse, if they start leave from the answer. I see that now there is some " armtwisting" on them in the form of kindling of moods against Office of Public Prosecutor in mass-media and on press conferences. It is very strongly prevents come to the real conclusion. Then they can postpone in general the publication of results without day. They have right to it under the law about Office of Public Prosecutor.
I am surprised as to that many people cannot understand in any way that comprehension something needs so much time, how many really it is required, instead of it is so much, how many it would be desirable from people aside.
Public prosecutors not experts in behaviour of a human in extreme situations, therefore lot of time for it is required to them. Also it is not necessary to press on them from its part. Public wants "fried", and it not best way to receive truth about the happened. You will not accept truth substitution to inventions? Or you have decided that there are only 2 concepts: one your own opinion, and all others - wrong.

PS. I at all do not understand that we do in this theme if here conversation has to go only about “That if: fire and den”. I suggest pass to corresponding theme.
 

October 24, 2019, 01:37:19 PM
Reply #39
Offline

WAB



.................................................

Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!

The little girl, when next time to you will suggest pass from younger group to average, it is not necessary agree, it is still very much early. It there does not correspond level of perception of the validity to life realities. Though, it still nobody could cancel megalomania.

What are you doing, WAB-- starting a Cold War with me?

I was not going be at war with anybody (though as the former military man I have rank lieutenant colonel Air Forces and fighting experience). But if to me try offer frank lies, which name the facts, I can answer.

You keep talking about facts. What appears  to be a fact your use of a jaundiced eye that discounts every single comment I've posted.

These comments are equivalent to silly fabrications as they ignore the facts which are replaced with rough imaginations, but have no relation to that that was then actually.

I have 30 years of field experience. I have worked on some of the largest cases in recent US history.  We worked closely with coroners, medical examiner's, police departments, etc. There was always a great respect between different personnel/ agencies involved who all played a positive role in determining each case. However, in the end it was usually those in my position
who developed conclusive forensic evidence.

Physicists have noticed for long time that there is nothing more silly, than the expert in one field of knowledge when it try to argue in other field of knowledge in which it has not got sufficient education or has no sufficient knowledge. It is just such case. Conditionally tell: lying on sofa argue that occurs on other party of the earth, and not have about it the slightest representation.
But if there was desire show that you have such prejudiced and ready on substitution of concepts "experts" it was possible more than well.

You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.

Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!

Well certainly, if not have there is enough knowledge and not understand at all concrete case they and cannot give any representation. Really such low skill level at Federal agents of the USA? Especially against what they neglect reliability of the information and replace the facts with the imaginations about it? Or replace the information from “yellow mass-media”.
It is interesting, why my objections can not contradict inventions if I inform what is actually, and others try protect his unreal imaginations?
And why you written at forum should be more authentic than what is on place and in those real conditions? You, and practically all who writes there, were not (and even no have representation) in difference from me. Or it is such your principle: If the facts contradict for your statements, let will be worse for the facts?


You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.

The intelligence it is shown in not what for replace the facts with imaginations, and in that level of knowledge which the author has. And in ability use this knowledge in concrete case. And it is not present at you in this case. There are only one empty ambitions, exclusively.

You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension.  The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.

You know on the substance of this business even less, but makes very ambitious statements behind which stand only empty and anything besides. You do not have even understanding that stands up for the text autopsy.
Control question:
Describe signs of "explosions" which are found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations for "facts".
In general, what relation has your experience of mass explosions to case in point? Or you again try give out wished for the valid?

I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.

Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel? 

I do not think so, I exactly see (from your comments) that you so all and perceive. If be otherwise you would write absolutely another on sense.

I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.

I have specially allocated fragment which is key in all your errors. As I receive all information on this case from first-hand and I know all this "kitchen" from within, therefore I and write that is actually, instead of in what that vague imaginations through ocean.

SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing)  "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"

You should speak only on its own behalf. Attempt hide for words of others gives out you as the person trying change you`s mind for another's mind.
Judging by that you write, you (and to he, if he so demands) will not have not enough knowledge of physics and realities of that place, what it understand. It is described for long time already at this forum. But it has not been understood even half. You do not notice that half year or one year ago, as well as that I have breaks in writing on 3 … 6 months is written. And you it try give out that I cannot that that to explain. Then remain in your errors and do not stick with requirements which you cannot understand never. Mind and formation for you will not suffice.

So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.

And you are Tatyana's executor?
Ha-ha.
We already talked to it about happened earlier. So it is not necessary be engaged in demagogy here.

Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.

& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.

It is too traditional reception of demagogues, when the holes in own knowledge cover with that demand from others that not condition understand.
It you should moderate the lies that you can know that useful about this case.
We have saying: at some people the impudence is the second happiness. However it is represented to me that at some Spygirl 1, it is not the second, but the first …
 

October 24, 2019, 01:50:42 PM
Reply #40

tekumze

Guest
I completed my research assignment today. The results proved to be above expectations. I thank all the participants in the forum for their cooperation and wish you every success in your private and business life.
And remember: You don't have to believe in things just because you want to believe in them.
Godbye
 

October 24, 2019, 02:27:04 PM
Reply #41
Offline

Spygirl 1


A duplicate post for which I apologize.
Sorry 😳
 
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 07:06:38 AM by Spygirl 1 »
 

October 24, 2019, 02:31:10 PM
Reply #42
Offline

Spygirl 1



.................................................

Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!![/quote]

The little girl, when next time to you will suggest pass from younger group to average, it is not necessary agree, it is still very much early. It there does not correspond level of perception of the validity to life realities. Though, it still nobody could cancel megalomania

I'm not anybody's "little girl" & I think you've got it wrong who is the meglamanic. I will be using the utmost restraint replying to your ridiculous diatribe. 

What are you doing, WAB-- starting a Cold War with me?

I was not going be at war with anybody (though as the former military man I have rank lieutenant colonel Air Forces and fighting experience). But if to me try offer frank lies, which name the facts, I can answer.

Please stop your pissing match.  My spouse outranks you by a mile!

You keep talking about facts. What appears  to be a fact your use of a jaundiced eye that discounts every single comment I've posted.

These comments are equivalent to silly fabrications as they ignore the facts which are replaced with rough imaginations, but have no relation to that that was then actually.

I have no idea what you're talking about!

I have 30 years of field experience. I have worked on some of the largest cases in recent US history.  We worked closely with coroners, medical examiner's, police departments, etc. There was always a great respect between different personnel/ agencies involved who all played a positive role in determining each case. However, in the end it was usually those in my position
who developed conclusive forensic evidence.

Physicists have noticed for long time that there is nothing more silly, than the expert in one field of knowledge when it try to argue in other field of knowledge in which it has not got sufficient education or has no sufficient knowledge. It is just such case. Conditionally tell: lying on sofa argue that occurs on other party of the earth, and not have about it the slightest representation.
But if there was desire show that you have such prejudiced and ready on substitution of concepts "experts" it was possible more than well.

Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved.

You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.

Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!

Well certainly, if not have there is enough knowledge and not understand at all concrete case they and cannot give any representation. Really such low skill level at Federal agents of the USA? Especially against what they neglect reliability of the information and replace the facts with the imaginations about it? Or replace the information from “yellow mass-media”.
It is interesting, why my objections can not contradict inventions if I inform what is actually, and others try protect his unreal imaginations?
And why you written at forum should be more authentic than what is on place and in those real conditions? You, and practically all who writes there, were not (and even no have representation) in difference from me. Or it is such your principle: If the facts contradict for your statements, let will be worse for the facts?

How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position.  Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI.



You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.

The intelligence it is shown in not what for replace the facts with imaginations, and in that level of kno

Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel?  [/quote]

I do not think so, I exactly see (from your comments) that you so all and perceive. If be otherwise you would write absolutely another on sense.

I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.

I have specially allocated fragment which is key in all your errors. As I receive all information on this case from first-hand and I know all this "kitchen" from within, therefore I and write that is actually, instead of in what that vague imaginations through ocean.


SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing)  "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"

You should speak only on its own behalf. Attempt hide for words of others gives out you as the person trying change you`s mind for another's mind.
Judging by that you write, you (and to he, if he so demands) will not have not enough knowledge of physics and realities of that place, what it understand. It is described for long time already at this forum. But it has not been understood even half. You do not notice that half year or one year ago, as well as that I have breaks in writing on 3 … 6 months is written. And you it try give out that I cannot that that to explain. Then remain in your errors and do not stick with requirements which you cannot understand never. Mind and formation for you will not suffice.

So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.

And you are Tatyana's executor?
Ha-ha.
We already talked to it about happened earlier. So it is not necessary be engaged in demagogy here.

The fact you completely ignore I'm sadly a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.

Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.

& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.

It is too traditional reception of demagogues, when the holes in own knowledge cover with that demand from others that not condition understand.
It you should moderate the lies that you can know that useful about this case.
We have saying: at some people the impudence is the second happiness. However it is represented to me that at some Spygirl 1, it is not the second, but the first …
[/quote]

Great!! Another insult! Ya know,  this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
[/quote]
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 10:21:12 AM by Spygirl 1 »
 

October 24, 2019, 03:07:06 PM
Reply #43
Offline

Spygirl 1



.................................................

Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!

The little girl, when next time to you will suggest pass from younger group to average, it is not necessary agree, it is still very much early. It there does not correspond level of perception of the validity to life realities. Though, it still nobody could cancel megalomania

Spygirl: I'm not acquainted with how to show responses in the different colored box ...but I will respond to this rude & aggresious attack.

m not anybody's "little girl". In fact you don't even know I'm female.  I think you've got it wrong who is the meglamanic. I will be using the utmost restraint replying to your ridiculous diatribe. 

What are you doing, WAB-- starting a Cold War with me?

I was not going be at war with anybody (though as the former military man I have rank lieutenant colonel Air Forces and fighting experience). But if to me try offer frank lies, which name the facts, I can answer.

Spygirl: Please stop your pissing match.  My spouse outranks you by a mile!

You keep talking about facts. What appears  to be a fact your use of a jaundiced eye that discounts every single comment I've posted.

These comments are equivalent to silly fabrications as they ignore the facts which are replaced with rough imaginations, but have no relation to that that was then actually.

Spygirl:  have no idea what you're talking about!

I have 30 years of field experience. I have worked on some of the largest cases in recent US history.  We worked closely with coroners, medical examiner's, police departments, etc. There was always a great respect between different personnel/ agencies involved who all played a positive role in determining each case. However, in the end it was usually those in my position
who developed conclusive forensic evidence.

Physicists have noticed for long time that there is nothing more silly, than the expert in one field of knowledge when it try to argue in other field of knowledge in which it has not got sufficient education or has no sufficient knowledge. It is just such case. Conditionally tell: lying on sofa argue that occurs on other party of the earth, and not have about it the slightest representation.
But if there was desire show that you have such prejudiced and ready on substitution of concepts "experts" it was possible more than well.

Spygirl: Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved.

Are you stating a physicist knows more than the most senior-level US Agent has? That is quite laughable😜

You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.

Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!

Well certainly, if not have there is enough knowledge and not understand at all concrete case they and cannot give any representation. Really such low skill level at Federal agents of the USA? Especially against what they neglect reliability of the information and replace the facts with the imaginations about it? Or replace the information from “yellow mass-media”.
It is interesting, why my objections can not contradict inventions if I inform what is actually, and others try protect his unreal imaginations?
And why you written at forum should be more authentic than what is on place and in those real conditions? You, and practically all who writes there, were not (and even no have representation) in difference from me. Or it is such your principle: If the facts contradict for your statements, let will be worse for the facts?

Spygirl: How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position.  Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI.



You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.

The intelligence it is shown in not what for replace the facts with imaginations, and in that level of knowledge which the author has. And in ability use this knowledge in concrete case. And it is not present at you in this case. There are only one empty ambitions, exclusively

Spygirl: I'll  match my I.Q. against yours any day! Is it just a bad day that compells your cheap shots?

You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension.  The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.

You know on the substance of this business even less, but makes very ambitious statements behind which stand only empty and anything besides. You do not have even understanding that stands up for the text autopsy.
Control question:
Describe signs of "explosions" which are found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations for "facts".
In general, what relation has your experience of mass explosions to case in point? Or you again try give out wished for the valid?

Spygirl: Why do you have such strong desires to discount everything not only I but about everyone in this forum?

I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.

Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel? 

I do not think so, I exactly see (from your comments) that you so all and perceive. If be otherwise you would write absolutely another on sense.

I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.

I have specially allocated fragment which is key in all your errors. As I receive all information on this case from first-hand and I know all this "kitchen" from within, therefore I and write that is actually, instead of in what that vague imaginations through ocean.


SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing)  "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"

You should speak only on its own behalf. Attempt hide for words of others gives out you as the person trying change you`s mind for another's mind.
Judging by that you write, you (and to he, if he so demands) will not have not enough knowledge of physics and realities of that place, what it understand. It is described for long time already at this forum. But it has not been understood even half. You do not notice that half year or one year ago, as well as that I have breaks in writing on 3 … 6 months is written. And you it try give out that I cannot that that to explain. Then remain in your errors and do not stick with requirements which you cannot understand never. Mind and formation for you will not suffice.

Spygirl: Ok, Sad WAB, nowhere have I stated I have a great understanding of physics. I have made it clear we worked very closely & with great reverence for all fields of study. Are you staying because you are a physicist you know more than the rest of us?

So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.

And you are Tatyana's executor?
Ha-ha.
We already talked to it about happened earlier. So it is not necessary be engaged in demagogy here.

Spygirl: The fact you completely ignore I'm a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.

Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.

& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.

It is too traditional reception of demagogues, when the holes in own knowledge cover with that demand from others that not condition understand.
It you should moderate the lies that you can know that useful about this case.
We have saying: at some people the impudence is the second happiness. However it is represented to me that at some Spygirl 1, it is not the second, but the first …

Great!! Another insult! Ya know,  this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.

And in your response to Tekumze you state the 9 died of "overcooling". That in no way gives conclusive evidence as to all documented injuries. Now who is the imprudent one ?
 

October 24, 2019, 05:47:05 PM
Reply #44
Offline

gypsy


"Death by overcooling" does not disqualify the violence or homicide as a cause of death. If I lock a person in a freezer or force them outside without proper gear, that is 'technically' hypothermia, but legally and morally that is well performed murder.

The subsequent reaction of the people involved in the investigation strongly alludes to a cover-up as otherwise there would be no need to close the area for public, to confiscate the evidence, to close the case as soon as possible and not to involve relavant experts in the investigation.
 

October 24, 2019, 06:01:30 PM
Reply #45
Offline

Spygirl 1



.................................................

Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!

The little girl, when next time to you will suggest pass from younger group to average, it is not necessary agree, it is still very much early. It there does not correspond level of perception of the validity to life realities. Though, it still nobody

These comments are equivalent to silly fabrications as they ignore the facts

Spygirl: Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved.

Are you stating a physicist knows more than the most senior-level US Agent has? That is quite laughable😜

You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.

Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!

Well certainly, if not have there is enough knowledge and not understand at all concrete case they and cannot give any representation. Really such low skill level at Federal agents of the USA? Especially against what they neglect reliability of the information and replace the facts with the imaginations about it? Or replace the information from “yellow mass-media”.
It is interesting, why my objections can not contradict inventions if I inform what is actually, and others try protect his unreal imaginations?
And why you written at forum should be more authentic than what is on place and in those real conditions? You, and practically all who writes there, were not (and even no have representation) in difference from me. Or it is such your principle: If the facts contradict for your statements, let will be worse for the facts?

Spygirl: How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position.  Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI.



You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.

The intelligence it is shown in not what for replace the facts with imaginations, and in that level of knowledge which the author has. And in ability use this knowledge in concrete case. And it is not present at you in this case. There are only one empty ambitions, exclusively

Spygirl: I'll  match my I.Q. against yours any day! Is it just a bad day that compells your cheap shots?

You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension.  The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.

You know on the substance of this business even less, but makes very ambitious statements behind which stand only empty and anything besides. You do not have even understanding that stands up for the text autopsy.
Control question:
Describe signs of "explosions" which are found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations for "facts".
In general, what relation has your experience of mass explosions to case in point? Or you again try give out wished for the valid?

Spygirl: Why do you have such strong desires to discount everything not only I but about everyone in this forum?

I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.

Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel? 

I do not think so, I exactly see (from your comments) that you so all and perceive. If be otherwise you would write absolutely another on sense.

I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.

I have specially allocated fragment which is key in all your errors. As I receive all information on this case from first-hand and I know all this "kitchen" from within, therefore I and write that is actually, instead of in what that vague imaginations through ocean.


SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing)  "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"

You should speak only on its own behalf. Attempt hide for words of others gives out you as the person trying change you`s mind for another's mind.
Judging by that you write, you (and to he, if he so demands) will not have not enough knowledge of physics and realities of that place, what it understand. It is described for long time already at this forum. But it has not been understood even half. You do not notice that half year or one year ago, as well as that I have breaks in writing on 3 … 6 months is written. And you it try give out that I cannot that that to explain. Then remain in your errors and do not stick with requirements which you cannot understand never. Mind and formation for you will not suffice.

Spygirl: Ok, Sad WAB, nowhere have I stated I have a great understanding of physics. I have made it clear we worked very closely & with great reverence for all fields of study. Are you staying because you are a physicist you know more than the rest of us?

So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.

And you are Tatyana's executor?
Ha-ha.
We already talked to it about happened earlier. So it is not necessary be engaged in demagogy here.

Spygirl: The fact you completely ignore I'm a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.

Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.

& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.

It is too traditional reception of demagogues, when the holes in own knowledge cover with that demand from others that not condition understand.
It you should moderate the lies that you can know that useful about this case.
We have saying: at some people the impudence is the second happiness. However it is represented to me that at some Spygirl 1, it is not the second, but the first …

Great!! Another insult! Ya know,  this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.

And in your response to Tekumze you state the 9 died of "overcooling". That in no way gives conclusive evidence as to all documented injuries. Now who is the imprudent one ?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 10:24:20 AM by Spygirl 1 »
 

October 24, 2019, 06:04:26 PM
Reply #46
Offline

Spygirl 1


"Death by overcooling" does not disqualify the violence or homicide as a cause of death. If I lock a person in a freezer or force them outside without proper gear, that is 'technically' hypothermia, but legally and morally that is well performed murder

The subsequent reaction of the people involved in the investigation strongly alludes to a cover-up as otherwise there would be no need to close the area for public, to confiscate the evidence, to close the case as soon as possible and not to involve relavant experts in the investigation.

Agreed!! 👍
 

October 25, 2019, 07:04:00 AM
Reply #47

tekumze

Guest
Greetings to all.
Because I see that Mr WAB has lost his temper and has unnecessarily gotten into the forum with fairly hostile rhetoric. I would like to explain that it is important to understand that this gentleman is an old, ill, retired military officer who still believes in own mission. It must be understood that they were raised following the brainwashing doctrine and that it is difficult to go beyond that. To him any hint, that the cause of the Dyatlov tragedy is something else than a natural disaster, is an attack on his country. He just defends his country (USSR which officially not exist anymore) the way he was trained. Above all, it is obvious that he is a completely harmless old gentleman who is just lonely. He writes enormously, though he really has nothing to say. Therefore, I urge all participants in the forum on tolerance in accordance with the civilizational norm.
 

October 25, 2019, 08:46:34 AM
Reply #48
Offline

Spygirl 1


Greetings to all.
Because I see that Mr WAB has lost his temper and has unnecessarily gotten into the forum with fairly hostile rhetoric. I would like to explain that it is important to understand that this gentleman is an old, ill, retired military officer who still believes in own mission. It must be understood that they were raised following the brainwashing doctrine and that it is difficult to go beyond that. To him any hint, that the cause of the Dyatlov tragedy is something else than a natural disaster, is an attack on his country. He just defends his country (USSR which officially not exist anymore) the way he was trained. Above all, it is obvious that he is a completely harmless old gentleman who is just lonely. He writes enormously, though he really has nothing to say. Therefore, I urge all participants in the forum on tolerance in accordance with the civilizational norm.

I SOOOOOO appreciate your post. You're so right-- I never expected my first post to be received so hostile & discounted.

With my background I was gleaming he had a very old -school USSR mindset.

So, I promise to take your advice & all of us can get back to the spirit intended on this forum.

Again, my deepest apologies for the rift.

Best wishes to all

Kindest Regards-
Spygirl
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 08:55:02 AM by Spygirl 1 »
 

October 25, 2019, 09:26:14 AM
Reply #49
Offline

Spygirl 1


Ugh  bigjoke--another duplicate post. Sorry!
 

October 25, 2019, 12:48:36 PM
Reply #50
Offline

Spygirl 1



.................................................

Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!

The little girl, when next time to you will suggest pass from younger group to average, it is not necessary agree, it ilink=topic=523.msg7547#msg7547 date=1571885146]
What are you doing, WAB-- starting a Cold War with me?

I was not going be at war with anybody (though as the former military man I have rank lieutenant colonel Air Forces and fighting experience). But if to me try offer frank lies, which name the facts, I can answer.

You keep talking about facts. What appears  to be a fact your use of a jaundiced eye that discounts every single comment I've posted.

These comments are equivalent to silly fabrications as they ignore the facts which are replaced with rough imaginations, but have no relation to that that was then actually.

I have 30 years of field experience. I have worked on some of the largest cases in recent US history.  We worked closely with coroners, medical examiner's, police departments, etc. There was always a great respect between different personnel/ agencies involved who all played a positive role in determining each case. However, in the end it was usually those in my position
who developed conclusive forensic evidence.

Physicists have noticed for long time that there is nothing more silly, than the expert in one field of knowledge when it try to argue in other field of knowledge in which it has not got sufficient education or has no sufficient knowledge. It is just such case. Conditionally tell: lying on sofa argue that occurs on other party of the earth, and not have about it the slightest representation.
But if there was desire show that you have such prejudiced and ready on substitution of concepts "experts" it was possible more than well.

You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.

Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!

Well certainly, if not have there is enough knowledge and not understand at all concrete case they and cannot give any representation. Really such low skill level at Federal agents of the USA? Especially against what they neglect reliability of the information and replace the facts with the imaginations about it? Or replace the information from “yellow mass-media”.
It is interesting, why my objections can not contradict inventions if I inform what is actually, and others try protect his unreal imaginations?
And why you written at forum should be more authentic than what is on place and in those real conditions? You, and practically all who writes there, were not (and even no have representation) in difference from me. Or it is such your principle: If the facts contradict for your statements, let will be worse for the facts?


You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.

The intelligence it is shown in not what for replace the facts with imaginations, and in that level of knowledge which the author has. And in ability use this knowledge in concrete case. And it is not present at you in this case. There are only one empty ambitions, exclusively.

You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension.  The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.

You know on the substance of this business even less, but makes very ambitious statements behind which stand only empty and anything besides. You do not have even understanding that stands up for the text autopsy.
Control question:
Describe signs of "explosions" which are found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations for "facts".
In general, what relation has your experience of mass explosions to case in point? Or you again try give out wished for the valid?

I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.

Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel? 

I do not think so, I exactly see (from your comments) that you so all and perceive. If be otherwise you would write absolutely another on sense.

I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.

I have specially allocated fragment which is key in all your errors. As I receive all information on this case from first-hand and I know all this "kitchen" from within, therefore I and write that is actually, instead of in what that vague imaginations through ocean.

SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing)  "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"

You should speak only on its own behalf. Attempt hide for words of others gives out you as the person trying change you`s mind for another's mind.
Judging by that you write, you (and to he, if he so demands) will not have not enough knowledge of physics and realities of that place, what it understand. It is described for long time already at this forum. But it has not been understood even half. You do not notice that half year or one year ago, as well as that I have breaks in writing on 3 … 6 months is written. And you it try give out that I cannot that that to explain. Then remain in your errors and do not stick with requirements which you cannot understand never. Mind and formation for you will not suffice.

So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.

And you are Tatyana's executor?
Ha-ha.
We already talked to it about happened earlier. So it is not necessary be engaged in demagogy here.

Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.

& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.

It is too traditional reception of demagogues, when the holes in own knowledge cover with that demand from others that not condition understand.
It you should moderate the lies that you can know that useful about this case.
We have saying: at some people the impudence is the second happiness. However it is represented to me that at some Spygirl 1, it is not the second, but the first …
[/quote]
 

October 25, 2019, 01:19:37 PM
Reply #51
Offline

Spygirl 1



.................................................

Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!

The little girl, when next time to you will suggest pass from younger group to average, it is not necessary agree, it is still very much early. It there does not correspond level of perception of the validity to life realities. Though, it still nobody

These comments are equivalent to silly fabrications as they ignore the facts

Spygirl: Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved.

Are you stating a physicist knows more than the most senior-level US Agent has? That is quite laughable😜

You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.

Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!

Well certainly, if not have there is enough knowledge and not understand at all concrete case they and cannot give any representation. Really such low skill level at Federal agents of the USA? Especially against what they neglect reliability of the information and replace the facts with the imaginations about it? Or replace the information from “yellow mass-media”.
It is interesting, why my objections can not contradict inventions if I inform what is actually, and others try protect his unreal imaginations?
And why you written at forum should be more authentic than what is on place and in those real conditions? You, and practically all who writes there, were not (and even no have representation) in difference from me. Or it is such your principle: If the facts contradict for your statements, let will be worse for the facts?

Spygirl: How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position.  Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI.



You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.

The intelligence it is shown in not what for replace the facts with imaginations, and in that level of knowledge which the author has. And in ability use this knowledge in concrete case. And it is not present at you in this case. There are only one empty ambitions, exclusively

Spygirl: I'll  match my I.Q. against yours any day! Is it just a bad day that compells your cheap shots?

You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension.  The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.

You know on the substance of this business even less, but makes very ambitious statements behind which stand only empty and anything besides. You do not have even understanding that stands up for the text autopsy.
Control question:
Describe signs of "explosions" which are found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations for "facts".
In general, what relation has your experience of mass explosions to case in point? Or you again try give out wished for the valid?

Spygirl: Why do you have such strong desires to discount everything not only I but about everyone in this forum?

I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.

Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel? 

I do not think so, I exactly see (from your comments) that you so all and perceive. If be otherwise you would write absolutely another on sense.

I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.

I have specially allocated fragment which is key in all your errors. As I receive all information on this case from first-hand and I know all this "kitchen" from within, therefore I and write that is actually, instead of in what that vague imaginations through ocean.


SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing)  "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"

You should speak only on its own behalf. Attempt hide for words of others gives out you as the person trying change you`s mind for another's mind.
Judging by that you write, you (and to he, if he so demands) will not have not enough knowledge of physics and realities of that place, what it understand. It is described for long time already at this forum. But it has not been understood even half. You do not notice that half year or one year ago, as well as that I have breaks in writing on 3 … 6 months is written. And you it try give out that I cannot that that to explain. Then remain in your errors and do not stick with requirements which you cannot understand never. Mind and formation for you will not suffice.

Spygirl: Ok, Sad WAB, nowhere have I stated I have a great understanding of physics. I have made it clear we worked very closely & with great reverence for all fields of study. Are you staying because you are a physicist you know more than the rest of us?

So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.

And you are Tatyana's executor?
Ha-ha.
We already talked to it about happened earlier. So it is not necessary be engaged in demagogy here.

Spygirl: The fact you completely ignore I'm a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.

Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.

& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.

It is too traditional reception of demagogues, when the holes in own knowledge cover with that demand from others that not condition understand.
It you should moderate the lies that you can know that useful about this case.
We have saying: at some peop
 

October 25, 2019, 01:21:47 PM
Reply #52
Offline

Spygirl 1



.................................................

Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!

The little girl, when next time to you will suggest pass from younger group to average, it is not necessary agree, it is still very much early. It there does not correspond level of perception of the validity to life realities. Though, it still nobody

These comments are equivalent to silly fabrications as they ignore the facts

Spygirl: Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved
You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.

Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!

Well certainly, if not have there is enough knowledge and not understand at all concrete case they and cannot give any representation. Really such low skill level at Federal agents of the USA? Especially against what they neglect reliability of the information and replace the facts with the imaginations about it? Or replace the information from “yellow mass-media”.
It is interesting, why my objections can not contradict inventions if I inform what is actually, and others try protect his unreal imaginations?
And why you written at forum should be more authentic than what is on place and in those real conditions? You, and practically all who writes there, were not (and even no have representation) in difference from me. Or it is such your principle: If the facts contradict for your statements, let will be worse for the facts?

Spygirl: How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position.  Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI.



You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.

The intelligence it is shown in not what for replace the facts with imaginations, and in that level of knowledge which the author has. And in ability use this knowledge in concrete case. And it is not present at you in this case. There are only one empty ambitions, exclusively

Spygirl: I'll  match my I.Q. against yours any day! Is it just a bad day that compells your cheap shots?

You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension.  The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.

You know on the substance of this business even less, but makes very ambitious statements behind which stand only empty and anything besides. You do not have even understanding that stands up for the text autopsy.
Control question:
Describe signs of "explosions" which are found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations for "facts".
In general, what relation has your experience of mass explosions to case in point? Or you again try give out wished for the valid?

Spygirl: Why do you have such strong desires to discount everything not only I but about everyone in this forum?

I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.

Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel? 

I do not think so, I exactly see (from your comments) that you so all and perceive. If be otherwise you would write absolutely another on sense.

I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.

I have specially allocated fragment which is key in all your errors. As I receive all information on this case from first-hand and I know all this "kitchen" from within, therefore I and write that is actually, instead of in what that vague imaginations through ocean.


SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing)  "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"

You should speak only on its own behalf. Attempt hide for words of others gives out you as the person trying change you`s mind for another's mind.
Judging by that you write, you (and to he, if he so demands) will not have not enough knowledge of physics and realities of that place, what it understand. It is described for long time already at this forum. But it has not been understood even half. You do not notice that half year or one year ago, as well as that I have breaks in writing on 3 … 6 months is written. And you it try give out that I cannot that that to explain. Then remain in your errors and do not stick with requirements which you cannot understand never. Mind and formation for you will not suffice.

Spygirl: Ok, Sad WAB, nowhere have I stated I have a great understanding of physics. I have made it clear we worked very closely & with great reverence for all fields of study. Are you staying because you are a physicist you know more than the rest of us?

So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.

And you are Tatyana's executor?
Ha-ha.
We already talked to it about happened earlier. So it is not necessary be engaged in demagogy here.

Spygirl: The fact you completely ignore I'm a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.

Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.

& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.

It is too traditional reception of demagogues, when the holes in own knowledge cover with that demand from others that not condition understand.
It you should moderate the lies that you can know that useful about this case.
We have saying: at some people the impudence is the second happiness. However it is represented to me that at some Spygirl 1, it is not the second, but the first …

Great!! Another insult! Ya know,  this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.

And in your response to Tekumze you state the 9 died of "overcooling". That in no way gives conclusive evidence as to all documented injuries. Now who is the imprudent one ?
 

October 25, 2019, 08:46:43 PM
Reply #53
Offline

Spygirl 1



...............................................
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ON ALL THESE REPEATED POSTS PLEASE GIVE ME A MINUTE TO CLEAN UP.

I APOLOGIZE FOR THE CLUTTER AND DISARRAY.

ASKING IF YOU FOLKS WILL ASSIST ME VIA  PRIVATE MESSAGE TO INSTRUCT ME ON HOW TO RESPOND TO POSTS PROPERLY- I.E. MAKE MY RESPONSE APPEAR LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. CURRENTLY I SUCK AT IT!!!  nea1wink1 shock1

THANKS IN ADVANCE
😊

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Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!

The little girl, when next time to you will suggest pass from younger group to average, it is not necessary agree, it is still very much early. It there does not correspond level of perception of the validity to life realities. Though, it still nobody

These comments are equivalent to silly fabrications as they ignore the facts

Spygirl: Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved
You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.

Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!

Well certainly, if not have there is enough knowledge and not understand at all concrete case they and cannot give any representation. Really such low skill level at Federal agents of the USA? Especially against what they neglect reliability of the information and replace the facts with the imaginations about it? Or replace the information from “yellow mass-media”.
It is interesting, why my objections can not contradict inventions if I inform what is actually, and others try protect his unreal imaginations?
And why you written at forum should be more authentic than what is on place and in those real conditions? You, and practically all who writes there, were not (and even no have representation) in difference from me. Or it is such your principle: If the facts contradict for your statements, let will be worse for the facts?

Spygirl: How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position.  Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI.



You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.

The intelligence it is shown in not what for replace the facts with imaginations, and in that level of knowledge which the author has. And in ability use this knowledge in concrete case. And it is not present at you in this case. There are only one empty ambitions, exclusively

Spygirl: I'll  match my I.Q. against yours any day! Is it just a bad day that compells your cheap shots?

You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension.  The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.

You know on the substance of this business even less, but makes very ambitious statements behind which stand only empty and anything besides. You do not have even understanding that stands up for the text autopsy.
Control question:
Describe signs of "explosions" which are found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations for "facts".
In general, what relation has your experience of mass explosions to case in point? Or you again try give out wished for the valid?

Spygirl: Why do you have such strong desires to discount everything not only I but about everyone in this forum?

I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.

Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel? 

I do not think so, I exactly see (from your comments) that you so all and perceive. If be otherwise you would write absolutely another on sense.

I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.

I have specially allocated fragment which is key in all your errors. As I receive all information on this case from first-hand and I know all this "kitchen" from within, therefore I and write that is actually, instead of in what that vague imaginations through ocean.


SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing)  "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"

You should speak only on its own behalf. Attempt hide for words of others gives out you as the person trying change you`s mind for another's mind.
Judging by that you write, you (and to he, if he so demands) will not have not enough knowledge of physics and realities of that place, what it understand. It is described for long time already at this forum. But it has not been understood even half. You do not notice that half year or one year ago, as well as that I have breaks in writing on 3 … 6 months is written. And you it try give out that I cannot that that to explain. Then remain in your errors and do not stick with requirements which you cannot understand never. Mind and formation for you will not suffice.

Spygirl: Ok, Sad WAB, nowhere have I stated I have a great understanding of physics. I have made it clear we worked very closely & with great reverence for all fields of study. Are you staying because you are a physicist you know more than the rest of us?

So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.

And you are Tatyana's executor?
Ha-ha.
We already talked to it about happened earlier. So it is not necessary be engaged in demagogy here.

Spygirl: The fact you completely ignore I'm a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.

Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.

& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.

It is too traditional reception of demagogues, when the holes in own knowledge cover with that demand from others that not condition understand.
It you should moderate the lies that you can know that useful about this case.
We have saying: at some people the impudence is the second happiness. However it is represented to me that at some Spygirl 1, it is not the second, but the first …

Great!! Another insult! Ya know,  this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.

And in your response to Tekumze you state the 9 died of "overcooling". That in no way gives conclusive evidence as to all documented injuries. Now who is the imprudent one ?
 

October 26, 2019, 04:54:53 AM
Reply #54
Offline

Nigel Evans


Arguments against an explosion in the ravine :-
  • Based on the injuries and discovered positions a good case can be made that they were run over by a multi wheeled or tracked vehicle (or ball lightning :) http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=398.90
  • The autopsy missed Semyon's fractured (cracked) shoulder blade (discovered on exhumation) which suggests that he was lying on his back (on something hard) when the fatal blow occurred.
  • The vehicle theory fits very well with an opinion by at least one pathologist that Lydumila suffered two events to fracture both sides of her chest.
  • There is no report of burst lungs which it is my understanding must be present for an explosion of the required magnitude.
The vehicle theory of course fits very well with some of the other evidence which points to military activity, possible rocket fuel and signs of a cleanup afterwards (snow rings = helicopter), team of sappers with metal detectors commanded by a senior staff officer (Lieutenant Colonel!), a senior member of the legal system traveled hundreds of miles to be present at the first five autopsies.....
As to why there had to be a big shutdown a clue is that Yuri K's father appears to have been extremely well connected to the extent that he had Stalin's personal approval. Also Khrushchev was close to reforming the military by downsizing it and accidentally killing 9 young people including the son of a well connected family required some significant hushing up.
So imo that's the DPI case solved, but the interesting question is why the military activity? And here you have to look at those Plane1/2 photos and ask what if they really are of some aerial electro magnetic phenomena. What if they triggered cold war invasion protocols? The USSR military attacking it's own country and killing citizens? Just before potential downsizing reforms? Now that would need some serious covering up, never to be uncovered.
 

October 26, 2019, 08:25:13 AM
Reply #55
Offline

Jacques-Emile


"Argument" in opposition to hypothesis is argument in opposition to hypothesis, not listing random alternative possibilities.
First and Foremost:  MA Sadovsky is the physicist who definitively stated the theoretical physics.  His work is well summarized at https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/.  Download and read.  After Sadovsky formulas were stated, there is only particular applications to certain circumstances.
Explosions can be different sizes depending on the amount of explosives used to cause explosion.
It is exasperating to read, over and over again, such things as " a good case can be made that they were run over by a multi wheeled or tracked vehicle"  The impulse wave to the bodies is lasting in small millisecond amounts.  Not like wheeled vehicle.  Read Tumanov discussion earlier in page.
Reading forums is exasperating as the same bad physics is regurgitated over and over again.
 

October 26, 2019, 08:40:39 AM
Reply #56
Offline

Jacques-Emile


Spygirl 1,Thanks!
With your support I didn't need much to find a black cat in the black room.
And now I also understand what the job of this cat is in this forum. If you know what I mean...declare1
Hmmm....you think he is American President Trump, also?  lol2
 

October 26, 2019, 09:43:00 AM
Reply #57
Offline

Nigel Evans


"Argument" in opposition to hypothesis is argument in opposition to hypothesis, not listing random alternative possibilities.
First and Foremost:  MA Sadovsky is the physicist who definitively stated the theoretical physics.  His work is well summarized at https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/.  Download and read.  After Sadovsky formulas were stated, there is only particular applications to certain circumstances.
C
It is exasperating to read, over and over again, such things as " a good case can be made that they were run over by a multi wheeled or tracked vehicle"  The impulse wave to the bodies is lasting in small millisecond amounts.  Not like wheeled vehicle.  Read Tumanov discussion earlier in page.
Reading forums is exasperating as the same bad physics is regurgitated over and over again.
Ah Jacques me' old exasperating sparring partner...Thanks for the best quote on this forum for some time - "Explosions can be different sizes depending on the amount of explosives used to cause explosion."
It's gems like that, that keep me coming back here for more enlightenment... and in return  - so true don't you think? However we have to consider the possibility of it just being a random alternative possibility masquerading as an argument against a hypothesis of course.(Or something like that anyway, i'm getting a bit lost in all of that, i never was good at dinosaurs...).

Now I know you as a diligent member of the forum will have read the link i posted end to end but here's some points just for anyone else who might be slightly less diligent. The "ravine vehicle theory" goes like this :-
  • A vehicle, multi wheeled or tracked approaches at speed downhill.
  • The weight of this vehicle causes the den roof to collapse just ahead of the first wheel (or front of track). This positions the bodies as shown.
  • The den roof collapsing creates a pit/crater that one side of the front of the vehicle drops into before rising out.
  • It is this short impulse that cracks ribs and squeezes a skull and the person that suffers the worst fractures (Lyudmila) is in the correct position for receiving the most force.
  • The vehicle then continues forward rising out of the crater but with the rear wheel or track again dropping into the crater creating another impulse and secondary fractures as with Lyudmila.
Further to the case against an explosion :-
  • Although Ivanov seized on burnt trees for his fireorb theory there is no record of any damage to any sapling or branch in the ravine. This on it's own rules out an explosion at that location.
  • So the only way forward then is that the den was a construction but somehow unknown to the KGB et al who spent three months up to their gonads triple probing 1500 hectares of mountain.
  • But then you have the curious question - "why go to all that effort for 4 members of the group but leave another 5 in the open air?".
  • and there's the ever so minor matter of no burst lungs being recorded. Possibly incompetence of course but an explosion of that magnitude should have created obvious lung damage?
 

October 26, 2019, 10:57:46 AM
Reply #58
Offline

Jacques-Emile


"Argument" in opposition to hypothesis is argument in opposition to hypothesis, not listing random alternative possibilities.
First and Foremost:  MA Sadovsky is the physicist who definitively stated the theoretical physics.  His work is well summarized at https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/.  Download and read.  After Sadovsky formulas were stated, there is only particular applications to certain circumstances.
C
It is exasperating to read, over and over again, such things as " a good case can be made that they were run over by a multi wheeled or tracked vehicle"  The impulse wave to the bodies is lasting in small millisecond amounts.  Not like wheeled vehicle.  Read Tumanov discussion earlier in page.
Reading forums is exasperating as the same bad physics is regurgitated over and over again.
Ah Jacques me' old exasperating sparring partner...Thanks for the best quote on this forum for some time - "Explosions can be different sizes depending on the amount of explosives used to cause explosion."
It's gems like that, that keep me coming back here for more enlightenment... and in return  - so true don't you think? However we have to consider the possibility of it just being a random alternative possibility masquerading as an argument against a hypothesis of course.(Or something like that anyway, i'm getting a bit lost in all of that, i never was good at dinosaurs...).

Now I know you as a diligent member of the forum will have read the link i posted end to end but here's some points just for anyone else who might be slightly less diligent. The "ravine vehicle theory" goes like this :-
  • A vehicle, multi wheeled or tracked approaches at speed downhill.
  • The weight of this vehicle causes the den roof to collapse just ahead of the first wheel (or front of track). This positions the bodies as shown.
  • The den roof collapsing creates a pit/crater that one side of the front of the vehicle drops into before rising out.
  • It is this short impulse that cracks ribs and squeezes a skull and the person that suffers the worst fractures (Lyudmila) is in the correct position for receiving the most force.
  • The vehicle then continues forward rising out of the crater but with the rear wheel or track again dropping into the crater creating another impulse and secondary fractures as with Lyudmila.
Further to the case against an explosion :-
  • Although Ivanov seized on burnt trees for his fireorb theory there is no record of any damage to any sapling or branch in the ravine. This on it's own rules out an explosion at that location.
  • So the only way forward then is that the den was a construction but somehow unknown to the KGB et al who spent three months up to their gonads triple probing 1500 hectares of mountain.
  • But then you have the curious question - "why go to all that effort for 4 members of the group but leave another 5 in the open air?".
  • and there's the ever so minor matter of no burst lungs being recorded. Possibly incompetence of course but an explosion of that magnitude should have created obvious lung damage?
 

October 26, 2019, 07:07:06 PM
Reply #59
Offline

Jacques-Emile


"Argument" in opposition to hypothesis is argument in opposition to hypothesis, not listing random alternative possibilities.
First and Foremost:  MA Sadovsky is the physicist who definitively stated the theoretical physics.  His work is well summarized at https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/.  Download and read.  After Sadovsky formulas were stated, there is only particular applications to certain circumstances.
It is exasperating to read, over and over again, such things as " a good case can be made that they were run over by a multi wheeled or tracked vehicle"  The impulse wave to the bodies is lasting in small millisecond amounts.  Not like wheeled vehicle.  Read Tumanov discussion earlier in page.
Reading forums is exasperating as the same bad physics is regurgitated over and over again.
Ah Jacques me' old exasperating sparring partner...Thanks for the best quote on this forum for some time - "Explosions can be different sizes depending on the amount of explosives used to cause explosion."
It's gems like that, that keep me coming back here for more
More of what?
This site has two sides. I am absolutely astonished - the brilliant and diligent diligence of those who discover documents and artifacts. You are incredible! I think of Teddy and all the founders and so many others. So grateful for your work!

Then, two levels ago. We are secondary members and we do respectfully everything we can to improve the discourse.
Of secondary members, I am very disappointed, and especially of you, Nigel. You do not add any primary source material; but you do not care to intervene in a mutually beneficial way.
I know professionally with some aspects of the biophysics of the effects of explosions on humans. There are two other people (WAB, spygirl) who talk about this subject in a meaningful way (apart from the quarrels). The article I quoted proposes:

There is common set of equations witch can be used for calculation of blast wave from explosive charges, it's called Sadovsky formulas. It works regardless on nature of explosion and depends only on TNT equivalent of explosive charge. All this calculations are based on energy similarity law for explosions witch stated that all blast wave parameters are function of two variables: first is explosion energy and second is distance from explosion origin.
My God, read them maybe! For you, it's trivial nonsense, like a sketch of Monty Python. What is this two-variable equation, energy and distance? You do not understand, so you do not care. Ho-ho, stupid smart people! Scientists are fools, no? You then seem Homer Simpson of the council.
It is impossible to be a contributing secondary member of the board, to offer analysis of the main source material. As many of the members seem so, the board seems now, you can keep it, it's up to you, bye. You win.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 08:31:33 PM by Jacques-Emile »