Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dona on March 22, 2021, 02:58:51 PM
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They didnt work together s a team.. They broke off into 2 factions.. Half followed Simon and his miltary training.. find a ravine and wait it out.. The others followed Igor and his hikers training.. Gather wood, build a snow cave etc.. It was only Igors team that was scraped up, bruised and abrasions on them.. Knuckles bruised and bloody because they were doing the work..They were digging and climbing trees.. Simons team has barely a scratch on them..
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The 4 in the ravine had the worst injuries on them. The ones under the cedar had some injuries and the 3 found on the slope had barely any.
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Re-read my post...more slowly..
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They didnt work together s a team.. They broke off into 2 factions.. Half followed Simon and his miltary training.. find a ravine and wait it out.. The others followed Igor and his hikers training.. Gather wood, build a snow cave etc.. It was only Igors team that was scraped up, bruised and abrasions on them.. Knuckles bruised and bloody because they were doing the work..They were digging and climbing trees.. Simons team has barely a scratch on them..
I think you have got the sequence wrong for a start.
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What sequence?? I didnt sequence anything.. Unless you believe they were injured at the tent... Not possible.. the single file footprints prove that..
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Yes they split up, the case files mention the footsteps diverging and the injury profile is very different between the two groups which tells a story. It could be a disagreement over the path to take. I think you're seeing Semyon's WW2 experience shining through here. I like the theory that they didn't all make it down and the rest lit a fire at the cedar on a knoll because it would provide a beacon for the stragglers. (there are better places to build a fire than on a raised area...). I like the idea that Zina, Rustem, Igor never made it down. The 2 Yuris were part of the same group but reached the cedar in a terrible mess expiring shortly afterwards. Zina, Rustem and Igor may have been blinded.
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I have wondered myself why they built the fire there.. Seems and odd place... Maybe they put it there because they were getting the wood from the cedar tree? I dont know.. tis weird tho..
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They didnt work together s a team.. They broke off into 2 factions.. Half followed Simon and his miltary training.. find a ravine and wait it out.. The others followed Igor and his hikers training.. Gather wood, build a snow cave etc.. It was only Igors team that was scraped up, bruised and abrasions on them.. Knuckles bruised and bloody because they were doing the work..They were digging and climbing trees.. Simons team has barely a scratch on them..
You say that they broke off into 2 factions. Half followed Simon to find a Ravine and wait it out. The others followed Igor to build a snow cave etc. This is your sequence on the Dyatlov Group leaving the area of the Tent. Then you say that only Igors team was scraped up. Every Member of the Dyatlov Group had bodily injuries. Whatever happened at the Tent must have scared the living daylights out of the Dyatlov Group. It must also have been something completely unexpected in order for them to abandon that Tent without proper protection or any equipment to survive outside for any length of time. Its almost a certainty that they headed down to the Treeline together as a Group. Once at the Treeline something else happened. All indications suggest desperate measures to survive with little time to do so. 2 die at the Cedar Tree. 3 die on the slope up towards the abandoned Tent. The other 4 are found dead at the Ravine. They didnt break off into 2 factions.
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They split in the woods.. Not sure what your point is regarding their deaths..
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They split in the woods.. Not sure what your point is regarding their deaths..
We dont really know how they came to separate because we lack Evidence. The positions of the bodies tell us that they were separated, thats for sure.
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Its who is n the ravine that makes it suspicious..
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Its who is n the ravine that makes it suspicious..
What is suspicious about that ! ?
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Alex, a nuclear scientist with a device,thats gone missing, radiation spills, Simon the odd man with a nefarious background,rushed into the group and Nick, why buddied up with Simon, in a day.. It couldnt be worse..
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Alex, a nuclear scientist with a device,thats gone missing, radiation spills, Simon the odd man with a nefarious background,rushed into the group and Nick, why buddied up with Simon, in a day.. It couldnt be worse..
What device went missing ! ? Radiation spills ! ? Radiation was Detected in the area and on some clothing, but where from no one knows.
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The device the nuclear scientist was lugging up the mountain that Zena talks about him having and testing along the way
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The device the nuclear scientist was lugging up the mountain that Zena talks about him having and testing along the way
That was a sledge he'd attempted to make out of skies.
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What is a sledge and where did you see that?
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What is a sledge and where did you see that?
A sledge is like a basic sled or toboggan kind of thing, meant to help haul their items. They were using a spare pair of skis. There was a lot of equipment to haul and every piece had to be weighed as there were limits on how much they could each carry. One of the girls was still carrying relatively lighter weight after an injury the summer before. Kolevatov had attempted to throw together a sledge to help haul in the deeper snow (they were having issues with the weight and the deeper snows in the forest.). It is mentioned in Kolmogorova's diary as well as the Evening Otorten and I think it was mentioned by Yudin later, but I may be wrong on that last part (I have to go back to my notes, so it may be a bit before I can confirm that.)
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This was a level 3 certification. They werent allowed to have anything like that.
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This was a level 3 certification. They werent allowed to have anything like that.
There wasn't any restriction of this kind for level 3 certification.
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Everything had to be hand carried... from what I have read
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Everything had to be hand carried... from what I have read
Nope. Here is an article WAB wrote some time back.
https://dyatlovpass.com/sports-classification
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It doesnt mention it..
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It doesnt mention it..
It doesn't mention you can't use a sledge because there was no restriction on it. In order to be certified as category III, you needed total length, duration (with a certain number of days at a distance from civilization,) a certain number of nights in winter condition (that doesn't mean without the stove, or tent, just that they had to overnight with only the supplies they brought with them,) and a certain amount and extent of natural obstacles. This had to be done autonomously, as in without outside help.
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This is not the rule manual.. I'm sure its more than one paragraph..
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This is not the rule manual.. I'm sure its more than one paragraph..
No, its not a rule manual. It is just an article by someone who was involved in winter trekking at that time in Soviet Russia. However, if you feel there was a rule against this, maybe you can point us to where you found that? It would certainly change some theories, that's for certain.
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It was in a video.. too many to remember which one.. maybe someone else knows..
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It was in a video.. too many to remember which one.. maybe someone else knows..
If you ever do run across something conclusive, please do share!! I will likewise see if I can find something closer to what you are looking for, as far as a definitive manual.
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Ok sounds good.. I wonder if Teddy would know..
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I just went thru Zena's diary and I dont see anything about it..
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I just went thru Zena's diary and I dont see anything about it..
Its her comment from 28 Jan (erroneously written as 28.2.58,) that you mentioned above ("Sasha Kolevatov tested his device, then quit,") and in the Evening Otorten, ("Hiking drag sled.
Good while riding on the train, by car and on horseback. Not recommended for freight transportation on snow. For further information contact chief constructor Comrade Kolevatov.")
Sometimes, we have to remember that the diaries are translated from Russian into English for us to read here. Words which have a meaning to us, are not always the literal definition of the translated word. In this case, I think you are focusing on the word "device" to mean a small machine or technical equipment, which in modern English is what we most associate the word with. If you look at the inventory lists, there are no such machines or technical pieces of equipment. He simply tried to tie a couple of skies together to drag some if their things behind him. It didn't work. He was an engineering student and it was well intentioned, lol! I give him props for the ingenuity, though.
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I cant find that... have a link?
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The Kolevatov sledge (photo):
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=84913
In what order did the hikers die:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=90145
How to dig a snow shelter without tools:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=99479
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Everything here is pure supposition.. someones personal opinion.. There is no discussion about any sledge.. its made up..All of it..One says they arrived ta the forest in intervals etc..There are no facts here.. Its multiple theories only..
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Of course you would use what was available to dig snow cave..but at the end of the dya, you are going to have to use your hands..
Remember the Swedish hikers that died in a similar situation. There was blood everywhere.. from digging.
Also,remember, the Otorten Evening News was fictional.
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KFinn....
I found this.. Not sure if it is relevant or was for 1959..but it does say alpine equipment only..so there are restrictions on equipment..
"III (moderately difficult) - snow and ice sections at an angle of 35°-45°. Steep rock features with good and numerous holds, not requiring artificial aids - descent of such passages being done by free climbing or abseiling.> Basic alpine equipment only, plus normal rock climbing gear."<
https://www.summitpost.org/russian-alpine-grades/178646
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KFinn....
I found this.. Not sure if it is relevant or was for 1959..but it does say alpine equipment only..so there are restrictions on equipment..
"III (moderately difficult) - snow and ice sections at an angle of 35°-45°. Steep rock features with good and numerous holds, not requiring artificial aids - descent of such passages being done by free climbing or abseiling.> Basic alpine equipment only, plus normal rock climbing gear."<
https://www.summitpost.org/russian-alpine-grades/178646
Alpine style is considered the "purist" form for various outdoor sports. Nowadays, you mostly hear about it for high altitude climbing; you can't use supplemental oxygen, I don't believe porters can help you carry equipment beyond a certain altitude, etc. I don't know that it would necessarily intersect with Soviet winter tourism, however. In the respect that they pushed the "you aganist the elements," it was a very purist style of sport. I did spend a couple of hours last night going through various manuals on Soviet tourism but most of them focused on the 1970's and beyond. Still looking, however. I did make note that a new youth tourism bureau was formed in 1958, less than a year before Dyatlov. That has nothing to do with this convo but it adds to the volume of reasons why Khruschev might have wanted to be directly involved in the DPI; bad press when they are telling everybody to do it.
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Yeah.. I was just pointing out the equipment restrictions are used..
What is DPI?
I tried to remember what video it was but, that wont actually prove anything.. I am positive that someone said that tho..
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Yeah.. I was just pointing out the equipment restrictions are used..
What is DPI?
I tried to remember what video it was but, that wont actually prove anything.. I am positive that someone said that tho..
DPI is short hand for "Dyatlov Pass Incident." I'm so sorry; I use vernacular for easier typing and I sometimes forget not everyone is inside my head to know what I mean (and feel lucky you are not in my head, its a scary place, lol!!!)
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LOL. Thanks.. But, you sound pretty level to me :)
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LOL. Thanks.. But, you sound pretty level to me :)
You are very kind!! I have my moments... its the crazy redhead part of me, lol!!
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Could be worse.. you could be a blond LOL Just kidding folks!
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Could be worse.. you could be a blond LOL Just kidding folks!
LOL!!!!
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The device the nuclear scientist was lugging up the mountain that Zena talks about him having and testing along the way
There was no device.
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It doesnt mention it..
This question of needing a Level 3 Certificate doesnt specify exactly what they should or shouldnt do in order to get one.
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Ok sounds good.. I wonder if Teddy would know..
Of course Teddy would know. The gaining of a Level 3 Certificate did not require a set examination. They only had to achieve certain things during their expedition.
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The question is whether they were allowed sleds to carry equipment.. I heard it was not alloweed
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"There was no device."
Zena documented the device
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The question is whether they were allowed sleds to carry equipment.. I heard it was not alloweed
Well they had Skis and Backpacks so what not a simple Sled ! ?
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"There was no device."
Zena documented the device
Device is probably not the best description of it.
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They had to hand carry everything... Thats what I heard, for a grade 3 certification
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"There was no device."
Zena documented the device
Device is probably not the best description of it.
How do you know ? You dont know what it was..
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"There was no device."
Zena documented the device
Device is probably not the best description of it.
Better to think of the so called device as a contraption or piece of equipment. Device seems to conjure up something technical.
How do you know ? You dont know what it was..
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"There was no device."
Zena documented the device
Do you men a sled? LOL That is definitely not a sled..Thats laughable.
Device is probably not the best description of it.
Better to think of the so called device as a contraption or piece of equipment. Device seems to conjure up something technical.
How do you know ? You dont know what it was..
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Simons team has barely a scratch on them..
They were found months later and in flowing water... if you look at the autopsy reports, their outer layer of skin was already missing so it's not possible to determine if they had scratches or not because of this.
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Simons team has barely a scratch on them..
They were found months later and in flowing water... if you look at the autopsy reports, their outer layer of skin was already missing so it's not possible to determine if they had scratches or not because of this.
Thats false.. Even Ludas nipples are still intact..