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91

General Discussion / Zinc coffins

« Last post by GlennM on May 07, 2025, 11:56:26 AM »

We understand from the case files that without zinc coffins, the deceased were not going to be flown out. I investigated a bit further and came to understand that zinc as a material is effective in delaying decay of a cadaver and it allows a typically wooden coffin to be hermetically sealed.
The record shows that the deceased were frozen solid and sewed into tarpaulins for aerial transport. They were later to be thawed and forensically examined.

It occurs to me that sealing a body in a zinc coffin only to open it up again might ruin the integrity of the coffin. Secondly, the zinc coffin was not specifically required for any suspected radiation contamination. Third. a zinc coffin is used for people of some importance.

From this I conclude that there could be no surreptitious pre-flight re-dressing hard frozen corpses. Secondly, they were frozen and sewed so there was no real concern of a communicable disease escaping. Third, the DP9 were considered worth the expense and effort to be transported in something better than a utilitarian wooden casket, even though obtaining them was an inconvenience and a government expense.

I do not support the idea that using a zinc casket was a ploy to hide evidence of assassin's work. Far to many rescuers saw what they say, carried what they carried, and talked as they wished.

The DP9 (not 10 or 11) died by natural causes and moved in a military fashion which owing to the zinc caskets was not particularly expedient..

92

Murdered / Re: What the Prisoners Said

« Last post by Marc on May 07, 2025, 10:36:14 AM »

I respect the evidence and the original conclusion of the investigation, because these were people who lived at the time and did their job. And what other conclusion could I have drawn if I had looked at the evidence as it is? Probably the same - "unknown compelling force".
But when you look at the evidence in a so-called big picture (unprofessionally), I have always had the feeling that this could very well be a case of murder.

 If it was a murder, we often think that it was only known by the killers, but often the locals know a lot more than you would expect and think. It may even have been an open secret in the area - incredible, but for some reason people are not very good at keeping secrets, even if you are involved.
It is understandable that people are happy to talk about what happened among themselves, but do not want to talk publicly and to investigators. Yes, people speculate, like us, and not everything can be taken as truth...but you never know.

93

General Discussion / Re: Zolo's notebook

« Last post by SURI on May 07, 2025, 09:26:10 AM »

If the snow had collapsed from above and Zolotaryov had been holding a pencil and a notebook, they would probably have fallen out of his hands. Also, the position of Tibault's foot indicates a fall rather than anything else, like Dubinina's outstretched arms.

94

Murdered / What the Prisoners Said

« Last post by amashilu on May 07, 2025, 08:12:42 AM »

https://dyatlovpass.com/syunikaev-2021

This post offers no new evidence, just something that I think about and want to share.

What were you told happened to the hikers?
We were told that the group went on a hike and died. But they were killed!
Did you decide that yourself?
No. The prisoners told us.
How did they know?
The prisoners knew all the news - and what was happening in the Far East, and in Irkutsk. And here, right under their nose, a tragedy happened. We, the convoy, lived with the convicts. And, of course, we discussed this case. So the convicts said - this is murder, but you are looking in the wrong place.
So if the prisoners told you about the death of the hikers, then it turns out that one of the prisoners killed them?
Although most of them were imprisoned for murder, but no, it was not the convicts who killed the hikers.


I recognize this behavior of the prisoners.

I worked in a prison for 20 years. When a new employee is hired, such as myself, they have to complete a six-week full-time training of how to work within the prison system. One of the things that is hammered into us and repeated over and over again is that the prisoners have nothing to do but watch us and listen to us all day and all night. They watch and they listen. They know everything about everyone. We were told repeatedly that because they watch and listen, they are always the first to know everything, so we were trained in how to be very careful and never talk within their hearing distance. Of course, after a few years, everybody breaks this rule and talks more openly.

After my six weeks were up and I began actually working in the system, I was almost immediately shocked when faced with this very thing. As Syunikaev said, "the prisoners knew all the news." They really do — prison news, local news, regional news, national news, and world news.  They knew, as Syunikaev says, "what was happening in the Far East, and in Irkutsk. And here, right under their nose, a tragedy happened. We, the convoy, lived with the convicts. And of course we discussed this case. So the convicts said - this is murder, but you are looking in the wrong place ... "
So having had long personal experience with prisoners knowing everything that happens, from right outside their door to the world stage, when I read about these prisoners saying the hikers were murdered but the searchers were looking in the wrong place, I find it hard to discount what they said. They told this to their friends. Syunikaev lived with them and they talked and were friends. I don't believe the prisoners were lying about this. They knew something.

If there were only a prisoner from that time alive today, they would be able to share what they knew.

Just something to think about.

95

General Discussion / Re: Zolo's notebook

« Last post by Ziljoe on May 07, 2025, 08:00:06 AM »

If it is true that Zolotaryov had a pencil and a notebook in his hands, then the need to write something came only in the ravine. He didn't intend to write anything by the fire. The note would therefore only concern the 4 in the ravine and the reason for their tragedy – "we fell".

So if he had the opportunity to take out his pencil and notebook, he probably wasn't under the snow at the first moment. Which is logical, because otherwise the cause of death would have been suffocation.

That pencil and that notebook would have meant a lot in Zolotaryov's hands. This would rule out a lot of unlikely scenarios.

I have the same thought, Suri, that if he were holding a pencil and notebook, then how could he have been crushed by a ton of snow that broke his ribs? Also, Lyuda does not look to be in a position of having been crushed by snow.

For me, it's more possible to be lying holding a note pad and pen in a snow hole , then the snow collapses from above and causing the damage than any other explanation.

I can't see zolotaryov doing anything with a pen and paper with those injuries, so I conclude that the injuries must have happened whilst holding the pen and note book . If it were an explosion , I don't think they would be in his hands , likewise, I don't think outsiders would let them write things down then break bones.

I don't know how much truth of the report is actually true about the pen and paper as I think it's just one person that reported it.

Excluding a collapse of snow on lyinda , the only thing I could/can think of, is the position she is in , is the only manageable position for the injuries on her ribs for any kind of possible comfort. It would possibly allow her to breath with the least distress on the rib cage , obviously she would not be able to lie on her front . The same for zolotaryov but he wouldn't be lying on his side if he had these wounds , and definitely not holding a pen and paper with those fractures.

96

General Discussion / Re: Zolo's notebook

« Last post by MDGross on May 07, 2025, 07:54:17 AM »

If you're dying because of the actions of others, wouldn't you want to spell out who did it? "KGB" or "CIA" or "Mansi" or ...

97

General Discussion / Re: Zolo's notebook

« Last post by amashilu on May 07, 2025, 07:29:09 AM »

If it is true that Zolotaryov had a pencil and a notebook in his hands, then the need to write something came only in the ravine. He didn't intend to write anything by the fire. The note would therefore only concern the 4 in the ravine and the reason for their tragedy – "we fell".

So if he had the opportunity to take out his pencil and notebook, he probably wasn't under the snow at the first moment. Which is logical, because otherwise the cause of death would have been suffocation.

That pencil and that notebook would have meant a lot in Zolotaryov's hands. This would rule out a lot of unlikely scenarios.

I have the same thought, Suri, that if he were holding a pencil and notebook, then how could he have been crushed by a ton of snow that broke his ribs? Also, Lyuda does not look to be in a position of having been crushed by snow.

98

General Discussion / Re: Zolo's notebook

« Last post by SURI on May 07, 2025, 05:52:38 AM »

If it is true that Zolotaryov had a pencil and a notebook in his hands, then the need to write something came only in the ravine. He didn't intend to write anything by the fire. The note would therefore only concern the 4 in the ravine and the reason for their tragedy – "we fell".

So if he had the opportunity to take out his pencil and notebook, he probably wasn't under the snow at the first moment. Which is logical, because otherwise the cause of death would have been suffocation.

That pencil and that notebook would have meant a lot in Zolotaryov's hands. This would rule out a lot of unlikely scenarios.

99

General Discussion / Zolo's notebook

« Last post by GlennM on May 06, 2025, 06:27:43 PM »

From Askinadzi's letter

"When we were getting the bodies out, Zolotaryov had a notebook in one hand and a pencil in the other. Ortyukov rushed to it like a madman, and then suddenly wilted, having found nothing, only saying: "I didn't write anything, damn it." Dear Colonel, if you can hear me in the next world, what would you have written if you had been in the 30-degree frost with bare hands for at least 2 hours...

Why A. Zolotaryov held a notebook and a pencil in his hands and didn't write anything down, one can only guess. Probably, there was no time for this, and my hands were probably already frostbitten up to the elbows."

Zolo was frozen with pencil and paper in hand. He wanted to write but could not. Next to him Lyuda and the others. What would he have said? I am guessing a single word would be all he could do. Would he have written goodbye? His name? Perhaps not. What then would be a one word message he would leave for his rescuers? What would any of us write, were we in that situation?

100

General Discussion / Re: Avalanche theory...again

« Last post by Ziljoe on May 06, 2025, 04:49:18 PM »

The thesis of internal conflict is easier to build, since we have no traces of intruders, avalanches, etc.

Can anyone tell us if there are any more serious indications that the internal climate within the group was bad and getting worse? We know that Dubinina was relatively moody, which is also indicated by her diary. This may tell us something and at the same time nothing.
Of course, it can be assumed that even if there were very strong dislikes in the group, they did not want to describe it very much in their personal diaries. Humanly understandable.

Ok, something unlikely happens and the conflict erupts into chaos on that fateful night. Some members of the group leave the tent, probably those who tried to build a den, along with the two who were found under the cedar. Because these last two are very poorly dressed and it is highly likely that only something very terrible forced them to leave the tent. Later, they are followed by those who initially stayed in the tent, including Igor Dyatlov (with Kolmogorova and Slobodin). Later, these three are the ones who try to get back to the tent, but hypothermia becomes fatal. Why did they follow? And why did they underestimate the possibility of hypothermia..? And can something so sadistic (to let some of their comrades leave practically without clothes) really be done by group members among themselves?

This is just one scenario out of endless options. It seems like fantasy to me.
In fact, all the scenarios have been discussed enough on this forum and I have nothing to add to them. The evidence is all we have, but the devil may be hiding in the small details that we will never know.

I tend to overthink it and make it more complicated than it really is because of the two separate events. What I do know is Geologists carry dynamite, and orbs were seen so I work backward from there. I also know that if anyone was slacking in their duties they were not even allowed around the fire to warm up, so I see cruelty in that. And who's to say they wanted their clothes? It could have been still relatively warm and they could have been indigent and said to heck with this.

I Don't think geologists carry dynamite , the explosive expert will be separate from a geologist and they work in parallel. I know two geologists and lived with 5 . Never once did they claim to use explosives or be trained to do so? A hammer maybe...but that's it.

Using explosives in winter at negative temperatures at night would  only add risk to those using explosives for geologists .

The hickers were not reporting any geological features other than taking some samples from north 2 . They  were allowed around the fire because they made one. Who stopped them from being around a fire?