Sequence of events

[Monika]

WAB can I ask.

Yes, of course. For this purpose there is this forum.

Do you think they did build a den or do you think that the den is just  a few tree branches and an incorrect conclusion of the investigation?

They did not build any den. Because it there it is simply impossible. Snow was a little quantity. On a slope of ravine snow very friable also is showered at any excavation. That that was in quality den is a shoddy construction for this purpose, what it is possible was put on all of them wounded men for this purpose that they could to wait when others transfer to a fire which was at a cedar. It was attempt to isolate them from snow while transport of the others.
Any conclusions concerning this den in the investigation description does not exist.

Do you think the injuries of those in the ravine were caused by a fall?

Traumas which were in this group share on two categories: thorax and head injury traumas. Therefore it is possible to tell that thorax traumas are received near to that place where them have found. Close there is " necessary" place. The head injury at Thibo could be received only much above on a slope because near to a place where them have found there are no "necessary" conditions. He transported therefrom.

Do you think they split into 3 separate groups after leaving the tent?

Yes. Only with more probability these groups were formed already below a place where there was a tent. Could be both associations, and partings for various reasons. Three on a slope, most likely in general moved separately. Both separately from each other, and separately from other groups.

WAB do you think the two Yuri built the fire themselves without help from the others?  Witness statement implies it was work of more than two people?  What are your thoughts?

There is no way to find out how many people built the fire. It is only speculation. Those searchers who found them maybe thought that because they were both find at the fire, they also made it together.
And I think the two of them who climbed on a tree did it not to get branches but to try to get a view to the tent. If the tent was exposed to some physical phenomenon accompanied by e.g. lightning, so climbing on a tree makes sense.

[WAB]

...........................

WAB do you think the two Yuri built the fire themselves without help from the others?  Witness statement implies it was work of more than two people?  What are your thoughts?

I cannot make comments on testimony because I do not see who it spoke and that he has told particularly. If to estimate now, my experience in such travel not more low, and much more above, than at people who then that spoke that. Therefore all should be compared in identical conditions. It especially concerns expert estimations.
Work on the device and kindling of a fire has no considerable quantity and work.
If look on operations, that it turns out:
1.It is necessary to make the decision that will do a fire on this place.
2.Look round around and to choose that of what to make a fire. Even if have not reflected on that what on capacity it should be.
3.Get on a tree and to find the necessary branches which can be broken.
4.Break them and dump downwards. Below collect it and quantity to one place.
5.Preliminary (before 4.) choose place for fire and clear away snow how much it probably for the fire making.
6.Plane small chips and/or prepare available paper, rags (or that is another that burns) for fire kindling.
7.Start light fire, gradually increasing the size of burning material.
It is all that it is necessary make. It is necessary to watch only a fire further that it would not go out.
As it is easy see here quite enough two persons and there is no great volume of work.
But is and complicating factors.
1.This process goes in continuous time, and it is necessary to consider and arising intervals between separate necessary actions.
2.External conditions brake and complicate all process. Especially it is influenced by a cold.
However it can be overcome because those who it does have strong will and they are stimulated with desire to survive. Therefore they did not pay attention to any small accompanying traumas.

[WAB]

...................................

There is no way to find out how many people built the fire. It is only speculation. Those searchers who found them maybe thought that because they were both find at the fire, they also made it together.
And I think the two of them who climbed on a tree did it not to get branches but to try to get a view to the tent.

Why it is impossible to learn it? There is such method in a science which modelling is called.
It means that at first it is necessary analyse all theoretically, with the greatest possible approach received of practice. It will be logic modelling which will establish communications and restrictions.
 Further it is possible to calculate necessary time and means for this purpose that all it would be executed. And as to check up logic interrelations. Especially it is necessary what to exclude impossible events and inconsistency. It will be mathematical modelling.
 Then it is possible to spend natural reproduction of all these components of model. It will be physical modelling.
Alternatively it is possible to use expert estimations. The skill level of experts should be much more above than level of the maximum complexity in event.
Probably it is all to understand difficultly to the person which in modelling was not engaged, but it is way with very high probability to receive correct estimation of events.
How you represent it to yourselves? I wrote recently about it in detail why it is impossible physically. (My answer № 25 from October, 24th, 2018, 10:24:24 AM) But the most important thing, ask itself a question: what for it to do? What should they receive as a result? To return to the tent location before when it becomes light, they could not. On February, 02nd 1959 dawn came at 09:26 АМ. By this time they could not live any more because they had so big deficiency of heat that people who did not leave on the nature further own sofa can discuss it only.
Look at that three hours showed about identical time nearby 8:30 АМ. Hours on a hand of the dead person from a cold stop approximately in 1 hour after he has died. Means, they already have died approximately at 7:30 АМ.

If the tent was exposed to some physical phenomenon accompanied by e.g. lightning, so climbing on a tree makes sense.

I have not understood, in what connection here is “to climb on a tree” and “the physical phenomenon” on a tent place? Please decipher this phrase.

[sarapuk]

...................................

There is no way to find out how many people built the fire. It is only speculation. Those searchers who found them maybe thought that because they were both find at the fire, they also made it together.
And I think the two of them who climbed on a tree did it not to get branches but to try to get a view to the tent.

Why it is impossible to learn it? There is such method in a science which modelling is called.
It means that at first it is necessary analyse all theoretically, with the greatest possible approach received of practice. It will be logic modelling which will establish communications and restrictions.
 Further it is possible to calculate necessary time and means for this purpose that all it would be executed. And as to check up logic interrelations. Especially it is necessary what to exclude impossible events and inconsistency. It will be mathematical modelling.
 Then it is possible to spend natural reproduction of all these components of model. It will be physical modelling.
Alternatively it is possible to use expert estimations. The skill level of experts should be much more above than level of the maximum complexity in event.
Probably it is all to understand difficultly to the person which in modelling was not engaged, but it is way with very high probability to receive correct estimation of events.
How you represent it to yourselves? I wrote recently about it in detail why it is impossible physically. (My answer № 25 from October, 24th, 2018, 10:24:24 AM) But the most important thing, ask itself a question: what for it to do? What should they receive as a result? To return to the tent location before when it becomes light, they could not. On February, 02nd 1959 dawn came at 09:26 АМ. By this time they could not live any more because they had so big deficiency of heat that people who did not leave on the nature further own sofa can discuss it only.
Look at that three hours showed about identical time nearby 8:30 АМ. Hours on a hand of the dead person from a cold stop approximately in 1 hour after he has died. Means, they already have died approximately at 7:30 АМ.

If the tent was exposed to some physical phenomenon accompanied by e.g. lightning, so climbing on a tree makes sense.

I have not understood, in what connection here is “to climb on a tree” and “the physical phenomenon” on a tent place? Please decipher this phrase.

Interesting about MODELLING.  But it is still essentially SPECULATION.  PROBABILITY is not a definite YES. So any MODELLING or PROBABILITY to try to solve the DYATLOV CASE must still be considered as SPECULATION unless there is REAL EVIDENCE to back it up.  And as you all know in the DYATLOV CASE there is VERY LITTLE REAL EVIDENCE AVAILABLE.  In fact the best EVIDENCE is MISSING.

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

3. The group decided to head for the forest away from this "something"
and left a torch halfway down to assist their return.

What indications are there that the torch was left to assist their return?

Is it likely that the students deliberately left the torch?

How do we know that such was the case?

[Nigel Evans]

3. The group decided to head for the forest away from this "something"
and left a torch halfway down to assist their return.

What indications are there that the torch was left to assist their return?

Is it likely that the students deliberately left the torch?

How do we know that such was the case?

It's an assumption based on it being found switched on (battery flat of course).
The options seem to be :-1. Left as a beacon for the return.2. Simply dropped and ignored because their mental state wasn't very sensible (nitrous oxide theory, n.b. this fits with wasting matches lighting a fire and climbing and falling out of the cedar.3. Dropped and unable to retrieve as under duress (human/animal/other) n.b. the footsteps indicate an orderly descent with no sign of running? Also they build a fire say 500m from this point which would seem to rule out most forms of duress except being prisoners.
So i like 1 or 2. I don't accept the "at gunpoint" theory so don't consider 3 to be probable.

[cennetkusu]

The order of events can only reasonably be as follows: 1 When the mountaineers were in the forest, they heard some terrible and interesting noises and opened surveillance holes in the tent. And they watched the forest ... But after a while they wanted to escape the forest and take shelter in the mountains .... And go to the mountain and set up the tent there again. It could be around 6 o'clock eri 5. Around 10 o'clock they started to fall asleep çıkar 6.They had removed most of their shoes and their clothes m Even two Yuri were only left in their underwear .... 7. But they couldn't sleep because they were so scared. 8. At the same time, they heard a terrible sound at the door of the tent, and the door of the tent was likely to be opened ..... 9. And because they knew they couldn't handle it, they thought the best choice was to cut the tent away. 10. At the same time, Semyon was able to wear Dubunina's furry jacket and hat, and Dubunina also wore another friend's suit. Semyondu is the oldest and wise one of the most sane ones. And so she was able to keep her composure for a while. And the deaths were between 12:00 and 2:00 am ... So they ran away from the tent at 10:00 to 2 to 4 hours later ......

[cennetkusu]

It was just during the daytime when it was to the west of the mountain of death ..... that's why they opened peephole holes in the tent ...... And after a while they wanted to take shelter on the hillside of the mountain without the evening ... Because the perimeter would be open and any danger would be noticed immediately And in the evening they ate dinner between 18:00 and 19: 00, and they wanted to sleep around 22:00 .... Because they were hoping that this superimposed would not harm them ... Semyon sensed something was going to happen den So she was always dressed and didn't let the camera shut. But after 22:00, this superman attacked them. And they had to cut the tent and run away .... Nobody dared to wear shoes because the shoes were on the entrance side ... Escape from the tent started with someone cutting the tent. And others followed it instead of staying in the tent .... So one or two that cut the tent the person played a trigger role to escape from the tent.

[cennetkusu]

And they came near the cedar tree ..... Their priorities were to burn a big fire ... so they wanted to break the big branches in the cedar tree instead of the little twigs on the ground .... First they would burn the small branches and then burn the big branches. a fire or even fire ... So they would come warming themselves and maybe Superman would not fright and attack ..... Meanwhile, the brave and courageous of the group, Igor and Zina and Rusty wanted to return to the tent to buy shoes and other supplies. The other 4 mountaineers also wanted to make a cave ... Because it was so cold outside ... And the two naked Yuri stayed by the fire ... Because they were the ones who needed the most fire .... Igor and his team turned to the tent and 10 minutes after the first attack Igora was done .... Rustem and Zina ran to the tent ... But after 180 meters caught in Rustem ... Then 150 meters after Zina da yakal moment (distance is less due to both the woman is tired and adorable.) .... Then went to Superman .... And killed the others ..... But the victims did not die instantly .... Maybe it was between 2-5 dakka ...... So they turned around left and right dying ....

[cennetkusu]

How did Superman kill him? Superman probably had the shocking power. and this is already evident from Dubinina and Semyon. I mean, it is not possible to fight him directly ..... but Rüstem fists against him and his arm has hung up in the air with his Igoru ... Although it is known that it will not work, it can still be called the protection reflex. And maybe they broke the big branches in the tree both for fire and to protect themselves. And most likely 2 Yuri were attacked while the fire was still not extinguished. Because if the fire went off, they would go to the cave immediately for the ones that were naked. If they got out of the tent at 22:00 hours, there were deaths between 00:00 and 02:00.

[cennetkusu]

1000 ml of urine was full of urinary bladder. I mean, food's been eaten, but maybe it wasn't really out of fear. 1000ml is too much. This was a constant fear and rush after 18:00. The consequence of this is that Igor and the others were in so much fear and fuss that they did not even take time to pee. And they postponed the peeing .... The explanation is that the young mountaineers are not only afraid of death. fear of this peeing for at least 2 hours

[cennetkusu]

Superman has been with them ever before. He knew them all. He even loved it. And he wanted to be friends with them and Dubin with them .... And he entered into with them communicated .... But this communication did not come to a conclusion. They flipped him off without knowing .... They didn't want to be friends or lovers ... But they made their ends ... Superman wanted to take revenge on them ... And he took ... But perhaps God has forgiven them ... He has taken them to Paradise. Amen ...

[sarapuk]

   cennetkusu.  You could say all that you have said in ONE POST. You  are obviously pushing the PARANORMAL THEORY.  But where is the substance  !  ?

[Loose}{Cannon]

1000 ml of urine was full of urinary bladder. I mean, food's been eaten, but maybe it wasn't really out of fear. 1000ml is too much. This was a constant fear and rush after 18:00. The consequence of this is that Igor and the others were in so much fear and fuss that they did not even take time to pee. And they postponed the peeing .... The explanation is that the young mountaineers are not only afraid of death. fear of this peeing for at least 2 hours

Nah...  if something is that frightening, you just piss yourself.   Ever heard the saying 'scared the piss outta me'?   I never heard the term 'scared me into holding my piss'.   

Know what I'm saying?   

1000ml is alot though.... I'll give you that.  For all I know, the body still produces urin after death, or for some scientific reason the volume increases?   

[Nigel Evans]

1000 ml of urine was full of urinary bladder. I mean, food's been eaten, but maybe it wasn't really out of fear. 1000ml is too much. This was a constant fear and rush after 18:00. The consequence of this is that Igor and the others were in so much fear and fuss that they did not even take time to pee. And they postponed the peeing .... The explanation is that the young mountaineers are not only afraid of death. fear of this peeing for at least 2 hours

Nah...  if something is that frightening, you just piss yourself.   Ever heard the saying 'scared the piss outta me'?   I never heard the term 'scared me into holding my piss'.   

Know what I'm saying?   

1000ml is alot though.... I'll give you that.  For all I know, the body still produces urin after death, or for some scientific reason the volume increases?

A full bladder is apparently a common feature of death by hypothermia. In order to conserve heat the body constricts blood flow to the limbs. This increases the volume of blood in the trunk and hence the pressure. The kidneys (which filter the blood) respond by dumping excess fluid into the bladder. At this stage the victims are losing consciousness and nerve function and don't relieve themselves.

It is the lack of full bladders in most of the DP corpses that suggests that they did not die of hypothermia. It maybe that only Igor did.

[cennetkusu]

It is very clear and clear that this is not a normal event ..... A paranormal event is definitely ..... There is no other explanation ..... Why did the climbers first escape from the tent ??? There can only be two explanations of this .... 1. Superman attack 2. Staying in the tent must have disturbed them very much .... And they could not stand and went down to the forest ...... Or both together ... So before the sounds of the tent and they saw the images. Meanwhile, the band's oldest and cool-blooded Semyon hurriedly wore the poncho of Dubunina and stepped out with Alexandan. And finally the superman attacked the tent. (Or the voices got too extreme and they couldn't stand and went down to the forest.) I think everyone realized that something will happen in the last moments. And when they were in the tent they accidentally wore each other's clothes. but they didn't have time to wear boots. I don't think it's possible to wear it outside. Two Yuris were maybe asleep and were forced to leave the tent naked.

[cennetkusu]

The climbers had not guessed that this being could kill themselves until the last time ..... because they would not go back to the tent if they had predicted it would. And they'd run away. Or dig up a cave, collectively stay there. And they used to fire there. Three was never divided. I think they all came together to the cedar tree and lit a big fire to heat the two Yuris. And they dug 75 meters ahead. Because it's not possible to dig in without a light .... and the lighthouse is a possible line. But maybe they could have dug up a piece of fire. Because only 4 seats were made. That's just a proof that there are only four people going.

[cennetkusu]

There are about 150 meters between the group returning to the tent. 150 meters up -15 degrees uphill how many dakkada taken? If it is used, it can fall down to 2 minutes. I mean, Superman can kill climbers for about 2 minutes. It wasn't instantaneous lard And suddenly they didn't die med They could move for a second. So they were all found in different ways. They must have made a sound when they were dying: Because body shapes are expressing it al They do not fist the hand of Rust and take Zian to the position of the fetus and protect herself, and they are not on the bottom of the mountaineers in the snow cave. They're scattered around ... It seems that they have never had time to sit there .... It means that those four climbers were near the fire and warming up. And when the fire started to fade, they thought of making a cave in the snow .... And the other 3 mountaineers wanted to go back to the tent and take the boots and other items ... but this was after the division !!!

[sarapuk]

1000 ml of urine was full of urinary bladder. I mean, food's been eaten, but maybe it wasn't really out of fear. 1000ml is too much. This was a constant fear and rush after 18:00. The consequence of this is that Igor and the others were in so much fear and fuss that they did not even take time to pee. And they postponed the peeing .... The explanation is that the young mountaineers are not only afraid of death. fear of this peeing for at least 2 hours

Nah...  if something is that frightening, you just piss yourself.   Ever heard the saying 'scared the piss outta me'?   I never heard the term 'scared me into holding my piss'.   

Know what I'm saying?   

1000ml is alot though.... I'll give you that.  For all I know, the body still produces urin after death, or for some scientific reason the volume increases?

A full bladder is apparently a common feature of death by hypothermia. In order to conserve heat the body constricts blood flow to the limbs. This increases the volume of blood in the trunk and hence the pressure. The kidneys (which filter the blood) respond by dumping excess fluid into the bladder. At this stage the victims are losing consciousness and nerve function and don't relieve themselves.

It is the lack of full bladders in most of the DP corpses that suggests that they did not die of hypothermia. It maybe that only Igor did.

Nice bit of deduction Nigel.  It helps to show that all or most of the Dyatlov Group possibly died or came close to death before the severe cold had the final say.

[cennetkusu]

Apparently it was their end of division ..... Igor found 300 meters away from the tent. So it's about 5 dakka ..... It's not possible to prepare a seat (it is 75 meters away) scrape a cave of 4 climbers in 5 dakka (?) So before 4 climbers left to dig a cave in the snow. Then the other 3 climbers decided to go back to the tent for two Yuri ... because they would die if they didn't. And they put themselves at risk. Because they didn't know if Superman would kill themselves. Maybe these three climbers never left the fire. When Superman attacked them, they fled to the mountain. And they were caught one by one. Because we need four minutes to kill two Yurini. That's 4 minutes, Igor went 300 meters away ... It makes more sense. Because the people who escaped from the tent despite the severe cold never return to the tent ...... But they may have put themselves at risk for their friends ....

[cennetkusu]

1000 ml of urine was full of urinary bladder. I mean, food's been eaten, but maybe it wasn't really out of fear. 1000ml is too much. This was a constant fear and rush after 18:00. The consequence of this is that Igor and the others were in so much fear and fuss that they did not even take time to pee. And they postponed the peeing .... The explanation is that the young mountaineers are not only afraid of death. fear of this peeing for at least 2 hours

Nah...  if something is that frightening, you just piss yourself.   Ever heard the saying 'scared the piss outta me'?   I never heard the term 'scared me into holding my piss'.   

Know what I'm saying?   

1000ml is alot though.... I'll give you that.  For all I know, the body still produces urin after death, or for some scientific reason the volume increases?

People delays or forget peeing in a great fear. You should know that .... 1000ml is not possible to be too much .... after death ....

[Star man]

1000 ml of urine was full of urinary bladder. I mean, food's been eaten, but maybe it wasn't really out of fear. 1000ml is too much. This was a constant fear and rush after 18:00. The consequence of this is that Igor and the others were in so much fear and fuss that they did not even take time to pee. And they postponed the peeing .... The explanation is that the young mountaineers are not only afraid of death. fear of this peeing for at least 2 hours

Nah...  if something is that frightening, you just piss yourself.   Ever heard the saying 'scared the piss outta me'?   I never heard the term 'scared me into holding my piss'.   

Know what I'm saying?   

1000ml is alot though.... I'll give you that.  For all I know, the body still produces urin after death, or for some scientific reason the volume increases?

A full bladder is apparently a common feature of death by hypothermia. In order to conserve heat the body constricts blood flow to the limbs. This increases the volume of blood in the trunk and hence the pressure. The kidneys (which filter the blood) respond by dumping excess fluid into the bladder. At this stage the victims are losing consciousness and nerve function and don't relieve themselves.

It is the lack of full bladders in most of the DP corpses that suggests that they did not die of hypothermia. It maybe that only Igor did.

Yes. Lack of full bladders.  This is probably because most of them may have died from hypoxia and nitrogen dioxide poisoning.

[Nigel Evans]

Yes. Lack of full bladders.  This is probably because most of them may have died from hypoxia and nitrogen dioxide poisoning.

Not most, the ravine event killed 5 if you include Rustem who died of internal bleeding. The NO2 would not be a problem below 20C so not a problem in the forest. It's effects would be localised to the tent area, perhaps extending down the mountain as far as the persistent footsteps. However N2O if present would continue to be a problem in the forest.

[Star man]

Yes. Lack of full bladders.  This is probably because most of them may have died from hypoxia and nitrogen dioxide poisoning.

Not most, the ravine event killed 5 if you include Rustem who died of internal bleeding. The NO2 would not be a problem below 20C so not a problem in the forest. It's effects would be localised to the tent area, perhaps extending down the mountain as far as the persistent footsteps. However N2O if present would continue to be a problem in the forest.

Doesn’t nitrogen dioxide have a delayed effect though.

The latest update of my theory suggests that there may have been a toxic cloud of nitrogen dioxide up to 50 square km that forced them to leave the camp and head down the slope.  They climb the cedar to get to higher position to escape the cloud, but Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo succumb and lose consciousness and fall out of the cedar tree.

[Loose}{Cannon]

What about carbon dioxide, or methanol? 

[Nigel Evans]

Yes. Lack of full bladders.  This is probably because most of them may have died from hypoxia and nitrogen dioxide poisoning.

Not most, the ravine event killed 5 if you include Rustem who died of internal bleeding. The NO2 would not be a problem below 20C so not a problem in the forest. It's effects would be localised to the tent area, perhaps extending down the mountain as far as the persistent footsteps. However N2O if present would continue to be a problem in the forest.

Doesn’t nitrogen dioxide have a delayed effect though.

The latest update of my theory suggests that there may have been a toxic cloud of nitrogen dioxide up to 50 square km that forced them to leave the camp and head down the slope.  They climb the cedar to get to higher position to escape the cloud, but Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo succumb and lose consciousness and fall out of the cedar tree.

Yes the effect is delayed but my theory is that Yuri D gets the worse exposure at the tent which kills him relatively quickly. The others are impaired but can function perhaps with laboured breathing (enlarged aortas) until attempting to return to the tent at which point they discover they are unable.
Your theory would require the temperature to be above 21C across 50 square km which i think is somewhat unlikely.

I prefer the idea that although N2O is heavier than air it would be warm and hence lighter than the cold air within the trees. Hence it would travel across the treetops towards the ravine. In climbing the tree YuriK would have ascended into the N2O layer and suffered a total loss of limb control. Falling badly getting concussed with his leg in the fire. After the death of the 2 Yuris the group abandon the fire and elect for the ravine which curiously isn't as cold.

[Nigel Evans]

What about carbon dioxide, or methanol?

Give us your theory...

[Loose}{Cannon]

What about carbon dioxide, or methanol?

Give us your theory...

No theory, just possibilities.   C02 has burped up out of the ground and killed plenty of people. 






Then of course we know oil exploration in the area was top priority for the Kremlin at the time.  The very helicopter that was dispatched to aid in the search and rescue came from a unit that transported methanol to small traveling oil exploration rigs.  They were specifically ordered/permitted to dump their cargo in non populated areas if an emergency requires it. 

[cennetkusu]

I don't think this is the way the two Yurin were killed ..... So they were moved after death ... I think that the superman who killed them did not do it ..... Someone from the locals saw them there. And they put them side by side and put them in a proper shape. Because their bodies were in the clear. And it was seen from the outside. 25 days is a very long time. Probably the hunters from the locals saw two Yuris.

[cennetkusu]

The group didn't expect the super to attack the tent until the last moment. Because two Yuri were naked. That means the band is about to go to bed .... Semyon sensed that something would happen. And he chose to stay dressed. And he never took the camera off. And the superman must be seeing and hearing what's going on in the tent. And he must have frightened the band before they attacked the tent. Because the group immediately after the attack, the tent is cut without thinking, and they run away to the forest !!! I think it must be different and horrendous noises ..... These voices were so influenced that the young people lost themselves ... And they must have felt helpless and weak ... Or there is no point in running away from their tent.