State order for liquidation. Anna Russian's version.(c)

[anna_pycckux]

The party authorities were aware of the death of tourists from the first days. This is evidenced by the investigators and prosecutors who dealt with this case. Moreover, an employee of the regional committee Ermash told Kolevatov's sister that tourists who were not found could live no more than 1.5–2 hours after the death of those found.
Yu. Kuntsevich: the secret was that party officials were tied up and did not want to give up their accomplices. Investigator Korotaev, referring to Lev Ivanov: An irresistible force is a state machine. THE STATE KILLED THEM.

[anna_pycckux]

Communist congresses and related events.
 I studied the history of Communist congresses and found out: by chance or not, but congresses were often accompanied by tragic events (I quote this in abbreviations):
1905, April, the 3rd Congress of the CPSU is taking place.
In January 1905, a peaceful march of workers was shot in Petrograd (St. Petersburg).

The Congress of 1918, March.
On February 18, 1918, the shooting of a church procession in Tula.

1925 – 14th Congress from December 18 to 31
On December 28, 1925, the famous poet Sergei Yesenin was killed (he was 30 years old).

Next: The Congresses of 1934 and 1939 – the time of the Great Terror. In 1937 and 38 alone, 1,344,923 people were convicted for political reasons, 681,692 of them were sentenced to capital punishment… It is unknown how many died from starvation, torture and unbearable conditions.
The congresses of 1952 and 1956 were also accompanied by bloody tragedies.

1959, the 21st Congress - the death of the Dyatlov group. The campaign was organized in honor of the 21st Congress of the CPSU.

[Ziljoe]

Many congresses are accompanied by tragic events by the nature of their meaning and the fact that serious conflicts need resolution . Unfortunately they are hotspots for tragic events, especially where the established authority is being challenged by the masses.

They are in the most part formal and will have representation from several groups, parties, unions , religious leaders and so on. They can easily escalate .

Such things have happened in the west in the past and still do to this day, the UK government has changed the law on groups or protesters gathering to try and avoid such large groups.

The G8 summit gets lots of  public protesters against capitalism for example.

Throw in , sexual freedom, famine, womens rights , religion, workers rights, taxes etc, then there's always the potential for tragic events, historically the UK is littered with them.

I can't see the link to a group of hikers doing their pass time to get a certificate and see how this would be a threat to any soviet faction/union/ party whatsoever that some authority would order their deaths during the 21st anniversary.

It's in the middle of winter, several other groups of hikers are doing the same , there's Mansi roaming and moving throughout the trails making their living.

I believe it's well known that many tourist trips ended in injuries or fatalities, Dyatlov pass is not unique in this regard.

I do not see what message could  be given if they were killed, what would be achieved by their murder ? They are not storming the winter palace with some ideologies, they are in the middle of nowhere, talking stories of love and music, collecting stones and taking photos . They were out of the way of any potential challenge to ,or celebration of, the 21st Congress . 

[anna_pycckux]

They were out of the way of any potential challenge to ,or celebration of, the 21st Congress .

I have already written about this many times: DYATLOV'S GROUP WAS KILLED ON A FALSE DENUNCIATION.
Yuri Yudin, quote (interview with A. Nechaev):
- ..The UPI trade union committee was collecting information about Dyatlov's group that they were going to flee abroad..
- When was the information collected?
 - When I was studying.

B. Slobtsov in the TV program.
- When we were going to search, Kirilenko told us: look for them, maybe you will find how they escaped to Norway undressed.
Escaping abroad in 59 was equated to high treason and was punishable by death.

[Ziljoe]

Yes, you have written about this many times. That still does not make it a fact.

How does Yuri Yudin know this? Yuri changes his mind several times( like the rest of us) .

As far as I can find , these denunciations only appear later in the Dyatlov story and are pure speculation by some of those involved. I think Kirilenko comment is just the sarcasm and his point is not to be so stupid to suggest they are trying to escape. He's basically saying how stupid and impractical  the thought of them escaping is by the distance and clothing.

 

[GlennM]

Considering that none were rocket scientists in the first place...

[anna_pycckux]

Откуда Юрий Юдин знает об этом? Юрий несколько раз меняет свое мнение (как и все мы) .
As far as I can find , these denunciations only appear later in the Dyatlov story and are pure speculation by some of those involved. I think Kirilenko comment is just the sarcasm and his point is not to be so stupid to suggest they are trying to escape. He's basically saying how stupid and impractical  the thought of them escaping is by the distance and clothing.

1. I'm not changing my mind.
2. Yu.Yudin knew about this from the students. He was warned by students from the trade union committee. He was also told that the trade union committee was protecting him. Yudin was protected because he was quiet, accommodating, non-confrontational and helpful.
3. Yu. Yudin did not change his mind when he spoke about denunciations of Dyatlov's group. This is known from various interviews: A. Nechaev, journalists of the KP newspaper, Maya Piskareva.
4. Yes, Kirilenko was ironic and ridiculed when he talked about the escape of tourists to Norway. No one would have thought of that! And Kirilenko thought of it! From where? From denunciations!
5. V.M. Askenaji (video interview): When I was going to search, I was called to the UPI party committee and told: "See if there are any tracks leading abroad."
MY VERSION CONTAINS TESTIMONIES FROM ONLY THE MOST IMPORTANT PEOPLE ASSOCIATED WITH THIS EVENT.

[Ziljoe]

I'm not trying to make you change your mind.

You say this yourself " Perhaps a criminal case was initiated against the guys on the basis of denunciations." . You speculate.

So why did none of these other students come forward years later? Why didn't they think that Yudin was going to try and escape? Why risk telling him and none of the others?

The various interviews come from speculation after the Dyatlov pass becomes popularised in media and everyone reads the released material of each other.

It was already a half mixed puddle before everyone started getting interviewed and becoming mildly famous. The information we now have is extremely muddy.

From what I understand, Kirilenko did not think they escaped or were even trying to, kirilenko was ridiculing those that suggested that they tried to escape.

V.M. Askenaji , says it, or so you say. It is perhaps through this statement that kirilenko ridicules who ever suggests it.

I do not know if it's actual Russian grammar ,humour or even a translation error but..."See if there are any tracks leading abroad"

Should it perhaps be , signs or indications leading abroad instead of tracks? .

My thinking is no one even thought that they would escape from the Urals , I'm sure you said that yourself Anna. They are speculating and grabbing at straws as the bodies are missing. It is at that point they may think that some of them tried to escape.

It's gossip, after the event. The denunciations, if they happened, probably started after they did not return as expected.

Remember, all the witnesses, or people at the time and at the earliest statements, speculate as we do. They all suggested, avalanche, hurricane, murder by prisoners, murder by Mansi and rockets in the sky. No one could work it out in 1959, but no one really challenged it at the time, it was closed and they moved on. Since then, the case has been dug up , opened and thrown to the public eye as a riddle that can't be solved.

It makes no sense to kill them on a cold hill and not serve as a warning to others . 

[GlennM]

What I percieve is that the group was not cohesive. The diaries speak to fanciful ideals, sexual tension, petty thievery, pouting uncomfortable sleeping positions and petty punishments. I understand that when a decision was made to get an early start, nobody wanted to get out of bed. Nobody wanted to mend the torn tent. I sense that the women in the group were assertive in their independence. Nine people in a tent divided by a curtain? That is quite a hardship for 7 men. Some who carried romantic photos and suppressed urges. Even in death the women were physically apart from the men.

Now, figure in the weather. The hikers rode most of the way and only started to really work after leaving the last camp. The uphill trek was exhausting and the river was too brittle for skiing. Backtracking only leads to more fatigue and frustration. Tired bodies make for tired minds and poor decision making.

It would not suprise me to believe that drama in the tent caused them all to exit and stomp down to the woods. Who needs assasins when you have hormones?

[anna_pycckux]

I do not know if it's actual Russian grammar ,humour or even a translation error but..."See if there are any tracks leading abroad"  .

There is no translation error here. Askenaji said exactly that: "FOOTPRINTS"

The whole point of the mystery of Dyatlov Pass is that we, researchers, are mostly educated and logically thinking people. We cannot explain the actions and reasoning of illiterate and stupid party apparatchiks. Do not forget that illiterate villagers were in power. (Khrushchev could not read and write until his old age). It is pointless to look for logic in their actions. Their mistakes were corrected by the KGB, but how were they corrected? They messed up the case even more. THIS IS THE WHOLE MYSTERY OF THE DYATLOV PASS.

[anna_pycckux]

Who needs assasins when you have hormones?

You can't understand the Russian guys of the 50s. They were fearless, strong-willed, able to keep their instincts under control. I'm sure most of them were virgins.

[Ziljoe]

I do not know if it's actual Russian grammar ,humour or even a translation error but..."See if there are any tracks leading abroad"  .

There is no translation error here. Askenaji said exactly that: "FOOTPRINTS"

The whole point of the mystery of Dyatlov Pass is that we, researchers, are mostly educated and logically thinking people. We cannot explain the actions and reasoning of illiterate and stupid party apparatchiks. Do not forget that illiterate villagers were in power. (Khrushchev could not read and write until his old age). It is pointless to look for logic in their actions. Their mistakes were corrected by the KGB, but how were they corrected? They messed up the case even more. THIS IS THE WHOLE MYSTERY OF THE DYATLOV PASS.

Could I have more of the quote, other than "footprints" . No one is going to follow footprints from the middle of Russia to a boarder.

Educated people don't always think logically unfortunately.

The point I'm trying understand, is when we're these denunciations made. What is the timeline ?

If the KGB were involved after Dyatlov went missing and were asking questions in the timeframe , let's say, after the 12th of February, then that makes sense. The 21st Congress is from the 27th January to the 5 th of February.

If the KGB were asking questions before they even started their hike and Yuri Yudin knew, why did he not say anything, why even start the hike and just say his back was playing up before?

It's evident that there was no intention by the DP9 to leave the Soviet Union, at least during this hike. Could it be, that these statements by witnesses are a bit muddled up ?.

For example, if some of my friends went missing , I would expect questions from the police. If I was their teacher, leader or friend, I would expect background questions along the line of, did they take drugs, was there money problems, were there tensions etc etc.

Depending on the skills of those asking questions, ( this includes KGB, the investigators at the time, friends, and following researchers over the last 60 years) it can paint a very inaccurate picture . I think it's important that we are accurate as to when some of the evidence appeared.

[anna_pycckux]

It's evident that there was no intention by the DP9 to leave the Soviet Union, at least during this hike. Could it be, that these statements by witnesses are a bit muddled up ?.

You didn't understand anything in my version.. These are not witness statements, but denunciations. FALSE denunciations in order to destroy Dyatlov and his friends.. I won't say it again. Check out my version from page 1.

[anna_pycckux]

The point I'm trying understand, is when we're these denunciations made. What is the timeline ?

Read the answer 243. Yu Yudin answers: the denunciations were written by the UPI Trade Union Committee during the students' studies.

[Ziljoe]

It's evident that there was no intention by the DP9 to leave the Soviet Union, at least during this hike. Could it be, that these statements by witnesses are a bit muddled up ?.

You didn't understand anything in my version.. These are not witness statements, but denunciations. FALSE denunciations in order to destroy Dyatlov and his friends.. I won't say it again. Check out my version from page 1.

Agree, but when and where did the denunciations start. Were the denunciations documented before they the incident? Or is it Yudin that says that there were denunciations in hindsight? 

[anna_pycckux]

From a telephone conversation with V. Askinazdi:
Denunciations of all students were submitted to UPI.
My answer:
I am sure that such terrible and false denunciations about the impending flight abroad were written for some reason only on Dyatlov's group.
You can read more about the situation at UPI and the work of special services at UPI here (section 2):
https://dyatlovpass.com/askinadzi-letters-2

[anna_pycckux]

An appeal to the 2024 conference dedicated to the 65th anniversary of the Dyatlov Pass tragedy.

My version sounds like a government liquidation order or died on a false denunciation. We can also say this: the Sverdlovsk Regional Committee of the CPSU in the fight against free-thinking Komsomol members.

[Ziljoe]

Hi Anna,

Can you post the transcript of your videos?
For me it's easy to translate written Russian language to English although there might be errors but in video , you tube or otherwise, it's next to impossible.

I appreciate the false denunciation concept but I would be interested in understanding the  evidence. I think the forum would love to engage in debate, unfortunately, for me at least , it's difficult to understand.

[anna_pycckux]

    Unfortunately, I cannot translate the entire video clip and all the documents that it contains. I can only say that I have given strong evidence-based arguments.

[GlennM]

 Yuden's politics could have gotten him in trouble, but they didnt. If he did get in trouble, he would be identified as an enemy of the State and linked to the defecting hikers. None of this happened. Seems strange to me.

[anna_pycckux]

Yuden's politics could have gotten him in trouble, but they didnt. If he did get in trouble, he would be identified as an enemy of the State and linked to the defecting hikers. None of this happened. Seems strange to me.

Yudin's policy was silence. He started talking about the tragedy in the early 90s, when freedom of speech appeared in the country.
This screenshot says:
THE BRIDE OF THE PARTICIPANT OF THE DYATLOV CAMPAIGN: "EVERYONE WHO KNEW THE TRUTH WAS GAGGED"

[GlennM]

Still, it seems peculiar that highly educated, loyal and productive Soviet youth, some with influential parents would be targeted at a time when Khrushchev was praising youth and sport. Just because hiking in the back woods is not Olympic competition,  I see no reason their lives should be forfeit. They were all in many ways model Soviets.

[anna_pycckux]

I see no reason their lives should be forfeit. They were all in many ways model Soviets.

If you had lived in Russia in the 50s, the reasons would have been obvious to you. You just need to know the history, to know what "Stalinism" is, when the best of the best were destroyed by false denunciations. After Stalin, the same Stalinists with Stalinist methods of government remained in power in the country.

[Ziljoe]

I see no reason their lives should be forfeit. They were all in many ways model Soviets.

If you had lived in Russia in the 50s, the reasons would have been obvious to you. You just need to know the history, to know what "Stalinism" is, when the best of the best were destroyed by false denunciations. After Stalin, the same Stalinists with Stalinist methods of government remained in power in the country.

I don't think anyone here would argue there was paranoia within factions in the Soviet Union and wrong done.

But I would add caution to any assumptions that unexplained deaths automatically fall into the catagory of it was planned murder or otherwise.

There are patterns to tourists in Russia falling into trouble on many hikes or rafting, there were also perhaps inadequate planning to ensure the best resources were given to group, also the group seemed confident in their own abilities. This happens time and time again in many countries.

It would be better to take a neutral position and consider the state may being involved rather than "they were" , because " that's what they do!" .

As Glenn states, there is no reason their lives should be forfeit, even with denunciations ?. They weren't leaving the country from the Urals as I believe was one of the claims, it was only after they had not returned that it was suggested that they may have tried to leave to another country.

It sounds like speculation, along with , UFOs, rockets, military  , hurricanes and Mansi. I think all the searcher's/ investigators speculated at the time and then repeated these stories later when the Dyatlov pass came back into the media attention.

It seems many of our debates revolve around what witnesses "thought" and then have been accepted as fact, when in fact it was just gossip.

[GlennM]

In my limited understanding, Stalin did not like criticism. He thought that thinking prople were likely to find fault with him. By eliminating the best of the best, he believed he could control it. Similarly, Hitler and the Nazi's thought that by eliminating physically and mentally inferior Germans,  then others, the Germanic race would be purified. There were two fundamental flaws in that reasoning. First, it was a misunderstanding of Darwinism. Secondly, the persecuters did not understand Mendelian genetics and lethal recessives. Similarly, Stalin could never genetically dumb down the Russian population through pogroms.

In the post Stalinist environment that the DP9 lived and died in,  there  was a distinct advantage to being smart, this for the good of the nation. There was also an emphasis on physical perfection in olympians. Masters of Sport seems to be a way of achieving an excellence in physical challenges while simultaneously being in an occupation which advances the Soviet. This is what I believe the DP9 were all about ( Zolo excepted).  Therefore, it makes absolutely no rational sense to suppose that "old school Stalinists" are going to tramp around in the snow 40 miles from anywhere,  looking for some innocent university upperclassmen to kill. There was most certainly no liquidation order. There was certainly no liquidation of the DP9. What there was instead was a prolonged effort to find and deal with the residue of an unexpected tragedy.  After all, the Blinov group didn't get assassinated and they were also fresh meat.

[anna_pycckux]

In the post Stalinist environment that the DP9 lived and died in,  there  was a distinct advantage to being smart, this for the good of the nation.

You are reasoning correctly and logically. Unfortunately, the illiterate communists who were in power were sometimes far from logic and common sense. The best of the best, and even athletic, strong–willed, intelligent, free-thinking - were a threat to the Stalinist-Khrushchev system. Characteristics of Kirilenko, the head of the regional committee: illiterate, bulldozer-type, bonecrusher, vindictive, etc. (taken from books and newspaper

[anna_pycckux]

It seems many of our debates revolve around what witnesses "thought" and then have been accepted as fact, when in fact it was just gossip.

My version is based on documents, on such witnesses as Yu. Yudin, B. Slobtsov, V. Askenazi, etc. - all these are authoritative personalities, but not gossips.

[Ziljoe]

It seems many of our debates revolve around what witnesses "thought" and then have been accepted as fact, when in fact it was just gossip.

My version is based on documents, on such witnesses as Yu. Yudin, B. Slobtsov, V. Askenazi, etc. - all these are authoritative personalities, but not gossips.

Why are they authorities, what documents, are you talking about statements , which statements, when and what was said. You wrote a book , evidence your proof? 

[anna_pycckux]

Why are they authorities, what documents, are you talking about statements , which statements, when and what was said. You wrote a book , evidence your proof?

All the details are in my book. If you need a book, I'll send it. Please provide your email address. I can send a paper or electronic version.

[GlennM]

Anna demonstrates generosity and committment by offering her book. That is a good thing. If the book is Russian, it can be thought to serve Anna's claim that it takes one to know one, and non Russians are poorly equipped to know or understand the language, the hidden meanings and the social/political climate going into the 1960's in Soviet Russia.

I feel the hikers died from natural causes, Anna disputes this. Both points of view are logical. Logic is not truth. We could both be wrong, but I do not believe we can both be right.

Thank you Anna for offering Ziljoe a deep dive into your point of view.