Fall from tree

[GlennM]

Those branches! Only a madman would stomp on them or hang underneath to break one off. Those are big! Having one or two men up in a tree bouncing and pulling on living wood, touches the limit of credulity. Further, if the hikers walked to the forest, as evidenced by prints in,snow, they were rational people.,Climb up a tree and do gymnastics? A,great way to hurt your favorite muscle...and no doctor around.

[Почемучка]

I honestly haven't a clue what you're trying to communicate. Please say what mean. I'm fed up of the guessing game.

1) По все видимости - каждый из нас сталкивается с неточностями перевода.
2) Я давала Вам ссылку на свою версию и мы с Вами обсуждали триггер-событие, с которого началась гибель группы Дятлова. Что Вы поняли из моих объяснений?

1) Apparently - each of us is faced with translation inaccuracies.
2) I gave you a link to my version and we discussed the trigger event that started the death of the Dyatlov group. What did you understand from my explanations?

[Почемучка]

Those branches! Only a madman would stomp on them or hang underneath to break one off. Those are big! Having one or two men up in a tree bouncing and pulling on living wood, touches the limit of credulity. Further, if the hikers walked to the forest, as evidenced by prints in,snow, they were rational people.,Climb up a tree and do gymnastics? A,great way to hurt your favorite muscle...and no doctor around.

Очень здравомысляще. Дров поблизости было достаточно - чтоб не лазать за ними на кедр. А вот если тающий снег с веток - заливает с трудом разведенный костер, то тогда дать бой противным лишним веткам - имеет смысл. Я это пишу вроде как в пятый раз. Интересно - когда услышат...

Very sane. There was enough firewood nearby - so as not to climb the cedar for them. But if the melting snow from the branches floods the fire with difficulty, then it makes sense to give battle to the nasty extra branches. I am writing this for the fifth time. Interesting - when they hear ...

[Почемучка]

Про находку гильз и патронов от ракетниц
About finding shells and cartridges from rocket launchers
https://ura.news/news/1052259819

«У кедра, где тогда нашли тела двух Юр — Кривонищенко и Дорошенко, мы откопали два старых советских сигнальных патрона, — рассказал „URA.Ru“ руководитель исследователей. — Обнаружили их металлодетектором, откапывали уже лопатами. Этим подтверждается, что это то самое место: видимо, когда нашли их тела, отстреляли две ракеты».

“Near the cedar, where the bodies of two Yurs, Krivonischenko and Doroshenko, were then found, we dug up two old Soviet signal cartridges,” the head of the researchers told URA.Ru. - We found them with a metal detector, they dug them out with shovels. This confirms that this is the same place: apparently, when their bodies were found, two rockets were fired.”

Эта информация совершенно стыкуется с описанием проведения поисков. Поисковики пользовались ракетницами и это закреплено в Уголовном Деле. Они запрашивают в радиограммах завоза патронов для ракетниц. Мало того - у них там было и другое оружие. И они безусловно - иногда стреляли из него. Это тоже отражено в материалах дела.

This information fits perfectly with the description of the search. The search engines used rocket launchers and this is enshrined in the Criminal Case. They request in the radiograms the delivery of cartridges for rocket launchers. Not only that, they also had other weapons there. And they certainly - sometimes fired from it. This is also reflected in the case file.

[Почемучка]

Вот про гильзы от пуль
http://www.mountain.ru/article/article_display1.php?article_id=6389&sort=rate_article

В «зоне палатки» Шура также нашёл старый алюминиевый котелок, помятый камнями. И подозрительно «свежую» ещё блестящую пулю калибра 7,62 с 6-ю нарезами. В прессе и на ТВ появились сообщения, что пуля – от «пулемёта Калашникова», хотя «пулемёт Калашникова» появился только в 1961 году, а в 1959-м его не было. По книге «Материальная часть стрелкового оружия» издания 1959 года (пензенского высшего артиллерийского инженерного училища) я установил, что конструкция хвостовика (цилиндрический, без трассера) и наконечника этой пули (наконечник расширяющееся охотничьей пули) не соответствует боевым пулям для АКМ, СКС и пулемёта Дегтярёва, которые в 1959 г. применялись в войсках. Число нарезов (6) также не соответствует числу нарезов (4) отечественного боевого и охотничьего оружия этого калибра. Поэтому ясно, что пуля эта – от какого-то импортного охотничьего карабина. По тому, как она сохранилась и не повредилась от удара о камни, ясно, что ею выстрелили вверх (для сигнала, салюта, по птице и т.п.), и она упала на излёте меж камней через слой мха с небольшой скоростью. Поэтому как-то связывать эту пулю с Трагедией 1959 года неправомерно. А сообщения и выводы о каких-то находках надо прежде проверить на достоверность, чем «бросать» в СМИ.
Надо понимать, что вообще все такие «артефакты» без проверки того, откуда, когда и как они произошли, - это никакие не улики, не доказательства и не «исторические экспонаты». Вот когда точно установлено происхождение, возраст вещи и история её возникновения и появления в данном месте, и её связь с конкретными событиями, - вот только тогда эта вещь может быть и «уликой», и «доказательством», и «историческим экспонатом» для экспозиции.

In the "tent zone" Shura also found an old aluminum pot dented with stones. And a suspiciously "fresh" still shiny bullet of 7.62 caliber with 6 grooves.

Кедр - сильно ниже и сильно в стороне.
Cedar - much lower and much to the side.

[Почемучка]

Не прицепилась фотка пули и нельзя редактировать. Перевести тоже все не успела. Переводите - сами.
Вот фото ссылкою
The photo of the bullet did not attach and cannot be edited. I didn't manage to translate everything either. Translate yourself.
Here is a photo link
http://www.mountain.ru/article/article_img/6389/f_24.jpg
http://www.mountain.ru/article/article_img/6389/f_25.jpg

То что на перевале постоянно стреляли - это не секрет. Даже группа Якименко - давала салют из ружья. Так делали и другие группы, кто брал оружие. Это есть описанием в их отчетах.
The fact that they were constantly shooting at the pass is not a secret. Even Yakimenko's group - gave a salute from a gun. So did other groups who took up arms. This is the description in their reports.

[Почемучка]

У меня просьба ко всем, кто находит аргументы Аннушки Русских - интересными. Проверяйте и требуйте ссылки.
Вам предоставят фрагмент текста картинкой так - что будет похоже на правду. Но это - правдою не будет.
Как с этими гильзами, которые не у кедра, а на месте палатки. И с этими патронами от ракетниц, которым очень активно пользовались во время поисков - сами поисковики. Даже журналист Г.К.Григорьев за свое недолгое присутствие на поисках - вспоминает про выстрелы из ракетниц.

На сим раскланиваюсь и не поминайте лихом.

I have a request to everyone who finds Annushka Russkikh's arguments interesting. Check and request links.
You will be provided with a piece of text as a picture so that it will look like the truth. But this will not be true.
As with these shells, which are not near the cedar, but in place of the tent. And with these cartridges from rocket launchers, which were very actively used during the search, the search engines themselves. Even the journalist G.K. Grigoriev, for his short presence on the search, recalls shots from rocket launchers.
I bow to this and do not remember dashingly.

[anna_pycckux]

У меня просьба ко всем, кто находит аргументы Аннушки Русских - интересными. Проверяйте и требуйте ссылки.
Вам предоставят фрагмент текста картинкой так - что будет похоже на правду. Но это - правдою не будет.

Thank you for mentioning my version. I will be happy to provide all the links. My book is not my fantasy, the whole book is based on references to the case materials, to the most important witnesses: Yu Yudin, Slobtsov, In Askinazi. From V. Askinaji, F received a delightful review of my version.
Quote from the review by V. M. Askinadzi (a former student of UPI, the search engine that found Luda Dubinina):
"....I think that subsequent authors will no longer dare
to write "novels". To be read, you need to write them
better than you, which is very, very difficult!..."

[anna_pycckux]

I ask the moderator to return the "CORRECT TEXT" function to the forum, because the translation is sometimes not quite correct, for example, in the previous post the translator translated the text

[Missi]

Those branches! Only a madman would stomp on them or hang underneath to break one off. Those are big! Having one or two men up in a tree bouncing and pulling on living wood, touches the limit of credulity. Further, if the hikers walked to the forest, as evidenced by prints in,snow, they were rational people.,Climb up a tree and do gymnastics? A,great way to hurt your favorite muscle...and no doctor around.

Очень здравомысляще. Дров поблизости было достаточно - чтоб не лазать за ними на кедр. А вот если тающий снег с веток - заливает с трудом разведенный костер, то тогда дать бой противным лишним веткам - имеет смысл. Я это пишу вроде как в пятый раз. Интересно - когда услышат...

Very sane. There was enough firewood nearby - so as not to climb the cedar for them. But if the melting snow from the branches floods the fire with difficulty, then it makes sense to give battle to the nasty extra branches. I am writing this for the fifth time. Interesting - when they hear ...

Wow, now I finally get, what you wanted to say. This is an intriguing idea.
From my personal experience with fires, I'm not convinced it was possible for a fire to melt snow on branches some meters above. Unless it was some kind of pyre. But then again, I never tried it, I usually just cook on fires. But those are of a size that I can touch the upper part of the pot at about half a meter above the top of the fire.
I'd really like to give it a try sometime. But we get not enough snow here. :(

I never heard mentioning of shooting or rocket launchers. I need to look for it.

[Почемучка]

Those branches! Only a madman would stomp on them or hang underneath to break one off. Those are big! Having one or two men up in a tree bouncing and pulling on living wood, touches the limit of credulity. Further, if the hikers walked to the forest, as evidenced by prints in,snow, they were rational people.,Climb up a tree and do gymnastics? A,great way to hurt your favorite muscle...and no doctor around.

Очень здравомысляще. Дров поблизости было достаточно - чтоб не лазать за ними на кедр. А вот если тающий снег с веток - заливает с трудом разведенный костер, то тогда дать бой противным лишним веткам - имеет смысл. Я это пишу вроде как в пятый раз. Интересно - когда услышат...

Very sane. There was enough firewood nearby - so as not to climb the cedar for them. But if the melting snow from the branches floods the fire with difficulty, then it makes sense to give battle to the nasty extra branches. I am writing this for the fifth time. Interesting - when they hear ...

Wow, now I finally get, what you wanted to say. This is an intriguing idea.
From my personal experience with fires, I'm not convinced it was possible for a fire to melt snow on branches some meters above. Unless it was some kind of pyre. But then again, I never tried it, I usually just cook on fires. But those are of a size that I can touch the upper part of the pot at about half a meter above the top of the fire.
I'd really like to give it a try sometime. But we get not enough snow here. :(

I never heard mentioning of shooting or rocket launchers. I need to look for it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Build_a_Fire

У нас во всех правилах для туристов - велят так размещать костры под деревьям зимою, чтобы снег с веток - не заливал огонь. Правила от Лукоянова П.И. например.
We have all the rules for tourists - they are ordered to place fires under the trees in winter so that the snow from the branches does not fill the fire. Rules from Lukoyanov P.I. for example.

[GlennM]

It is time for experimentation with fire in snow. Enough talk.

[Почемучка]

It is time for experimentation with fire in snow. Enough talk.

ЛУКОЯНОВ П.И. ЗИМНИЕ СПОРТИВНЫЕ ПОХОДЫ
Lukoyanov P.I. WINTER SPORT HIKING
https://tourlib.net/books_tourism/lukoyanov705.htm

Если отрыв от группы произошел недалеко от леса, то там и надо устраиваться на ночлег, разведя костер и устроив заслон. Опять же предположим, что у вас нет ни топорика, ни ножовки, а есть только ножик. Прежде всего наломайте лапника и отметьте им свой путь к лесу - это поможет товарищам из группы найти вас. Затем постарайтесь отыскать разлапистую ель, нижние ветки которой лежат на снегу или засыпаны снегом. Под ними, как правило, снега меньше, и он рыхлый, его можно умять или разгрести, используя, например, миску. Вот и готово укрытие, но не забудьте обязательно отряхнуть ветки, иначе, когда костер разгорится, снег обрушится и погасит огонь или закапает частым дождем. Для ростра (см. рис. 109, ж) можно использовать нижние сухие ветки, а для его разжигания - древесный мох, тонкие сучки и бумагу. Не поленитесь заготовить на ночь достаточно дров и пользуйтесь ими экономно. В укрытии лучше сесть спиной к дереву. Разводить костер непосредственно у дерева опасно - нижние ветки могут вспыхнуть, а огонь - перекинуться на вещи.

[RMK]

Those branches! Only a madman would stomp on them or hang underneath to break one off. Those are big! Having one or two men up in a tree bouncing and pulling on living wood, touches the limit of credulity. Further, if the hikers walked to the forest, as evidenced by prints in,snow, they were rational people.,Climb up a tree and do gymnastics? A,great way to hurt your favorite muscle...and no doctor around.

Очень здравомысляще. Дров поблизости было достаточно - чтоб не лазать за ними на кедр. А вот если тающий снег с веток - заливает с трудом разведенный костер, то тогда дать бой противным лишним веткам - имеет смысл. Я это пишу вроде как в пятый раз. Интересно - когда услышат...

Very sane. There was enough firewood nearby - so as not to climb the cedar for them. But if the melting snow from the branches floods the fire with difficulty, then it makes sense to give battle to the nasty extra branches. I am writing this for the fifth time. Interesting - when they hear ...

Wow, now I finally get, what you wanted to say. This is an intriguing idea.
From my personal experience with fires, I'm not convinced it was possible for a fire to melt snow on branches some meters above. Unless it was some kind of pyre. But then again, I never tried it, I usually just cook on fires. But those are of a size that I can touch the upper part of the pot at about half a meter above the top of the fire.
I'd really like to give it a try sometime. But we get not enough snow here. :(

I never heard mentioning of shooting or rocket launchers. I need to look for it.

If I understand Почемучка correctly, then I think "flare gun" is a better translation than "rocket launcher".

[Почемучка]

If I understand Почемучка correctly, then I think "flare gun" is a better translation than "rocket launcher".

[Почемучка]

If I understand Почемучка correctly, then I think "flare gun" is a better translation than "rocket launcher".

https://warfor.me/signalnyj-pistolet-shpagina-spsh-44-sssr/

[RMK]

Yes, Почемучка, you got it!

Да, Почемучка, ты понял!

[Ehtnisba]

I read on that other forum that is in russian that there was a 2009 expedition to the pass and they found a tree climber's boot spike in the cedar and non of the skiers or searchers had such things. I can't find it now but could the broken branches be from someone climbing other than the skiers?

Вас опять подвел гуглтранслит. Или же Ваше желание все понимать не так как написано. Никакого шипа в древесине кедра - не находили. На местности  где растет кедр - находили такой шип. Но это вполне понятно. В команду Кикоина входили как раз альпинисты. Они могли брать на поиски свое снаряжение под свои планы. Например лазать для обследования по останцам Отортена. Ведь записка группы Гудкова была снята именно на останцах Отортена. Могли быт планы лучше чем группа Аксельрода - проверить там.

Google Translit failed you again. Or your desire to understand everything is not as it is written. No thorn was found in the cedar wood. In the area where the cedar grows - they found such a thorn. But this is quite understandable. The Kikoin team included just climbers. They could take their equipment on searches according to their plans. For example, to climb for examination on the remains of Otorten. After all, the note of the Gudkov group was filmed precisely on the remnants of Otorten. There could have been better plans than Axelrod's group - check there.

Google translated останцам as "remains* which all English understand as ruins, or what has left from ruined thing. Especially this word is used about decomposed humans. " human remains"... So I am waiting for more corpses of dead alpinists to appear now. Translator is horrible for English. It lacks words. I suffer talk in nuances or methaphor in English. Autopsies and diaries in English are total mess. Not to mention dr. Rennaisance and Dyatlovs as Woodpeckers, searchers come as search engines??? Google thinks only machine is a searcher. That is the English. I speak it and still got grey hair. So you will need thick nerves to explain the words English lacks , most is one word fits all. Unbeatable language  .

[Ehtnisba]

I am a wee bit lost here. What's the debate over the branches and fire?

Shes is putting all her eggs in one basket getting her information from someone who arrived on the scene later and cherry picking information.  The first person to arrive at the site she is disregarding, then patronizing non russian members in a condescending manor on the premises that everything we read is flawed translation. As if we are mindless drones who need a “brain nanny”….  Yeah I read that before she edited her post. 

When I suggested everyone go back to the basics and explore the original case files…. It’s specifically because TEDDYS SITE CASE FILES WERE 100% TRANSLATED BY HER AND ARE 100% ACCURATE. 

Im simply no longer playing games.  Ive been poking around the site and engaging with members, posting sensitive topics that usually draw a divide in effort to discern who’s causing problems.  In most cases Почемучка elicits a negative response with arrogance, and narcissism.

I speak Bulgarian and going in English my language become arrogant. We speak with many nuances and with as Bulgarians all have not smiley but a la dr. House type of expression and humour. Just want to clarify this as speaker of Slavic language how much both ways of talking and houmour are different. You will see us as a grumpy nation ,, we see you as silly smiling. This is not agaunst you, just want to help you why translated Russian might sound offensive. 5 years I live in UK and still all are offended if I don't play the national rules of fun and smile. It is hard on me and not intentional. Hope that this helps a bit, you are smart and clever thinking , but I am reading you since 2018 and I speak English as a second language to avoid google and escape from using Bulgarian style while speaking to English speakers. My parents can't and they sound as bitter while not.
All the best!

[Ehtnisba]

Shes is putting all her eggs in one basket getting her information from someone who arrived on the scene later and cherry picking information.  The first person to arrive at the site she is disregarding, then patronizing non russian members in a condescending manor on the premises that everything we read is flawed translation. As if we are mindless drones who need a “brain nanny”….  Yeah I read that before she edited her post. 

When I suggested everyone go back to the basics and explore the original case files…. It’s specifically because TEDDYS SITE CASE FILES WERE 100% TRANSLATED BY HER AND ARE 100% ACCURATE. 

Im simply no longer playing games.  Ive been poking around the site and engaging with members, posting sensitive topics that usually draw a divide in effort to discern who’s causing problems.  In most cases Почемучка elicits a negative response with arrogance, and narcissism.

Ну понятно. Только почему Вы не сделали скрин - до того как я отредактировала?  У Вас были бы доказательства и у меня - алиби.
Это первое. Второе. Вас как американца скорее бы угнетала ужасная неправда про тайну убийства Кеннеди? Вот взяли бы русские и давай сочинять на эту достаточно освещенную в фактах тему - всякие странные истории. Так с Перевалом Дятлова - именно так.

Третье. Информация на этом ресурсе неплохая. Но - безупречности нет. Вас выручает то, что есть именно оригиналы. В глазах русских выручает. Вас может не интересовать наша оценка. Но Вы же хотите раскрыть русскую тайну? Или не хотите раскрывать?

Вы определитесь - что Вам предпочтительнее? Русских на форуме - и так полтора землекопа. Борзенков В.А.ушел, а это был - супер знаток темы. Я - пыль на его подошвах. Русские могут Вам - не мешать. Не пытаться заставлять изучать и сводить в одну понятную картину имеющиеся факты. Если фантазии и надуманность - это приемлемый метод: воля Ваша. Раскланяемся и удалимся.

Well, okay. But why didn't you take a screenshot - before I edited it? You would have proof and I would have an alibi.
This is the first. Second. As an American, would you rather be oppressed by the terrible lie about the mystery of the Kennedy assassination? The Russians would take it and let's write all sorts of strange stories on this topic, which is sufficiently covered in facts. So with the Dyatlov Pass - that's right.

Third. The information on this site is good. But there is no perfection. You are rescued by the fact that there are exactly originals. Helps out in the eyes of the Russians. You may not be interested in our assessment. But do you want to reveal the Russian secret? Or don't want to reveal?

You decide - what do you prefer? Russians on the forum - and so one and a half excavators. Borzenkov V.A. left, and he was a super connoisseur of the topic. I am the dust on his soles. The Russians can not interfere with you. Do not try to force to study and reduce the available facts into one clear picture. If fantasies and artificiality are an acceptable method: your will. We bow and leave.

П.С. У меня сейчас сессия закончилась. Поэтому опять редакция с вытягиванием написанного из кэша.
P.S. My session is now over. Therefore, again, the edition with pulling what was written from the cache.

Borzhenikov is very missed. To not cause more drama I think you know after what conversations it happened. It would be nice to see him again here. He answered me long explanations with pictures and all, learned so much of his knowledge - gold lost :(

[GlennM]

It seems to me that if someone climbed a tree and took a tumble,  the next order of business would be to bandage the wound. Then a crutch or a litter would be fashioned from wood and used to get medical help. None of these things were in evidence,,so we can effectively rule out tree trauma.

Any fire is also a signal fire. If the DP9 made it, that would be bad for would be assassins. I have a sneaking suspicion that the DP9 never made a fire because they couldn't get one started. What the researchers found was started by someone else at another time. If there was no fire, there was not much need to hang around the tree at all.

[ilahiyol]

It seems to me that if someone climbed a tree and took a tumble,  the next order of business would be to bandage the wound. Then a crutch or a litter would be fashioned from wood and used to get medical help. None of these things were in evidence,,so we can effectively rule out tree trauma.

Any fire is also a signal fire. If the DP9 made it, that would be bad for would be assassins. I have a sneaking suspicion that the DP9 never made a fire because they couldn't get one started. What the researchers found was started by someone else at another time. If there was no fire, there was not much need to hang around the tree at all.

The main purpose of their coming to the tree was to observe the unknown force. Making a fire was just for warming up a little. The main purpose was not to start a fire. If people attacked them anyway, they would never light a fire and they would run away into the forest. But they only went a mile away and caught fire. When Yuri, who climbed the tree, could not see anything around the tent, they planned to return to the tent. Because the tent had life-saving supplies for them. shoes clothes lanterns blankets food etc....

[GlennM]

It seems to me that if someone climbed a tree and took a tumble,  the next order of business would be to bandage the wound. Then a crutch or a litter would be fashioned from wood and used to get medical help. None of these things were in evidence,,so we can effectively rule out tree trauma.

Any fire is also a signal fire. If the DP9 made it, that would be bad for would be assassins. I have a sneaking suspicion that the DP9 never made a fire because they couldn't get one started. What the researchers found was started by someone else at another time. If there was no fire, there was not much need to hang around the tree at all.

The main purpose of their coming to the tree was to observe the unknown force. Making a fire was just for warming up a little. The main purpose was not to start a fire. If people attacked them anyway, they would never light a fire and they would run away into the forest. But they only went a mile away and caught fire. When Yuri, who climbed the tree, could not see anything around the tent, they planned to return to the tent. Because the tent had life-saving supplies for them. shoes clothes lanterns blankets food etc....

So far, so good. It seems we agree that nobody fell out of the tree. Personally, I think it unlikely that after walking a mile in adverse conditions, anyone would be warm and limber enough to climb up a tree. That said, the two reasons for doing it is to get wood or see something. See something when the light and blizzard permit it. Since they supposedly had fire, we can rule out aggressors. Then the only unknown compelling force would be a natural one...slab slip. Not much reason to climb a tree to see your tent, nine sets of tracks lead right back to it. Hmmm!

[Missi]

That's right, GlennM. But getting a contradiction for a result means, that some of your premises must have been wrong.
This means, there must have been another "compelling force". Or maybe they didn't light a fire. Or maybe, they didn't put up the tent there in the first place.

[GlennM]

Or maybe they had a tent in the woods and a tree fell on on it, so someone climbs up another tree instead of lighting a fire and forgets to bring the camera for a great perspective photo. The would be an unknown compelling farce!

In all seriousness, Missi, you are correct. There are certain assumptions that may be incorrect. We can verify or falsify each through our collective analysis. It gets down to human nature, but even that is suspect. What we would do at room temperature and what we would do in,subzero conditions may not equate.

What does equate is the individual and collective will to survive by any means at hand. For me, the survival value of climbing up any tree in winter is nil. Shelter, heating and eating are a priority. The last thing I would do is stop at that tree before I had a lean to or snow cave built or in the works. No tree is worth climbing if I can burn a whole sapling instead.

I suppose if we can take nothing as axiomatic, there is no way to proceed. Six decades of bickering tends to support that assertion.

[Missi]

Actually, I don't see, why someone would climb that tree, either. But we don't know if someone really did. The climbing is also part of the assumptions and not a fact.

[ilahiyol]

Actually, I don't see, why someone would climb that tree, either. But we don't know if someone really did. The climbing is also part of the assumptions and not a fact.

Assuming the place of the tent is the assumption that the young people are walking Assuming they light the fire Assuming they come to the tree Assuming they climb the tree Assuming they tear the tent Assuming they walk together Assuming if everything is assumption what is the truth??? Is this all a scenario??? So someone killed them, tortured them and then threw them there??? If there were human hands in the incident, they would definitely and definitely destroy those corpses....There is absolutely no human factor in the incident...And nothing is conjecture...All are real. they must have lit the fire. Because why would other people light a fire there???But they needed fire. And they lit it up and planned what to do. They wanted to go back to the tent. Because they were suddenly unprepared. But they also wanted to know if the unknown force was still there. That's why Igor climbed the tree. He looked well. Checked. That's why he broke branches. To take a better look... Then when I can't see anything

[Missi]

Actually, I don't see, why someone would climb that tree, either. But we don't know if someone really did. The climbing is also part of the assumptions and not a fact.

Assuming the place of the tent is the assumption that the young people are walking Assuming they light the fire Assuming they come to the tree Assuming they climb the tree Assuming they tear the tent Assuming they walk together Assuming if everything is assumption what is the truth??? Is this all a scenario??? So someone killed them, tortured them and then threw them there??? If there were human hands in the incident, they would definitely and definitely destroy those corpses....There is absolutely no human factor in the incident...And nothing is conjecture...All are real. they must have lit the fire. Because why would other people light a fire there???But they needed fire. And they lit it up and planned what to do. They wanted to go back to the tent. Because they were suddenly unprepared. But they also wanted to know if the unknown force was still there. That's why Igor climbed the tree. He looked well. Checked. That's why he broke branches. To take a better look... Then when I can't see anything

There ARE facts. For example it is a fact where the respective corpses were found. We have to distinguish between facts and nonfacts aka assumptions. There are assumptions, that are very plausible and most people agree on them. But when testing a theory, it is necessary to explain the facts, not necessarily all assumptions.

There are good explanations, why the fire was there, without them having lit it. They fit the theory, they origin from.
I'm also not convinced, that there was no other people involved. I find the theory presented in Teddy's book very plausible. It explains the fire, but no one climbed the tree.

[ilahiyol]

Actually, I don't see, why someone would climb that tree, either. But we don't know if someone really did. The climbing is also part of the assumptions and not a fact.

Assuming the place of the tent is the assumption that the young people are walking Assuming they light the fire Assuming they come to the tree Assuming they climb the tree Assuming they tear the tent Assuming they walk together Assuming if everything is assumption what is the truth??? Is this all a scenario??? So someone killed them, tortured them and then threw them there??? If there were human hands in the incident, they would definitely and definitely destroy those corpses....There is absolutely no human factor in the incident...And nothing is conjecture...All are real. they must have lit the fire. Because why would other people light a fire there???But they needed fire. And they lit it up and planned what to do. They wanted to go back to the tent. Because they were suddenly unprepared. But they also wanted to know if the unknown force was still there. That's why Igor climbed the tree. He looked well. Checked. That's why he broke branches. To take a better look... Then when I can't see anything

There ARE facts. For example it is a fact where the respective corpses were found. We have to distinguish between facts and nonfacts aka assumptions. There are assumptions, that are very plausible and most people agree on them. But when testing a theory, it is necessary to explain the facts, not necessarily all assumptions.

There are good explanations, why the fire was there, without them having lit it. They fit the theory, they origin from.
I'm also not convinced, that there was no other people involved. I find the theory presented in Teddy's book very plausible. It explains the fire, but no one climbed the tree.

You'll get nowhere with the mere fact of the corpse. We have to accept everything we see as fact...If the KGB wanted to kill them, they would have burned the bodies and incinerated them. Why would you leave? And it's unclear how Igor and the two Yuri died(?)... It looks like a shock wave(?) The heart stops suddenly...

[Missi]

Yes, everything we see. But you immediately start assuming. I'm not sure, why the KGB should burn the corpses. But yes, I don't think it was them, either. That does not mean, that there are not other parties involved, that could have interfered.