Assumptions and facts

[amashilu]

Autopsies concluded that not all of them died from hypothermia.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Autopsies concluded that not all of them died from hypothermia.

Thats what anna is saying… only that it was forced

[amashilu]

She writes:  "... so that everyone thinks that the guys died through their own fault from freezing."

*I* am saying that not all of the hikers died from hypothermia.

[Loose}{Cannon]

She writes:  "... so that everyone thinks that the guys died through their own fault from freezing."

*I* am saying that not all of the hikers died from hypothermia.

likely a translation issue?  She also talks about being forced to strip down clothing etc

[anna_pycckux]

She writes:  "... so that everyone thinks that the guys died through their own fault from freezing."
*I* am saying that not all of the hikers died from hypothermia.

1. most likely no one died from freezing. Most of them died from traumatic brain injuries. According to my version, only Zina died from freezing. (she managed to sit on a cedar tree)
2. There is a high probability that there was a big battle near the cedar. I even admit that Zolotarev and Doroshenko could have killed two liquidators. (Nurse Salter was talking about 11 corpses)

[Почемучка]

Autopsies concluded that not all of them died from hypothermia.

Да что там вскрытие. Там на глаз были видны - огромные кровотачащие травмы. Хороша маскировка. Если человек переломан как ...
Маскировались маскировались - да не вымаскировались. Видимо не смогли...Халтурщики...

Yes, there is an opening. There, the eyes were visible - huge bleeding injuries. Good disguise. If a person is broken like...
Disguised disguised - but not disguised. Apparently they couldn't...Hacks...

[Почемучка]

Blatant Rule 1 violation.  100 point Warning issued.

Join us again in 10 days more respectful.

Loose}{Cannon

[anna_pycckux]

I translated into English the document of the Sverdlovsk Regional Committee submitted by me on March 10, 1959. The document says that a group of tourists died in the mountains of the Urals and a commission from the City Committee of Sverdlovsk was created to investigate the tragedy.

Translation of the document: Strictly Secret. Sverdlovsk Regional Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. No. B55-8.Extract from Protocol No. 55, paragraph 8. Meeting of the Bureau of the Sverdlovsk Regional Committee of the tourists from the Ural CPSU on March 10, 1959. extracts were sent to the Central Committee of the CPSU. About the death of a group of Polytechnic Institute.
The Regional Committee of the CPSU notes that in the city of Sverdlovsk in some physical culture organizations there is no elementary order in the organization and conduct of hiking trips. Which leads to accidents. Thus, at the end of January of this year, a tourist group of the Northern Urals was sent from the Ural Polytechnic Institute without the knowledge of the directorate and public organizations of the Institute, without monitoring its movement. About the death of this group, the leadership of the Institute, party and Soviet bodies learned with great delay.
THE BUREAU OF THE REGIONAL COMMITTEE OF THE CPSU DECIDES
1. To draw the attention of the Sverdlovsk City Committee of the CPSU (Comrade Zamiryakin) to the lack of control on his part for the organization of tourist work of physical culture organizations, in particular in higher educational institutions.
2. To propose to the Sverdlovsk City Committee of the CPSU (Comrade Zamiryakin) to thoroughly investigate the causes of the death of a group of tourists of the Polytechnic Institute and to bring the perpetrators to strict party and state responsibility.
Secretary of the Regional Committee of the CPSU Kirilenko (signed)

[anna_pycckux]

the following document dated March 27, 1959 was sent to the Central Committee of the CPSU. The document contains the conclusions of the commission appointed by the Sverdlovsk Regional Committee

I translate the underlined paragraph:
As a result of the investigation conducted by the commission by the commission of the regional Committee of the CPSU (Chairman of the commission Pavlov V. A. – deputy chairman of the Regional Executive Committee). It is established that the immediate cause of death is a large hurricane. Which overtook her when approaching Mount Otorten. All the band members left the tent for some reason. Placed on the slope of a height of 1079 were scattered by a hurricane wind. They lost their bearings, failed to return to the tent and died of frost.

[anna_pycckux]

conclusion: The Sverdlovsk Regional Committee of the CPSU reported to Moscow that the entire group died of frost already in March 1959, when the investigation was not yet completed and the last corpses were not found. This suggests that. that the Sverdlovsk regional committee replaced the investigative authorities and falsified the cause of the death of the guys. like death from frost.

[Ziljoe]

conclusion: The Sverdlovsk Regional Committee of the CPSU reported to Moscow that the entire group died of frost already in March 1959, when the investigation was not yet completed and the last corpses were not found. This suggests that. that the Sverdlovsk regional committee replaced the investigative authorities and falsified the cause of the death of the guys. like death from frost.

Or , they concluded, given the state of the first 5 bodies and no signs other 4 , that death was from the the frost/cold /environment. They expected to find the others dead from a similar fate ?

[ilahiyol]

No one believes that professional teenagers go out for a walk barefoot and half-naked. Who would believe such nonsense? Nobody believes. It's a fantasy...And in previous discussions it has been proven that the tent was cut from the inside. The youths rushed out because of an immediate threat from outside!!! One night they didn't say, "Come on guys, let's go for a walk in the woods barefoot and without outer clothes." Not even a lunatic would do that.

[marieuk]

Just randomly came across an article that made me think.  It was about the old Pagan ways of celebrating/welcoming the returning spring.  The beginning of February was often the day for any rituals and these could involve animal pelts, cut tree branches, fires, bindings, burying bear bones and on top placing spruce branches.  Also, Alder tree sap would be painted over things/people, which is a reddish/orange colour..  So, could most of the things at the cedar tree be a left over from some celebration/tradition and nothing to do with  the Dyatlov group at all? 

[Missi]

You mean, there were people celebrating down there and the hikers ended up at the same place some hours later?

I'm not sure, whether Imbolc was a feast of the Mansi. They rather seem animalistic in tradition to me. But then again, how you describe it, it seems rather animalistic than like neopagan Imbolc...
I'm pretty sure, no one else would take the way upon themself only to celebrate a ritual, though.

[tenne]

No one believes that professional teenagers go out for a walk barefoot and half-naked. Who would believe such nonsense? Nobody believes. It's a fantasy...And in previous discussions it has been proven that the tent was cut from the inside. The youths rushed out because of an immediate threat from outside!!! One night they didn't say, "Come on guys, let's go for a walk in the woods barefoot and without outer clothes." Not even a lunatic would do that.

If they rushed out, why are the foot prints showing walking? wouldn't the prints be running?

[Ziljoe]

There no foot prints at the tent to show what their movement was from the tent. The foot prints are recorded Futher down the slope.

[marieuk]

You mean, there were people celebrating down there and the hikers ended up at the same place some hours later?

I'm not sure, whether Imbolc was a feast of the Mansi. They rather seem animalistic in tradition to me. But then again, how you describe it, it seems rather animalistic than like neopagan Imbolc...
I'm pretty sure, no one else would take the way upon themself only to celebrate a ritual, though.

Just saying there could be alternative explanations.  Maybe they didn't cut the branches from the tree, or build a den or a fire etc. 

[tenne]

Yes and they were walking, why would anyone walk away from something so dangerous they left to freeze to death instead?

[ilahiyol]

No one believes that professional teenagers go out for a walk barefoot and half-naked. Who would believe such nonsense? Nobody believes. It's a fantasy...And in previous discussions it has been proven that the tent was cut from the inside. The youths rushed out because of an immediate threat from outside!!! One night they didn't say, "Come on guys, let's go for a walk in the woods barefoot and without outer clothes." Not even a lunatic would do that.

If they rushed out, why are the foot prints showing walking? wouldn't the prints be running?

First of all, it wasn't a large pack of bears or wolves attacking them. If it were, they should have run. But whatever was attacking just wanted to get them out of the tent. Otherwise, he could have killed them in the tent anyway. The group was not in mortal danger for the moment. And they didn't have to run. And running on a slope with cold winds can be deadly. People sweat and die from hypothermia in a short time! And it was impossible for them to run anyway, as it was dark, windy and the ground was slippery. In short, running is neither possible nor logical... These people are not ordinary people... They knew well what to do and how to behave.

[Missi]

You mean, there were people celebrating down there and the hikers ended up at the same place some hours later?

I'm not sure, whether Imbolc was a feast of the Mansi. They rather seem animalistic in tradition to me. But then again, how you describe it, it seems rather animalistic than like neopagan Imbolc...
I'm pretty sure, no one else would take the way upon themself only to celebrate a ritual, though.

Just saying there could be alternative explanations.  Maybe they didn't cut the branches from the tree, or build a den or a fire etc.

It's definitely worth thinking about. I, too, believe, that we take too much for granted by now.

[GlennM]

Is it a fact or supposition that a patched tent is prone to tearing in a high wind? 
If a patched tent fails in a high wind, is it fact or supposition that closing the edges would be difficult in sub zero weather with needle and thread.?
If a needle and thread repair were attempted in an arctic hurricane, is it fact or supposition that a gloved hand can not do the repair?
If a tent failed in an arctic hurricane, is it fact or supposition that a lit suspended stove can not be made to work?
If a stove can not be made to work is it fact or supposition that a fire could be made in the shelter of the,edge of a forest?

Is it fact or supposition that wind scouring has no perceptible effect of whether the footprints are determined to be going toward or away from the wind?

Asking for a friend, 

[Missi]

As of now, my tent didn't show any signs that the patched areas are more prone to damage as unpatched. But the areas of repair are kinda small, so that might not be that much of a prove...

[GlennM]

Missi, you took action. Appreciated.

[Missi]

Oh, well, I might add, it's not exactly the same type of tent. But then again, theirs was specially manufactured. And mine is a modern produced medieval style geteld-tent. It's called "Sachsenzelt" here.

[Manti]

First of all, it wasn't a large pack of bears or wolves attacking them. If it were, they should have run.

Never run from a bear. It's natural instinct, it will chase you. In fact it's best to not move at all, just play dead.

[RMK]

First of all, it wasn't a large pack of bears or wolves attacking them. If it were, they should have run.

Never run from a bear. It's natural instinct, it will chase you.

Manti is exactly right here.  For that matter, don't run from a pack of wolves, either, for basically the same reason: don't behave like prey.  Wolves are usually not interested in confrontations with humans, though.

In fact it's best to not move at all, just play dead.

I have heard that advice, but I have heard other advice about bears, too.  Part of the reason for that, I suspect, is that in North America, we live with two different species of bear.  One is the brown bear, Ursus arctos (of which the "grizzly bear" is a subspecies), which also lives in northern Eurasia.  The other is the American black bear, Ursus americanus.  The two species differ in behavior, and therefore present different threat profiles to humans.  However, their ranges overlap to some extent, and a non-expert may have difficulty distinguishing between U. arctos and U. americanus, especially under stress: "brown bears" are not necessarily brown, nor are "black bears" necessarily black.  So, I think we Americans and Canadians often get "generic" advice that is sensible to follow if you're not sure which of the two species you've encountered.

As for me, I've only ever had to deal with black bears, in various regions of Appalachia.  I could say more if anyone's curious, but I won't for now, as it's off-topic...we can be very sure that there were no American black bears in the Northern Urals in 1959 

[GlennM]

It is is a fact no prints of predatory quadrapeds were recorded at the site of the tragedy. It is an assumption that if they were there, trace evidence would be preserved. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but for me, it is not about bears. I favor a failed tent in a blizzard compelling hikers to find warmth and shelter where they could. It is a fact that in a blizzard visibility is reduced. My assumption is that had no choice but to leave the tent. It is my assumption they underestimated the distance to the woods.

[ilahiyol]

First of all, it wasn't a large pack of bears or wolves attacking them. If it were, they should have run.

Never run from a bear. It's natural instinct, it will chase you. In fact it's best to not move at all, just play dead.

Avoiding the bear is only valid if you are the only one.... Because there is only one person to chase and that is you!!! But if you are 9 people, it is very likely that you will escape by escaping... Of course, men would not want to leave women alone with the bear. And they would attack the bear with their axes and knives. And they would probably miss the bear. But there was neither a struggle nor any signs of escape in the tent. So there was no bear or any animal. The probability of being human is also one in a million.. It's not even possible for me... The only option left is "Unknown compelling Force!!!"

[GlennM]

Yes, one need not to be faster than a bear, only faster than the next guy.

[Missi]

Yes, one need not to be faster than a bear, only faster than the next guy.

That's exactly, what I wanted to say, too.