Evidence of other parties

[amashilu]

Collecting evidence of other parties' presence, here is what I come up with. Is there more?

1. Flashlight on top of 200 mm of snow on the tent. On top of the snow.
Turned it on -- it worked. No battery I know of would turn on after being on top of a tent in below-zero weather for 3 weeks. Who put the flashlight there? Did the Mansi use Chinese flashlights?
Sharavin: The second strange thing is that the Chinese flashlight, which Slobtsov and I found during the excavation of the tent, was not on the tent canvas, but in the middle of a layer of snow 200mm thick.

2. Military puttees -- two of them.

3.  11th pair of skies, found outside the tent. The hikers had nine (arranged under the tent) and a tenth pair was in storage.

4. Bodies were moved after death.

[Ziljoe]

I think there's threads for each of these topics. I haven't time to find the link but I'm sure they exist on the forum.

I think all were explained apart from the puttees although I thought only one was found.

From what I can remember, the torch was said to belong to Igor. Possibly left hanging at entrance of tent for going outside for toilet. If there had been snow on the tent anyone dropping it or it falling from the tent ridge, it would end up on top of snow.

I think the skis were simply miscounted.

The bodies being moved after death is also speculation.

[ilahiyol]

Any lantern can stay on the snow as long as there is enough sun. The snow that falls on it at night will melt during the day with the heating of the Sun. And the lantern will stay on the snow. It seems that there has not been much snow for 25 days already. Because Igor and Zina partly appeared on the snow. The other lighthouse was dragged 500 meters down due to possible wind. Since the lantern is made of a slippery material and is cylindrical in shape, even if snow falls on it, it will melt under the influence of the snow sun. And if the flashlight is off, it can keep its power for months. Military supplies may be items left by soldiers who were there before the incident. The 11th pair of skis could be Yurinin. They may have brought it with them

[amashilu]

Yes, I am aware of these explanations, but they are not facts. They are "maybes." I am trying to take a fresh look.

[Ziljoe]

amashilu understand. I'm all for some new nugget of information that's been missed.

[anna_pycckux]

amashilu understand. I'm all for some new nugget of information that's been missed.

1. A blanket on the corpses. The position of the corpses near the cedar.
M. Sharavin, quote: We claim that the corpses were covered with a brown blanket, and then it disappeared, it ended up in a tent. When we started sorting things out in the tent and found him there.
Search engine M. Sharavin, quote: on the 27th, after us, someone took the blankets off the corpses, the rescuers who came for the bodies on the 28th, did not find any blankets.
V. Brusnitsyn, quote: from the tent, first they took out several blankets rolled into a ball..
Tourists couldn't have blankets rolled up in a ball.
2. Bite marks on the guys' faces and hands indicate the presence of liquidators with dogs.
3. Signs of possible rape of Lyudmila Dubinina. (for more information, see the version "State order for liquidation)

[anna_pycckux]

4. a piece of a broken ski.
Maslennikov 's radiogram from March 7, 1959:
"....... a piece of a broken ski is lying 20 meters from the tent"

[Ziljoe]

amashilu understand. I'm all for some new nugget of information that's been missed.

1. A blanket on the corpses. The position of the corpses near the cedar.
M. Sharavin, quote: We claim that the corpses were covered with a brown blanket, and then it disappeared, it ended up in a tent. When we started sorting things out in the tent and found him there.
Search engine M. Sharavin, quote: on the 27th, after us, someone took the blankets off the corpses, the rescuers who came for the bodies on the 28th, did not find any blankets.
V. Brusnitsyn, quote: from the tent, first they took out several blankets rolled into a ball..
Tourists couldn't have blankets rolled up in a ball.
2. Bite marks on the guys' faces and hands indicate the presence of liquidators with dogs.
3. Signs of possible rape of Lyudmila Dubinina. (for more information, see the version "State order for liquidation)

I believe I read elsewhere that the quote of being covered in a blanket was wrong and an assumption. It was corrected by the witness. It just looked like they were. ( I could be wrong)

There are at least two versions of the blankets in the tent and how they were found along with a number of contradictions. This suggests that things were moved by several people when the tent was first discovered and the documented factual recording a day or 2 later.

There is no reporting of dog bites, none. Not even by the witnesss of the exposed faces at the funeral.

There are no signs of rape. This your own speculation .

[anna_pycckux]

There are no signs of rape. This your own speculation .

Signs of rape:
1. Lyudmila is dressed in someone else's underwear, which does not correspond to the harsh winter campaign.
Men's blue underpants. Women's belt with elastic garters. Stockings.. the stocking is lowered from the left leg. - This is from the conclusion of the forensic medical examination. Case sheet 355 act 4.2
. The swimsuit is torn in the crotch area and in the elastic band area. - sheet 355
3. There is a hematoma on the thigh. - sheet 366
4. A forensic medical expert describes the vaginal mucosa as purplish-red. At the same time, the presence of virginity is described, which could not be with a visible purplish-red mucous membrane.
5. Gynecologist A. Taranova was invited to the morgue.
I add:
the medical examiner made an incision of the uterus and found a small amount of mucus. (see screenshot). The contents of the uterus should be sent for examination, but there is no conclusion in the case file. Nowadays, gynecologist Taranova gave an interview to researcher Nechaev, but answered questions mainly: "I do not know, I do not remember..." And she made it clear that she did not intend to give out secrets. Everything testifies to the possible rape of Luda Dubinina, that is, this fact confirms the criminal version of the murder and nothing more.
and now argue and refute!!

[amashilu]

Sharavin:  We ... saw a cedar down in the ravine, we went there. There was the body of Doroshenko covered with a blanket ...Nothing but a blanket around the fire was seen, a dark brown blanket.

Sharavin much later said he might have been mistaken, and that now he can't be sure it was a blanket.

[amashilu]

1. Flashlight on top of 200 mm of snow on the tent. On top of the snow.
Turned it on -- it worked. No battery I know of would turn on after being on top of a tent in below-zero weather for 3 weeks. Who put the flashlight there? Did the Mansi use Chinese flashlights?
Sharavin: The second strange thing is that the Chinese flashlight, which Slobtsov and I found during the excavation of the tent, was not on the tent canvas, but in the middle of a layer of snow 200mm thick.

2. Military puttees -- two of them.

3.  11th pair of skies, found outside the tent. The hikers had nine (arranged under the tent) and a tenth pair was in storage.

4. Bodies were moved after death.

5. A piece of a broken ski 20 m from the tent.

6. A large circle of swept snow, larger than that of helicopter rotor blades.

[anna_pycckux]

Sharavin much later said he might have been mistaken, and that now he can't be sure it was a blanket.

M. Sharavin, interview from February 15, 2007. Quote: "We claim that the corpses were covered with a brown blanket, and then it disappeared after being found in the tent."  I have no reason not to trust M. Sharavin, who was telling the whole truth. That is probably why his testimony is not in the case file. The presence of a blanket on a corpse is a very strong proof of the presence of outsiders.

[Ziljoe]

Sharavin much later said he might have been mistaken, and that now he can't be sure it was a blanket.

M. Sharavin, interview from February 15, 2007. Quote: "We claim that the corpses were covered with a brown blanket, and then it disappeared after being found in the tent."  I have no reason not to trust M. Sharavin, who was telling the whole truth. That is probably why his testimony is not in the case file. The presence of a blanket on a corpse is a very strong proof of the presence of outsiders.

The quote does not make sense.

 "We claim that the corpses were covered with a brown blanket, and then it disappeared after being found in the tent."

How do they know the blanket found in the tent was the same  alleged blanket found  covering them? . There is no sign of them being covered in a blanket at the ceder. ? Why would it even suggest the presence of outsiders?.

[Ziljoe]

There are no signs of rape. This your own speculation .

Signs of rape:
1. Lyudmila is dressed in someone else's underwear, which does not correspond to the harsh winter campaign.
Men's blue underpants. Women's belt with elastic garters. Stockings.. the stocking is lowered from the left leg. - This is from the conclusion of the forensic medical examination. Case sheet 355 act 4.2
. The swimsuit is torn in the crotch area and in the elastic band area. - sheet 355
3. There is a hematoma on the thigh. - sheet 366
4. A forensic medical expert describes the vaginal mucosa as purplish-red. At the same time, the presence of virginity is described, which could not be with a visible purplish-red mucous membrane.
5. Gynecologist A. Taranova was invited to the morgue.
I add:
the medical examiner made an incision of the uterus and found a small amount of mucus. (see screenshot). The contents of the uterus should be sent for examination, but there is no conclusion in the case file. Nowadays, gynecologist Taranova gave an interview to researcher Nechaev, but answered questions mainly: "I do not know, I do not remember..." And she made it clear that she did not intend to give out secrets. Everything testifies to the possible rape of Luda Dubinina, that is, this fact confirms the criminal version of the murder and nothing more.
and now argue and refute!!

Does one after being raped  dress in some else's underware? Then keep there stockings on. Does a person or people make a hole in swim ware with the intention to rape? Then let them redress? Could the reply saying" I do not know or remember " mean just that , werethe interviewers asking if rape had occurred to which she wouldn't even know the answer.

There's nothing to refute . Your context is all over the place. To run your model of thinking to the extreme, they could have been all raped and put there pants back on. Maybe the Yuri's torn trousers ment they were were raped. Talk sense !!!

[Ziljoe]

1. Flashlight on top of 200 mm of snow on the tent. On top of the snow.
Turned it on -- it worked. No battery I know of would turn on after being on top of a tent in below-zero weather for 3 weeks. Who put the flashlight there? Did the Mansi use Chinese flashlights?
Sharavin: The second strange thing is that the Chinese flashlight, which Slobtsov and I found during the excavation of the tent, was not on the tent canvas, but in the middle of a layer of snow 200mm thick.

2. Military puttees -- two of them.

3.  11th pair of skies, found outside the tent. The hikers had nine (arranged under the tent) and a tenth pair was in storage.

4. Bodies were moved after death.

5. A piece of a broken ski 20 m from the tent.

6. A large circle of swept snow, larger than that of helicopter rotor blades.

Where is the report of the large circle of swept snow from and the 11 pair of skis from ?

[amashilu]

M.Sharavin: I would consider the discovery of the 10th pair of skis by the tent strange, since 9 pairs of skis were found under the tent, and a spare pair of skis was found in the storage. Yudin brought this up many times in front of me.

[Ziljoe]

Yep. And the context of the 8 pairs of ski's found under the tent would make 9 . Plus the fact they carried a pair set..left at the labaz? This is my understanding.

[amashilu]

M.Sharavin:
As for the area of blown snow, this was reported in a radiogram from the search.
The circle of blown snow was larger than that of a helicopter propeller.
Later, the book with a record of all radiograms from the search was removed by the "competent" authorities, the room was closed and the watch was stopped.

[amashilu]

Yep. And the context of the 8 pairs of ski's found under the tent would make 9 . Plus the fact they carried a pair set..left at the labaz? This is my understanding.

Sharavin says it was 9 pairs of skis under the tent, and one in storage. That makes 10. An 11th pair was found outside the tent.

[Ziljoe]

Yep. And the context of the 8 pairs of ski's found under the tent would make 9 . Plus the fact they carried a pair set..left at the labaz? This is my understanding.

Sharavin says it was 9 pairs of skis under the tent, and one in storage. That makes 10. An 11th pair was found outside the tent.

The reports to the skis found are different. It's the confusion by assumption of the reports that keep the stupidity of the DPI alive . The recording of inventory of gear is pointless to make any firm conclusion because they did not arrive at the tent from the context of a crime scene. No one was accurately observing and recording. They say that from the beginning, it was a search and rescue as in any country where people go missing.

For example , this blanket thing  over the Yuri's may have some merit. The bodies of the Yuri's were found and one was transported to the bootrock. The other was left. One of the rescue team may have covered the body with a blanket with respect for the body. Then someone else observed the blanket but does not understand the chronology of events.

We are going over old ground , I suggest that you recommend that new members read old discussions that address these matters. The water is already muddy and we are making it more muddy and I don't understand why....

[Ziljoe]

M.Sharavin:
As for the area of blown snow, this was reported in a radiogram from the search.
The circle of blown snow was larger than that of a helicopter propeller.
Later, the book with a record of all radiograms from the search was removed by the "competent" authorities, the room was closed and the watch was stopped.

Can you give me the link for this. The reason being I want the location of the blown snow and the date. If the snow at the tent was firm/ firm and they had to use an axe and the skis to dig of the snow. , Then I have questions over the concept of rotor blades making an circle unless it was at the time of the search where it could possibly happen with fresh snow. Dates and time are everything. We have hard raised foot prints.

You are wrong regarding the first 3 bodies being found with little snow, we can see this from the two Yuri's at the ceder. Igor was mostly covered apart from what looks like his elbow and top of his head. The other two, Zina and Rustem were covered. You're adding to the myths. It is not helpful. Be factual.

[amashilu]

Vasily Ivanovich Tempalov, who was present at the examination of the tent, and flew on a helicopter over the area said: "What can I say, rockets had fallen, craters all around, I'm an artilleryman." he has been on the front-lines, a commander... batteries, 76 mm batteries, awarded with an order.
NAVIG: In what part did he see the craters during the flight?
GVN: In the same area, at the same time, on the same days.
NAVIG: There is no such information anywhere..
GVN: He also said: "There are craters there, I'm an gunner, I can tell when I see one!" said Vasiliy Ivanovich Tempalov, the prosecutor. This also led to a certain look at this event. It is clear that there is an explosion of a rocket, large or small, directed, whether it reached its target or not we can't say, of course, a test, not enemies...

[amashilu]

M.Sharavin:
As for the area of blown snow, this was reported in a radiogram from the search.
The circle of blown snow was larger than that of a helicopter propeller.
Later, the book with a record of all radiograms from the search was removed by the "competent" authorities, the room was closed and the watch was stopped.

Can you give me the link for this. The reason being I want the location of the blown snow and the date. If the snow at the tent was firm/ firm and they had to use an axe and the skis to dig of the snow. , Then I have questions over the concept of rotor blades making an circle unless it was at the time of the search where it could possibly happen with fresh snow. Dates and time are everything. We have hard raised foot prints.

You are wrong regarding the first 3 bodies being found with little snow, we can see this from the two Yuri's at the ceder. Igor was mostly covered apart from what looks like his elbow and top of his head. The other two, Zina and Rustem were covered. You're adding to the myths. It is not helpful. Be factual.

It is not I who is "wrong." It would be Sharavin.

Sometimes I think you are a plant, Ziljoe. Are you? Your role on the forum seems to be to refute and deny everyone else's posts.

A few years ago, I was elected president of a local nonprofit. Over the next few months, the new VP and I introduced many ideas and projects we would like to try. But the old-timers in the organization just shook their heads and said, "Nah, we tried that 5 years ago and it didn't work," or "Yeah, that won't work, we already tried that once."  It taught me to be sad and sorry that people won't give something a try because it had once failed and they didn't think it could ever succeed.

[Ziljoe]

Yeah, the KGB planted me..... I've spent 8 years reading all theories. All have an element of possibility. It seems to break down to two camps. One it was a natural event, secondly there was a bunch of bad guys intent on killing the DP9. I have read enough to know that there is no evidence that bad guys chased the dp9 to their deaths.

It certainly can't be ruled out but motive, context are missing. There are far more strong arguments that it happened by a natural cause. To me , the inconsistency with statements and reports was to with the search and rescue effort. This amplifies the coverup.

If I refute or deny other people's posts , it is because there's nothing to suggest outsiders. I don't know how much you have read but you can see Zina and Rustem were covered with snow. The two Yuri's were under cover of the ceder where snow does not gather. The radio grams are quick , short communication to the people that be , not an exact report. , This is within the first day and there's still the slum chance that the others are alive.

Noone at the beginning of the search is looking for dead people. When they find the tent, there is no bodies, it's not a crime scene. They rummage through the tent, by all accounts , innocently. It's the following day that the investigators start to document. Poorly...

[amashilu]

Yes, thank you, just keep an open mind. Sometimes I notice people on this forum are Velcro stuck to a theory and defend it like their life depended on it. A little daylight and room for question is a good thing.

[Ziljoe]

Vasily Ivanovich Tempalov, who was present at the examination of the tent, and flew on a helicopter over the area said: "What can I say, rockets had fallen, craters all around, I'm an artilleryman." he has been on the front-lines, a commander... batteries, 76 mm batteries, awarded with an order.
NAVIG: In what part did he see the craters during the flight?
GVN: In the same area, at the same time, on the same days.
NAVIG: There is no such information anywhere..
GVN: He also said: "There are craters there, I'm an gunner, I can tell when I see one!" said Vasiliy Ivanovich Tempalov, the prosecutor. This also led to a certain look at this event. It is clear that there is an explosion of a rocket, large or small, directed, whether it reached its target or not we can't say, of course, a test, not enemies...

I will need to re read this. As far as I can remember it was dismissed by other forum members, across various forums. If he saw them so would all the searchers , students , Mansi etc.

[amashilu]

You ARE a plant. Your role is to discourage us all from asking questions!

[Ziljoe]

Yes, thank you, just keep an open mind. Sometimes I notice people on this forum are Velcro stuck to a theory and defend it like their life depended on it. A little daylight and room for question is a good thing.

I appreciate your observation, I am like velcro but without the adjoining piece. A little question, or a lot of question is a great thing. Please excuse my obvious frustration , it's just been discussed before. I feel obligated to direct to the previous debates where such conversation has taken place but I seriously can't be bothered. It's a bit frustrating to watch a conversation repeat. That's my grump. It's not directed at you. I'll put it down to dp9 burnout on my comments. X

[amashilu]

And I am sorry that after 8 years, you are tired and jaded.

I wish you weren't. You have a keen old brain and I'd like to make use of it.

[Ziljoe]

You ARE a plant. Your role is to discourage us all from asking questions!

Yep, everytime I stop a question being asked the Russians send me a chilled vodka . ( Although I did ask for a private yacht) . They do lie....