what happened at the cedar

[tenne]

I find it very hard to understand what happened at the cedar that lead to someone repositioning Yuri D after he passed away.

Did they stand there at the fire and when he fell and laid there on the snow full length, not the best way to stay warm btw, did they just wait until he died and then  moved him and walked away?

Why didn't they try to attend to whatever injury was causing his "ear, nose and lips are covered with blood" and at least clean off the blood? anything wet isn't good in these temps and blood will freeze. No one bothering to clean up his face makes me wonder if anyone able bodied was there with him. cleaning the face seems to be very common first aid

[tenne]

based on this summery from this website

"Later Yury Yudin will testify that the long sleeved shirt found on the body of Igor Dyatlov was his. But he gave it to Doroshenko then he was departing. It would be logical to assume that Dyatlov got it from a frozen body of the Doroshenko after he had died."

it would indicate that there were at least 3 people at the cedar, so when did Igor take the shirt from Doroshekno (asumming he did)

[tenne]

"15 m from the den, they found a spoon and a knife sheath. Official criminal investigation, Decision to dismiss criminal case:

"The bodies were found few meters away from the clothes found of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko - pants, sweater. All clothes had been cut when they were taken from the bodies of Doroshenko and Krivonischenko."

so some clothing was found between the tent and the cedar and some was found between the ravine (where the bodies were found) and where the den was found

so people stood around, didn't wipe off the blood, waited until the Yuris were deceased, turned one over, cut some of their clothing off and then went seperate ways?

[amashilu]

And one of the hikers brought a spoon when they left the tent.

[tenne]

another odd thing is the clothing was cut off, some of it at least. A body doesn't freeze instantly and it relatively easy to take clothing off a limp body as it looks like Igor did.

so they waited until the two were frozen stiff and then cut off the clothing and took it while Igor took the intact sweater right away?

[marieuk]

Maybe Doroshenko gave the shirt/jacket to Dyatlov after Yuri left the group.  Doroshenko was a big guy, so maybe it didn't fit that well?  I'd imagine if you were freezing to death and needed some clothes to wear, you probably wouldn't want to cut them apart. 

[tenne]

I agree that is why cutting them off seems so strange, not to mention did they wait until the person was frozen before they cut it off? Just dirt around waiting?

[tenne]

Just stood around waiting for him to freeze? didn't realize there was a spelling mistake

[GlennM]

Grist to the mill for conspiracy advocates. Were not clothes cut from corpses at the morgue? Were there orders given to put the deceased right back where they were found and re dressed? I,do not buy it.

[tenne]

Grist to the mill for conspiracy advocates. Were not clothes cut from corpses at the morgue? Were there orders given to put the deceased right back where they were found and re dressed? I,do not buy it.

"15 m from the den, they found a spoon and a knife sheath. Official criminal investigation, Decision to dismiss criminal case:

"The bodies were found few meters away from the clothes found of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko - pants, sweater. All clothes had been cut when they were taken from the bodies of Doroshenko and Krivonischenko."

so you are saying that the clothes were cut at the morgue and then returned to the scene? or are you disputing the official record?

[GlennM]

I prefer Occam's Razor. Just not for cutting fabric LOL. The,survivors simply did what they could with what they had.

[tenne]

I prefer Occam's Razor. Just not for cutting fabric LOL. The,survivors simply did what they could with what they had.

so are you agreeing the official reports are saying cut clothing was found at the site? 

clothing is in much better at keeping people warm if it is whole, I am pretty sure we will agree with that. Taking clothing off a limp body isn't hard and keeps the clothing whole. So at what point did they cut the clothing off the frozen bodies?

Yuri had to be moved after death but before the body froze, as indicated by the spots and that wouldn't happen after it froze, so did they flip him, left him to freeze and then cut it? they had to be there at some point to get the clothing

[Ziljoe]

I find it very hard to understand what happened at the cedar that lead to someone repositioning Yuri D after he passed away.

Did they stand there at the fire and when he fell and laid there on the snow full length, not the best way to stay warm btw, did they just wait until he died and then  moved him and walked away?

Why didn't they try to attend to whatever injury was causing his "ear, nose and lips are covered with blood" and at least clean off the blood? anything wet isn't good in these temps and blood will freeze. No one bothering to clean up his face makes me wonder if anyone able bodied was there with him. cleaning the face seems to be very common first aid

Yuri D was not necessarily repositioned, if the did , it doesn't mean they did after he passed away.

Who is saying the watched him die and walk away?

Cleaning a face of mild blood is not the priority if everyone one is exposed to the elements of the weather. How would spending time wiping a face of blood serve the severity of the situation. First aid has nothing to do with freezing and everyone is in the same situation of heat loss.

[tenne]

I find it very hard to understand what happened at the cedar that lead to someone repositioning Yuri D after he passed away.

Did they stand there at the fire and when he fell and laid there on the snow full length, not the best way to stay warm btw, did they just wait until he died and then  moved him and walked away?

Why didn't they try to attend to whatever injury was causing his "ear, nose and lips are covered with blood" and at least clean off the blood? anything wet isn't good in these temps and blood will freeze. No one bothering to clean up his face makes me wonder if anyone able bodied was there with him. cleaning the face seems to be very common first aid

Yuri D was not necessarily repositioned, if the did , it doesn't mean they did after he passed away.

Who is saying the watched him die and walk away?

Cleaning a face of mild blood is not the priority if everyone one is exposed to the elements of the weather. How would spending time wiping a face of blood serve the severity of the situation. First aid has nothing to do with freezing and everyone is in the same situation of heat loss.

 "Livor mortis spots were located at the back of the neck, torso and extremities, which was not consistent with the position of the body in which it was found. This means the body was moved some time after the blood stopped circulating." from this website.

so he was turned over after he died and before he froze and some of his clothing was cut away after he was frozen, I assume as it would make the clothing less effective at keeping them warm, so they would rather take them after he had died but was still limber.

The cut clothing was found by the den:

"15 m from the den, they found a spoon and a knife sheath. Official criminal investigation, Decision to dismiss criminal case:
"The bodies were found few meters away from the clothes found of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko - pants, sweater. All clothes had been cut when they were taken from the bodies of Doroshenko and Krivonischenko"

so someone at the den was at the cedar after the two yuri's had passed away or were there while it happened, either way, it just seems decent to me to clean up their face as you take their clothing

[Ziljoe]

I find it very hard to understand what happened at the cedar that lead to someone repositioning Yuri D after he passed away.

Did they stand there at the fire and when he fell and laid there on the snow full length, not the best way to stay warm btw, did they just wait until he died and then  moved him and walked away?

Why didn't they try to attend to whatever injury was causing his "ear, nose and lips are covered with blood" and at least clean off the blood? anything wet isn't good in these temps and blood will freeze. No one bothering to clean up his face makes me wonder if anyone able bodied was there with him. cleaning the face seems to be very common first aid

Yuri D was not necessarily repositioned, if the did , it doesn't mean they did after he passed away.

Who is saying the watched him die and walk away?

Cleaning a face of mild blood is not the priority if everyone one is exposed to the elements of the weather. How would spending time wiping a face of blood serve the severity of the situation. First aid has nothing to do with freezing and everyone is in the same situation of heat loss.

 "Livor mortis spots were located at the back of the neck, torso and extremities, which was not consistent with the position of the body in which it was found. This means the body was moved some time after the blood stopped circulating." from this website.

so he was turned over after he died and before he froze and some of his clothing was cut away after he was frozen, I assume as it would make the clothing less effective at keeping them warm, so they would rather take them after he had died but was still limber.

The cut clothing was found by the den:

"15 m from the den, they found a spoon and a knife sheath. Official criminal investigation, Decision to dismiss criminal case:
"The bodies were found few meters away from the clothes found of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko - pants, sweater. All clothes had been cut when they were taken from the bodies of Doroshenko and Krivonischenko"

so someone at the den was at the cedar after the two yuri's had passed away or were there while it happened, either way, it just seems decent to me to clean up their face as you take their clothing

Whatever was happening at the ceder I would guess cleaning up the face was not priority, I don't know enough about the bleeding at death during hypothermia . Although the clottec blood is stated to be minor ,plus some of what is observed is frostbite which means he lived long enough for that to happen.

If they were all suffering from the same event, positioning , toxic gas, cold etc then they would all be battling for survival. It seems logical that they cut small furs and collected the branches to make a fire.

I can understand stand the retrieval of clothing and possibly cuting off trousers and taking a jumper, if they had now died.  but I must admit it's difficult to workout the chronological events.

The two Yuri's may have been failing and the fire was made whilst the others built the snow den . Perhaps on returning to the ceder from the den , the Yuri's had succumbed to the cold. The Yuri's could not maintain the fire?

They report that there was a number of green fir branches left lying  on and around the ceder which would have been the best insulation in the circumstances but wasn't utilised. Why there's clothing lying around is confusing.

There is debate if it was livor mortis spots or not somewhere else on this site but It does look like he was laid to rest and I can't imagine the group not sharing clothes if one of them was in a sleeveless shirt and others had several shirts/jumpers/jackets. I would have to admit that there is a strong case for  post mortem manipulation of the 2 Yuri's.

The only other thing I can think of is paradoxical undressing.

[tenne]

I have the same feelings about the events and in what order they happened. I thought that the sweater kinda proved that Igor was at the cedar but the post saying it could have been on Igor no matter who it was given to made me change that thought to all I can prove to myself is someone from the den was at the cedar after yuri froze.

paradoxical undressing also occurred to me cutting off the clothing of other people makes me wonder. If they felt they were too warm, why cut off people's clothing?

the blood being wiped off was thinking that at least Igor was there while yuri was alive because he had his sweater so IMO he would try to do first aid and taking a substance that will freeze and reduce body warmth but now that I have changed that thought, I agree with you it wouldn't be a first priority for anyone finding a frozen body

[WinterLeia]

The cedar tree was being used a central hub to stockpile tree clippings and clothing to make the snow den. Or, at least, that was the impression that the first searchers at the scene got. And so the tourists would be coming and going, not just to get supplies or drop them off, but also to sit by the fire and warm themselves up. Considering they were trying to dig out a snow den with their bare hands, in frigid temperatures, many of them underdressed, they would have needed frequent breaks to stave off hypothermia.
 
So I think what happened is Dyatlov told Yuri and Yurkin to tend the fire and keep an eye on the tent, or at least keep an eye on the direction where the tent was, while the rest would make the snow den. The two men look like they fell out of the tree, and that’s probably what happened. For instance, maybe one of them fell asleep through sheer exhaustion and the other one tried to save him, but lost his balance as well.

Between a nasty fall and frigid temperatures they didn’t have the strength to get back up. Perhaps, they hoped one of the others would come back and eventually, someone did, but it was already too late.

Obviously, after the other three hikers were badly injured, Dyatlov must have realized that they needed to return to the tent and brave whatever danger was there. He helped transport the injured to the snow den, left them in Kolevatov’s care, and returned to the campfire to cut the shirt off Yurkin, rolling him over the process. Then he, Zina, and Slobodin began their ill-fated trek back toward the tent.

Meanwhile, Kolevatov could have gathered up the other garments from the deceased to place on the floor of the den, and dress Luda with. Tragically, though, it didn’t matter. Dyatlov never came back.

Admittedly, that’s a lot of suppositions. However, I was trying to come up with a scenario that reasonably fit the known facts.

[Ziljoe]

I like that thinking of them using the fire as a quick way to get warm going back and forth.

[tenne]

makes as much sense as anything does. If they fell and were hurt, that might make the other 3 feel that they had to get back to the tent for first aid supplies?

this was brought up on the russian forum and it seems to be a sticking point if the snow was too deep to go back and forth and/or wouldn't there be a path make if they did. I don't know enough about it to say yes or no to those ideas, just throwing them out.

[WinterLeia]

makes as much sense as anything does. If they fell and were hurt, that might make the other 3 feel that they had to get back to the tent for first aid supplies?

this was brought up on the russian forum and it seems to be a sticking point if the snow was too deep to go back and forth and/or wouldn't there be a path make if they did. I don't know enough about it to say yes or no to those ideas, just throwing them out.

God knows I’m not an expert on the great outdoors. But I think if the path led under the trees, and it would have had to since they were cutting tree clippings, the path would not have been preserved by the time the searchers stumbled across the bodies. The snow sliding from the tree tops, as well as snowfall in general, would have obscured it and there were no strong winds in the forest to blow it away. Sharavin said that even the footprints they saw leading down the hill toward the cedar disappeared as they neared the tree line.

[tenne]

that makes sense, I can't tell from the photos of the den if there could have been a trail there or not.

[RMK]

The cedar tree was being used a central hub to stockpile tree clippings and clothing to make the snow den. Or, at least, that was the impression that the first searchers at the scene got.

But, the first searchers on the scene didn't know about the den.  The search party wouldn't dig up the den until May.

[WinterLeia]

The cedar tree was being used a central hub to stockpile tree clippings and clothing to make the snow den. Or, at least, that was the impression that the first searchers at the scene got.

But, the first searchers on the scene didn't know about the den.  The search party wouldn't dig up the den until May.

It was a recollection. The searchers did not know what the clippings were for at the time they found the camp.  They only knew that they were not good for firewood, had not been used for firewood, and there were plenty of other materials near at hand that were far better.  The discarded clothing was also a mystery. At first, they just chalked up to paradoxical undressing. It was only after the den was found that the mystery was finally cleared up.

[GlennM]

An indicator that at that time someone or more had their wits about them. They were not evading predators two or four legged. They were not doped, nor poisoned, just crazy cold.Accidents happen when you can't feel stuff.

[ilahiyol]

The youth were divided into three groups. If there was a human element, they would not be divisible by 3. Even if there was a split it would have been by escaping into the forest. But there is no escape!!!(?) There is no hiding either!!!(?) Even Igor Rustem and Zina are going back to the tent! Two Yuri's are lighting a fire in the tree! And the other four are digging a snow cave very close to the tree! All this removes the human element in the event. If there is a human element, you would expect the youngsters to run away and hide in the far reaches of the forest. In fact, they light a fire and return to the tent(???) There is absolutely no natural phenomenon.... Then there is only one answer: ''Unknown compelling POWER'' Unknown means power that no one can predict. But whatever this Power is, it is clear that it is not an ordinary power like the Yeti.....A very knowledgeable, experienced, wise power that knows what it is doing!!!!

[Naufragia]

I've read a post - I believe by WAB (can't locate it, unfortunately) - which suggests the hikers broke up into at least three groups when descending the hill and didn't see each other alive again. Thus, Semyon, Tibo, Kolevatov and Lyuda made it down the hill together and may have come across the two Yuris both dead at the cedar already, drawn by a little light or the smell of smoke of their failing fire. They took their clothes and arranged their bodies respectfully before moving on the building the den or snow cave.

Apart from the shirt, which can be explained by the hikers swapping clothing with each other, is there any evidence at all which suggests Igor, Zina and Rustem were at the cedar?

[ilahiyol]

An indicator that at that time someone or more had their wits about them. They were not evading predators two or four legged. They were not doped, nor poisoned, just crazy cold.Accidents happen when you can't feel stuff.

Even an amateur doesn't die from extreme cold in 6-8 hours, Glennm. Especially if you are in a tent and you have clothes, it is not possible.... Put your dream of dying from this cold aside, I think.....They had both professional tents and clothes. No matter how cold the weather is, it is absolutely impossible for them to die of cold under these conditions. It is not possible for all of them to die of cold all at once....I don't even see a one in a million chance.

[GlennM]

The trip was longer than 6 to 8 hours.The diet was restricted, the conditions severe. I believe that under normal circumstances the tour would have been completed successfully. It was clear to me that the hikers were not equal to the conditions. They were not cohesive as a group and they had little money and poor equipment. When the slab slip happened it set into motion a chain of events that could not be reversed. Bad things happen to good people.

[ilahiyol]

I've read a post - I believe by WAB (can't locate it, unfortunately) - which suggests the hikers broke up into at least three groups when descending the hill and didn't see each other alive again. Thus, Semyon, Tibo, Kolevatov and Lyuda made it down the hill together and may have come across the two Yuris both dead at the cedar already, drawn by a little light or the smell of smoke of their failing fire. They took their clothes and arranged their bodies respectfully before moving on the building the den or snow cave.

Apart from the shirt, which can be explained by the hikers swapping clothing with each other, is there any evidence at all which suggests Igor, Zina and Rustem were at the cedar?

It is not possible for them to be separated from each other willingly or unwillingly in a short distance of 1.5 km. It is evident from the footprints that they walked 500 meters together. Both locations are on the same plane. They continue in the same direction. And logically, after the group is taken out of the tent, they have to go to the forest and make a fire. It would be better for them to do this together. Why should they separate??? They're making a plan. Igor tells the two Yuries to climb up the tree and spy on the Unknown power. And he plans to take Rüstem and Zina with him and return to the tent. It shows great courage. The other 4 do not want to stay near the fire. Maybe they can't keep the fire going. Because a burning fire is always better than a snow cave. The possible fire is extinguished and they are going to build a snow cave. I don't think it's very likely that they'll leave before the fire goes out.

[ilahiyol]

The trip was longer than 6 to 8 hours.The diet was restricted, the conditions severe. I believe that under normal circumstances the tour would have been completed successfully. It was clear to me that the hikers were not equal to the conditions. They were not cohesive as a group and they had little money and poor equipment. When the slab slip happened it set into motion a chain of events that could not be reversed. Bad things happen to good people.

The group had enough food. All sorts of things.... And their moment of death happened 6-8 hours after their last meal. It is clear from the autopsies of these young people. Their stomachs were full and it had only been 6-8 hours until the moment they died!!! And the group definitely got along very well. They were all in unity and solidarity. While some members of the group were poor, others were rich and had enough money. If you throw an amateur in the forest, he will not die overnight. It even lasts up to a week unless it gets wet. It may even last for months if it finds food.