Expedition July-August 2023 Экспедиция июль-август 2023

[anna_pycckux]

[Teddy]

 Initials could be Skachkov Vladimir Alekseevich or Skutin Vladimir Afanasyevich. Who is who →

[anna_pycckux]

с тайна.ли

[Teddy]

https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=5226.msg341552#msg341552

Skutin died 2012.

[anna_pycckux]

The option with Skutin disappears. There was no Skutin in the area of 1079. screenshot from Dyatlovpass.

Группа Чернышова так же отпадает.
Chernyshov's group also disappears, they did not have the initials S.V.A

[Teddy]

Skachkov was part of the Grebennik search party in the Oyka-Chakur area, nowhere near where the ax was found.

Although Skutin was called off and did not go to 1079 he flew to Otorten. He might still have left his ax to Atmanaki. Atmanaki testimony →

[anna_pycckux]

We also need to check all the surnames for A and for D. For example: Semyon (?) Vasilyevich (?) Averbukh.
.

[anna_pycckux]

To clarify the initials, it is necessary to conduct an examination of the axe handle. From long time and natural conditions - letters could be erased, cracks could be added - initials could initially look different.

And also these letters could mean the name of the organization, for example, Soviet Military Aviation
or Soviet Military Landing

[anna_pycckux]

Туристические топорики времен СССР  начало 60-х.
Tourist hatchets of the USSR times  the beginning of the 60s. About hatchets with a rubber handle, bad reviews: calluses the hand
https://guns.allzip.org/topic/342/1687402.html
It is necessary to turn to Sogrin With H, show him the finds, the hatchet. What if he finds out whose hatchet it was? Sogrin, according to the student Bychkov, received equipment from the Chekist town. Were they given such hatchets? At that time, they were foreign hatchets or ours, Soviet ones, which were difficult to get.

[Олег Таймень]

The second stage of the expedition. Part 5
On July 25, being in the place of the four in the stream, we recorded an unknown rodent in the photo and video, which quickly moved along the stream and was not afraid of a person.
The rodent swam equally fast on the water and ran over the stones overgrown with moss. I ran into one of the holes, of which there were several along the stream ..
The size of the rodent was clearly larger than a field mouse, but smaller than a rat. Everyone noted the absence of a long rat tail
Второй этап экспедиции. Часть 5.
25 июля, находясь на месте четвёрки в ручье, зафиксировали на фото и видео неизвестного грызуна, который шустро передвигался по ручью и не боялся человека.
Грызун одинаково быстро и плавал по воде и бегал по камням, поросшим мхом. Забежал в одну из нор, которых было вдоль ручья несколько..
Размерами грызун был явно крупнее мыши-полёвки, но меньше крысы. Все отметили отсутствие длинного крысиного хвоста







By external signs, he identified LEMMING.
Lemmings are a group of several closely related genera of the subfamily of voles of the family of hamsters of the order of rodents.
По внешним признакам идентифицировал ЛЕММИНГ.
Ле́мминги — группа из нескольких близкородственных родов подсемейства полёвковых семейства хомяков отряда грызунов.








Lemmings live in swampy, wet areas where moss swamps are present. They have a tail no more than 2 cm. They swim well. In winter, lemmings dig through the snow, extracting food from under it. With a lack of nutrition, they are very active in the extraction of food.

Are there lemmings in the Northern Urals?
There are and always have been. They live in a swampy area covered with moss, identical to the area where the channels of the 4 right tributary of the Lozva flow, where the four bodies of the Dyatlov group were found in 1959. [/ b]
Лемминги живут в болотистой влажной местности, там где присутствуют моховые болота. Имеют хвост не более 2 см. Хорошо плавают. Зимой лемминги копают снег, извлекая из под него пищу. При недостатке питания ведут себя очень активно при добыче пищи.

А есть ли лемминги именно на Северном Урале?
Есть и всегда были. Живут именно в болотистой местности покрытой мхом, идентичной с местностью, где протекают русла 4 правого притока Лозьвы, где была найдена четвёрка тел группы Дятлова в 1959 году.

Studying HISTORY OF THE RODENT FAUNA OF THE NORTHERN URAL, came to the conclusion that in the Northern Urals, at this height, in the zone of marshy crooked forests, lemmings exclusively predominate. Also, in a small amount of mouse-voles.

Analyzing the behavior of lemmings (they are not afraid of humans, they swim well, they dig snow in winter, extracting food from under it, with a lack of food in winter they are very active in obtaining food, digging passages in the snow for movement) , it can be assumed that these rodents are to blame for the lack of tongue and eyeballs in Luda Dubinina, eyeballs in Semyon Zolotarev.
Изучая ИСТОРИЮ ФАУНЫ ГРЫЗУНОВ СЕВЕРНОГО УРАЛА, пришёл к выводу, что на Северном Урале, на данной высоте, в зоне болотистого криволесья, преобладают исключительно лемминги. Так-же, в незначительном количестве мыши-полёвки.

Анализируя поведение леммингов ( не боятся человека, хорошо плавают, зимой копают снег, извлекая из под него пищу, при недостатке питания в зимнее время ведут себя очень активно при добыче пищи, роя в снегу ходы для передвижения ), можно сделать предположение, что именно эти грызуны виноваты с отсутствие языка и глазных яблок у Люды Дубининой, глазных яблок у Семёна Золотарёва.

[anna_pycckux]

These rodents are herbivores. They feed on berries, root system, young shoots, seeds. Moss yagel is considered their favorite dish. They feed mainly on lichens and green moss, which grow in abundance in the tundra. Question to the Taimen: can you force a herbivore, for example, a deer, to eat corpse meat?

[Олег Таймень]

These rodents are herbivores. They feed on berries, root system, young shoots, seeds. Moss yagel is considered their favorite dish. They feed mainly on lichens and green moss, which grow in abundance in the tundra. Question to the Taimen: can you force a herbivore, for example, a deer, to eat corpse meat?

There is no need to mislead and fantasize. Could you do all this in your topic?
Lemmings gnaw on anything they find.


Translation:
What do they eat in winter?
Already in August, the lush vegetation dies and in autumn the tundra remains covered with withered grass, and in some places it becomes almost bare. Only in low-lying places are areas covered with lichen preserved. Now the menu of lemmings is significantly reduced. The short northern summer ends and the long winter sets in. And now these natives of the Arctic are forced to start eating the so-called pasture.

The main diet at this time is reindeer moss, which is commonly called reindeer moss, but in fact it is not even moss, and not a plant at all, but a kind of lichen, which, in principle, belongs to a special category of organisms, but nevertheless it is quite nutritious . Therefore, with a large amount of reindeer moss, lemmings do not face hunger. And besides, in addition to reindeer moss, lemmings feed on bark from shrubs, raking the snow, get to the roots of various plants, gnaw birch bark from the trunks of dwarf birches or polar willows. Green or peat moss is also a great help in the diet of lemmings.

They happily eat egg shells from abandoned bird nests. In deer pastures, under the snow, old antlers shed by deer remain, with which lemmings can easily cope, crumbling them into small pieces with their powerful front incisors. When cold and snowstorms come, lemmings do not hibernate, but lead an active lifestyle. Under the snow in the moss bog litter or inside the tussocks, they arrange spacious burrows with deep passages, make stocks there and breed. By digging tunnels under the snow, they extract the roots of plants and this replenish their diet on warm days they rise outside.

[Ziljoe]

Fun fact.

On my first Google of lemmings.

"Their principal summer foods are tender shoots of grasses and sedges. During the winter they eat frozen, but still green, plant material, moss shoots, and the bark and twigs of willow and dwarf birch. There is some evidence that brown lemmings are cannibalistic when food is scarce."

[anna_pycckux]

There is some evidence that brown lemmings are cannibalistic when food is scarce."

This is doubtful and not true. Blogger Fiona Howard, to whom you refer and the only one who talks about the possible cannibalism of lemmings, is not a biologist and cannot assert this fact. https://ru.boatexistence.com/18709144-which-animals-are-in-alpine-tundra

[Ziljoe]

I'm no expert on lemmings , that I will admit.

However...

What Does Lemming Eat In The Wild?
Lemmings are herbivores, mainly surviving on vegetation. However, during the cold winter months, there is a scarcity of food and so they eat whatever they find in large quantities to prevent nutritional deficiencies. During this season, lemmings will spend the best part of their day looking for food. Some studies show that lemmings even eat other lemmings when food is limited


https://www.atshq.org/what-do-lemming-eat/


What to do? Who to believe? Whatever theory any of us have invested in, the most likely explanation for the missing eyes and tongue , is the location the bodies were found. In the water, under snow decomposing .

We now also have a lemming that tunnels in the snow and lives in that very habitat and will eat flesh given the opportunity.  We can see from the photo that it exists!

[Ziljoe]

There is some evidence that brown lemmings are cannibalistic when food is scarce."

This is doubtful and not true. Blogger Fiona Howard, to whom you refer and the only one who talks about the possible cannibalism of lemmings, is not a biologist and cannot assert this fact. https://ru.boatexistence.com/18709144-which-animals-are-in-alpine-tundra

It came from Lemmings - Alaska Fish and Game. Pdf.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/education/wns/lemmings.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiDvJeXyveAAxW_QEEAHchlCjoQFnoECBEQBg&usg=AOvVaw2qsOB0qCfqpxko4x4Xo8lX

The brown lemming. Lemmus trimucronatus, is the only true lemming in Alaska. Brown lemmings inhabit open tundra areas throughout Siberia and North America. They live in northern treeless regions, usually in low-lying, flat meadow habitats dominated by sedges, grasses and mosses. Their principal summer foods are tender shoots of grasses and sedges. During the winter they eat frozen, but still green, plant material, moss shoots, and the bark and twigs of willow and dwarf birch. There is some evidence that brown lemmings are cannibalistic when food is scarce.

[Олег Таймень]

[eurocentric]

Is it symbolic? Perhaps we are all lemmings, in the sense that we are following the trail of imagined truths we cannot possibly prove, or straight off the cliff with conspiracy theories. Or were the hikers themselves lemmings and they all followed Igor Dyatlov's instruction to pitch a tent up a mountain, with disastrous consequences.

Philosophy now <spoken with my best Yoda impression>

[Олег Таймень]

Notes on the results of the Expedition-2023..
1. Storehouse
1.1. A new angle on the storage shed of the State Duma did not confirm the similarity with the pictures of the State Duma. The leftmost large birch has the wrong slope. (it's my opinion!).
Later there will be a detailed review of the new angle with overlay images.
1.2. The fork tree next to the storehouse is 99% consistent with the HD image. Since the tree-fork is located 20 meters from the supposed place of the storehouse, the conclusion about the place of the storehouse suggests itself ...
Perhaps this is the only evidence of the place of the storehouse so far (this is my opinion!).


Later, there will be a detailed review of the angle of the fork with the overlay of the captured images of 2023 on the picture of the Dyatlov group in high quality. A high quality large format image is already available for this comparison..
.
2. Winter camp of searchers on Auspiya.
Not yet found, despite the efforts of Shura Alekseenkov ..
The descriptions of the place of the camp by V. Yakimenko (the State Duma warehouse and the camp of searchers in one place) are very different from the descriptions of other participants in the search work in 1959.
Analyzing the concentration of saw cuts and the distance of the garbage storage site from the tent in the spring camp of the searchers, we can conclude that the winter camp of the searchers was also located at the concentration of saw cuts on the tributary of the Auspiya, in the place of garbage storage. And this is not at the parking lot of Yu.K. Kuntsevich, as A. Konstantinov and Sh. Alekseenkov believe. (But, this is just my opinion, which has no evidence yet... Next summer we need to deal with this issue more closely. There is already a plan.)
.
3. Spring camp of searchers on the tributary of the Lozva.
Found a little below the place, which was shown according to the scheme by V.M. Askinadzi in a live interview with Alexander Kan (video).
The camp was found just in the place of the largest concentration of tree cuts, which Kahn showed on the diagram. This is opposite the dam.
The camp was found after the discovery of a large number of saw cuts and a large number of artifacts from 1959 in one place and subsequent visual comparison of the area according to photographs of search operations in 1959 by Shura Alekseenkov.
By the way, they most likely found exactly these buckets, on which the searchers cooked hot food (photos from the archive of V.M. Askinadzi):


.
4. Dam.
There are some things that are not entirely clear here.
In the main central shaft of the dam, 12 hammered construction staples were found. The thirteenth was nearby in the water. (there is also the fourteenth staple, driven into a birch at the site of the spring camp, near the place of the tent)
The brackets are driven in very strangely - not for attaching vertical racks (my opinion).
12 staples are driven in along the entire length of the tree along the stream with two legs up to the very back without a gap [/ b].
Remarkably like this:


What is the purpose of these staples and who could drive them in?
When discussing the findings of the Expo-2023 with V.M. Askinadzi, he confidently stated that they did not drive in any staples during the construction of the dam.
Here is his verbatim answer:
VMA:

"We didn't drive in any brackets, we just didn't need them. The construction of the dam was impromptu before the May holidays. From the moment we arrived at the pass, there were no more helicopters until May 5th. Yes, and in Ivdel we loaded a helicopter and no staples were loaded. It is necessary to ask questions to those who were after us. Valya Yakimenko's group was the first after us, I did not track other groups. As far as I know, he did not say anything about the staples. "[/ Quote]
In another VMA post:

"The staples were in our hands when the dam was already built? Why are they needed then? A group of soldiers from Nikolai Kuzminov we got from Blinov's group. Maybe the staples were brought earlier with some kind of shift. in the corner of the tent, when cleaning the territory, when they had already begun to remove the tent, they were discovered. I’m already fantasizing! One thing is clear, we didn’t need staples for the construction of the dam. "[/ Quote]
And in fact, with such an arrangement of brackets, why are they needed for the dam? How can they strengthen it?
It was more or less logical to drive staples to the central trunk and vertical posts or make a gap to be able to thread the cord and tie the posts ..
.
A few more words about the brackets in this photo:


Despite the poor quality of the image, two legs of two brackets are clearly visible in the lower part:


But on the original scan (TIFF) of this image, taken 10 years ago by Evgeny KUK, nothing can be traced:

.
Where are the staples in the dam???
Were they driven into a tree after May 8, when the sixth group of searchers left the search site?
Did someone drive them in before May 8, without informing the students and soldiers? For what? What is the purpose of the staples? Soldiers without orders will not do this. Students don't need to...
By the way, with this group there was someone else in civilian clothes, whom V.M. Askinadzi did not know and did not understand who it was ..
Lots of questions that are still unanswered..

[Олег Таймень]

In Russian, the same post:
На русском языке тот же пост:

Заметки по результатам Экспедиции-2023..
1. Лабаз
1.1. Новый ракурс на лабаз ГД не подтвердил схожесть со снимками ГД. Самая левая большая берёза имеет не тот наклон. (это моё мнение!).
Позже будет подробный обзор нового ракурса с наложением изображений.
1.2. Дерево-вилка рядом с лабазом на 99% соответствует снимку ГД. Так как дерево-вилка находится в 20 метрах от предполагаемого места лабаза, вывод о месте лабаза напрашивается...
Возможно, это пока единственное доказательство места лабаза (это моё мнение!).


Позже будет подробный обзор ракурса вилки с наложением отснятых изображений 2023 на снимок группы Дятлова в высоком качестве. Снимок в высоком качестве большого формата уже есть для этого сравнения..
.
2. Зимний лагерь поисковиков на Ауспии.
Пока не найден, не смотря на усилия Шуры Алексеенкова..
Описания места лагеря В.Якименко (лабаз ГД и лагерь поисковиков в одном месте) очень сильно отличается от описаний других участников поисковых работ 1959 года.
Анализируя концентрацию спилов и расстояние места складирования мусора от палатки в весеннем лагере поисковиков, можно сделать вывод, что зимний лагерь поисковиков, так-же, находился в месте концентрации спилов на притоке Ауспии, в месте складирования мусора. А это не на месте стоянки Ю.К.Кунцевича, как считают А.Константинов и Ш.Алексеенков. (но, это только моё мнение, которое пока не имеет никаких доказательств... Следующим летом нужно заниматься этим вопросом более плотно. Уже есть план.)
.
3. Весенний лагерь поисковиков на притоке Лозьвы.
Найден немного ниже места, которое показал по схеме В.М.Аскинадзи в живом интервью Александру Кану (видео).
Лагерь найден как раз в месте самой большой концентрации спилов деревьев, которое показал Кан на схеме. А это напротив плотины.
Лагерь найден после обнаружения большого числа спилов и большого числа артефактов 59 года в одном месте и последующим визуальным сравнением местности по фотографиям поисковых работ 1959 года Шурой Алексеенковым.
Кстати, нашли, скорее всего, именно эти ведра, на которых поисковики готовили горячую пищу (фотографии из архива В.М.Аскинадзи):


.
4.Плотина.
Тут пока есть не совсем понятные моменты..
В основном центральном стволе плотины обнаружено 12 вбитых строительных скоб. Тринадцатая находилась рядом в воде. (ещё есть четырнадцатая скоба, вбитая в берёзу на месте весеннего лагеря, вблизи места палатки)
Скобы вбиты очень странно - не для крепления вертикальных стоек (моё мнение).
12 скоб вбиты по всей длине дерева вдоль ручья двумя ножками до самой спинки без зазора.
Приметно так:


Какая цель у этих скоб и кто мог их вбить?
При обсуждении находок Экспы-2023 с В.М.Аскинадзи, он уверенно заявил, что они не вбивали никаких скоб при строительстве плотины.
Вот его дословный ответ:
ВМА:

"Мы никаких скоб не вбивали, они нам просто были не нужны. Строительство плотинки - это был экспромт перед майскими праздниками. С момента нашего прибытия на перевал больше вертолётов до 5-го мая не было. Да и в Ивделе мы загружали вертолёт и никаких скоб не грузили. Это надо задавать вопросы тем, кто был после нас. Группа Вали Якименко была первой после нас, других групп я не отслеживал. Он относительно скоб, насколько мне известно, ничего не говорил."

В другом сообщении ВМА:

"Скобы в руках, когда уже плотинка была построена? Зачем они тогда нужны? Группа солдат Николая Кузьминова нам досталась от группы Блинова. Может скобы были привезены раньше с какой-нибудь сменой. Провалялись без востребования весь период поисков где-нибудь в углу палатки, при уборки территории когда уже начали снимать палатку, их обнаружили. Это я уже фантазирую! Одно понятно, нам для строительства плотины скобы были не нужны".

И на самом деле, при таком расположении скоб, зачем они нужны для плотины? Как они могут её укрепить?
Более менее логично было быть вбивать скобы к центральному стволу и вертикальным стойкам или сделать зазор для возможности продеть шнур и привязать стойки..
.
Ещё пару слов по поводу скоб на этой фотографии:



Не смотря на плохое качество снимка, явно прослеживаются в нижней части две ножки двух скоб:


А вот на оригинальном скане (TIFF) этого снимка, сделанным 10 лет назад Евгением KUK, ничего не прослеживается:

.
Откуда в плотине скобы???
Их вбили в дерево после 8 мая, когда шестая группа поисковиков покинула место поисков?
Их вбил кто-то до 8 мая, не информируя студентов и солдат? Зачем? Какая цель вбитых скоб? Солдаты без приказа не станут этого делать. Студентам, так же, нет надобности..
Кстати, с этой группой был ещё кто-то в штатской одежде, которого В.М.Аскинадзи не знал и так и не понял, кто это..
Много вопросов, на которые пока нет ответов..

[Ziljoe]

I'm not fully understanding the staples or the construction of the dam. But the word staples and your image makes me consider their possible use.

( I have no idea how they would build their dam)

However , my thoughts are that if they used a long branch, trunk ,tree across the top of the dam supporting vertical posts. Perhaps the staples could be used to hold a large piece of canvas or suitable material in place to stop/stem the flow of water. The staples would hold the material on the top horizontal trunk. ?

Only a thought.

[Олег Таймень]

I'm not fully understanding the staples or the construction of the dam. But the word staples and your image makes me consider their possible use.

( I have no idea how they would build their dam)

However , my thoughts are that if they used a long branch, trunk ,tree across the top of the dam supporting vertical posts. Perhaps the staples could be used to hold a large piece of canvas or suitable material in place to stop/stem the flow of water. The staples would hold the material on the top horizontal trunk. ?

Only a thought.

There is no need to stop the flow of water. Yes, and it's impossible. The purpose of the dam is to hold the bodies of dead tourists if a flood comes and the bodies float. And the flow of water must pass freely between the vertical racks.

[Ziljoe]

I'm not fully understanding the staples or the construction of the dam. But the word staples and your image makes me consider their possible use.

( I have no idea how they would build their dam)

However , my thoughts are that if they used a long branch, trunk ,tree across the top of the dam supporting vertical posts. Perhaps the staples could be used to hold a large piece of canvas or suitable material in place to stop/stem the flow of water. The staples would hold the material on the top horizontal trunk. ?

Only a thought.

There is no need to stop the flow of water. Yes, and it's impossible. The purpose of the dam is to hold the bodies of dead tourists if a flood comes and the bodies float. And the flow of water must pass freely between the vertical racks.

Thanks Олег Таймень,

I thought they built a dam to protect the searcher's  when they were excavating the ravine four. . To slow the flow of water incase the water or snow swept the searcher's away?  This was my interpretation. I thought the dam was upstream of the bodies, not below.

[Олег Таймень]

August 1, 2023
We move along the ridge towards Otorten. We stop at 4 km. from Otorten, where autotourists Vladimir and Lyuda are parked in a Luaz car. We start to communicate.
We find out that the guys last night (July 31) from this place observed a UFO in the area of ​​the Pechero-Ilychsky reserve. Photographed a UFO.
We filmed the conversation.
The video will open on September 5, 2023 at 17.00 Moscow time:

In the same direction, Alexander Fedotov and Alexei Korolev saw the light shine on February 2, 2023 on a winter expedition from the place where the Dyatlov group tented.
In the same direction, a fireball was filmed by tourists a couple of years ago. Here is a thread I made on the same forum:
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1194.0

[Teddy]

It is frightening to hear about you getting lost and encountering a bear with cubs. How did you get away?

Here is My Bear Story

[Ziljoe]

I'm sure the bear is telling the story to it's friends about the day it met a Teddy and was equally as scared!

[Teddy]

I'm sure the bear is telling the story to it's friends about the day it met a Teddy and was equally as scared!

I am sure she is telling her cubs if they don't behave the hairy woman will take them as she did with the other two and turn them into teddy bears.

[Олег Таймень]

...
12 совпадений:

[Олег Таймень]

[Олег Таймень]

2023 Dyatlov Pass Expedition - Part 1
https://dzen.ru/video/watch/651e79e3c42cd16fea451dbe

2023 Dyatlov Pass Expedition - Part 2
https://dzen.ru/video/watch/6526bb0d816f970013248f31

2023 Dyatlov Pass Expedition - Part 3
https://dzen.ru/video/watch/652e4f4fe07ef5214b0f5c21

https://dzen.ru/video/watch/652f911c01335b6b6d20ce2e

2023 Dyatlov Pass Expedition - Part 4
https://dzen.ru/video/watch/652ce86bc094161c02d2e4d5

2023 Dyatlov Pass Expedition - Part 5
https://dzen.ru/video/watch/65350d8b3333f9592f96ca07

2023 Dyatlov Pass Expedition - Part 6
https://dzen.ru/video/watch/653bb18fde4cb214857689ab

2023 Dyatlov Pass Expedition - Part 7
https://dzen.ru/video/watch/653facece76c281c8914c596

2023 Dyatlov Pass Expedition - Part 8
https://dzen.ru/video/watch/6545bad690699e44bc333e8a