Feet

[amashilu]

Many places on this site mention that there were no scratches or wounds on the hikers' feet, and no tears in the socks they wore. I also remember Yuri Yudin said the mystery that most disturbed him was the clean feet and socks; if they had struggled all the way to the cedar, barefoot or in socks, wouldn't their feet and socks be torn up? I'm not sure if this has been discussed on this forum; I couldn't find anything. But it is strange that the autopsies do not mention torn feet. Doroschenko's autopsy mentions frozen toes, and Krivonoschenko's left foot was badly burnt. Other than that, we are left to wonder how this could be. The only theory that would explain the lack of wounds and injuries on the feet is Teddy's theory of a tree crashing on the tent.

[Axelrod]

Experiment

[Ziljoe]

We touched on this briefly a while back.

In Finland they seem to do snow running in socks as a hobby. I still question this as a Finnish joke on the world? .

It's called Villasukkajuoksua.

There's clips on YouTube showing them running around in fields and woods in just socks. There doesn't seem to be any harm to the socks or feet.

Insulation wise, if there is enough socks and the snow isn't wet, wool should still insulate the feet.  The terrain they are walking on is mostly snow, so technically there's nothing to rip the socks or feet. Perhaps climbing the ceder would cause most harm.

Layers of socks still insulate the feet whether you wear a boot or shoe. Sometimes its worse to jam a foot in to a boot that's too tight with too many socks. It cuts the circulation and there's less space to trap air.

Yuri Yudin is just thinking without thinking. Or someone made up what Yuri said.

[Ziljoe]

There's a few clips on you tube, I still think it's a joke

Here's a clip that seems serious, I can only worry about putting ones foot on a stick! It is in a forest and how I would imagine the conditions for the hikers.


https://youtu.be/009ALVRMUzg?si=wPUnjErQgEndfxIE

[anna_pycckux]

Experiment

I was dealing with this issue and came to the conclusion: it is impossible to run 1.5 kilometers in socks without injuring your feet, because there are 3 stone ridges on the way to the forest.
The experiment of A. Koshkin, who ran on foot in the park, cannot be considered close to the conditions on the pass.
Alekseyenkov's experiment, which was filmed by WAB, is also not clean, because Alekseyenkov himself admitted that he ran in the snow in ultramodern trekking socks. In my opinion, he ran in chunyas (cut-off felt boots). The journalists of the KP newspaper also conducted such an experiment and concluded: IT is IMPOSSIBLE TO RUN IN SOCKS DOWN A SLOPE OF 1.5 KM! watch the first minutes of the video.

[anna_pycckux]

Alekseyenkov's "socks"

[amashilu]

Maybe one or two of the nine could make it a mile over the rocks and snow without foot injuries, but all nine is improbable. Even if they all stepped carefully over the rocks, ice can cut and scratch your feet and ankles, particularly if crusty. What theories have been introduced where the feet and socks of all nine hikers are not torn or injured.

[Ziljoe]

The video I posted shows a woman running , running best she can through a wood and different depths of snow. She has no problems with cold or socks falling off.

If you put the word Villasukkajuoksua into YouTube ,a bunch of videos will come up with people walking or running wearing socks in snow. They run on fresh snow and flattened snow.

The rocks on the slope of 1079 are what I would call boulders , mostly large and avoidable, not rough edged in the way that would tear socks or feet.

The footprints of the hikers exist, these footprints are  booth raised and sunk . This shows they were walking on snow. The imprints show enough detail to show the hikers were wearing socks. The video by Anna even shows the very slope where there's nothing to destroy the feet.

We have numerous videos of people walking and running in snow. Some doing it for experiments and some for fun and sport.

This is not people running on a road in socks or climbing a mountain without snow.

The fact remains, it can be done. There is nothing to destroy the sock . 

Trekking sock is not hear or there and would make little or no difference. In fact the modern sock might be worse.

The journalists of the KP newspaper is exactly that, a journalist!

Use one's own head and eyes. What is there in the environment to harm the sock? Snow only....

and since when did snow rip socks apart ? Never...

We can still have murders , aliens , stagers , winds and avalanche's but there is no need to make a mystery out of the sock.

[anna_pycckux]

Use one's own head and eyes. What is there in the environment to harm the sock? Snow only....
and since when did snow rip socks apart ? Never...

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[anna_pycckux]

What theories have been introduced where the feet and socks of all nine hikers are not torn or injured.

My theory is that no one ran out of the tent in socks. The boys and girls were warmly dressed and in shoes. They were tricked out of the tent.. for example, to help a wounded hunter.

[Arjan]

The surface near the cedar/ravine may have been icy. If I remember well, one person from the first search party has stated that the surface near the stones between the tent and the cedar/ravine had been icy.

An article in 'The Guardian' states:

'Walking on icy streets need not be a downhill experience if you put your socks over your shoes'

and

'Socks over shoes surpass shoes over socks for strolling on slippery city slopes, says a study done in New Zealand. In other words – in the words of the study itself – "wearing socks over shoes appears to be an effective and inexpensive method to reduce the likelihood of slipping on icy footpaths".

Lianne Parkin, Sheila Williams and Patricia Priest did an experiment to test the wisdom of a local winter tradition. The trio, based at the University of Otago in Dunedin, published a report in the New Zealand Medical Journal.

They explain: "There are anecdotal reports that pedestrians who wear socks over the top of their footwear are less likely to slip and fall in icy conditions. Advocates of this practice include our local council (in Dunedin), which advises residents who prefer to walk (rather than drive) in icy conditions to 'put a pair of old socks over your shoes to increase grip'.'

If this is correct, then several group members may well have taken of their boots (or felt shoes) in order to have a better grip on the icy surface of the slope.

Remember: the group members did not have crampons with them on this tour!

Source:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/mar/09/improbable-research-icy-socks-over-shoes

[Ziljoe]

Use one's own head and eyes. What is there in the environment to harm the sock? Snow only....
and since when did snow rip socks apart ? Never...

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Anna, you select extremes to use as evidence instead of the conditions at the time. How many videos of evidence and laws of physics will you choose to ignore?

Anna, use your eyes here.

We can see the raised foot prints in the following video and the nature of the snow on the slope.

https://youtu.be/1MZiZrzTYIo?si=bQYJrGYBTwtlQ6P9

https://youtube.com/watch?v=1MZiZrzTYIo&si=atnTBM6cVT5rpqHR

We can see him walk in socks down the slope in the snow in this video.

https://youtu.be/FAuxkkISqmI?si=VJde9jC4onwpq8Rm

I will repeat Anna, keep your version of murder as you wish, but the fact whether a human could walk to the ceder from the tent without destroying their socks can be done with little harm to their feet.

[Ziljoe]

An interesting observation Arjan.

I also wonder why not one of them used a sock or two as a makeshift glove, especially those that look like they were going back to the tent . It may be they had lost all dexterity of their hands by then and they crawled up the slope with clenched fists, thus giving the injury to the knuckles etc.

[Ziljoe]

Maybe one or two of the nine could make it a mile over the rocks and snow without foot injuries, but all nine is improbable. Even if they all stepped carefully over the rocks, ice can cut and scratch your feet and ankles, particularly if crusty. What theories have been introduced where the feet and socks of all nine hikers are not torn or injured.

I hope you looked at the videos of people walking and running in the snow wearing socks.

Also, here is Video by Alekseenkov (Shura)

https://youtu.be/lOVmADGlX2Y?si=OzPCRcEFxkQhlk3i

https://youtu.be/FAuxkkISqmI?si=tA3zT-4iIwgipJ6r

Obviously this does not answer the mystery but it rules out that it's impossible to walk the slope to the ceder without having torn socks.

The other theories are the hikers were placed where they were found by others or they died where they were found and someone moved the tent to the slope.

However, someone walked down the slope in socks as per the statements regarding the found  footprints. Whether that be outsiders making it look like they the hikers walked down the slope or the hikers themselves, it's possible to walk in socks , we have the recorded footprints!

Fact,people walked down the slope, in socks , at some point before the searcher's arrived and took photos....or....all the statements are a lie and the whole Dyatlov story is a joke for someone's entertainment.

[anna_pycckux]

Also, here is Video by Alekseenkov (Shura)
https://youtu.be/lOVmADGlX2Y?si=OzPCRcEFxkQhlk3i

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[anna_pycckux]

I will repeat Anna, keep your version of murder

I answered Amashilu's question about the versions

[Ziljoe]

Also, here is Video by Alekseenkov (Shura)
https://youtu.be/lOVmADGlX2Y?si=OzPCRcEFxkQhlk3i

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Yes, he walks around and through such boulders. There is snow on the stones . There will be enough snow to take the load and not rip socks and even if there is connection with stones and sock for a short time, it does not equate that socks and feet would come to shreds. A rounded stone is not sharp. I would argue that a twisted ankle would be a bigger hazard .

Someone walked in socks, we have the prints. It just so happens that these footprints lead from the tent to the ceder and where the hikers were found . The hikers were found wearing socks. Coincidence but one that fits?

We cannot ignore the fact that stagers or the hikers walked the slope in socks.

As you suggest , they were tricked out of the tent . What in your version happened after the exit of the tent? Did they fly to the ceder, were they carried, did the KGB march them by gun to the ceder in boots , take the hikers boots and put the boots back in the tent? Then did 8-9 KGB officers walk in their socks to the ceder to make it look like this was the hikers?

Or did the KGB make the hikers walk in thier socks , clean their feet and give them new socks at the ceder? 

[GlennM]

I did not find in the autopsy reports an indication of anybody was wearing a boot the would leave a clear heel strike in the snow. Teddy's expert says the boot print exists on the trail from the tent to the woods. I do not know the style of boots Zolo was wearing, but he was the best clothed of the group. I am supposing that the bootprint in question was leading away from the tent. As far as walking in socks, it is clear that some did. For those who did not have socks on when found, I can not imagine any sane person walking barefoot in the snow for a mile. Does not compute.

[Arjan]

It may well be that around 15:00 pm Lyudmila, Semyon and Thibo had descended from the tent to the ravine and cedar to collect firewood, fetch running water for the night staying in the tent and Lyudmila may well have needed to clean herself with running water.
The content of the diaries suggest that Lyudmila may have had her monthly period at the end of January.

Both Zolotaryov and Thibeaux-Brignolle had been found wearing adequate footwear for a return trip from the tent to the ravine.
Autopsy report of Zolotaryov states:
•   ‘Black quilted felt boots with leather soles with woolen brown socks in them.’
Autopsy report of Thibeaux-Brignolle states:
•   ‘The legs are covered with practically new grey felt boots (valenki). On the right leg are white hand knitted wool socks; the same socks are also on the left leg. There are crumpled brown wool socks located in the soles of the corresponding felt boots.’

Lyudmila had been found wearing to two pair of socks.
The autopsy report of Lyudmila states:
•   ‘On both legs there are torn blue cotton socks with grey wool machine-knitted socks under them.’

She may have taken of her felt boots when she had been standing next to the creek with running water in the ravine to prevent getting her felt boots soaked with water from the creek.
The autopsy reports of Lyudmila may well hint on Lyudmila cleaning herself with running water from the creek:
•   ‘Black cotton tights, torn in the crotch area, with an elastic waistband.’ and
•   On the legs of the body there are light brown cotton stockings. The stocking from the left leg is removed, the right stocking is held with an elastic band.’

[marieuk]

Maybe the people on this forum that have been there could say whether it's possible to walk down the slope in socks without damage or injury.  Having seen it first hand they must have a good idea.

[GlennM]

I suggesr that the test could be done in any country in suitable conditions. We need to know what was worn, thendistance travelled, the comdition of the snow and the result. It is the prerogative of the investigator to draw the first conclusion.

[GlennM]

She may have taken of her felt boots when she had been standing next to the creek with running water in the ravine to prevent getting her felt boots soaked with water from the creek.
The autopsy reports of Lyudmila may well hint on Lyudmila cleaning herself with running water from the creek:
•   ‘Black cotton tights, torn in the crotch area, with an elastic waistband.’ and
•   On the legs of the body there are light brown cotton stockings. The stocking from the left leg is removed, the right stocking is held with an elastic band.’,

It begs àn indelicate question, " How did Russian tourists attend to their needs while on tour?" It also begs the question, " Is this germane to our investigation?"

[Ziljoe]

Maybe the people on this forum that have been there could say whether it's possible to walk down the slope in socks without damage or injury.  Having seen it first hand they must have a good idea.

I suggesr that the test could be done in any country in suitable conditions. We need to know what was worn, thendistance travelled, the comdition of the snow and the result. It is the prerogative of the investigator to draw the first conclusion.

I think a number of experiments have been done regarding walking in socks in snow. The previous videos show this. It's been done on the actual slope from the tent to the ceder and in a city park. We also have the Finish people doing their sport of running in snow. The clip I posted of the woman running through the woods in socks says it was -12.

So we can conclude that walking a mile in snow, in socks ,can be done. Obviously it's not an ideal situation, but if they can't get their footwear then what choice do they have?. You don't instantly freeze the minute you leave the tent. Although they weren't dressed ideally for a night of exposure to the environment, they also weren't naked.

Wind and wetness would be the priority to avoid. If we assume that they had to leave the tent and they could not retrieve anymore equipment then everything follows a logical sequence of survival.

If we just go with the assumption that the tent and it's contents are not recoverable then the hikers have to make a decision.

1) do they just stay where they are?

2) do they use their skills and knowledge to try and survive?

The clock is ticking and it looks like whatever happened at the tent the situation was lost, going to the wood was the decision taken.

We have foot prints from the tent to the ceder that match what the hikers were wearing on their feet. The foot prints lead to the ceder, there are no signs of other footprints, ski trails, helicopters, dogs , wolves on the slope.

If outsiders were involved, how did they go about making these footprints to make it look like the hikers left the tent and went to the ceder, how would outsiders know that these footprints would still be there 3 weeks later?.

Where's the outsiders footprints?.

If we break it into parts ,

1)we have tent pitched on slope correctly.

2)Tent is exited , shown by cuts from the inside.

3) Footprints to the ceder area

4) Fire made from branches of the ceder( best wood for the job)

5) Various items found around the ceder, coins, socks, bits of clothing, branches for insulation. ( Emptying pockets with cold hands looking for matches, dropping items, trying to use handkerchief as tinder?)

6)2 bodies with signs of burns on bodies and clothing. Undressing ( maybe wet from the ravine or paradoxical undressing).

7) Flooring found which coincide with broken/ cut small trees found around the ceder/den area.( Flooring to keep the bodies off the snow or perhaps an attempt to build a big fire? )

8) Four bodies found at ground level next to den under 3 meters of snow. ( Snow hole/ cave?)

9) 3 hikers attempting to return to the tent?

It looks like survival , that went wrong. I think it's too messy and complicated for outsiders to be involved.

[GlennM]

And the notion of " where we go one, we go all" broke down at the cedar. Either they wouldn't or couldn't return as a team. Perhaps they split into 3 groups, perhaps only two. If the ravine 4 team was not by then, physically damaged when Igor elected to return to the tent, there may have been some high words exchanged. I can imagine Zolo, with his military experience, elected to dig in. Igor, on the other hand heroically led a group to retrieve things from the tent. It might have been a cooperative strategy, or an adversarial one. What is certain is that staying put at the cedar was not going to work, irregardless of the weather. In my opinion it was the weather that drove them out of the tent and to their fates.

[GlennM]

Donnie Eichar, in his book Dead Mountain, relates this; Igor was fairly rigid as a leader. One of his requirements was daily foot washing. This would be hard to do at the tent, given the lack of melted ice. It would also be rather pointless to walk a mile in snow to find wash water, just to return another mile to bed. Nobody reported any water heating supplies in the tent and nobody noticed a firepit just outside the tent. Further, the tracks from the tent to the cedar indicate different degrees of foot protection,  as do the footwear found in the tent.

If Igor had this reputation as a highly disciplined and structured leader,  then it seems he broke his own rules perhaps twice. First, there was no hiking plan left at the university and secondly, this " mandatory" footwashing requirement was ignored owing to the location of the camp.

It probably means nothing, but its grist to the mill.

[Arjan]

The most logic camp site near the Dyatlov Pass is of course: a camp site near the ravine or near the cedar.
A camp site near the ravine/cedar provides running water and firewood for the evening and for breakfast next morning

Unless, unless:

In case one or two group members had been injured during the ascend to the Dyatlov pass (and the severity of the injury had not been obvious), it had been possible to return the next day to 2nd settlement or Ushma.

Ascending to the Dyatlov Pass from the ravine/cedar while carrying one or two injured group members would have taken at least one or two hours extra: in that case it would be hard to arrive at 2nd of Ushma within one day.

Possible candidates for being injured during the ascend to the Dyatlov Pass (30 % inclination on average) are:
- Zinaida (found with a bruise on her right side_
- maybe Rustem.

Both Zinaida and Rustem are candidates for placing the other group members in the postures as found by both search parties.
If they had done so: both Zinaida and Rustem had spent the fatal night for the other 7 group members in the re-erected - on one ski-pole - tent using all blankets etc.   

[Arjan]

@GlennM

You raise a delicate issue when I have mentioned the following paragraph about Lyudmila in my reply:

She may have taken of her felt boots when she had been standing next to the creek with running water in the ravine to prevent getting her felt boots soaked with water from the creek.
The autopsy reports of Lyudmila may well hint on Lyudmila cleaning herself with running water from the creek

In my opinion mentioning personal details ought to be omitted, unless some details are essential in solving the cold case. And even then, it ought to be done prudent and discrete.

I have mentioned these details, because it is highly likely that Lyudmila had been standing in the ravine cleaning herself before she had lost consciousness for the last time around 100 milliseconds later, due to being hit by a fatal pressure wave that broke her ribcage, caused her fatal internal bleedings and damaged her eyes as secondary injury caused by swirling - high speed - tiny debris. The same had happened to Semyon, but he had been standing further away from the wall of the ravine. The hollow bottom of the ravine converts the reflection of the pressure wave, causing an increase of pressure between 50 - 100 % of the original pressure

Thibo had very probably been standing at the top side of the ravine (where the reflection of the pressure wave had diverted): the pressure that had hit him had been 50 - 100 % lower than the pressure for Lyudmila and Semyon. Thibo had lost consciousness after around 100 milliseconds: he had tumbled in the ravine, where his head had hit a round stone (with a speed around 30 km/u) causing a broken skull and brain damage.

If this assumptions is correct, then - taking into account all other details found by both search parties - it is highly likely that the pressure wave had hit Semyon, Lyudmila and Thibo around 15:30 pm after the group had ascended the Dyatlov Pass, while they had been fetching running water and firewood for the evening and the next morning.