A blast from the sky

[GlennM]

At about 17 hours 30 minutes Moscow time on September 9 /local time at 1 hour 30 minutes on September 10/ 1958, individual citizens of the cities of Magadan, Tenkinsky and Susumansky districts of the Magadan region, observed a flight from the southeast to the northwest at a high altitude of a luminous object, which, according to preliminary data, fell far from populated areas approximately 600 km northwest of the city of Magadan. According to information received from local residents, a bright flash was observed during the fall followed by a laud explosion.

I believe there were several things that might alert people to areial lights. From the event in 1908, there has been a steady interest in the Tunguska event. In the 60's the butterfly pattern was identified, my point being that Russians were already primed to see a meteorite strike as a possibility. It is fair to say that once you have seen a missile launch, it will not be mistaken for a meteorite. They are travelling in opposite directions. Therefore, meteorites and bolides were already imbedded in the Sovier psyche, anticipating another Tunguska.

Since no meteoric debris is connected to 1079, lights in the country night sky really have no bearing on the events of the fateful night.

[Axelrod]

I looked at the table of space launches in the United States and found a launch on the morning of September 8 at 8 am.
I think it was a flight of this rocket to Alaska for testing, where it was 3 a.m. at that time.
For Magadan it was the night from September 8 to 9. (from 23 pm September 8 to 1 am September 9).

I think the message has a date shift due to a commit error.
In the criminal case of the Dyatlov group incident, we have a newspaper dated February 18, which describes the event on the morning of February 17 as if it happened on the current day.
The criminal case says that the newspaper of February 17 is about the event of February 17, but it is a newspaper of February 18. My aunt was working in practice at this newspaper "Tagil worker" at that time and transmitted this article to Ivanov.

The newspaper described the flight of a space rocket over Altai at 9 am, which was visible from the Urals at 7 am local time.

[WinterLeia]

I’m not entirely sure what you are talking about. The only clipping of a Tagil Worker’s newspaper article that I could find in the case files is dated February 18, and it starts off as: “At 6:55 of local time yesterday…” And I wouldn’t say it was about a rocket launch, but a celestial phenomenon. Yes, that could be a rocket. But it could also be a meteor or an otherworldly fireball, if you happen to be Lev Ivanov. So maybe I missed something?

[Axelrod]

[GlennM]

Do any of us feel that this explains anything? No debris, no chemical burns, no radioactive contamination, no,audible explosion recoded in Vizhay, nothing! This is a distraction I fear.

[WinterLeia]

No, although I do believe that the government might have been worried people would draw that conclusion, even if it was false and they had no proof. As I argued in another post, it could be the reason why Ivanov blamed it all on sentient fireballs and tied a UFO sighting, which happened over two weeks after tragedy, into his theory. Otherwise, I would have to believe he is missing a significant amount of brain cells. Yet, he doesn’t come across as a stupid man.

[GlennM]

That would be a whole lot of people in separate locations to suppress, like Vizhay. Sentient fireballs and UFO's which we regard as a,tired trope were really highly intelligent speculation back then. This is a peculiar rabbit hole of a discussion because it always conjures up the stereotypical Cold War Russian mindset. That always clouds my effort to diffentiate what is truth and what is Soviet spin.

[WinterLeia]

Ivanov did not voice that theory until 1990. And according to Linkin, when the newspaper printed that article about the mysterious light in the sky that several people saw on the February 17th, the government didn’t like it and the editor was told not to print anymore stories like that. I highly doubt that had anything to do with the Dyatlov group. At that particular time, no one knew of the hikers’ fate yet, and people were only just beginning to start getting worried. About the only reason that really makes sense is that the Soviet government didn’t like people speculating about UFOs. In fact, that is the explanation Ivanov gives for why the government aborted the investigation into the case and removed certain documentation from the files. Although, in his version, it wasn’t just speculation, but real UFOs that were responsible for the tragedy.

And if you’re not ready to accept that theory, it begs the question of why the lead investigator was spouting such sensational claims thirty years later. Maybe with the increased public interest in the case and the mystery surrounding the radiation tests, aliens made for convenient scapegoats. It’s not like anyone could question them.

[Ziljoe]

The Soviet Union were playing cat and mouse with the west in 1950's over nuclear capabilities, missile numbers and their accuracy. The USSR were deliberately makeing the Russian missiles look inaccurate to the west from the spy satellites( until the USSR got caught out) .   Rocket testing was also going on with the space race. There is speculation that a certain amount miss information was taking place.

As for the book , Ive not read it but the 90's was big for aliens, UFO's and books. It's just a story that sells I guess.

[GlennM]

All of this implies that the deaths of the hikers is put down to being collateral damage of insignificant civillians during cold war military tactics and disinformation. None of it gets the hikers out of the tent though. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

[Ziljoe]

It would be great to hear evidence for outsiders. I've never heard anything thing better yet. No one has ever put any evidence forward....

[WinterLeia]

Well, I’m not expecting any evidence of Ivanov’s theory because I don’t believe that’s what happened, and I don’t believe that Ivanov believes that’s what happened either. Personally, I think he was more concerned about steering people away from certain theories rather than convincing anyone of what he believed happened.

In any case, there’s just not the evidence for military testing. And what I have seen of proof that outsiders were involved is not the least bit compelling to me. A natural occurrence that was weather or nature related would probably leave the least amount of evidence. So maybe the lack of evidence is the best evidence we’re ever going to get of what really happened.

[GlennM]

It would be great to hear evidence for outsiders. I've never heard anything thing better yet. No one has ever put any evidence forward....
[/quotee]
This would be a worthwhile suggestion for future expeditions to the area to to explore.  It would be a part of local lore.

[Ziljoe]

Well, I’m not expecting any evidence of Ivanov’s theory because I don’t believe that’s what happened, and I don’t believe that Ivanov believes that’s what happened either. Personally, I think he was more concerned about steering people away from certain theories rather than convincing anyone of what he believed happened.

In any case, there’s just not the evidence for military testing. And what I have seen of proof that outsiders were involved is not the least bit compelling to me. A natural occurrence that was weather or nature related would probably leave the least amount of evidence. So maybe the lack of evidence is the best evidence we’re ever going to get of what really happened.

I agree with you winterleia. There was definitely military testing across the USSR of rockets and missiles but not over Dyatlov pass .

The lack of evidence of outsiders is important.

[Arjan]

It is a classic mistake to only look for one cause of an accident (or perpetrator of crime), and thereby omit a thorough investigation of the victims.

In the six part of "The last two days of the Dyatlov group", I have tried to place all details - as found by the two search parties - in a logic timeline that explains in a rational manner the relevant details as described in the post mortem reports and shown on the photos made by the search parties and made in the mortuary.

Within the initial assumptions as mentioned in these parts, the broken ribcage of Lyudmila - as shown on the photo made in the mortuary - had very probably been caused by a blast wave in the air.
Until now, I am only able to explain this fatal injury - without any outside signs on the photo - by a quick compression by the blast wave during a few milliseconds (causing the internal fatal heamorrhage in her chest) followed by an expansion by the underpressure after the blast wave. This expansion/underpressure caused that her ribcage had return in its normal position.

As far as I am aware, the cause/explanation of the broken ribcage of Lyudmila - as visible on the photo in the mortuary - is pivotal for finding a solution for the cause of the fatal last two days of the Dyatlov group.

All other details - as described in the post mortem reports and seen on photos by search parties and post morten investigation - can be explained in one way or another, but the cause of the broke ribcage of Lyudmila can be explained only in one way: quick uniform compression (a few milliseconds) and uniform expansion by an outside cause (underpressure after a blast wave) is the only cause I can think of after a long analysis.


   

[amashilu]

Within the initial assumptions as mentioned in these parts, the broken ribcage of Lyudmila - as shown on the photo made in the mortuary - had very probably been caused by a blast wave in the air.
Until now, I am only able to explain this fatal injury - without any outside signs on the photo - by a quick compression by the blast wave during a few milliseconds (causing the internal fatal heamorrhage in her chest) followed by an expansion by the underpressure after the blast wave. This expansion/underpressure caused that her ribcage had return in its normal position.

Arjan, what you say makes sense. Since we know geologists were working in this general area, and one of their techniques for unearthing uranium was to use blasting, including planting their blasts in the treetops before setting them off, would this kind of blast be able to cause Lyudmila's injuries if she happened to be in the area when one went off?

[Ziljoe]

My only quirk with geologists doing work there or blasting is that it's the middle of winter. The Mansi are prepared and know how to deal with the conditions , the hikers had planned their equipment.  What were the geologists doing there against strong winds and cold , how did they handle the logistics of helicopters, people , food, water ,etc?

Would people really do this work in winter in such a remote area?

I don't think there's any indication or evidence of blasts on the clothing or penetration of the skin and that's why the autopsy confused the investigation. 

[Arjan]

Outside Lyudmila's fatally broken ribcage, there are several other details that may be indicators for a blast wave caused by a epicenter high in the air.

Of course these details can be explained by other causes.

First detail: two pair of missing eyes
In case Lyudmila and Semyon had been standing in the ravine while both had been hit by the blast wave, this blast wave had caused a high speed whirling of small particles, like sand/dust particles within the ravine. These particles may have penetrated the eyes of Semyon and Lyudmila.
Scientific literature on blast injuries describe blast wave victims, that suffered from eye injury caused by high speed particles/dust/sand penetrating the eye ball. This literature also state a warning that this eye injury may be visible one day later.

Remark: instructors in the workplace of my university of technology became very angry when students left a closing key in the mill and when students played with the air pressure hose.

Second detail: foam on the mouth of Yuri Dor.:
Some time after being hit by a blast wave, foam on the mouth may be an indicator of a blast lung, according to scientific literature.

Third detail: tent cut open from the inside
In case a blast wave had hit the tent, the tent cloth had been pressed upon these members during the compression. During the decompression, the tent cloth had been lifted. After the decompression and high winds, the tent cloth had fallen on the group members and there had been a 'white out' for a limited time. After a brief recovery, one or more group members had cut themselves free out of the tent cloth that had been lying upon them.

Fourth detail: Snapped skipole
The photos of the tent site show a possible snapped bamboo ski pole. The compression/decompression may have caused the snapping/cracking of bamboo. Bamboo sticks - thrown in fire - is still used as fire crackers.

Last personal remark:
In six parts, I have tried to arrange the last two days of the Dyatlov group - by arranging the details as found by the two search parties - in an order that make sense, follows the laws of physics, and reflects human behaviour.

In this study, two details are pivotal:
1. Lyudmila's broken ribcage
2. Except very probably Zinaida, all group members had been placed in their postures -as found by the two seach parties - after they had lost consciousness for the last time in the process of hypothermia (and Lyudmila fatal injuried). The raised arm of Yuri Kri is an indicator of being displaced while rigor mortis had already developed in the joints of his shoulder/elbow. This could only have happened within a very narrow timespan, because 24 hours later the bodies had been solidified/set in ice. Either there had been an external 'cleanup party' (no traces found by the first search party!), or two group members had been in the position to place the bodies of their deceased group members to be found by the search party: there had been only one place with an adequate insulation for surviving the cold night: the re-erected tent on one broken(?) ski pole.   


 

[GlennM]

Well thought out ideas Arjan. For me, it always reduces to this," Why would guiltless individuals tamper with the dead hikers bodies?" There is nothing to gain by disturbing the bodies and everything to lose. 60 years later the matter is still not resolved. This is counterintuitive for anyone wishing to deflect attention from themselves. A followup question would be,"Why would guilty individuals tamper with the dead hikers bodies?" There is no point in posturing corpses. There is a point in baiting wolves or hiding the remains. Follow the money! Who gains?

[Arjan]

In my analysis, I have considered that guiltless group members had placed to bodies of the unconscious/dead bodies neatly together in order that these bodies may be easily found by survivers/search parties.

Yuri Kri had been easily found by his raised arm.
Igor had been found because he had been placed upright after been carried until rigor mortis had started in the joints of his limbs.
The four in the ravine had been found, because the had been placed above/next to the running water.

This makes sense for Zinaida and Rustem, who had done so.

Within this analysis, ZInaida had placed Rustem as best as possible upright to be found: rigor mortis had already started at 21:00 pm the next day, so she could not place him in a normal sitting position.

Of course no proof, but (I think) it makes sense in the mind of the victims.