The exhumation is not Semyon Zolotarev

[Олег Таймень]

In the criminal case there is a clear phrase that Semyon Zolotarev was taken for examination “Part of the sternum with surrounding soft tissues” Part of the rib with surrounding soft tissues...” (case file 360). During exhumation, we did not see the absence of part of the rib. Ganz’s conclusions were included in the case in the originals, so they cannot raise any doubts. They unearthed the wrong person from whom they took samples for examination.

[Teddy]

As you say "Part of the sternum with surrounding soft tissues"
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-358-361#360

Sternum is breastbone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sternum



Here is Zolotaryov's breastbone, the detail is from his exhumation photos.
I can see a piece missing, exactly as described in the Histological analyses report.
Why would a random corpse be missing part of the sternum if this is not Zolotaryov?

[Teddy]

There was also a piece of rib taken for histological analysis. Lets look at the exhumation photos for a missing part of a rib.
How can you tell what is broken and what is clipped for histological analysis? And this is just half (one side) of Zolotaryov's ribs.
Just ignore the arrows pointing at cracks, I am using a ready image. But there are plenty of defects on the ribs that could be the places where a sample was taken.
I asked a coroner. Pieces for further examination are clipped from the edge of the rib (one cut), not the middle (two cuts). How do you know that a piece was not taken from the end of a rib?

[Teddy]

This is Zolotaryov's rib cage. At the exhumation he is even missing a whole floating rib. But then again the second rib on our right doesn't belong there, it is a piece of a larger rib.
In any case there is no such thing as "no piece is missing so this is not Zolotaryov".

[Ziljoe]

There is a thread on another site that is quite detailed about the teeth , they seem to be an obvious match with Zolotaryov and the skull.

[Teddy]

There were no dental records but the skull superimposition was made at the time of exhumation by an forensic expert Sergey Nikitin.
https://dyatlovpass.com/zolotaryov-exhumation-2

[GlennM]

Can we know the approximate height of the skeleton and the exact height of Zolo?

[Teddy]

Can we know the approximate height of the skeleton and the exact height of Zolo?

Have you seen Semyon Zolotaryov's height recorded anywhere?
https://dyatlovpass.com/semyon-zolotaryov

[Ziljoe]

The teeth in the lower jaw match the postmortem photo with the exhumed skull ?.

They have a very distinct pattern. I would say it's the same person.

[Ziljoe]

Plus the autopsy report matches the filings/ crowns on upper and lower jaw with the exhumed skull.

On the right side of the upper jaw there are two dental crowns and a tooth of white metal; on the lower jaw there are four dental crowns of white metal

This is photographed on the exhumed skull.

[Arjan]

50 % or less of the answer to the question: 'Can we know the approximate height of the skeleton and the exact height of Zolo?'

The autopsy report of the body who had been investigated under the name of 'Aleksander Alekseevich Zolotaryov', states:

'Findings after the removal of the clothes: the body is male of satisfactory nutrition and proper constitution with a length of 172 cm'

After studying this case for more than 5 years, reading most material available, and following discussions on facebook groups and Dyatlovpass.com,

I am not fully convinced that it has been Semyon who had been investigated by the coroner.

If the description about Semyon in the work or the journalist collective Aleksej Rakitin is correct, than Semyon has very probably been a person with disguises.

Next to this, during several stages of the Great War, it had been not hard for soldiers to shift identity, e.g.: by taken identity papers of companions (e.g. who had died).
Source: Schlechter, Brandon M., The Stuff of Soldiers - A History of the Red Army in World War II through Objects.

Last remarks from my side:

1. the dead body on the table of the coroner under the name of Semyon may have been a local guide: this local guide had known the source in the ravine. He had guided Lyudmila and Thibo to this source for fetching water.
Hint: the tattoos on his arm

2. the person Semyon as described by Aleksej Rakitin had easily been able to survive the fatal night for 7 group members, by staying in the tent together with Zina and Rustem. The next morning he may have returned in the track made by the group before: in this manner, no trace of his return had been visible in the snow, except for a very well trained local person who had been able the track of returning skis in the original track.

[Teddy]

Alexey Rakitin is a pen-name of a group of people who started with science fiction like "Cossacks in Space"
They wrote that Zolotaryov had golden teeth which he obviously doesn't.

[GlennM]

Can we know the approximate height of the skeleton and the exact height of Zolo?

Have you seen Semyon Zolotaryov's height recorded anywhere?
https://dyatlovpass.com/semyon-zolotaryov

Was he not a soldier?  Did he not have an ID card? Forgive my innocence, but I thought it would be an easy thing.

[Teddy]

Can we know the approximate height of the skeleton and the exact height of Zolo?

Have you seen Semyon Zolotaryov's height recorded anywhere?
https://dyatlovpass.com/semyon-zolotaryov

Was he not a soldier?  Did he not have an ID card? Forgive my innocence, but I thought it would be an easy thing.

I have published all the documents I have access to. I don't see height mentioned anywhere in his papers. Also, what does it prove? If a skull superimposition is not enough then I don't see how a height could be more relevant.
It is good to know, but I don't know his height before the morgue. On the autopsy table he was 172 cm. Is this the height of the exhumed body I don't know.

[anna_pycckux]

We must ask Natalia Varsegova all the questions about Semyon Zolotarev. This journalist had a power of attorney from Semyon's relatives to collect materials to find out the cause of his death. At Natalia's suggestion, an exhumation was carried out and all examinations should be carried out. But we still don't know who's in the grave. Regarding tattoos: there is a single photo from the morgue of one hand with tattoos. It is unclear to whom this hand belongs. Precisely because Natalia Varsegova was involved in the investigation of Zolotarev (for a salary!) – the information on Zolotarev remains so confusing.

In the photo, we see the Semyon next to the training participants. And we see that most likely his height was higher than 172, and he did not have tattoos. There was no fashion for tattoos in the 50s. Tattoos were mostly carried out by former prisoners.

[Ziljoe]

This is the video link to Semyon Zolotarev exhumation. There is commentary but it's all in Russian. Close ups of the skull and ribs with discussion. Those members that speak Russian might find something useful.

Personally , I think, all the evidence fits that it is  Semyon Zolotarev.


src="https://www.kp.ru/video/embed/651425

[eurocentric]

I'm convinced by the dental match. That's how modern forensics works for any John Doe, that and DNA.

The pathologist did not seem to have access to x-ray so may have made mistakes when detailing fractures. The x-ray plates would be part of the case-files if he had. It's also possible that bones could break during settlement or if someone stood on the grave.

It's either that or someone put Semyon's skull in a grave with someone else's body, which is the only other conclusion to be drawn from this thread. And thus Theory #98 is born...

[Axelrod]

So I want to ask about measurement units. In English texts, instead of height in centimeters, I meet only feet and inches.
To understand what this means, I bookmarked the correspondence table.

https://www.hockey.dn.ua/index.php/tablitsy-razmerov/155-tablitsa-perevoda-futov-i-dyujmov-v-santimetry


172 cm = 5′ 8″
173 cm = 5′ 8″
174 cm = 5′ 8″

that is, the English use archaic, coarser units of measurement.
I encountered such sloppiness and inaccuracy in the Russian language only in the story “Mumu” about the growth of Gerasim (writer Turgenev).

Does this mean that the English crime report will record Zolotaryov's height as 5′ 8″, which makes one suspect an even greater discrepancy with what was found in the grave?

[GlennM]

Conclusion Hemorrhages in the skin (in the dermis), heart muscle and soft tissues, in the region of the rib fracture without a cellular reaction.

29/V 1959 Forensic medical expert Ganz

I am interpreting the finding written above to mean  that heart and soft tissues were cut or burst by a rib fracture. Further, I am interpreting a cellular reaction as meaning such changes to the damaged area consistent and associated with healing such as swelling, inflamation, white blood cell and platelets migration to the wound. Since there was no cellular reaction, I conclude the fracture and hemorrages occurred after death, the victim being crushed under a heavy weight of snow against a rocky surface. In short, the victim died of exposure and then sustained damage after death.

[Axelrod]

You should ask the experts about this.
If he died immediately after the fracture, then why should a dead person have a cellular reaction?
Another situation is if he was dragged (led) out of the tent for several hours.
It turns out that he was carried down as dead....

[Ziljoe]

So I want to ask about measurement units. In English texts, instead of height in centimeters, I meet only feet and inches.
To understand what this means, I bookmarked the correspondence table.

https://www.hockey.dn.ua/index.php/tablitsy-razmerov/155-tablitsa-perevoda-futov-i-dyujmov-v-santimetry


172 cm = 5′ 8″
173 cm = 5′ 8″
174 cm = 5′ 8″

that is, the English use archaic, coarser units of measurement.
I encountered such sloppiness and inaccuracy in the Russian language only in the story “Mumu” about the growth of Gerasim (writer Turgenev).

Does this mean that the English crime report will record Zolotaryov's height as 5′ 8″, which makes one suspect an even greater discrepancy with what was found in the grave?

They (UK)probably would have reported his height as 5'8" in 1959. The measurement of
human body height varies throughout the day for a number of reasons. This variation can be over 3 cm, so that's over an inch. There will always be discrepancy on someone's true height throughout their lifetime and daily.

Centimetres are used to measure height in the UK but people know what 6 foot tall means , 6 feet  also gives status due to its history, also , 6 inches seems to be an important measurement......

Some things are still measured and manufactured in inches but this is mostly to do with the history of what's been manufactured. I use metric in manufacturing and medical instances but would say I'm 6 ft tall as opposed to 182.88 cm tall. It's just a bit of tradition, I wouldn't get hung up about it.

[GlennM]

My point was to add grist to the mill. If the skeleton is consistent with his height,  so be it. If not, another nail in the coffin.
I still believe it odd for these bones to be dug up and looked over. So far whatever they were supposed to prove has made no significant impact one way or another. If you don't know where you are going, how will you know when you arrive?

[Ziljoe]

I understood your point Glennm. If there was a recorded discrepancy of any significance in height then there my be some argument in who is in the grave. Everything seems to be as it was recorded by those in 1959.

If I remember correctly, the exhumation was done by request of Zolotarev's family , this was independent to the mystery, although there might have been some outside pressure to do so. I'm sure this has been discussed in threads on the forum. ( I remember looking ).

The autopsy reports seem to be consistent with what we find, that includes who was wearing what , what was in their pockets and under their clothes.

[GlennM]

Ziljoe, good to read your reply. Do you get the sense that Zolo's exhumation moves the needle on this mystery? Assuming the remains are his, I suppose nothing but bone was found. No embedded rocks, no rocket, nor bomb shards, no lead and no suspiciously high levels of radiation on hands or anywhere else. I have a distinct feeling this thread reinforces those who advocate for conspiracy, seeking proof from those bones.

If I read the forensic report on DyatlovPass.com correctly, he was dead before any healing could commence. And that points to post mortem crushing injuries.

[Олег Таймень]

It is difficult to tell from this photograph whether part of the sternum was cut out. Probably only a specialist can say for sure.

[Олег Таймень]

Here expert Nikitin takes Zolotarev’s sternum in his hand and we see that it is solid. In addition, the expert does not say that this is only part of the sternum.
https://youtu.be/SBnXzfUFZbk?t=475

[Олег Таймень]

[Ziljoe]

Ziljoe, good to read your reply. Do you get the sense that Zolo's exhumation moves the needle on this mystery? Assuming the remains are his, I suppose nothing but bone was found. No embedded rocks, no rocket, nor bomb shards, no lead and no suspiciously high levels of radiation on hands or anywhere else. I have a distinct feeling this thread reinforces those who advocate for conspiracy, seeking proof from those bones.

If I read the forensic report on DyatlovPass.com correctly, he was dead before any healing could commence. And that points to post mortem crushing injuries.

I try to keep an open mind. It would be great if there were obvious discrepancies, like a completely different description from the autopsy of the teeth for example. Such facts would guide us all in a similar direction, but alas, we have nothing conclusive.

I do look at the photos and try to find anything that would contradict the statements, autopsy and reports etc but ultimately everything seems to be as said. For example, Zina has a comb in her pocket with two broken teeth, this is reported and we can see it in a photo. Slobodin is reported to have had two insoles under his jumper, in his thawed photo by the window, we can see a raised area under the jumper that is most likely the insoles. For me, It's this accuracy that makes it difficult to believe that there's any cover up and by that , I mean with regards to those doing the searching and autopsies , dental observations, skull fractures, missing eyes/tongue etc , it's all reported to be seen and known by the public when it could have been hidden. The details are there and they seem to match up in the most part, including the diary entries , chronological order of events. We just don't have an answer for why the hikers would leave their tent poorly equipped, all we have is nature to blame but I fully understand the approach that it may have been outsiders , but again, there's nothing conclusive.

I'm not expert enough to understand the autopsy  and I'm not sure about when healing starts or stops. Could the cause of the rib fractures be at the actual time of death? If so , could that also reflect the same results of there being no healing?.

My point being, if it was a tree that crushed them or the collapse of a snow cave in the ravine, this would or could have been instant death? .

[GlennM]

Sternum has three parts. I only see two. Does anybody see the upper portion called the manubrium? This part of the sternum connects to the clavicles which are called collar bones in my country. If not, is that fact germane to the record?

[anna_pycckux]

Here expert Nikitin takes Zolotarev’s sternum in his hand and we see that it is solid. In addition, the expert does not say that this is only part of the sternum.

Where is the written expert opinion with the signature and seal, as it should be?