Doesn't Fit

[amashilu]

So many knowledgeable people on this site, who are so good with memory and details, I want to mine those brains by trying this approach: how does Theory X NOT fit? What particular details rule it out?

Starting with the plasma ball theory (posted under the heading Lightning strike / Ball lightning). (https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1714.0) I don't think in 1959 there was much understanding of plasma balls, if they had even heard of this phenomenon back then, and I don't think anyone was aware of the tectonic fault or the magnetic anomaly at that location, so we have to examine this theory in a kind of retrospect, from today's knowledge base.

Three things in its favor are:
1) The balls were witnessed and documented by many people all over the area on the night of Feb 1-2, 1959;
2) They could account for the hikers leaving the tent if one got into their tent; and
3) They account for shock wave injuries and burns. And of course other things.
But what details might rule this theory out?

After that, I'd like to take on the slab slip theory. But let's focus on the plasma balls first.

[Axelrod]

I will try to express my thoughts so that it is clear.

If there are some developments (I hope this word will be clear in English), this does not mean that all of them should be used.
Moreover, this does not mean that every development should be used.

From the point of view of mathematical analysis, we are dealing with an unlimited space, and not with some set from which the desired option must be selected.

The solution to the problem may be beyond the existing set. That is, none of the options available at the moment is suitable.

There is some opinion that is repeated many times. This does not mean that this opinion should be listened to.

For example, one person told me how he was writing a dissertation, and he had to throw out large chapters from the dissertation.
This was a lost volume that had to be compensated for by more useful text. Why did he waste time writing unnecessary etc.? This is a question for him.
But this text was superfluous for the dissertation.

[amashilu]

I will try to express my thoughts so that it is clear.

If there are some developments (I hope this word will be clear in English), this does not mean that all of them should be used.
Moreover, this does not mean that every development should be used.

From the point of view of mathematical analysis, we are dealing with an unlimited space, and not with some set from which the desired option must be selected.

The solution to the problem may be beyond the existing set. That is, none of the options available at the moment is suitable.

There is some opinion that is repeated many times. This does not mean that this opinion should be listened to.

For example, one person told me how he was writing a dissertation, and he had to throw out large chapters from the dissertation.
This was a lost volume that had to be compensated for by more useful text. Why did he waste time writing unnecessary etc.? This is a question for him.
But this text was superfluous for the dissertation.

Okay, thanks, but just for now, let's focus on this topic and see where it leads.

[GlennM]

I think that what ball lightning does is as critical as how it generates. Commonly it originates in electrically stormy weather, though it can be induced from electrical machinery. Ranging in size from a pea to a man's head  they have mobility. Reportedly it may be harmless, but it can also be fatal. Can we ascribe any of the burn injuries to ball lightning? The autopsy findings give no hint that the burns sustained by the DP9 were unusual. Are we thinking Zolo and Dubina were struck?  Was there a detectable smells of ozone or sulfur on the tent or clothes? Is it feasable that the lightning lit up within the tent and scared the wits out of the hikers who then slashed the tent and ran for their lives? The trouble is that these great balls of fire are transient. Without a witnesses testimony or physical evidence on people or things, it can not be proven, nor ruled out. Knowing the weather that night might help. Knowing if the ski poles were metallic would help.

[Arjan]

A very brief comment on ball plasma/lightning.

In physics 'ball plasma/lighting' is an electromagnetic phenomen.

Tiny ball plasma/lighting is seen when e.g. an apparatus is switched on: these sparks are innocent in usual settings, but these sparks are very hazardous in a so-called 'ATEX environment' (explosive, dusty, and/or inflammable vapour environment):

Considerable ball plasma/lightning may occur in nature during 'thunderstorms'; or man-made during high voltage and high current settings.

Henning Kuersten has described and elaborated this phenomen in his book 'The Dyatlov Pass Mystery - NOT a Cold Case'.

The Post Mortem photos in the mortuary show Yuri Dor and Yuri Kri with pronounced 'main vains' on arm (Yuri Dor) and leg (Yuri Kri).
The Post Mortem report of Zinaida states: 'There is a very pronounced venous system on the legs and feet.', while this is not visible on a photo of Zinaida in Swimming suit.

The Google search on keywords 'lightning, strike, victim skin' show many examples of skin injury of victims after being struck by lightning. One example:



These victims show skin injury to the main vains and to the tiny vains, while the photos of Yuri Kri and Yuri Dor show skin injury or malfunctioning of only 'main vains'.

It is far more likely that the skin injury or malfunctioning of the main vains of Yuri Kri and Yuri Dor had been caused by a high speed pressure wave, that had damaged or 'anesthetised' the valves in these main vessels in arm and leg (preventing the blood being pumped upwards in the body by use of moving muscles).

In theory an enormous ball/plasma strike may cause a high speed pressure wave at some distance, but in daily life a low energy pressure wave (audible as thunder or low rumbling) is heard from (ball) lightning that strikes far away.
The normal thunder caused by lightning travels with the speed of sound (330 m/s), while the high speed pressure wave travels with a speed well above the sound barrier.

A high speed pressure wave may fracture ribcages, while I am not aware of a pressure wave caused by lightning causing fracturing ribcages.

 A study of being struck by lightning mentiones only micro fracturing of bones and no macro fracturing of bones as seen in four group members. See further: 'Harnessing Thor's Hammer: Experimentally induced lightning trauma to human bone by high impulse current'
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8710840/

[Ziljoe]

I'm not sure about the existence of ball lightning, in the context of a wondering blob of light, the information about the phenomenon is very vague . I know there's anecdotal evidence but it seems to get confused with old stories and assumptions like glowing clothes because they're radio active .

A bolt of lightning hitting in , or around the tent leaving some kind of ball of light to discharge maybe occured but I don't think it would last any length of time or force them to leave without more clothing/equipment. The burns seem to be quite moderate and tie in with the fire at the ceder and singed socks and clothing . 



Three things in its favor are:
1) The balls were witnessed and documented by many people all over the area on the night of Feb 1-2, 1959;

I can't remember the exact dates of the documented lights or balls in the sky. I think there's only one that matches that date, the other reports are outside of February 1-2, the added problem of reported lights in the sky is that there are always reports of lights in the sky . When an incident occurs , especially unexplained, people will report that they saw some unexplained lights in the sky , in good faith of course but my guess would be they are not linked in this instance..

2) They could account for the hikers leaving the tent if one got into their tent; and

I don't think there's any scientific evidence that this can happen , I know there's some detailed stories of ball lightning but they are poorly investigated . If the light ball could burn clothes and flesh , then why did it not burn the tent

3) They account for shock wave injuries and burns. And of course other things.
But what details might rule this theory out?


I don't think they are shockwave injuries, ( there's discussion somewhere here and other sites that explain why). The burns are small and I don't know of weather conditions that occur that explode to the point of shock wave injuries . If there was a blast , or shock wave at the tent that caused the the fractures ,then I would suspect more injuries. There's very little evidence for ball lightning, shock waves , burning people and everything else , if there was such a thing , I'm sure our governments would have invented some horrid weapon by now.