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Author Topic: Accident & killing  (Read 8603 times)

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January 01, 2025, 05:04:21 AM
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SURI


The tourists split into two groups right from the start, which the second group had no idea about. This is also evident from the photographs. The unsuspecting group was killed and the attacking group became victims of a tragic accident. 5 tourists were attacked and pacified. Then it was just enough to let the frost take effect. But the attackers didn't succeed as they planned and ended up dead themselves. Both Yuris are heroes. By reaching the cedar and climbing the tree, they delayed the attackers, who were then forced to seek alternative shelter in the surrounding area. And we already know how they ended up.
 

January 01, 2025, 05:50:31 AM
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Teddy

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Please define "right from the start" and how (namely) are the hikers divided into two groups.
You wrote "evident from the photographs", can you elaborate?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2025, 06:23:00 AM by Teddy »
 

January 01, 2025, 07:34:04 AM
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SURI


One group is Group 4 in the ravine. They are often seen together in photographs, except for Kolevatov, who preferred not to be photographed much. It wasn't very pleasant for Zolotaryov either. They built a den together and died together. And the remaining 5 are the second group. It is not difficult to distinguish these 2 groups if you notice how each was dressed at the time of death. I think it was no coincidence that Zolotaryov joined the group and Yudin left.

Next, we have a reversed negative from Zolotary's camera, which he had with him at the time of his death. In my opinion, it shows a dying or already dead Slobodin.

I'm new here and I don't know how to add a picture now. shock1
 

January 01, 2025, 07:55:43 AM
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Teddy

Administrator
I'm new here and I don't know how to add a picture now.

Under the field for the post there is a Add image to post option. See if it works.
 

January 01, 2025, 08:18:35 AM
Reply #4
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SURI


Reversed negative from Zolotaryov's camera under the title Woven Mesh. Here, I think, you can see the body of Slobodin.


 

January 01, 2025, 09:31:05 AM
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Senin


that is a damaged film, I take photos on film regularly and develop them myself, you can forget about that roll of film because there is no actual information on it
 

January 01, 2025, 10:20:10 AM
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SURI


I believe it's Slobodin. He may have been still alive, but then his head sank deeper into the snow and his body shifted slightly. His body was found in a similar position.
 

January 01, 2025, 03:02:10 PM
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GlennM


...and I thought they were all out there to get a grade 3 certification. All behavior is motivated. What was it?
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 

January 01, 2025, 10:31:08 PM
Reply #8
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SURI


Apparently there was something more to it. Just as the four of them from the ravine managed to fool other tourists, they have fooled you too. When they decided to attack, it must have been a huge shock for the remaining tourists. Krivonischenko managed to take a picture of the flashlight beam pointing at the tent at the last moment. I think he and Doroshenko were the last to leave the tent. The first to be eliminated was Dyatlov. His body position doesn't even look like he's walking on his own.
 

January 02, 2025, 12:47:41 AM
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Teddy

Administrator
 

January 02, 2025, 01:47:03 AM
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SURI


Hmm, the dimensions are really small. But it's possible that he intended to take a photo of something like that. As evidence for someone?
 

January 02, 2025, 12:14:48 PM
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GlennM


Pareidolia,  I think.
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 

January 02, 2025, 11:31:11 PM
Reply #12
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SURI


I think the whole incident was organized by 4 tourists from the ravine. These 4 tourists chased the other tourists out of the tent, then unplannedly started a fire and made a den. But they originally planned to return to the tent after placing the flashlight on the slope. Their plans were thwarted by both Yuris. I guess it's not that big of a mystery. Any other sequence of events doesn't make sense.
 

January 03, 2025, 05:42:30 AM
Reply #13
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SURI


The only mystery is why the four of them did it. On whose orders? Zolotaryov came to the group already prepared with his secret camera, which even Yudin did not know about. While he was allowed to keep his camera during the incident, Krivonischenko was not, even though he already had it in his hand and ready to take another photo.
 

January 03, 2025, 03:25:22 PM
Reply #14
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GlennM


A gun or knife would be preferrable to a camera, I think.
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 
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January 03, 2025, 03:58:23 PM
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Ziljoe


I don't think the group were against each other at all. There history and lives are all quite well documented, or at least easy to follow. Photos , employment, friends , hobbies etc . I believe Zina and Zolotaryov had options to choose which group they hiked with and it randomly happened that Zolo ended up in this group. The secret camera is a myth and as Glennm suggests , what's the point of a secret camera? To bludgeon the groups to death? To take secret photos of what? Why have a camera to take photos of anything other than the hike?
 

January 04, 2025, 01:11:57 AM
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SURI


Why use guns when the frost solves everything? It would probably be suspicious if 4 tourists returned and the remaining 5 tourists were found murdered in a pool of blood. Judging by the discovery of the bodies, it doesn't appear that the tourists were cooperating with each other. Five tourists died elsewhere and differently than the four tourists in the ravine. And why would Zolotaryov have his camera around his neck during the incident? Probably to document the entire incident.
 

January 04, 2025, 03:21:53 AM
Reply #17
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OLD JEDI 72


Hello, my first ever response so I'll be brief. I tend to favor the idea that there was a fight amongst the group however I think it was the result of vodka they may have pilfered (and were accused of pilfering) and a buildup of aggression to that point.  I'm also not completely sold on the cuts coming from the inside or if they were it was a spontaneous reaction of someone "running their mouth." One thing that nags at me, isn't it possible someone in the group had explosives? I remember Yudin was a geologist, so how did he gather his samples? It would explain the orbs seen if one of them, or several were chucking dynamite around. And also, the injuries.
"Just the facts, ma'am."
 

January 04, 2025, 06:00:48 AM
Reply #18
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SURI


If it had been just an innocent fight, not all the tourists would have participated in it and the two Yuris wouldn't have ended up half-naked on a distant tree. There, it was a fight to the death.
 

January 04, 2025, 08:45:03 AM
Reply #19
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OLD JEDI 72


If it had been just an innocent fight, not all the tourists would have participated in it and the two Yuris wouldn't have ended up half-naked on a distant tree. There, it was a fight to the death.
The two Yuri's were half naked because they were stripped after death and weren't wearing much anyway. And it's not necessary for all of them to have participated physically, such as the four found in the ravine. It could be argued they may have just been the recipients of an enormous blast. It's possible Slobodin and Kolmogorova were actually with that group but survived the blast. It doesn't even have to be a fight but someone trying to get a fire going with katabatic winds raging by using explosives. I know, so many what ifs lol.  read1
"Just the facts, ma'am."
 

January 04, 2025, 08:46:32 AM
Reply #20
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OLD JEDI 72


Reversed negative from Zolotaryov's camera under the title Woven Mesh. Here, I think, you can see the body of Slobodin.


Great observation!
"Just the facts, ma'am."
 

January 04, 2025, 10:37:06 AM
Reply #21
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SURI


There would probably be some traces after the explosion. Slobodin certainly wouldn't have been able to walk that distance with such an injury, let alone crawl out of the ravine. Kolevatov couldn't do it either. And if the picture really shows Slobodin dying, it must have been taken before all four died in the ravine.
 

January 04, 2025, 12:34:31 PM
Reply #22
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OLD JEDI 72


There would probably be some traces after the explosion. Slobodin certainly wouldn't have been able to walk that distance with such an injury, let alone crawl out of the ravine. Kolevatov couldn't do it either. And if the picture really shows Slobodin dying, it must have been taken before all four died in the ravine.
  No traces necessarily after 3 weeks of snow and wind.  So, you're saying Slobodin's massive head trauma was received right where he fell? He might not have even landed in the ravine but was further away from any explosion. Why was Zolotaryov wearing Dubinina's coat and they were so close together? You would think those in the ravine suffered the same event with varying degrees of wounding.
"Just the facts, ma'am."
 

January 04, 2025, 02:42:02 PM
Reply #23
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SURI


Yes, I think the same thing happened to everyone in the ravine. When it happened, they were all together and they all got hurt at the same time. I also think that Slobodin's injury occurred where he was found. Only Dyatlov's location looks like he didn't get there on his own. That back position is so weird.
 

January 04, 2025, 03:45:26 PM
Reply #24
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OLD JEDI 72


Yes, I think the same thing happened to everyone in the ravine. When it happened, they were all together and they all got hurt at the same time. I also think that Slobodin's injury occurred where he was found. Only Dyatlov's location looks like he didn't get there on his own. That back position is so weird.
There's just one problem with that, Slobodin had multiple head injuries, like he fell down over and over again. I guess that fits with your theory if you believe that mesh picture is him and Zolotaryov doubled back, however according to the bodies' locations (for those that don't believe that picture is him), the only person really capable of bashing him on the spot he fell was Zina.
"Just the facts, ma'am."
 

January 04, 2025, 05:30:42 PM
Reply #25
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Ziljoe


Yes, I think the same thing happened to everyone in the ravine. When it happened, they were all together and they all got hurt at the same time. I also think that Slobodin's injury occurred where he was found. Only Dyatlov's location looks like he didn't get there on his own. That back position is so weird.
There's just one problem with that, Slobodin had multiple head injuries, like he fell down over and over again. I guess that fits with your theory if you believe that mesh picture is him and Zolotaryov doubled back, however according to the bodies' locations (for those that don't believe that picture is him), the only person really capable of bashing him on the spot he fell was Zina.

What multiple head injuries did Slobidin have ? The photo negative is a tiny part of the photo , that shows no detail of foreground with equal definition of tone , photography film doesn't work like that , you can't have focus definition and none at the same time.

Slobidin has a small fracture , not massive head trauma?
 

January 04, 2025, 06:12:50 PM
Reply #26
Online

OLD JEDI 72


Yes, I think the same thing happened to everyone in the ravine. When it happened, they were all together and they all got hurt at the same time. I also think that Slobodin's injury occurred where he was found. Only Dyatlov's location looks like he didn't get there on his own. That back position is so weird.
There's just one problem with that, Slobodin had multiple head injuries, like he fell down over and over again. I guess that fits with your theory if you believe that mesh picture is him and Zolotaryov doubled back, however according to the bodies' locations (for those that don't believe that picture is him), the only person really capable of bashing him on the spot he fell was Zina.

What multiple head injuries did Slobidin have ? The photo negative is a tiny part of the photo , that shows no detail of foreground with equal definition of tone , photography film doesn't work like that , you can't have focus definition and none at the same time.

Slobidin has a small fracture , not massive head trauma?
I'm going by the autopsy where it's stated it looks like he fell on his head over and over.

"Boris Alekseevich Vozrozhdenniy suggested that the fracture in his skull could be done with some blunt object. Medical autopsy further states that Slobodin probably suffered loss of coordination due to initial shock right after the blow that could speed up his death from hypothermia. However the conclusion is predictably careful. Death of Rustem Slobodin is judged as a result from hypothermia. All bruises and scratches were blamed on last minute agony. Although it is still somewhat unclear how did he manage to harm his exterior hands and legs. When the person falls even in an irrational state it is usually the palms that suffer the most as well as medial aspects of the legs. Injury to the head are less common, especially bilateral ones. It is also unusual to harm the face and sides of the skull while the back of the head has no damage. In case of Slobodin's body we see the opposite. His injury pattern is a reverse of what we would usually see in injuries suffered by a freezing man in the last minutes of his life. It looks as if Rustem fell repeatedly on his face as he was walking down the mountain. And every time he fell he managed to hit the sides of the his head."  https://dyatlovpass.com/death?flp=1#Slobodin

"Just the facts, ma'am."
 

January 04, 2025, 07:34:01 PM
Reply #27
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GlennM


Never let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy!
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 

January 04, 2025, 08:03:26 PM
Reply #28
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Ziljoe


Yes, I think the same thing happened to everyone in the ravine. When it happened, they were all together and they all got hurt at the same time. I also think that Slobodin's injury occurred where he was found. Only Dyatlov's location looks like he didn't get there on his own. That back position is so weird.
There's just one problem with that, Slobodin had multiple head injuries, like he fell down over and over again. I guess that fits with your theory if you believe that mesh picture is him and Zolotaryov doubled back, however according to the bodies' locations (for those that don't believe that picture is him), the only person really capable of bashing him on the spot he fell was Zina.

What multiple head injuries did Slobidin have ? The photo negative is a tiny part of the photo , that shows no detail of foreground with equal definition of tone , photography film doesn't work like that , you can't have focus definition and none at the same time.

Slobidin has a small fracture , not massive head trauma?
I'm going by the autopsy where it's stated it looks like he fell on his head over and over.

"Boris Alekseevich Vozrozhdenniy suggested that the fracture in his skull could be done with some blunt object. Medical autopsy further states that Slobodin probably suffered loss of coordination due to initial shock right after the blow that could speed up his death from hypothermia. However the conclusion is predictably careful. Death of Rustem Slobodin is judged as a result from hypothermia. All bruises and scratches were blamed on last minute agony. Although it is still somewhat unclear how did he manage to harm his exterior hands and legs. When the person falls even in an irrational state it is usually the palms that suffer the most as well as medial aspects of the legs. Injury to the head are less common, especially bilateral ones. It is also unusual to harm the face and sides of the skull while the back of the head has no damage. In case of Slobodin's body we see the opposite. His injury pattern is a reverse of what we would usually see in injuries suffered by a freezing man in the last minutes of his life. It looks as if Rustem fell repeatedly on his face as he was walking down the mountain. And every time he fell he managed to hit the sides of the his head."  https://dyatlovpass.com/death?flp=1#Slobodin



It does not say that in the autopsy, what you quote is the author of the interpretation of the autopsy in the link. The autopsy concludes the below statement and nothing more or less.

The autopsy concludes this.

Sheet 102

CONCLUSION

Based on the data of the examination of the body of Slobodin Rustem Vladimirovich, 23 years old, and considering the circumstances of the case, I believe that the death of Slobodin was caused by the action of low temperature/freezing, which is evidenced by the swelling of the meninges, the blood-filled internal organs, the Wischnewsky spots on the gastric mucosa, and the third- and fourth-degree freezing of the fingers.

The fracture of the left frontal lobe bone could have occurred during a fall by Slobodin or the impact of the head on a hard object such as rocks, ice, etc. A blunt object caused the above-mentioned trauma. When this happened it would have caused Slobodin to become stunned and allowed for his rapid freezing. The absence of explicit bleeding under the meninges allows for the assumption that Slobodin’s death came as a result of his freezing.

The injuries found on Slobodin’s body in the form of abrasions, scrapes and graze wounds were caused by a blunt object as the result of a fall or injury on rocks, ice, etc.

The damage was caused during life, as well as in the agonal state and post mortem.

The data of the examination of Slobodin’s body allows for the presumption that his last meal was 6-8 hours before the time of death. The presence of alcohol was not detected during the examination.

Sheet 103

- 2 -

Taking account these injuries, in the first hour after they happened Slobodin was able to move and crawl.

Slobodin’s death was violent and accidental.

FORENSIC MEDICAL EXAMINER REGIONAL
FORENSIC MEDICAL EXAMINATION OFFICE - signature /VOZROZHDENNIY/


Where it says , " I believe that the death of Slobodin was caused by the action of low temperature/freezing, which is evidenced by the swelling of the meninges,"

 the meninges are ,

  Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
nounAnatomy
the three membranes (the dura mater, arachnoid, and pia mater) that line the skull and vertebral canal and enclose the brain and spinal cord.

How do we interoperate this?  The swelling is due to freezing is what he states . Let's continue...

"which is evidenced by the swelling of the meninges, the blood-filled internal organs, the Wischnewsky spots on the gastric mucosa, and the third- and fourth-degree freezing of the fingers."

Again he links the above as evidence of freezing .

"The fracture of the left frontal lobe bone could have occurred during a fall by Slobodin or the impact of the head on a hard object such as rocks, ice, etc. A blunt object caused the above-mentioned trauma. When this happened it would have caused Slobodin to become stunned and allowed for his rapid freezing. The absence of explicit bleeding under the meninges allows for the assumption that Slobodin’s death came as a result of his freezing."


In the above statement from the autopsy, it says "could" have occurred during a fall and states it was caused by a blunt object , these potential blunt objects are suggested to be rocks , ice etc.( There were/are protruding rocks/ice) .   

It goes on to say.

"When this happened it would have caused Slobodin to become stunned and allowed for his rapid freezing. The absence of explicit bleeding under the meninges allows for the assumption that Slobodin’s death came as a result of his freezing."

This is a bit more difficult to interpret and is confusing, if he got hit on the head by someone else or an explosion, there should be explicit bleeding. Explicit :The meaning of EXPLICIT is fully revealed or expressed without vagueness, implication, or ambiguity : leaving no question as to meaning

The absence of "explicit" bleeding under the meninges,   suggests freezing , it's a double statement I suppose. He banged his head( or got hit on the head) and that left him to freeze  but he froze so quick that it didn't allow bleeding ?. ( There are some more modern evidence based research that notes fractures of the skull can be a result of freezing).

The statement notes that Slobidin was potential able to move and crawl for an hour.

The abrasions on hands etc are all consistent with hypothermia and fighting for survival. The hands become frozen fists and the palm does not reach out to catch the fall, it is knuckle and outer sides of the hand that inherits the friction of ice and gravity, the limbs and joints start to freeze to the point where a determined individual will crawl to where salvation may await .  No where does it state he fell on his head over and over , in any document.

 

January 04, 2025, 09:17:04 PM
Reply #29
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OLD JEDI 72


Thank you for correcting me, he was a forensic expert and not an autopsy doctor/coroner. I do agree with his view, though, and assessment; you can see skull fractures on both sides and multiple facial abrasions.
"Just the facts, ma'am."