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Author Topic: Rustem Slobodin focus  (Read 24293 times)

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July 31, 2025, 10:42:33 AM
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amashilu

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Brainstorming:
Ignoring everything else, what could have happened to Rustem Slobodin?
His face was badly beaten. His skull was cracked.
His injuries had begun to heal by the time he died, indicating that they had occurred at least a day earlier.

Eduard Tumanov studied Rustem's autopsy report and commented:
Skull crack caused by hard, plain thing with flat contact surface (for example, wooden plank, theoretically — plain, flat rock or stone). Head trauma, bilateral, on both sides of skull, but crack only on one side.


What could have caused these injuries?
(Below is a quote from dyatlovpass.com, the autopsy report and Tumanov's findings, to save you from having to go look things up.)


From dyatlovpass.com:
   1   hemorrhages in the temporalis muscles
   2   minor brownish red abrasions on the forehead
   3   two scratches are 1.5 cm long at the distance of 0.3 cm between them
   4   brownish red bruise on the upper eyelid of the right eye with hemorrhage into the underlying tissues
   5   traces of blood discharge from the nose
   6   swelling and a lot of small abrasions on both sides of the face
   7   bruises in the metacarpophalangeal joints on both hands (bruised knuckles). Similar bruises are common in hand to hand fight
   8   brown cherry bruises on the medial aspect of the left arm and left palm
   9   swollen lips
   10   
   11   fracture of the frontal bone 6x0.1 cm located 1.5 cm from the sagittal suture (showing on separate skull trauma diagram without numbers)

Boris Alekseevich Vozrozhdenniy suggested that the fracture in his skull could be done with some blunt object. Medical autopsy further states that Slobodin probably suffered loss of coordination due to initial shock right after the blow that could speed up his death from hypothermia. However the conclusion is predictably careful. Death of Rustem Slobodin is judged as a result from hypothermia. All bruises and scratches were blamed on last minute agony. Although it is still somewhat unclear how did he manage to harm his exterior hands and legs. When the person falls even in an irrational state it is usually the palms that suffer the most as well as medial aspects of the legs. Injury to the head are less common, especially bilateral ones. It is also unusual to harm the face and sides of the skull while the back of the head has no damage. In case of Slobodin's body we see the opposite. His injury pattern is a reverse of what we would usually see in injuries suffered by a freezing man in the last minutes of his life. It looks as if Rustem fell repeatedly on his face as he was walking down the mountain. And every time he fell he managed to hit the sides of the his head.

From autopsy report:
The right side of the face is slightly swollen. Underneath it are many small abrasions of uneven form and parchment density under a dry crust partially extending to the area of the chin. On the left side of the face are abrasions of the same character; one of them is an abrasion that is 1.2 x 0.4 cm in size under a dry brown crust in the area of the left malar mound. ….. In the corresponding right lobular area and left and right lobular muscles there is a spilling hemorrhage into the soft tissue. There is a bone fracture from the left temporal bone along the direction of the upper forward area of the lobular bone with dehiscence of 0.1 cm and a length of up to 6 cm. The fracture is 1.5 cm from the sagittal suture. In addition to this, there is a discrepancy in the joint temporal-parietal suture on the left and right /post-mortem/. The dura mater is bluish in color, and its vessels are slightly filled with blood. There was 75 cm3 of bloody liquid under the dura mater.

Eduard Tumanov:
Slobodin:
   •   Part of scratches on the face are day old.
   •   Beaten knuckles, also day old.
   •   Skull crack caused by hard, plain thing with flat contact surface (for example, wooden plank, theoretically – plain, flat rock or stone). Head trauma biletarel, on both sides of skull, but crack only on one side.
   •   Loss of consciousness is highly likely immediatelly result of such trauma.
   •   There is no any signs of the death from hypothermia in this autopsy report.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2025, 12:58:35 PM by amashilu »
 

July 31, 2025, 12:23:51 PM
Reply #1
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GlennM


It is reasonable to me that at the time of their last camp site. Rustem was well. It is clear that he was well enough to attempt getting back to the tent with others. I think its likely that Rustem experienced head trauma from a fall on his return to the tent.
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 

July 31, 2025, 12:58:54 PM
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amashilu

Global Moderator
It is reasonable to me that at the time of their last camp site. Rustem was well. It is clear that he was well enough to attempt getting back to the tent with others. I think its likely that Rustem experienced head trauma from a fall on his return to the tent.

But how would he crack himself on both sides of his head?
 

July 31, 2025, 01:34:47 PM
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OLD JEDI 72


A lot of possibles. Whatever event messed up the R4 messed him up also, but because he was noted as the most physically fit, he kept going. Or he and Igor fought to the death, which is my hunch. Igor was frozen into a position suggesting he was being choked or fighting and Zina fleeing both.
"Powered by caffeine and a domesticated Cyberdyne prototype."
 

July 31, 2025, 01:55:06 PM
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SURI


Slobodin's one shoe suggests he was in distress. It is hard to imagine that he was returning from a cedar in distress. Zina was also in such distress that she couldn't even put on a mask, even though she had one with her. It is true that both fell, but through no fault of their own. They fell after being knocked down and pressed face down to the ground. Slobodin couldn't take the other shoe, Zina couldn't take the mask. And Dyatlov? He didn't even move.
 

July 31, 2025, 03:56:44 PM
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SURI


Dyatlov had 1000 cm³ of urine in his bladder. He lay motionless for a long time. He was the first one chosen by the threat in front of the tent.
 

July 31, 2025, 06:46:53 PM
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ahabmyth


Rustem Slobodin. Hypothesis , Zina , Rustem and Igor set off back to the tent. For whatever reason a fight erupts as they walk into the rock field ,Rustem loses his shoe (flat object) which Igor picks up and uses to hit Rustem across the face ,Rustem falls down hitting his head on a rock (injuries to both sides of head)  ,Igor falls down with exhaustion and succumbs to the cold, Rustem although dazed keeps going up the hill until succumbing to his injuries, meanwhile Zina who had initially took sides with one of the boys and threw a few punches herself  manages to get even further before succumbing to hypothermia.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2025, 08:06:39 PM by ahabmyth »
 

July 31, 2025, 09:28:51 PM
Reply #7
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GlennM


You would think that combatants in a skull crushing fight would go their separate ways. Since they did not, a more palatable explanation is that being exhausted and numb from the cold, Rustem took a hard fall, gathered himself and made for the tent. Significantly, when he fell for last time his body melted snow which turned to ice. The single most important take away from this is that it means he was making for the tent. Therefore, the idea that the tent was relocated from the forest to the slope as some sort of half formed conspiracy is meritless.
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 

August 01, 2025, 12:57:18 AM
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SURI


Slobodin only turned around while descending and was immediately knocked down, perhaps before that he had managed to shout - run, and Zina ran a few meters from the turning point before she was stopped too. She chose the way up, the 2 Yuris the way down (because of Dyatlov). Dyatlov no longer chose anything, he no longer knew anything.
 

August 01, 2025, 06:48:01 AM
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Ziljoe


The body positions of the hikers on the slope are well in the scope of how people dying from hypothermia are found. There are numerous pictures to be found of recent deaths from hypothermia in a number of modern journals. They are clinical and evidenced based sources for medical people sharing resources . A number of the pictures show very similar body positions to all the hikers apart from the ravine 4.
 

August 01, 2025, 10:52:53 AM
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amashilu

Global Moderator
The body positions of the hikers on the slope are well in the scope of how people dying from hypothermia are found. There are numerous pictures to be found of recent deaths from hypothermia in a number of modern journals. They are clinical and evidenced based sources for medical people sharing resources . A number of the pictures show very similar body positions to all the hikers apart from the ravine 4.

But Slobodin had been hit hard on both sides of his head, one side hard enough to crack his skull. This isn't hypothermia. This is why I chose to ask about Slobodin in particular; what could have caused his head trauma?
 

August 01, 2025, 12:01:19 PM
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Ziljoe


The body positions of the hikers on the slope are well in the scope of how people dying from hypothermia are found. There are numerous pictures to be found of recent deaths from hypothermia in a number of modern journals. They are clinical and evidenced based sources for medical people sharing resources . A number of the pictures show very similar body positions to all the hikers apart from the ravine 4.

But Slobodin had been hit hard on both sides of his head, one side hard enough to crack his skull. This isn't hypothermia. This is why I chose to ask about Slobodin in particular; what could have caused his head trauma?

Good question as always amishila , I was trying to formulate a response , it's just way out of my knowledge base . I have to Google each medical word , get a definition, translate the dyatlovpass interpretation in English, look at in Russian and also translate the Russian version. There's lots of small errors and it's difficult to go back and forth , copy and paste and the site seems to keep lagging.

Anyhow ...... Here's some thoughts from reading other forums / documents etc. We must also remember that hypothermia is difficult to determine even today but there's been progress in gathering data with modern research and technology.

The autopsy :

 it says what it says, a bang/ blow to the head , falling is put forward for the main suspected reason.  Logical enough I suppose.

Quite a possible explanation, there were reports of the searchers injuring themselves on the slope , if I remember correctly one had to be taken for medical treatment the injury was that serious, another was one of the students I think but that was from skiing. The slope is known to get slippy and falls for well equipped healthy people without the detrimental effect and onset of hypothermia still manage to get in trouble.

There is zero question that Slobodin would have been feeling the effects of hypothermia. Being the fittest or strongest does not mean much against the cold , DNA and being a fat person may have helped more. It all depends on the affect of the temperature loss and the following decision making .

hypothermia is most likely the cause of Slobodin's death and that is why we get stuck. If he was fit and healthy and marching up, or down the slope or perhaps standing still , would he have died ? I think he probably would have eventually,if the weather is cold etc.

So if slobodin was feeling the effects of heat loss as he had been exposed to the cold for a certain time , it is possible that he started to fail ( as did the others) . A crack to the head on a slope where stones stick out is possible, especially when your reactions are dulled . I've mentioned the incident in the UK about the teacher with frostbite crawling in the snow to try to get help, her legs were frozen bent and her hands were frozen and clenched when the helicopter team found her alive  .

All of the Dyatlov group were probably in the same situation and losing heat. It's just a countdown really unless you can get warm and warm quickly. If you can't strike matches , button your clothing or use your hands , you're in trouble . The mention of falling would be more of a trip , than a fall but if your body is not working, I would suspect the hands would be clenched in fists to stop any fall if the arms would even move at any great speed .

There's other theory's too, and that is the freezing of bloods and fluids in the brain . This is to do with the expansion of the freezing fluid and the potential cracking and distortion of the skull. It has been recorded to have occurred in freezing patients in controlled conditions , medical labs etc. But it is the lower internal part of the skull which is thinner.

Now, I've tried to work out the difference of all the words , as to what's a bruise v hemorrhage , the muscle names etc etc. And there does seem to be links to hemorrhage and hypothermia. Diffuse hemorrhage ,fluid around the sack of the lungs and a host of other things are linked to hypothermia , it's something to do with the muscles over working when shivering and the way blood looses it's properties and viscosity in the cold. It tends to be the bigger muscle groups tho there is some mention of the temporal muscles . So , I'm still trying to workout what it's all about by being able to take possibilities away , which I can't seem to do. I don't know if these injuries represent a whack to both sides of the skull or just part of bleeding.

The autopsies don't seem to be covering anything up , it's just research on these types of cases and death from hypothermia don't have many examples to study, especially in 1959.

There is quite a bit in the ravine 4 autopsy that does suggest crushing and asphyxiation. In very very basic terms ( as I don't really know what I'm talking about) , the blood, fluids , veins , blood around the heart etc are found in landslide victims.
 

August 01, 2025, 12:26:22 PM
Reply #12
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GlennM


"Slobodin had been hit hard " vs "Slobodin had  hit hard " . A significant difference in meaning stemming from one's style of writing.  "Has been hit hard" may mean an assault or it may mean a consequential injury from an accidental fall. " Had hit hard" assumes no other assailant, unless specified.

Medical examiners will draw comparisons to familiar and commonly observed injuries. Perhaps slip/ fall on icy rock is so much less frequently identified compared to assaults and blast(explosion).
« Last Edit: August 01, 2025, 02:52:15 PM by GlennM »
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 

August 01, 2025, 02:44:24 PM
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amashilu

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" his skull looks like  he fell on a rock" instead of " his,skull looks like,someone hit him with a blunt instrument" 

Yes, good point, and I agree language is very important.
Tumanov said "Skull crack caused by hard, plain thing with flat contact surface (for example, wooden plank, theoretically — plain, flat rock or stone). Head trauma, bilateral, on both sides of skull, but crack only on one side."

Just trying to figure out how Slobodin would hit himself on both sides of the head with a plank or hard plain flat rock. It just doesn't easily come to my imagination that he fell down twice and whacked his head both times on a hard, plain rock.
 

August 01, 2025, 05:10:32 PM
Reply #14
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GlennM


If he fell and something fell on him, that would suffice. If he was crushed and compressed, that would work. Being cold, numb and running out of energy, could explain his instability. These things to me are more likely than someone, a friend, attacking him.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2025, 07:18:21 PM by GlennM »
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 

August 01, 2025, 08:09:30 PM
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Ziljoe


" his skull looks like  he fell on a rock" instead of " his,skull looks like,someone hit him with a blunt instrument" 

Yes, good point, and I agree language is very important.
Tumanov said "Skull crack caused by hard, plain thing with flat contact surface (for example, wooden plank, theoretically — plain, flat rock or stone). Head trauma, bilateral, on both sides of skull, but crack only on one side."

Just trying to figure out how Slobodin would hit himself on both sides of the head with a plank or hard plain flat rock. It just doesn't easily come to my imagination that he fell down twice and whacked his head both times on a hard, plain rock.

I am not sure that the autopsy is implying that he fell twice and hit both sides of the head. Other investigators are saying that. This is where I'm extremely weak on knowledge but I'm trying my best.

It might be the one fall / slide and impact , by stone , plank or human with hitting with something blunt.

As I understand it, all people you refer to believe it was a blunt force, that is to say , it wasn't a pointy or jagged rock or weapon because their seems to be no penetration to the skull. This I believe is the conclusion to the fracture in the skull , not the hemorrhage to the sides of the skull.

The case files say in the autopsy

(This is the English version on the dyatlov site below no.1)

1)In the corresponding right lobular area and left and right lobular muscles there is a spilling hemorrhage into the soft tissue. There is a bone fracture from the left temporal bone along the direction of the upper forward area of the lobular bone with dehiscence of 0.1 cm and a length of up to 6 cm.

From what I can see , the word lobular doesn't belong here. A spilling hemorrhage phrase seems to be outside of the body , so the translation seems wrong.


(This is the Russian version from the dyatllov site then translated by Google below no.2)

2)Accordingly, in the right frontotemporal region, the region of the left and right temporal muscles, there are diffuse hemorrhages with impregnation of soft tissues. From the anterior edge of the squama of the left temporal bone in the direction forward and upward of the area of the frontal bone, there is a bone crack with a divergence of edges of up to 0.1 cm, the length of the crack is up to 6 cm.

The Russian Google translation reads different. Depending on how you read it , he mentions , "in the right frontotemporal region" ....comma ...."the region of the left and right temporal muscles" ....."there are diffuse hemorrhages with impregnation of soft tissues".

Is it just one side or two that got blows? It reads like it's only one side if you use the comma.

It goes on to say

"In addition, there is a divergence of sutures in the region of the temporoparietal suture on the left, as well as on the right /postmortem/"

Is this movement/ divergence of the sutures postmortem?




The conclusion to the autopsy goes on to say.

"...I believe that SLOBODIN's death was caused by exposure to low temperatures /freezing/ as evidenced by: swelling of the meninges, plethora of internal organs, Vishnevsky spots on the gastric mucosa, third and fourth degree frostbite of the fingers of the upper extremities."....

..."The absence of a clearly expressed hemorrhage under the meninges gives grounds to believe that SLOBODIN's death occurred precisely as a result of his freezing."...

Skiing, cutting wood , putting up tents , traveling through woods and rough terrain will all give ample opportunity for all sorts of cuts and abrasions , some have to be ignored, which ones who knows. Add to that a night of survival, climbing trees , breaking branches with bear hands, then there will be cuts scrapes and bruising, especially those in the region of unprotected and exposed skin .

I guess he could have still been hit by someone with a blunt instrument but irrelevant of the reason for leaving the tent whether it be man , beast , alien, KGB , secret rockets , avalanche or whatever, the 9 bodies were distributed across a mile or 1.5 km of a mixture of terrain including , Ice , soft snow, hard stones , trees with branches ( they like to ping you in the face , especially in the dark) , streams , embankments, ravines and slopes.

For me ,the odds are that Slobodin took a fall, deteriorated from cold whilst pushing him self on the surface of the fresh snow and hard snow beneath. The position of his wool hat looks like the last effort to drive forward.
 

August 01, 2025, 10:01:13 PM
Reply #16
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GlennM


Rustem's head was fractured on one side, bruised on both temples. Freezing will serve to enlarge the crack as the water in the brain expands. Conspiracy theorists will be pleased to ponder if Rustem fought with one hand tied behind his back, or so suggests the autopsy report. Speaking of hands, I would expect to see the defensive bruises or wrist bone damage indicative of Rustem attempting to break his fall. Since this is lacking, Ithink he was in the last stages of exhaustion when he slipped and cracked his skull. It probably happened on the lowest rocky ridge on the way back to the tent.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2025, 10:24:28 PM by GlennM »
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 

August 01, 2025, 11:08:47 PM
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Ziljoe


Rustem's head was fractured on one side, bruised on both temples. Freezing will serve to enlarge the crack as the water in the brain expands. Conspiracy theorists will be pleased to ponder if Rustem fought with one hand tied behind his back, or so suggests the autopsy report. Speaking of hands, I would expect to see the defensive bruises or wrist bone damage indicative of Rustem attempting to break his fall. Since this is lacking, Ithink he was in the last stages of exhaustion when he slipped and cracked his skull. It probably happened on the lowest rocky ridge on the way back to the tent.

Such an interesting debate , I lack the knowledge and find myself ever more frustrated at my own language barrier from Russian to English. ( And medical terminology)

An up hill fall seems more likely for an injury to the temporal region. I don't know if the diffuse hemorrhage could be caused by the injury to the skull? As in bleeding from the brain and spreading to the temporal muscles region.

 If it were a bruse would they not report a hematoma? There is a lot about the coagulation of blood in cases of hypothermia so I don't know if this would have an effect on what was found from a trauma injury when freezing conditions are involved as to normal temperature.

With an impact that could fracture the skull , would there not be quite a lump during life that would be frozen at the time that would then be noticed during the autopsy?.

I e got myself a bit involved in autopsy definition on the internet and i might be over thinking it. It's a new angle to look at the mystery from and any errors in information may help I suppose.

I'm at a stage where I'm starting to suspect the source information.
 

August 01, 2025, 11:12:33 PM
Reply #18
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ahabmyth


Kurumniki - dont think I would go through that in the light.





Could have had something to do with injuries in the dark.--- Kurumniki . You can see the searchers at the bottom of the slope saying to one another "You go first" and another "No I went first last time" then "What about you, you never go first". etc etc.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2025, 05:38:39 PM by ahabmyth »
 

August 02, 2025, 12:26:48 AM
Reply #19
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Ziljoe


ahabmyth, yes , it's a boulder field under the snow , or even when there's a good snow fall.

I've now found the old link to the freezing and expanding skull examples which also links to the thawing of the changed blood after freezing which may have been part of the hemorrhage observed. The situating of slobodin's hat and exposed neck may have contributed to the fracture occurring this way.

I believe the autopsy is actually telling us that the divergence of the bones is a result of freezing .

Autopsy of slobodin below. ,

"In addition, there is a divergence of sutures in the region of the temporoparietal suture on the left, as well as on the right /postmortem/"
 

August 02, 2025, 03:51:59 AM
Reply #20
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ahabmyth


ahabmyth, yes , it's a boulder field under the snow , or even when there's a good snow fall.

I've now found the old link to the freezing and expanding skull examples which also links to the thawing of the changed blood after freezing which may have been part of the hemorrhage observed. The situating of slobodin's hat and exposed neck may have contributed to the fracture occurring this way.

I believe the autopsy is actually telling us that the divergence of the bones is a result of freezing .

Autopsy of slobodin below. ,

"In addition, there is a divergence of sutures in the region of the temporoparietal suture on the left, as well as on the right /postmortem/"
Sorry but I am not an orthopedist. I had forgotten in the autopsy reports of a body with a distorted neck , looks like it was Slobodin.Was this a miniscule distortion or dicernible occurance. I have read some of the reports that talk of .3cm of something , looks like they cant spell 3mm.
 

August 02, 2025, 04:59:11 AM
Reply #21
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Ziljoe


ahabmyth, yes , it's a boulder field under the snow , or even when there's a good snow fall.

I've now found the old link to the freezing and expanding skull examples which also links to the thawing of the changed blood after freezing which may have been part of the hemorrhage observed. The situating of slobodin's hat and exposed neck may have contributed to the fracture occurring this way.

I believe the autopsy is actually telling us that the divergence of the bones is a result of freezing .

Autopsy of slobodin below. ,

"In addition, there is a divergence of sutures in the region of the temporoparietal suture on the left, as well as on the right /postmortem/"
Sorry but I am not an orthopedist. I had forgotten in the autopsy reports of a body with a distorted neck , looks like it was Slobodin.Was this a miniscule distortion or dicernible occurance. I have read some of the reports that talk of .3cm of something , looks like they cant spell 3mm.

Orthopaedic is derived from Greek ortho is to straighten or make correct. This much I know but little else.

I think It's from https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-345-348 Autopsy report of Kolevatov

"The neck is long and thin, and deformed in the area of the thyroid cartilage. The thorax is rectangular in shape. The surface layer of the epidermis is slipping from the skin covering the chest." He was in the ravine though.

The translation may be the problem. Slobodins skull may have fractured from the freezing process , they seem to say at least that the shivt in the sutures was postmortem, after he died. There is a Russian clinical evidence based description of this happing to some other young person in 1960ish. 
 

August 02, 2025, 05:25:52 AM
Reply #22
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Partorg


Quote from: amashilu
Just trying to figure out how Slobodin would hit himself on both sides of the head with a plank or hard plain flat rock. It just doesn't easily come to my imagination that he fell down twice and whacked his head both times on a hard, plain rock.

Hemorrhages in both temporal muscles could have been caused in two ways. Either by a blow from a blunt hard object to one temple followed by a fall on a hard surface with the other temple.  This is almost an ideal option for the version with injury from a snow slab running over the tent.
The second method could be implemented during the descent to Kedr, on the icy and rather steep section of the 3rd stone ridge.  Having slipped and fallen with his left temple on a stone, he received a bone fracture (most likely not a frontal one, but a parietal one, but that is not the point) + a contusion which, as they write in textbooks, leads to “impaired balance, coordination and uncertainty in movements”. That is, having stood up and trying to continue the descent in a stunned, semi-conscious state, he fell again, this time to the right and received a bruise to the right temporal muscle.  After some time, his condition improved and he apparently took part in everything the group did next - from making a fire to digging a niche in the side snowdrift of the Ravine.  He died from general hypothermia, like the entire trio on the Slope, while trying to reach the tent and dig out there, if not all, then at least some of the clothes, shoes and blankets that were absolutely necessary to complete the construction of the snow shelter.
 

August 02, 2025, 05:57:29 AM
Reply #23
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ahabmyth


Have you ever followed someone at school, work, at the pub, in a queue etc etc so close that you fell or pushed them. Could be at some stage in a blizzard that the group used a buddy system or similar of hand on shoulder routine for walking through this Korumbiki area, but someone has to go first. Could be Rustem went first and someone fell (inadvertently) on top of him compounding or causing his head injury. Or it was just the correct shape rock capable of causing the injury. Either way we will never know but nothing is impossible. I hate Korumbikis.  cry2 .Unless they are chocolate.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2025, 06:02:38 AM by ahabmyth »
 

August 02, 2025, 12:06:45 PM
Reply #24
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amashilu

Global Moderator


Such an interesting debate , I lack the knowledge and find myself ever more frustrated at my own language barrier from Russian to English. ( And medical terminology)

An up hill fall seems more likely for an injury to the temporal region. I don't know if the diffuse hemorrhage could be caused by the injury to the skull? As in bleeding from the brain and spreading to the temporal muscles region.

 If it were a bruse would they not report a hematoma? There is a lot about the coagulation of blood in cases of hypothermia so I don't know if this would have an effect on what was found from a trauma injury when freezing conditions are involved as to normal temperature.
With an impact that could fracture the skull , would there not be quite a lump during life that would be frozen at the time that would then be noticed during the autopsy?.
I'm at a stage where I'm starting to suspect the source information.

My purpose in this thread is that I'm thinking it could be helpful to focus on just one fact at a time, instead of collecting theories about the incident as a whole. Rustem's injuries are interesting enough that I decided to start there. I have fallen in ice and snow countless times, but never smacked both sides of my head, so this is puzzling and hard for me to imagine how it happened. I am also very curious about the bruised and cut hands, where the injuries were a day old! Guess I'll start another thread about that one.
 

August 02, 2025, 02:08:45 PM
Reply #25
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SURI


That is, having stood up and trying to continue the descent in a stunned, semi-conscious state, he fell again, this time to the right and received a bruise to the right temporal muscle.  After some time, his condition improved and he apparently took part in everything the group did next - from making a fire to digging a niche in the side snowdrift of the Ravine.

So Slobodin was Superman. grin1
 

August 02, 2025, 05:31:50 PM
Reply #26
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ahabmyth




Such an interesting debate , I lack the knowledge and find myself ever more frustrated at my own language barrier from Russian to English. ( And medical terminology)

An up hill fall seems more likely for an injury to the temporal region. I don't know if the diffuse hemorrhage could be caused by the injury to the skull? As in bleeding from the brain and spreading to the temporal muscles region.

 If it were a bruse would they not report a hematoma? There is a lot about the coagulation of blood in cases of hypothermia so I don't know if this would have an effect on what was found from a trauma injury when freezing conditions are involved as to normal temperature.
With an impact that could fracture the skull , would there not be quite a lump during life that would be frozen at the time that would then be noticed during the autopsy?.
I'm at a stage where I'm starting to suspect the source information.

My purpose in this thread is that I'm thinking it could be helpful to focus on just one fact at a time, instead of collecting theories about the incident as a whole. Rustem's injuries are interesting enough that I decided to start there. I have fallen in ice and snow countless times, but never smacked both sides of my head, so this is puzzling and hard for me to imagine how it happened. I am also very curious about the bruised and cut hands, where the injuries were a day old! Guess I'll start another thread about that one.
Its a hard call on exactly how Rustem got these injuries but suffice to say he endured them only to carry on maybe by being physically fit (couple of Panadol) and he's right to go. With the autopsy indicating the injuries were healing and in all probability happened the day before. The group was skiing down the Auspiya River I think ,so maybe a fall on the ice could had made these injuries or at least one.
 

August 02, 2025, 11:24:08 PM
Reply #27
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Partorg


Quote from: SURI
So Slobodin was Superman
Vozrozhdenniy in the summary section of the Act writes about the possibility of a short-term stupefaction. And none of the experts, if my memory serves me right, who spoke about this injury later, considered it serious enough to make a person incapacitated.
 

August 03, 2025, 11:20:04 AM
Reply #28
Online

GlennM


For me, Rustem's significance is that ice formed around his dying body. He was alive when he fell and he fell trying to regain the tent. The significance is (1) the tent was pitched on 1079, not the woods (2) getting back to the tent required no light or wood burning torch (3) the tent contents were considered salvageable, implying that there was no anxiety about everything scattering in the wind. (4) that the tent had sufficient weight in it and suport to make it visible (5) that Igor, Rustem and Zina were going to return to the ravine with emergency supplies is more than probable. 
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 

August 03, 2025, 03:21:02 PM
Reply #29
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OLD JEDI 72


Focus on why the guy had only one shoe on, and the other was accounted for in the tent. Maybe the first event hurt him the worst?
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