Dyatlov group's footprints on the slope, why icy?

[SURI]

It's such a puzzle. The unknown force was not always in one place. When the hikers descended the slope, the unknown force was no longer at the tent, yet they could not all return. At that moment, the unknown force was not even in the forest, otherwise the 2 Yuris would not have sought shelter there.

[ilahiyol]

It's such a puzzle. The unknown force was not always in one place. When the hikers descended the slope, the unknown force was no longer at the tent, yet they could not all return. At that moment, the unknown force was not even in the forest, otherwise the 2 Yuris would not have sought shelter there.

The unknown force was everywhere because of its speed. I can't say exactly how fast, but it was definitely at least 20-25 km/h. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been possible for it to catch Rustem, a runner, as he was running. Rustem caught up with him as he was running and struck him in the left temple. Rustem fell face down on the ground. And I'm sure he had been watching the young people since the beginning of the march. Why did he want to kill them? That's what really concerns me.

[SURI]

Yes, the unknown force was everywhere, but not all at once. It was at the tent for a while, on the slope for a while, by the cedar tree for a while, and for a long time in the ravine.

[ilahiyol]

Yes, it's impossible for him to be everywhere at once. He was where he could track them. So, he wasn't very far away. First, he killed Dytlov, then Rustem, then Zina. Then the four hiding in the snow... And the two Yuris died of the cold a day or two later, or within an hour or two. They died on the fire. Then a Mansi arrived. I don't think the Mansi people frequent that place!!!! But they must have heard a loud scream. It was probably Dubinina's. The Unknown Power may have torn out her tongue to prevent her from screaming so much. And the two Yuris may have screamed from the cold. The Mansi or Mansi people who heard these sounds came to the scene. They saw the two Yuris dead on the fire. They picked them up from the fire and laid them side by side. They must have found the tent, but they didn't search it. They were afraid they would be blamed!!! And they must have placed the lantern in the tent. Then they disappeared without a trace. After all, the Mansi are experts at this.

[ilahiyol]

I don't know how close the Mansi were to that area(?), but the sound of their screams can carry at least 5-10 km in the mountains. And the Mansi have much better hearing than the average person. They might have heard Dubinina's scream and the two Yuris' cries from the cold. They might have come to the area and made some changes. But they hid everything because they were so afraid of being accused. It would have been very difficult for them to exonerate themselves in such a situation. The fact that the two Yuris were standing side by side is proof that they weren't directly attacked, but were brought together by someone. I think it was the Mansi.

[ilahiyol]

I believe that if they are still alive, we need to find the Mansi or Mansi who witnessed the incident and get them to talk. Because Mansi are involved. They are not guilty, but they may have witnessed the incident. They could shed some more light on the incident. But 66 years after the incident, it's unlikely they're still alive. Or they could be in their late 80s or 90s now.

[Senior Maldonado]

When the snow temperature is from 0 to – 6°C, the snow moisture content (the ratio of the mass of the liquid phase (water) to the mass of dry crystals) is about 1–1.3%, and the mold pressed by the foot acquires a density and strength sufficient to resist wind erosion, and a subsequent decrease in temperature turns it into something like white “hockey” ice which can survive until spring and be the last snow that melts surrounded by the first grass.

I want to return to this theory, which I am to admit is strong.

If I have understood correctly, during the day of February 1st snow temperature on the slope was in the range [0C..-6C] and moisture index was 1.3%. When the hikers went down the slope, their feet pressed wet snow thus increasing moisture index, and the prints later became icy. This is clear and triggers no questions. The question is why the group's ski track from the Rock on DP to the tent's site had not preserved. The group members went on skis one after another, so pressure on the snow should be x9. Even more water should be pressed out of snow in ski track and then freeze. The ski track should be visible first of all. Why did natural processes work different on such limited territory? What is your explanation?

[Ziljoe]

I would guess a number of variables come into play .

I think there is less snow on the pass. The wind blows the snow off the top of the pass and all the hight exposed hill tops or flat areas. Obviously there will on occasion be no wind and the snow will maybe gain some depth. If the weather conditions allow , this snow may become hard also. If there is sun through the day it can warm the surface of rocks and add moisture and then freeze hard or harder.

It is quite possible that the snow was not lying or very deep over the pass to the tent location . That is just because it is more exposed .

If we assume that the last two photos are the last pitching of the tent , there doesn't seem to be much depth to the snow where there back packs and skis stand. The snow looks strong and hard enough to support their weight and it is here they decide to build the tent foundation.

It is perhaps that their was a fresh snowfall up to the point of the incident or some new movement of snow .

There is a great video of footprints being made by people visiting the area and some foot prints are exposed and others covered again with new hard snow.

The weather and snow conditions will always be different and can change rapidly with a short space if time.

[Partorg]

Petr Bartolomey, one of the search team members, said in a 2012 interview that ski tracks from the Dyatlovites between Pereval and Palatka were visible as early as March. In the form of a “rail” raised above the surface and not a continuous line, but in separate sections of about 20 meters.  This can be explained by the fact that in some areas of the slope the snow did not linger, and they walked on a hard, wind-blown slab, leaving no traces; in the depressions in the terrain the snow settled, and there the traces were imprinted. The same picture is seen in the section of their descent to Kedr - in some places there are traces-pillars, but in the neighboring places there are not.

[Osi]

Let's say you're standing on a layer of snow that fell days earlier. You're trying to make a footprint by stepping on this snow. In a compacted and hardened snow cover, you either won't leave any trace, or at best, you might get a footprint 1-2 cm deep. Then, using a cutting tool, cut a cube measuring 30x30x30 cm from that area. Crush that cube by slamming it violently against the asphalt, and then fill the hole where the cube was removed with the crumbled snow. Now you have a chance to get a footprint 7-8 cm deep. As a result, the path the group took from the tent to the forest had both natural snow cover and snow that had rolled down the slope and crumbled. The snow was probably fresh. Otherwise, the footprints wouldn't have been possible. On the day we moved to the tent, it started snowing heavily in warm weather. It snowed all night. Perhaps a cornice accumulation or a freshly fallen layer hit the northeast slope of the tent and flowed downwards around 10 o'clock. Then, depending on the slope, the route evolved from the tent down to the divan. After the avalanche stopped, the children got out of the tent. First, they trampled on the natural snow untouched by the slab movement. As they went further down, they trampled on the drifted snow. I think this is the most likely explanation for the raised footprints.

[sarapuk]

So, the Unknown Power wasn't a bigfoot or an alien.

I don't think the two Yuris were attacked at all. The ones who were attacked were the three who went to the tent and the four who took shelter in the den. Because they had a chance to make it out in the morning!!! The three could have returned to the tent, gathered their supplies, and left in the morning. And since they were sheltered from the cold in the snow, they could have made it out in the morning. The Unknown Power didn't want anyone to leave in the morning!!! The poor two Yuris, already half-naked and sweating profusely, froze to death themselves. And the Mansi found them by the fire and put them in a neat and tidy position.

Yes, we can rule out a bigfoot and aliens. I would also add avalanche and hurricane to the exclusion list. But I dare to suggest a little different view on what happened.

All hikers were 'attacked' with no exception. They were 'attacked' from the same source but in different ways. And that source had no intelligence at all, all 'attacks' were passive, no offense. First, the source of the trouble collapsed part of the tent making the hikers to leave it. When Yuris tried to approach the source in order to clarify what had happened, they got too close and crossed 'red line'. Here Yuris received severe damage to their health. All hikers had to start emergeny descend to the forest. On arrival to the Cedar tree, Yuris' health status had been really bad already. The rest of the group started reanimation attempts. Very soon it became clear that without medicine, ethanol, warm clothes Yuris would die inevitably. Zina volunteered to return back to the tent to fetch all the needed, even knowing that the threat might remain.

Meanwhile, the threat had expanded its zone from the tent's site to the whole slope and kept expanding it in direction to the treeline. On entering the zone, Zina was 'attacked' and very quickly perished. Rustem made attempt to rescue Zina, but he was 'attacked' also at the front edge of the zone. The last rescue attempt was done by Igor, who was 'attacked' at even shorter distance from the treeline.

While Zina, Rustem, and Igor had been trying to advance towards the tent, both Yuris died. Their clothes were taken by the remaining 4 hikers, who decided to relocate to the ravine. As the ravine was at the edge of the forest, the dangerous zone, which kept expanding, came to it. The ravine-4 sensed the danger and started emergency retreat down the creek. But they managed to walk a few meters only. The core of the zone detonated, and as a result of explosion the ravine-4 were smashed against rocks in the creek.

Low temperature and strong wind were not key actors to kill the group. They provided a background that camouflaged the whole event to look natural.

Nothing can be ruled out. Including Big Foot or Yeti or however such a creature can be described. And also Aliens can not be ruled out.

[sarapuk]

If the unknown force attacked the tent, it didn't harm anyone. The unknown force wasn't an ordinary force. It was very strong and fast. Otherwise, it wouldn't have stood a chance against seven men. And if it had attacked someone in the tent, that person would have certainly died. Yes, the unknown force attacked the tent, but it was only a threat. The young people probably resisted for a long time. But the last attack must have frightened them and they abandoned the tent! There was definitely no direct attack on the tent. It was simply an attack aimed at intimidation and threat.

We have to be careful with making such bold statements even if we are allowed to speculate. Keeping as near as possible to the facts is the best way to proceed with this mystery. So yes there appears to have been an overwhelming and unknown force at work. Exactly how that force worked and why is what we should be trying to find out. So it appears that there was a force at work at the Tent Site and the Cedar Tree and the Ravine and on the slope.

[Senior Maldonado]

Nothing can be ruled out. Including Big Foot or Yeti or however such a creature can be described. And also Aliens can not be ruled out.

As you wish... But I will not join this investigators' club of the deadend theories. First, I would like to see solid proof that Bigfoot and Aliens exist.

Neither Bigfoot nor Aliens had a single reason to kill harmless students. If we assume that these creatures do killings just for fun, the North Urals region would be dotted with corpses of Mansi, hunters. etс., since nobody can resist their huge force.

[sarapuk]

Nothing can be ruled out. Including Big Foot or Yeti or however such a creature can be described. And also Aliens can not be ruled out.

As you wish... But I will not join this investigators' club of the deadend theories. First, I would like to see solid proof that Bigfoot and Aliens exist.

Neither Bigfoot nor Aliens had a single reason to kill harmless students. If we assume that these creatures do killings just for fun, the North Urals region would be dotted with corpses of Mansi, hunters. etс., since nobody can resist their huge force.

Well Im not in any such club. Solid proof of things that are probably way beyond our understanding. Just like in Physics which is the word / term used to describe things that can not necessarily be seen or completely understood. The unknown. And therefore its impossible to say what would motivate such beings to do what they did/ do.

[GlennM]

Frozen footprints were found
Frozen footprints of multiple indiciduals were found
Frozen footprints went in the direction of the forest from the tent
Frozen footprints did not indicate assisted walking as in hobbling
Frozen footprints were not accompanied by drag marks, neither foot nor sledge

We may surmise that the tent was always located where it was found.
We may also believe that each person was able to travel independently of each other
We may know that there was insufficient interest in delaying leaving the tent to gather additional supplies, suggesting that the exodus was intended to be temporary.
We may feel confident that the weather conditions that allowed the prints to be made and exposed were strong and directional.

I support the delayed slab slip theory for the collapse and abandonment of the tent driven by katabatic wind. I speculate that they left at night and grossly underestimated the distance to the forest lacking visual clues. It is likely that there were injuries sustained during the descent as well as stepping in running water. All else were consequential events.

[Senior Maldonado]

Frozen footprints were found
Frozen footprints of multiple indiciduals were found
Frozen footprints went in the direction of the forest from the tent
Frozen footprints did not indicate assisted walking as in hobbling
Frozen footprints were not accompanied by drag marks, neither foot nor sledge

We may surmise that the tent was always located where it was found.
We may also believe that each person was able to travel independently of each other
We may know that there was insufficient interest in delaying leaving the tent to gather additional supplies, suggesting that the exodus was intended to be temporary.
We may feel confident that the weather conditions that allowed the prints to be made and exposed were strong and directional.

I support the delayed slab slip theory for the collapse and abandonment of the tent driven by katabatic wind. I speculate that they left at night and grossly underestimated the distance to the forest lacking visual clues. It is likely that there were injuries sustained during the descent as well as stepping in running water. All else were consequential events.

Although I do not support the Slab theory at all, I want to comment that all the above observations and conclusions are right. The hikers set the tent on the slope, where it was found on February 26th. Nobody was wounded in a way that the others had to drag him/her, the whole group made the descent on their feet. The footprints belonged to the hikers, there were no strangers on the spot. Priority to leave the spot was higher than the one to collect things from the tent. And they expected to come back but never managed...

[sarapuk]

Frozen footprints were found
Frozen footprints of multiple indiciduals were found
Frozen footprints went in the direction of the forest from the tent
Frozen footprints did not indicate assisted walking as in hobbling
Frozen footprints were not accompanied by drag marks, neither foot nor sledge

We may surmise that the tent was always located where it was found.
We may also believe that each person was able to travel independently of each other
We may know that there was insufficient interest in delaying leaving the tent to gather additional supplies, suggesting that the exodus was intended to be temporary.
We may feel confident that the weather conditions that allowed the prints to be made and exposed were strong and directional.

I support the delayed slab slip theory for the collapse and abandonment of the tent driven by katabatic wind. I speculate that they left at night and grossly underestimated the distance to the forest lacking visual clues. It is likely that there were injuries sustained during the descent as well as stepping in running water. All else were consequential events.

But how many footprints were there ? You say multiple. And you speculate that they left at night and grossly underestimated the distance to the forest. But you don't mention the fact that they left without sufficient clothing or supplies to survive in those harsh conditions.

[sarapuk]

Frozen footprints were found
Frozen footprints of multiple indiciduals were found
Frozen footprints went in the direction of the forest from the tent
Frozen footprints did not indicate assisted walking as in hobbling
Frozen footprints were not accompanied by drag marks, neither foot nor sledge

We may surmise that the tent was always located where it was found.
We may also believe that each person was able to travel independently of each other
We may know that there was insufficient interest in delaying leaving the tent to gather additional supplies, suggesting that the exodus was intended to be temporary.
We may feel confident that the weather conditions that allowed the prints to be made and exposed were strong and directional.

I support the delayed slab slip theory for the collapse and abandonment of the tent driven by katabatic wind. I speculate that they left at night and grossly underestimated the distance to the forest lacking visual clues. It is likely that there were injuries sustained during the descent as well as stepping in running water. All else were consequential events.

Although I do not support the Slab theory at all, I want to comment that all the above observations and conclusions are right. The hikers set the tent on the slope, where it was found on February 26th. Nobody was wounded in a way that the others had to drag him/her, the whole group made the descent on their feet. The footprints belonged to the hikers, there were no strangers on the spot. Priority to leave the spot was higher than the one to collect things from the tent. And they expected to come back but never managed...

It must have been some serious priority to make them flee the tent not properly dressed or equipped to survive those harsh conditions. If they expected to come back then they would still have been properly dressed. Because its about a mile to the forest and in those conditions not properly dressed or equipped is life threatening.

[Senior Maldonado]

It must have been some serious priority to make them flee the tent not properly dressed or equipped to survive those harsh conditions. If they expected to come back then they would still have been properly dressed. Because its about a mile to the forest and in those conditions not properly dressed or equipped is life threatening.

Yes, critical priority for sure. That's why I am not in favour of snow slab. A slab is not so strong force that can kill the whole group immediately.

Most probably, they did incorrect estimation indeed, but not for distance to the forest. They decided that the threat would manifest itself quicky, and they would not need to spend a lot of time far from the tent. My understanding is that the group first intended to descend to the 3rd stone ridge, wait there a few minutes for the threat to develop and to cease, then return back. But when they reached the ridge, nothing had happened. The hikers started a kind of discussion what should be done next. As it became clear they had to wait unknown period of time, the decision was to proceed to the forest and wait there. If you have a look at Maslennikov's drawing, you will see that at the 3rd ridge their route has a kink -- at that point they turned a little bit to the south and went directly to the Cedar tree.

[GlennM]

I conttend that when the slab slipped, snow covered the tent and additionally an upwind supporting ski pile was broken. The group would have to exit the tent, assess the damage, and determine whether they could effect a repair in stormy conditions. This would be hard to do. They would have a flashlight to see with, but even if they could re-raise the tent, it would only be a poor windbreak against cold, blowing and swirrling snow. A fire could not be lit,nor sustained.  One might suspect that if the snow slid on them once, it could do it again. There was no need to wait and put in ski boots, the skis were unavailable and without skis, the boots are a slipping hazard. Valenki are better.

One might think they all huddled up and weighed their options, but the evidence suggests they realized that getting out of the wind, dodging a presumptive snow slide and making a short trek to the woods for a fire and windbreak was an achievable priority, so they did it. Only later did they come to the realization that even though they were going down hill, it turned out the trees were farther then they thought. Once committed to going to the woods, only a favorable change in conditions would induce them to alter course. That did not happen. Further, the poor conditions persisted once they got to the trees. An open fire by the cedar was a stop gap effort, but thermally inefficient. They needed the shelter of a ravine in order to try another fire, wait for daylight and work their way back. Tragically, several deadly thingsnwent bump in the night. I feel most of them were falls from a tree and an embankment. Then again, I could be wrong.

[Marc]

The first searchers obviously did not come as criminal investigators. It was probably difficult to read anything from the area around the tent later.
When 9 hikers prepared the camping area, only trampled snow remained around the tent. A criminal investigator would not have read anything from it, even if he had been at the scene the next morning.

Yes, the tracks found in the distance belonged to 7-9 people, probably hikers leaving the tent.  But even that is just a guess. Theoretically there could have been footprints of unknown people around the tent and it would have been hard to detect them.

The same situation was probably also at the cedar and the ravine - many footprints back and forth, it would have been hard to get any picture of what really happened that night, based purely on footprints. Therefore, I myself would not put much emphasis on the fact that there are no traces of strangers at the scene.

[GlennM]

It is helpful to appreciate that if the prints were laid down February 1 or 2, they were still identifiable and followable to the cedar on April 6. No other confounding prints, nor sledge trails were identified in April. This from the book 1079.

[sarapuk]

It must have been some serious priority to make them flee the tent not properly dressed or equipped to survive those harsh conditions. If they expected to come back then they would still have been properly dressed. Because its about a mile to the forest and in those conditions not properly dressed or equipped is life threatening.

Yes, critical priority for sure. That's why I am not in favour of snow slab. A slab is not so strong force that can kill the whole group immediately.

Most probably, they did incorrect estimation indeed, but not for distance to the forest. They decided that the threat would manifest itself quicky, and they would not need to spend a lot of time far from the tent. My understanding is that the group first intended to descend to the 3rd stone ridge, wait there a few minutes for the threat to develop and to cease, then return back. But when they reached the ridge, nothing had happened. The hikers started a kind of discussion what should be done next. As it became clear they had to wait unknown period of time, the decision was to proceed to the forest and wait there. If you have a look at Maslennikov's drawing, you will see that at the 3rd ridge their route has a kink -- at that point they turned a little bit to the south and went directly to the Cedar tree.

But they had virtually destroyed their tent in escaping from it. If indeed it was them responsible for the cuts to the tent ! I think we have to assume and maybe correctly assume that it was a life threatening situation and returning to the tent was not on their agenda.

[sarapuk]

I conttend that when the slab slipped, snow covered the tent and additionally an upwind supporting ski pile was broken. The group would have to exit the tent, assess the damage, and determine whether they could effect a repair in stormy conditions. This would be hard to do. They would have a flashlight to see with, but even if they could re-raise the tent, it would only be a poor windbreak against cold, blowing and swirrling snow. A fire could not be lit,nor sustained.  One might suspect that if the snow slid on them once, it could do it again. There was no need to wait and put in ski boots, the skis were unavailable and without skis, the boots are a slipping hazard. Valenki are better.

One might think they all huddled up and weighed their options, but the evidence suggests they realized that getting out of the wind, dodging a presumptive snow slide and making a short trek to the woods for a fire and windbreak was an achievable priority, so they did it. Only later did they come to the realization that even though they were going down hill, it turned out the trees were farther then they thought. Once committed to going to the woods, only a favorable change in conditions would induce them to alter course. That did not happen. Further, the poor conditions persisted once they got to the trees. An open fire by the cedar was a stop gap effort, but thermally inefficient. They needed the shelter of a ravine in order to try another fire, wait for daylight and work their way back. Tragically, several deadly thingsnwent bump in the night. I feel most of them were falls from a tree and an embankment. Then again, I could be wrong.

Assessing the damage wouldn't take long. The tent was virtually shredded. Beyond repair in those conditions. And once again lets not forget that they left the tent not properly dressed or equipped to survive those conditions.

[sarapuk]

The first searchers obviously did not come as criminal investigators. It was probably difficult to read anything from the area around the tent later.
When 9 hikers prepared the camping area, only trampled snow remained around the tent. A criminal investigator would not have read anything from it, even if he had been at the scene the next morning.

Yes, the tracks found in the distance belonged to 7-9 people, probably hikers leaving the tent.  But even that is just a guess. Theoretically there could have been footprints of unknown people around the tent and it would have been hard to detect them.

The same situation was probably also at the cedar and the ravine - many footprints back and forth, it would have been hard to get any picture of what really happened that night, based purely on footprints. Therefore, I myself would not put much emphasis on the fact that there are no traces of strangers at the scene.

You are correct that it would have been very difficult to make sense of the scene at the tent site weeks after the event. We don't know how much snow fell in that time or the strength of the wind. And of course the initial search was for the group presumably being alive somewhere.

[GlennM]

Breathing,bleeding,broken bones and burns.Of these triage categories, only breathing has relevance for the hikers leaving the tent. They cut their way free and descended partially clothed. This suggests that there was little time for planning after they left the tent. Imagine choking cough and stinging eyes and an urgent desire to get somewhere sheltered and recover. You could alternately imagine a crush of suffocating snow on the tent weighing as much as a car. Again, cutting out of the tent to breathe is a priority. Your ski shovels are buried. More snow on the way. No you can not go back in and get stuff, just like sand, snow backfills the exit cuts and flattens the tent. You can not erect it, the support pole is broken. Time to head to the woods and get warm. Who knew it would be that far to walk?

Bleeding, broken bones and burns all subsequently happened, but breathing got them out of the tent.

[sarapuk]

Breathing,bleeding,broken bones and burns.Of these triage categories, only breathing has relevance for the hikers leaving the tent. They cut their way free and descended partially clothed. This suggests that there was little time for planning after they left the tent. Imagine choking cough and stinging eyes and an urgent desire to get somewhere sheltered and recover. You could alternately imagine a crush of suffocating snow on the tent weighing as much as a car. Again, cutting out of the tent to breathe is a priority. Your ski shovels are buried. More snow on the way. No you can not go back in and get stuff, just like sand, snow backfills the exit cuts and flattens the tent. You can not erect it, the support pole is broken. Time to head to the woods and get warm. Who knew it would be that far to walk?

Bleeding, broken bones and burns all subsequently happened, but breathing got them out of the tent.

Well it seems that most investigators dont believe that snow caused the group to flee the tent. Many investigations have taken place as to the likelihood of snow causing damage to the tent and the group. And those investigations show that its highly unlikely that snow was responsible.

[GlennM]

I hate being the only guy with the right answer.
For what it is worth, I subscribe to a slab slide and katabatic wind as being responsible for their leaving their tent. The benefit of this point of view is it gives those with alternate points of view a reference and a position they can argue against. Some with a great deal of fervor. No body knows anything. I am just one blind person holding one part of the elephant and describing the elephant to five other people in the same condition as I am.