Watch this

[Ziljoe]

Ziljoe, from my experience, I can say this: calculating distance traveled based on time (for example, it's assumed that a person at a normal pace walks about 5 km per hour) is only accurate for sports fields. Terrain complicated by natural obstacles and additional loads (like a backpack) reduce speed. As an experiment, moving in an unfamiliar forest is about 3 km/h for a trained person without additional loads, while for an untrained person, it's half that.

Estimating distance traveled is subjective; it's no wonder that hikers later tried using homemade odometers.

Regarding the interval between watch stops, the "Sportivnye" and "Pobeda" watches, according to a 1957 catalog of watches and watch accessories, had a power reserve of at least 34 hours. It's quite possible that the guys wound their watches simultaneously or almost simultaneously, for example, in the morning between getting up and setting out on the trail. Considering the watches are from different manufacturers, plus the tolerances within the GOST standard, a difference of 24 minutes and 36 seconds is insignificant. Also, don't forget that on a mechanical watch, 8:00 a.m. could be 8:00 a.m., just as it could be 8:00 p.m., meaning the difference could be as much as 12 hours, 24 minutes, and 36 seconds, rather than 24 minutes and 36 seconds.

As for orientation, the remnants were used as landmarks. If visibility is zero, then climbing is pointless—you could miss the exit point by several hundred meters, even though you felt like you were heading in the right direction.

If you're interested, I can share some books on tourism from those years. They're in Russian, though.

Javier, in the USSR some watches had a dial with a luminous coating.

Thanks for the detailed reply — it’s really helpful to hear your perspective. I agree that estimating distance by time is never exact in real terrain, especially with snow, wind, and backpacks. I’m not suggesting they were calculating kilometres, only that time can give a rough sense of “how far back up the slope the tent should be” if visibility is poor. In darkness or a whiteout, time and bearing are often the only tools available.

About the watches: I completely understand that the two times could be a coincidence. Mechanical watches can stop close together, especially in cold conditions, and I’m not arguing against that possibility at all. I’m only suggesting an alternative idea — that Tibo may have stopped them deliberately to record the descent time. Both watches belonged to him, and the times happen to match the approximate duration of the descent and arrival at the cedar. It might be coincidence, or it might be intentional; I’m not claiming one over the other, just exploring possibilities.

Your point about power reserve and winding tolerances is fair, and the AM/PM ambiguity makes the picture less clear. I’m only looking at the fact that both watches stopped at times that align with the group’s movement pattern, which makes it an interesting detail to consider alongside the standard explanations.

On orientation: I agree that in zero visibility you can drift badly. The group also had no detailed map of the immediate slope — only a general sense of the ridge and valley — so if the tent became invisible or drifted over, they wouldn’t have many reference points. That’s why I was thinking about time and bearing as a rough way of knowing “we should be close now,” rather than anything precise. The torch on the slope and the straight line of footprints suggest they were trying to keep a consistent bearing, which fits with the idea that they intended to return to the tent.

One thing worth adding is that Soviet sports‑tourism groups were required to keep records of time spent travelling as part of documenting distance and route sections. It wasn’t about exact kilometres — it was about logging how long each leg of the journey took. That habit of tracking time was part of their training. They were also taught how to move in whiteout conditions, where visibility can drop to nothing and landmarks disappear. In those situations, using time and bearing becomes a sensible and taught approach, because it’s often the only way to estimate where a fixed point (like a tent) should be when you can’t see it.

I’m not trying to overturn anything — just exploring how the small details might fit together. I appreciate your input; it helps keep the idea grounded and realistic.

[Axelrod]

I’m not trying to overturn anything — just exploring how the small details might fit together. I appreciate your input; it helps keep the idea grounded and realistic.

It seems to me that the moment the clock hands indicate suggests that the hands were positioned downwards, under the influence of gravity.
They were able to descend, but the spring was unable to lift them back up.
Yes, 18:30 for Stalin and 17:30 for Dyatlov suggest that the hands were at the bottom of the dial.
If someone's arms was lying on their side, then it was 8:40. So, it's a moment, but it doesn't tell us anything.

[Hunter]

Javier, there are many possible explanations for the two watches on his wrist. Here are the most likely:
1. Thibault was supposed to be on duty, and he was given a watch with a luminous dial.
2. The watch was given to him by someone who had to do heavy work to avoid breaking it.
3. Thibault took the watch from the deceased to give it to his family.

Ziljoe, bearings are taken by compass and azimuth, not by watch. Thibault didn't own two watches. At best, he owned one.
They weren't taught how to navigate in zero visibility. On the contrary, according to reports, the groups stopped until the storm passed or even retraced their steps.

Axelrod, gravity had no effect on the watch hands there.

[Ziljoe]

Hunter

A bearing is a chosen direction. You can do this by any means. Using a watch along with counting steps is an extremely basic method for estimating the distance you travel. You have no other means. He was found with two watches? And that is what we are talking about. How do you know they weren't taught to navigate in zero visibility. No one knows why the stopped. The point is to why he may have been wearing two watches.

[GlennM]

A bearing on 1079 could be ascertained by having an objective. That would be trees. Trees are downhill from the tent. Bearing problem solved. You might argue that the Yuri's climbed the cedar in order to get a visual after the darkness and weather cleared. That is another thread, I think.

[Hunter]

GlennM, landmarks work in good visibility. In poor visibility, you either stay put or follow a compass bearing. Judging by reports from those years, tourists weren't taught how to navigate in near-zero visibility.
If the weather had cleared, the group could have returned using the buttes as a guide.

[Ziljoe]

A bearing on 1079 could be ascertained by having an objective. That would be trees. Trees are downhill from the tent. Bearing problem solved. You might argue that the Yuri's climbed the cedar in order to get a visual after the darkness and weather cleared. That is another thread, I think.

Absolutely. Any visual land mark or stoping and looking back at your tracks for example. You just need two points of reference.

If the visibility was restricted when they left the tent and they had to find some sort of warmth for survival then down the slope is the only way. They may not be sure where they erected their tent on 1079 relative to the map if the visibility was poor at the time of erecting the tent.

I would have thought that if a storm was coming it would easier and quicker to move to the forest than dig and erect a tent. None of this maters to the having two watches but their were practical reasons for this. It is not theft of a watch or keeping it for returning to the family.

[Ziljoe]

GlennM, landmarks work in good visibility. In poor visibility, you either stay put or follow a compass bearing. Judging by reports from those years, tourists weren't taught how to navigate in near-zero visibility.
If the weather had cleared, the group could have returned using the buttes as a guide.

A person in front of you is a land mark , a rock , a tree . Its like lining sights on a gun. You have a tree 200m away and some close , you aim along that bearing.

The tourists might not know where they are exactly plus they had to leave the tent . The tent could have been covered with snow drifts and the foot prints. How on earth would you find the tent again?.

Whats buttes?

[GlennM]

So, we have it that twin watches can assist in measuring distance in terms of traverse time. We have it that in poor conditions, the grade of the slope is a method for finding the tree line. We know that the descending group did not travel in circles, which could happen if the lead person had an instinctive tendency to favor right or left Of course when the wind starts blowing on a cheek instead of the back of the next, a course correction is necessary. My guess is that once they left the tent, there was no wasted time in getting behind some trees. Some speculate that the Yuri's died following a heroism involved in scaling the cedar for finding their direction to the tent plus stomping on branches for firewood. I am not so sure about any of that.

With the insights of a veteran forum member, I am inclined to think that the 8 o'clock hour was in the evening, not morning. I like this as an explanation for why the boots were off, but not the ski pants. You would having a tough time taking pants off with boots on, yes? Easier too if the winter coat is off first. It makes bending over easier, especially if in cramped quarters. If it were 8 o'clock in the morning, I'd think they would all put on their coats after getting out of bed, then pants, then boots. I wasn't there though.

[sarapuk]

After World War II, captured German equipment was highly prized in the USSR. Take Zeiss binoculars, for example. Yes, the USSR produced high-quality goods, but they were mostly exported or distributed among the elite. The average citizen had virtually no access to them.
Imported items, so-called "brand name" items, were highly prized among Soviet citizens, even though these "brand names" were often counterfeited in underground factories. For example, jeans, which were not available for sale in the USSR (except in Beryozka stores, where they could be purchased with so-called "checks"), cost almost as much on the black market as the average monthly salary of most Soviet citizens. Moreover, these jeans were often not made in the West (the era of Chinese "clones" had not yet arrived), but in underground factories. For example, in a sewing workshop on the third shift. In your example, these binoculars were clearly manufactured for export, so their quality was higher than those that were sold on the civilian market within the USSR.

The military of the USSR and certain others would have had the best binoculars available, as well as other equipment. This may extend to the universities. It's a long time ago, over 60 years, so people young then would be old now, obviously, but they may remember a lot of what went on in those times regarding equipment.

[sarapuk]

Brignole On the left forearm there are two watches

Without a doubt, it is something very strange. I have never seen anyone wearing two watches.

For what reason could I take two and not one as would be normal? 

Is it really strange for someone to wear 2 watches!?

Yes, normally it is strange to wear two watches (maybe in case one breaks to have another or, as you have already mentioned, it could belong to one of his deceased companions). But I think that detail has little relevance in a case where there are many concerns, don't you think?

I would, in that case, use the word rare instead of strange. I was thinking, is this relevant, and after a while, I thought yes, why not? Any little detail may provide an avenue for further investigation.

 

[sarapuk]

I’m not trying to overturn anything — just exploring how the small details might fit together. I appreciate your input; it helps keep the idea grounded and realistic.

It seems to me that the moment the clock hands indicate suggests that the hands were positioned downwards, under the influence of gravity.
They were able to descend, but the spring was unable to lift them back up.
Yes, 18:30 for Stalin and 17:30 for Dyatlov suggest that the hands were at the bottom of the dial.
If someone's arms was lying on their side, then it was 8:40. So, it's a moment, but it doesn't tell us anything.

Under the influence of gravity !? That needs some scientific elaboration.

[sarapuk]

Hunter

A bearing is a chosen direction. You can do this by any means. Using a watch along with counting steps is an extremely basic method for estimating the distance you travel. You have no other means. He was found with two watches? And that is what we are talking about. How do you know they weren't taught to navigate in zero visibility. No one knows why the stopped. The point is to why he may have been wearing two watches.

Well, by many means. You don't need to be taught to navigate in zero visibility; a simple compass can do that. For the Dyatlov Group, just know which direction to head in.
Hence, a very simple compass. Maybe having 2 watches on was a mere personal thing, nothing untoward or strange or for any specific purpose.

[sarapuk]

A bearing on 1079 could be ascertained by having an objective. That would be trees. Trees are downhill from the tent. Bearing problem solved. You might argue that the Yuri's climbed the cedar in order to get a visual after the darkness and weather cleared. That is another thread, I think.

But they would know where they were at any particular time, so why would it be necessary to have a bearing with reference to the trees in the forest?

[sarapuk]

GlennM, landmarks work in good visibility. In poor visibility, you either stay put or follow a compass bearing. Judging by reports from those years, tourists weren't taught how to navigate in near-zero visibility.
If the weather had cleared, the group could have returned using the buttes as a guide.

Yes, but it doesn't matter if it's zero visibility or perfect visibility. The Dyatlov Group would know where they were at any particular time by virtue of using a compass and a map. If you are out at sea and you have no landmarks, you have a map [ chart ] and a compass. And therefore you can navigate.

[sarapuk]

GlennM, landmarks work in good visibility. In poor visibility, you either stay put or follow a compass bearing. Judging by reports from those years, tourists weren't taught how to navigate in near-zero visibility.
If the weather had cleared, the group could have returned using the buttes as a guide.

A person in front of you is a land mark , a rock , a tree . Its like lining sights on a gun. You have a tree 200m away and some close , you aim along that bearing.

The tourists might not know where they are exactly plus they had to leave the tent . The tent could have been covered with snow drifts and the foot prints. How on earth would you find the tent again?.

Whats buttes?

As I said elsewhere in this. It doesn't matter if you have zero visibility or perfect visibility. You have a map and a compass, and therefore, the Dyatlov Group would know where they were at any particular time.

[Ziljoe]

GlennM, landmarks work in good visibility. In poor visibility, you either stay put or follow a compass bearing. Judging by reports from those years, tourists weren't taught how to navigate in near-zero visibility.
If the weather had cleared, the group could have returned using the buttes as a guide.

A person in front of you is a land mark , a rock , a tree . Its like lining sights on a gun. You have a tree 200m away and some close , you aim along that bearing.

The tourists might not know where they are exactly plus they had to leave the tent . The tent could have been covered with snow drifts and the foot prints. How on earth would you find the tent again?.

Whats buttes?

As I said elsewhere in this. It doesn't matter if you have zero visibility or perfect visibility. You have a map and a compass, and therefore, the Dyatlov Group would know where they were at any particular time.

Sarapuk

Thanks for the reply , i wonder if you could read all the posts in a thread first then reply in just a single post?. It makes it easier to read and follow.

First of all you seem to be getting confused about what their maps were and how good they were and secondly what getting lost actually means.

It seems they got lost locally in the forest and trails and when coming to the pass. They knew they were in the correct general area but not sure which direction was best. This seems to be referenced in the amusing photo of Zolo sitting with his hand in cheek while Igor is looking at a map.

It really depends on the detail of the map and the features and obstacles . If they were basically hand drawn and only highlighted hill peaks, valleys and rivers then caution would need to be taken in poor visibility. For example , when they stopped to erect the tent on 1079 , and if it was a white out , they may know where they are within 1-200 meters . Thats not being lost but it is a problem if you need accuracy and if you hear noises in the night , you may fear things as doubt enters the thoughts. 1079 is quite steep in areas. They may not know where they are in relation to its peak.

When they left the tent , and ignoring whatever reason that was , it may have been in the dark ,although dark if the sky is good then visibility can be quite good , they did not have maps when they left the tent but they could take a bearing from their compass and they would know which way the forest was.

Now , its not about not knowing where you are ,its about recognising they had to find buried treasure, the treasure being the tent and its contents. Leaving the tent for 1.5 km and returning to it the next day is no big deal, but only in ideal conditions . That is , if the tent wasn't covered in snow , it was clear weather on the return, it wasn't white out .

To time the distance you walk away from an exact location gives you something to work with when you need to find it again , especially when you have nothing else at your disposal. Its something i would do.

The OP was asking about the two watches and if there was any significance to the times of their stoppage. The reality remains that they may have been timing their activity when moving through the day . This would give them their speed travelled over a whole day so they know they are traveling at x/kph.
Sharing these responsibilities among the group would be sensible and part of delegating tasks to others. So that's one reason and another maybe to hand it to the next night duty person when its their shift .

That's as exciting as it gets. The two reasons above have been done in other hikes. It is i that suggest that the watches may have been used to time the decent in order that they have a time stamp to go back up the slope and narrow down their search area if the tent had been covered by snow. It would be essential to be able to find it quicker.

[Osi]

For the past 10 years, I've developed a habit of camping in various geographical regions, especially during the winter months. Since I mostly spend my days fishing, exploring culture and nature, my camping gear is quite basic. I don't have a sleeping bag, so I wrap myself in blankets. Besides a small LED flashlight, I have no other lighting. I only know it's time to go inside when the last logs of a small fire start to die down. I haven't received any training on how to stay warm and insulated in a tent. I've learned everything through experience. For example, I've noticed that I get colder on nights when I wrap myself in a thick fur coat after putting on several layers of pants and sweaters. I've also experienced that I can sleep uninterrupted when I wear lighter, more comfortable clothes and snuggle under a blanket. Of course, I'm talking about conditions a few degrees below or above 0 degrees. I attribute most of these to being naked, as mentioned above, to body heat transfer and a warm sleep. However, I attribute the fact that Tibo and Semyon were dressed, and that Tibo had two watches on his wrist, to them being on night watch. One of the watches probably had a feature that provided an advantage during night watch in the tent. Apparently, six people were lying side by side, consuming the distributed food. Semyon and Tibo were sitting near the entrance of the tent, illuminating the inside with a lantern. Rustem, sitting right next to them, was busy taking off his shoes to join the sleeping group.

[Axelrod]

I assume two watches are needed to keep track of the time if one stops.
I've never carried two watches, but I often carried two cell phones. This is so that if one phone runs out of battery, I can call from the other.
Before this, I'd found myself in a situation several times where my dual-SIM phone had little charge for a call, or no battery at all.
Therefore, I decided it was better to use two phones so I wouldn't have to worry too much about their charge levels.

The same situation could have happened with a watch. But we'll never know the exact cause in this case.
There are several explanations here, and none of them are surprising. What's surprising are the additional explanations you offer.

[GlennM]

As a whole, we are quite an intelligent bunch. What we look for are not the multiple " what if's" but rather the " this and nothing else". The only undisputed certainty is they died. 

I am pleased that the two watch explanation works well with an evening exit from the tent. The evening exit works well with the boots and jackets off observation. That works well with cold induced superficial and major trauma injuries. Those injuries support the location where the remains were found. The locations support the idea that the weather changed over time. The watches remind us that when our time is up, its up.

[SURI]

I'm pleased that the two watch explanation works well with Yuri's rolled-up left sleeve. If he took off his watch himself, he would have his sleeve buttoned up. Evening exit works well with Evening Otorten. And Evening Otorten works well with the overall scene.

[sarapuk]

I assume two watches are needed to keep track of the time if one stops.
I've never carried two watches, but I often carried two cell phones. This is so that if one phone runs out of battery, I can call from the other.
Before this, I'd found myself in a situation several times where my dual-SIM phone had little charge for a call, or no battery at all.
Therefore, I decided it was better to use two phones so I wouldn't have to worry too much about their charge levels.

The same situation could have happened with a watch. But we'll never know the exact cause in this case.
There are several explanations here, and none of them are surprising. What's surprising are the additional explanations you offer.

Well, we probably won't know the exact cause unless more evidence comes to light. So there is bound to be plenty of speculation.

[sarapuk]

As a whole, we are quite an intelligent bunch. What we look for are not the multiple " what if's" but rather the " this and nothing else". The only undisputed certainty is they died. 

I am pleased that the two watch explanation works well with an evening exit from the tent. The evening exit works well with the boots and jackets off observation. That works well with cold induced superficial and major trauma injuries. Those injuries support the location where the remains were found. The locations support the idea that the weather changed over time. The watches remind us that when our time is up, its up.

The 2 watch speculation may or may not be relevant. Without more evidence, it's another part of the overall mystery.

[GlennM]

The point is that the two watches are evidence. Evidence of what? Some forum members get off the fence and put forward an idea. Other forum members stay on the fence and peck at the necks of those who had an idea. I said it before, only ten know what happened back then.

For me, if two watches agrees with state of undress and time of day, that is moving the needle toward truth. Nobody is going to produce the smoking gun and we all smack our foreheads and say Wow!