Regarding sticks and poles

[GlennM]

I don't know anything, but I am guessing each hiker had a pair of ski poles plus a spare pair for the team. That is 20 poles. Let's say they needed all 20 to properly pitch their tent. Then, they left the tent, arguably in a hurry They went down a snowy, icy, rocky slope for around a mile  of what(?) a 25 degree slope and losing 400 or more vertical feet of elevation( ?) How many flights of apartment steps are we talking about? Exact corrections appreciated.

Now, to get down the slippery slope, they could link arms side by side all nine walking abreast, or line up and do follow the leader each grabbing shoulders and shirttails of another. We can naturally except the rugged individualist(s) who hugged themself all the way down. Off they went, or so say the frozen steps. Somebody lost their flashlight on the way down too, curse the luck!

Eventually down in the woods,  someone prouduced a knife, matches too!. From that came firewood , a branch mat and a clothes burning fire. At some point, with hands and faces warmed in the glow of the flames, a plan for immediate survival was hatched. Was this before or after dead friends were stripped? I think before. Id like to believe there was group decision making. What next? There is room for original thinking, but there is also room for recalling the basics and past practice. Sheltering in a depression seems original, digging a snow cave is old hat for Zolo. But did the planning just dry up, then and there?  Did they not expect that getting back home was going to take more effort?

There is no way I can imagine Igor, Rustem and Zina in the wooded area and committing to reversing their course back to the tent...without their walking stick! Think about it. Igor was clutching branches, proof he died after reaching the treeline (and not on his way down from the tent, as some suppose) 

Who is going to walk uphill in knee deep snow,ice and rock without the benefit of a stout knife cut, or even a hand broken walking stick?  Somebody who reads this is going to opine, "they couldn't hold on" ( there were bitten knuckles after all, evudence it was really, really cold). I say, they had pockets for their hands. They could make rags for gloves. They could make cloth strip straps for cedar, pine or birch walking sticks tied tight by hands and teeth. Yet, not a single victim was associated with a walking stick! It boggles my mind!. Put yourself in IRZ's situation. You look uphill seeing an inclined slope of bare white ground. Maybe you wipe snow off your eyelashes from time to time. The watches give you a sense of distance, the slope, a sense of direction,  even if the tent itself is less than a black spot somewhere above your head.. You start back.  It is an insult to their intelligence to think someone said, " Hey, this would  be easier with a stick " , then fall to the ground and perish.

Maybe they were waiting for a plane.  Maybe Igor died with a handful of branches to make a smoking signal fire. I think not. Just burn a tree!  Rustem and Zina must have not supported the plan. They moved off, without a walking stick between them.

[Ziljoe]

Interesting. A couple of points , i don't think igor was clutching anything , its written somewhere but seems to be a later speculation . Too, i would think after a couple of hours their hands would have become useless. ? Just a thought.

[SURI]

Igor was holding nothing in his hand, only his left elbow was touching the birch. His bent knees indicate that he was placed there.

[Javier]

Igor was holding nothing in his hand, only his left elbow was touching the birch. His bent knees indicate that he was placed there.

It seems that there are too many contradictions in this whole matter. Every time I read a response I learn something different. I think this will be a TV series without the final episode.

[Javier]

Interesting. A couple of points , i don't think igor was clutching anything , its written somewhere but seems to be a later speculation . Too, i would think after a couple of hours their hands would have become useless. ? Just a thought.

Well, I can't understand it. In the case that it is so... why are there so many lies about this little important fact? I have also read and heard on many occasions that Igor was holding a tree branch, and maybe to defend himself from something or someone. I think the investigation must have been very complicated, but at the same time a botched job. It is said that the prosecutor was forced to close the case prematurely.

[Javier]

GlennM
Don't you think that 9 hikers carrying 20 walking sticks is too much extra load?

[Ziljoe]

Interesting. A couple of points , i don't think igor was clutching anything , its written somewhere but seems to be a later speculation . Too, i would think after a couple of hours their hands would have become useless. ? Just a thought.

Well, I can't understand it. In the case that it is so... why are there so many lies about this little important fact? I have also read and heard on many occasions that Igor was holding a tree branch, and maybe to defend himself from something or someone. I think the investigation must have been very complicated, but at the same time a botched job. It is said that the prosecutor was forced to close the case prematurely.

This is the thing. You have to read the case files, from start to finish.

They are on the menu on the main dyatlov site. That is all there there is. Everything else is someone else's speculation.  The lies, if you want to call them that are people just making money from the mystery. No one was forced to close the case prematurely, it was within the standards of any investigation. They couldn't pin point the reason for leaving the tent , that's all. Some force of nature, it was unknown which force it was. You can see the photo of igor when found in the snow , he wasn't holding anything.

[Ziljoe]

GlennM
Don't you think that 9 hikers carrying 20 walking sticks is too much extra load?

Ski poles . 9 people mean 18 ski poles, 20 means two extra made of bamboo.

[GlennM]

From DyatlovPass.com
"Avalanche probes of 2.5-3 meters long (8-10 feet) were delivered to the pass. The probes had to be specially manufactured in Serov. Earlier they had to use ski poles or standard 70-centimeter (2.3 feet) sapper probes with wooden handles"

If rescuers need 10 foot poles to probe for bodies, I do not suppose they would use all that length to get to ground. But, if they did, that snow was very, very deep!  It seems to me that longer probes are appropriate for searching avalance fields. We know that regular ski poles have a disc on them to increase surface area and not penetrate the ground so deeply. They would be a poor choice for probing under the snow. Sapper poles, I suppose must have no such disc.If rescuers needed 10 foot poles, what kept them, the rescuers, from sinking up to their hocks in snow? Skis? Snowshoes? Hardened snow?  It seems to me that if a special order for avalanche probes was called for and on the other hand nobody is claiming there was an avalanche, then why the necessity for the special probes? Did they expect all the hikers were going to tunnel themselves in somewhere on the long downhill mile to the woods, or perhaps there was the "A" word.

I can see the benefit of the DP9 using their regular poles to aid their descent. I can not fathom why someone didn't  actually do this! I mean they knifed the tent but were afraid to pick up a support ski pole? Crazy!

Time passes. In the forest IRZ decide to go back to the tent. If they backtracked on their descent footprints, they would know with certainty how much deep snow they were going to plow. If they took an other route, its anybody's guess just how hard the going up is going to get. This is all the more reason to fashion an alpine staff for each climber. There is no evidence it was done.  One explanation could be, they didn't do it because they were actually going to the forest from their tent and, not returning. But, there is that pesky issue about how  rescuers described 9 sets of prints descending from the tent in one direction, but no sets of IRZ's prints going downhill in the other direction.

[Hunter]

According to the recollections of searchers and modern finds, the ski poles were disassembled—the disk with the leather straps was removed, leaving a single pole with a sharp tip. These disassembled ski poles were used to poke the slope.

[GlennM]

According to the recollections of searchers and modern finds, the ski poles were disassembled—the disk with the leather straps was removed, leaving a single pole with a sharp tip. These disassembled ski poles were used to poke the slope.

The same adjustment would be useful for staking guy lines to the tent. If all  DP9 hikers ski poles were so disassembled, they would be far less effective in preventing a hiker fall while getting off the slope. On the other hand, the same bare pole(s) plunged deep in snow might have been very useful for IRZ going uphill. Alas, we are still stuck with the realization that a simple and effective tool was available to the group before departing the tent, and they ignored it.

[Senior Maldonado]

The case files ... are on the menu on the main dyatlov site. That is all there there is. Everything else is someone else's speculation.  The lies, if you want to call them that are people just making money from the mystery. No one was forced to close the case prematurely, it was within the standards of any investigation. They couldn't pin point the reason for leaving the tent , that's all. Some force of nature, it was unknown which force it was.

This statement needs to be commented definitely.

It's a common mistake to think that Lev Ivanov closed the Dyatlov group criminal case because he exhausted all ways to find an exact cause of the incident, came to a deadend, and ended up with vague "overwhelming force, which the hikers were not able to overcome". Ivanov clearly pointed to the justification to close the case:
"Given that between the actions of the above-mentioned people who have committed shortcomings in the formulation of sports work and the death of hikers there is no causal connection and, not seeing in this case the corpus delicti, guided by paragraph 5 of Article 4 of the RSFSR Code of Criminal Procedure".

If we have a look at the paragraph 5 of Article 4 of the RSFSR Code of Criminal Procedure of that time, we can see:
"Criminal proceedings may not be initiated, but if initiated, may not be continued and must be terminated at any stage of the proceedings: if the actions of the one accused do not constitute a crime."
This means that the criminal case was closed because Head of UPI Siunov and other Sverdlovsk's tourist organization officials could not be linked with DPI, and thus they did not  commit a crime. As for the "overwhelming force", it has nothing to do with the criminal case closure.

It's also capital to understand that despite the case files look like an offical document. they are the main lie here. The case files do not truly reflect how the DPI investigation was run. And they have no indication that all was "within the standards of any investigation". The standards were broken literally in all aspects. Let's imagine that Mr.Ziljoe buys a house and becomes its owner. But in 3 months this house is sold by Mr.Smith. Would you agree that this is "within the standards"? Meanwhile, the case files demonstrate exactly this approach - the case was opened by prosecutor Tempalov, but it was closed by prosecutor Ivanov. What were Ivanov's credentials to close the case? Do you see any document, which confirms that the criminal case investigation was transferred to Ivanov?

Of course, as any quality fake, the case files include a lot of genuine documents. But it does not change the result. We are doing with a staged folder, which cannot be used to conclude on the cause of hikers' death.

[Ziljoe]

The case files ... are on the menu on the main dyatlov site. That is all there there is. Everything else is someone else's speculation.  The lies, if you want to call them that are people just making money from the mystery. No one was forced to close the case prematurely, it was within the standards of any investigation. They couldn't pin point the reason for leaving the tent , that's all. Some force of nature, it was unknown which force it was.

This statement needs to be commented definitely.

It's a common mistake to think that Lev Ivanov closed the Dyatlov group criminal case because he exhausted all ways to find an exact cause of the incident, came to a deadend, and ended up with vague "overwhelming force, which the hikers were not able to overcome". Ivanov clearly pointed to the justification to close the case:
"Given that between the actions of the above-mentioned people who have committed shortcomings in the formulation of sports work and the death of hikers there is no causal connection and, not seeing in this case the corpus delicti, guided by paragraph 5 of Article 4 of the RSFSR Code of Criminal Procedure".

If we have a look at the paragraph 5 of Article 4 of the RSFSR Code of Criminal Procedure of that time, we can see:
"Criminal proceedings may not be initiated, but if initiated, may not be continued and must be terminated at any stage of the proceedings: if the actions of the one accused do not constitute a crime."
This means that the criminal case was closed because Head of UPI Siunov and other Sverdlovsk's tourist organization officials could not be linked with DPI, and thus they did not  commit a crime. As for the "overwhelming force", it has nothing to do with the criminal case closure.

It's also capital to understand that despite the case files look like an offical document. they are the main lie here. The case files do not truly reflect how the DPI investigation was run. And they have no indication that all was "within the standards of any investigation". The standards were broken literally in all aspects. Let's imagine that Mr.Ziljoe buys a house and becomes its owner. But in 3 months this house is sold by Mr.Smith. Would you agree that this is "within the standards"? Meanwhile, the case files demonstrate exactly this approach - the case was opened by prosecutor Tempalov, but it was closed by prosecutor Ivanov. What were Ivanov's credentials to close the case? Do you see any document, which confirms that the criminal case investigation was transferred to Ivanov?

Of course, as any quality fake, the case files include a lot of genuine documents. But it does not change the result. We are doing with a staged folder, which cannot be used to conclude on the cause of hikers' death.

Thanks for the detailed breakdown — it’s clear you’ve put real thought into the legal angle. 
But I think we may be talking past each other a bit.

Article 4, paragraph 5 is absolutely what Ivanov cites, but that clause is a generic procedural closure used whenever a criminal case finds no crime, no perpetrator, and no negligence. It doesn’t imply that UPI officials were suspects, only that the case had been opened under a criminal framework and therefore had to be closed under the appropriate criminal‑procedure article. That’s just how Soviet legal mechanics worked i think.

As for Tempalov vs. Ivanov — escalation from a local prosecutor to a regional one wasn’t unusual. Tempalov opened it because he was the nearest authority; Ivanov closed it because the case had been transferred upward, which was standard for any incident involving multiple deaths. It looks odd only if you assume Western-style continuity of a single investigator, but the Soviet system doesn't seem to operate that way as far as i understand.

On the case files themselves: I’m cautious about calling them a ‘staged folder’. They’re messy, inconsistent, and come from 1959 — but that’s what Soviet investigative paperwork usually looks like. If the files were fabricated, we’d expect cleaner narrative lines, not the bureaucratic chaos we actually see. And without an alternative archive or contradictory documents, it’s hard to treat the entire corpus as unreliable while still using parts of it as evidence.

I do agree with you on one thing: the files don’t tell the whole story of how the investigation was run. But that’s true of almost every Soviet case from that era and even today in the west.Gaps in documentation aren’t the same as intentional staging — sometimes they’re just gaps.

So I’m not dismissing your points — they’re interesting. I just think the simplest explanation still holds: the case was closed because no crime could be established, not because someone was being shielded or because the files were constructed after the fact.”

If you have evidence, it would be great to see.

[Senior Maldonado]

@Ziljoe,

Yes, I understand that temptation is very high to picture Soviet detectives as a bunch of uncoordinated fools, who had no idea how to drive a criminal case investigation and how to register their actions properly. But that was not the case. All detectives knew the Code of Criminal Procedure of RSFSR very well, and they had a strong monitoring system in Prosecutor's Office. Moreover, the case files related to DPI were under supervision of Moscow Central Prosecutor's Office, which completely excludes option to relax and deviate from the compulsory procedures.

I do not have any evidence, and I cannot have one. I rely on analysis I perform leveraging on multiple pieces of information from different sources ranging from the case files to UPI students' recollections.

The case files is an outstanding collection of Code of Criminal Procedure of RSFSR violations. Just take autopsies of all 9 hikers. The Procedure implies that a detective issues an order to perform an autopsy, where he lists questions he expects to be answered by a medical expert. We have zero autopsy orders in the case files. At the same time, autopsy reports mention that appropriate orders were issued. Expert Vozrozhdenniy was invited as a representative of the state Medical Expert laboratory, he was not a private medic to express his own opinion. This implies that autopsy reports should be issued by the state laboratory, signed by the laboratory director and stamped by the laboratory's seal. Do you see all that in the case files? And what about Tempalov? He is tripple hatted in the investigation  , acting as a detective, a prosecutor, and a witness at the same time. Do you know a country, where law allows that?

[Ziljoe]

@Ziljoe,

Yes, I understand that temptation is very high to picture Soviet detectives as a bunch of uncoordinated fools, who had no idea how to drive a criminal case investigation and how to register their actions properly. But that was not the case. All detectives knew the Code of Criminal Procedure of RSFSR very well, and they had a strong monitoring system in Prosecutor's Office. Moreover, the case files related to DPI were under supervision of Moscow Central Prosecutor's Office, which completely excludes option to relax and deviate from the compulsory procedures.

I do not have any evidence, and I cannot have one. I rely on analysis I perform leveraging on multiple pieces of information from different sources ranging from the case files to UPI students' recollections.

The case files is an outstanding collection of Code of Criminal Procedure of RSFSR violations. Just take autopsies of all 9 hikers. The Procedure implies that a detective issues an order to perform an autopsy, where he lists questions he expects to be answered by a medical expert. We have zero autopsy orders in the case files. At the same time, autopsy reports mention that appropriate orders were issued. Expert Vozrozhdenniy was invited as a representative of the state Medical Expert laboratory, he was not a private medic to express his own opinion. This implies that autopsy reports should be issued by the state laboratory, signed by the laboratory director and stamped by the laboratory's seal. Do you see all that in the case files? And what about Tempalov? He is tripple hatted in the investigation  , acting as a detective, a prosecutor, and a witness at the same time. Do you know a country, where law allows that?

I hear what you’re saying about procedural irregularities, but I think we’re looking at this from two different angles. 

Soviet system wasn’t a model of perfect paperwork, especially in remote regions. Missing orders, missing stamps, and investigators wearing multiple hats were common. 
So for me, the absence of certain documents doesn’t automatically imply staging or manipulation — it often just reflects how cases were handled at the time. 
I’m more interested in the physical evidence and the consistency of the findings than expecting a 1959 rural investigation to meet ideal procedural standards.

And just to be clear, I don’t think Soviet detectives were fools or incapable. That’s not my view at all. You’re projecting that onto me. I’m simply saying that procedural imperfections were normal in that era, not evidence of a cover‑up.

[Senior Maldonado]

procedural imperfections were normal in that era

Those are not normal in any era. Code of Criminal Procedure is a Law. If the Procedure is not followed, it's law violation. Let's imagine we have a real criminal case. The accused criminal will use any hook, any mistake during the case investigation stage to avoid punishment. If his attorney managed to find "imperfection", it will give him power to declare that the law was violated, and the case cannot be considered valid. The massive "imperfections" we see in the Dyatlov group case files are too many even for ordinary daily case. But here we have case, which was under control of Prosecutor's Office big bosses in Moscow. One small mistake in the case files, and immediate job termination might follow. The existing amount of "imperfections" suggests that such folder's appearance was agreed with and blessed by the top commanders in Federal Prosecutor's Office.

[Ziljoe]

procedural imperfections were normal in that era

Those are not normal in any era. Code of Criminal Procedure is a Law. If the Procedure is not followed, it's law violation. Let's imagine we have a real criminal case. The accused criminal will use any hook, any mistake during the case investigation stage to avoid punishment. If his attorney managed to find "imperfection", it will give him power to declare that the law was violated, and the case cannot be considered valid. The massive "imperfections" we see in the Dyatlov group case files are too many even for ordinary daily case. But here we have case, which was under control of Prosecutor's Office big bosses in Moscow. One small mistake in the case files, and immediate job termination might follow. The existing amount of "imperfections" suggests that such folder's appearance was agreed with and blessed by the top commanders in Federal Prosecutor's Office.

I'm not talking about what the law said , I’m talking about how things actually worked in 1959, especially in remote regions. 
The Soviet system had clear procedures on paper, but in practice there were plenty of cases with missing forms, missing stamps, and investigators taking on multiple roles. 
That wasn’t a sign of conspiracy , it was just the reality of the era. 
So for me, irregular paperwork isn’t enough to conclude intentional manipulation. I’m still more interested in the physical evidence than in expecting perfect documentation from a rural investigation in 1959.

There deaths by tourists in February on a mountain in ukraine in 1959. A group of 3 and a group of 9 a day or so apart. No documents seem to remain. Was it a rocket?

you are describing modern law in a criminal case and not the criminal case of an mountaineering accident?.

[Senior Maldonado]

I’m still more interested in the physical evidence than in expecting perfect documentation from a rural investigation in 1959.

The physical evidence is on your table already. How to interpret it is up to you, of course.

A small piece of pullover's belt from Kolevatov's body (7.4 x 7.4 cm) provided 1840 decays of radioactive material without counting background. Taking that the background mentioned by Levashov was 100 decays, we have (1840 + 100)/100 = 19.4 times excees over background. And that was not the most contaminated piece of hikers' clothes. Ivanov initially included information about radiation into the case Closing statement, but Klinov did not put his signature, stroke it out, and asked to rework. Klinov also ordered to split the sheets with Levashov's radiation report and keep them separately in top secret part of the archive.

Sorry, I have forgotten that Soviet rules were loose and not necessary to obey. Soviet nuclear factories had their access restrictions on paper only. In practice, any citizen might come and take any isotope he wanted. 

[Ziljoe]

I’m still more interested in the physical evidence than in expecting perfect documentation from a rural investigation in 1959.

The physical evidence is on your table already. How to interpret it is up to you, of course.

A small piece of pullover's belt from Kolevatov's body (7.4 x 7.4 cm) provided 1840 decays of radioactive material without counting background. Taking that the background mentioned by Levashov was 100 decays, we have (1840 + 100)/100 = 19.4 times excees over background. And that was not the most contaminated piece of hikers' clothes. Ivanov initially included information about radiation into the case Closing statement, but Klinov did not put his signature, stroke it out, and asked to rework. Klinov also ordered to split the sheets with Levashov's radiation report and keep them separately in top secret part of the archive.

Sorry, I have forgotten that Soviet rules were loose and not necessary to obey. Soviet nuclear factories had their access restrictions on paper only. In practice, any citizen might come and take any isotope he wanted. 

I’m not dismissing the radiation readings , they’re part of the record. 
But the behaviour of the contamination is important too.

The fact that the activity dropped by half after washing actually points toward surface‑level industrial contamination rather than a high‑dose source i think. If the isotopes were deeply embedded or came from a major radiation event at the pass, they wouldn’t wash off so easily. And the ravine group were in running water and melting snow for weeks, which would also reduce surface contamination significantly. The readings are not particularly high, just more than would be expected on clothing given the environment.

There’s also the possibility of post‑contamination from the materials used during recovery. The searchers covered the ravine four with old tarps and canvas sheets, and Soviet rescue gear at the time often came from industrial or military surplus. Those materials could easily have carried trace contamination from previous storage or use. That would explain why only certain clothing items showed activity while the tent, snow, and environment did not.

What we’re left with is non‑uniform contamination on a few items, not on the bodies, the tent, or the scene. That’s consistent with preexisting industrial sources the hikers or the recovery teams had access to, and it matches the lab’s own conclusion that the levels weren’t medically significant.

It’s interesting data, but it doesn’t explain the injuries, the den construction, the snow depth, or the sequence of events on the ground. That’s why I’m still focusing mainly on the physical evidence at the scene.

I believe its title as a criminal case may leed us all a bit astray . It was a search and rescue then switches after they are found dead to a criminal case as theres no other terminology to put it under I don't think. That's why its a bit of a mish mash.

[Senior Maldonado]

@Ziljoe,

As I said, interpretation of evidence makes a difference. If you feel that the outwear of the Ravine 4 was contaminated after their extraction from under the snow, it's a theory, and I fully agree that such view might exist. My interpretation is that at the Pass the hikers faced source of radiation, which was not a part of natural environment -- it came and was removed in a short while.

@GlennM,

Sorry that I have deviated from the topic of the thread. As I know, the hikers did not have a spare pair of ski poles. The right number should have been 18 poles for the group. The snow resistant rings were removed by the Search team at the end of February, that converted the ski poles to probes.

[Ziljoe]

@Ziljoe,

As I said, interpretation of evidence makes a difference. If you feel that the outwear of the Ravine 4 was contaminated after their extraction from under the snow, it's a theory, and I fully agree that such view might exist. My interpretation is that at the Pass the hikers faced source of radiation, which was not a part of natural environment -- it came and was removed in a short while.

not saying post‑contamination is the only explanation — just that the behaviour of the contamination itself points toward surface transfer rather than exposure at the pass. The readings dropped significantly after washing, the ravine group were in running water for weeks, and the contamination was patchy rather than uniform. That pattern doesn’t match a single radiation source affecting the whole group at the same moment.

It also doesn’t match the environment: the tent, the snow, and the scene showed no elevated readings. Only certain items of clothing did. That’s why I mentioned the possibility of transfer from recovery materials like old tarps or canvas — it’s simply another surface‑level mechanism that fits the pattern.

Either way, the lab concluded the levels weren’t medically significant, and the contamination doesn’t explain the injuries, the den construction, or the sequence of events on the ground.

Everything fits with the case files and its conclusion/conclusions. There is no evidence of anything else present unfortunately.

[Hunter]

Judging by the photographs, if ski poles were used as quickdraws, they were not taken apart but stuck into the snow with the rings facing up.

[Axelrod]

There's absolutely no need to take a spare ski pole (one or two) on a hike.
Even if your pole breaks, you can use a tree trunk instead.

[GlennM]

A Galeazzi fracture involves a break in the radius along with dislocation of the ulna at the wrist. It is a high-energy injury that typically requires surgery. This is a severe wrist fracture. I mention it because when people fall, they may put their hand in front or behind them to break a fall. Curious how none of the hikers had wrist problems. Curious that the problems did not manifest even when ski poles and walking sticks were not used. Even more curious that Zolo and Lyuda who had the most severe skeletal damage did not have defensive wounds and wrist fractures.

[sarapuk]

I don't know anything, but I am guessing each hiker had a pair of ski poles plus a spare pair for the team. That is 20 poles. Let's say they needed all 20 to properly pitch their tent. Then, they left the tent, arguably in a hurry They went down a snowy, icy, rocky slope for around a mile  of what(?) a 25 degree slope and losing 400 or more vertical feet of elevation( ?) How many flights of apartment steps are we talking about? Exact corrections appreciated.

Now, to get down the slippery slope, they could link arms side by side all nine walking abreast, or line up and do follow the leader each grabbing shoulders and shirttails of another. We can naturally except the rugged individualist(s) who hugged themself all the way down. Off they went, or so say the frozen steps. Somebody lost their flashlight on the way down too, curse the luck!

Eventually down in the woods,  someone prouduced a knife, matches too!. From that came firewood , a branch mat and a clothes burning fire. At some point, with hands and faces warmed in the glow of the flames, a plan for immediate survival was hatched. Was this before or after dead friends were stripped? I think before. Id like to believe there was group decision making. What next? There is room for original thinking, but there is also room for recalling the basics and past practice. Sheltering in a depression seems original, digging a snow cave is old hat for Zolo. But did the planning just dry up, then and there?  Did they not expect that getting back home was going to take more effort?

There is no way I can imagine Igor, Rustem and Zina in the wooded area and committing to reversing their course back to the tent...without their walking stick! Think about it. Igor was clutching branches, proof he died after reaching the treeline (and not on his way down from the tent, as some suppose) 

Who is going to walk uphill in knee deep snow,ice and rock without the benefit of a stout knife cut, or even a hand broken walking stick?  Somebody who reads this is going to opine, "they couldn't hold on" ( there were bitten knuckles after all, evudence it was really, really cold). I say, they had pockets for their hands. They could make rags for gloves. They could make cloth strip straps for cedar, pine or birch walking sticks tied tight by hands and teeth. Yet, not a single victim was associated with a walking stick! It boggles my mind!. Put yourself in IRZ's situation. You look uphill seeing an inclined slope of bare white ground. Maybe you wipe snow off your eyelashes from time to time. The watches give you a sense of distance, the slope, a sense of direction,  even if the tent itself is less than a black spot somewhere above your head.. You start back.  It is an insult to their intelligence to think someone said, " Hey, this would  be easier with a stick " , then fall to the ground and perish.

Maybe they were waiting for a plane.  Maybe Igor died with a handful of branches to make a smoking signal fire. I think not. Just burn a tree!  Rustem and Zina must have not supported the plan. They moved off, without a walking stick between them.

You say they left their tent arguably in a hurry. I would say they left it scared stiff. They fled in a hurry, that's for sure. They didn't stop for any extra clothing or equipment.

[sarapuk]

Igor was holding nothing in his hand, only his left elbow was touching the birch. His bent knees indicate that he was placed there.

It seems that there are too many contradictions in this whole matter. Every time I read a response I learn something different. I think this will be a TV series without the final episode.

I would say there are too many speculations as opposed to contradictions.

[sarapuk]

Interesting. A couple of points , i don't think igor was clutching anything , its written somewhere but seems to be a later speculation . Too, i would think after a couple of hours their hands would have become useless. ? Just a thought.

Well, I can't understand it. In the case that it is so... why are there so many lies about this little important fact? I have also read and heard on many occasions that Igor was holding a tree branch, and maybe to defend himself from something or someone. I think the investigation must have been very complicated, but at the same time a botched job. It is said that the prosecutor was forced to close the case prematurely.

We can't know if lies are at play. We can only go by the facts we have and the evidence for what it's worth. We are told that the case was closed rather quickly, and the area was sealed off for a long time.

[sarapuk]

Interesting. A couple of points , i don't think igor was clutching anything , its written somewhere but seems to be a later speculation . Too, i would think after a couple of hours their hands would have become useless. ? Just a thought.

Well, I can't understand it. In the case that it is so... why are there so many lies about this little important fact? I have also read and heard on many occasions that Igor was holding a tree branch, and maybe to defend himself from something or someone. I think the investigation must have been very complicated, but at the same time a botched job. It is said that the prosecutor was forced to close the case prematurely.

This is the thing. You have to read the case files, from start to finish.

They are on the menu on the main dyatlov site. That is all there there is. Everything else is someone else's speculation.  The lies, if you want to call them that are people just making money from the mystery. No one was forced to close the case prematurely, it was within the standards of any investigation. They couldn't pin point the reason for leaving the tent , that's all. Some force of nature, it was unknown which force it was. You can see the photo of igor when found in the snow , he wasn't holding anything.

Nicely put. It was certainly a force of some kind. Whether it was a force of nature, we don't know.

[sarapuk]

The case files ... are on the menu on the main dyatlov site. That is all there there is. Everything else is someone else's speculation.  The lies, if you want to call them that are people just making money from the mystery. No one was forced to close the case prematurely, it was within the standards of any investigation. They couldn't pin point the reason for leaving the tent , that's all. Some force of nature, it was unknown which force it was.

This statement needs to be commented definitely.

It's a common mistake to think that Lev Ivanov closed the Dyatlov group criminal case because he exhausted all ways to find an exact cause of the incident, came to a deadend, and ended up with vague "overwhelming force, which the hikers were not able to overcome". Ivanov clearly pointed to the justification to close the case:
"Given that between the actions of the above-mentioned people who have committed shortcomings in the formulation of sports work and the death of hikers there is no causal connection and, not seeing in this case the corpus delicti, guided by paragraph 5 of Article 4 of the RSFSR Code of Criminal Procedure".

If we have a look at the paragraph 5 of Article 4 of the RSFSR Code of Criminal Procedure of that time, we can see:
"Criminal proceedings may not be initiated, but if initiated, may not be continued and must be terminated at any stage of the proceedings: if the actions of the one accused do not constitute a crime."
This means that the criminal case was closed because Head of UPI Siunov and other Sverdlovsk's tourist organization officials could not be linked with DPI, and thus they did not  commit a crime. As for the "overwhelming force", it has nothing to do with the criminal case closure.

It's also capital to understand that despite the case files look like an offical document. they are the main lie here. The case files do not truly reflect how the DPI investigation was run. And they have no indication that all was "within the standards of any investigation". The standards were broken literally in all aspects. Let's imagine that Mr.Ziljoe buys a house and becomes its owner. But in 3 months this house is sold by Mr.Smith. Would you agree that this is "within the standards"? Meanwhile, the case files demonstrate exactly this approach - the case was opened by prosecutor Tempalov, but it was closed by prosecutor Ivanov. What were Ivanov's credentials to close the case? Do you see any document, which confirms that the criminal case investigation was transferred to Ivanov?

Of course, as any quality fake, the case files include a lot of genuine documents. But it does not change the result. We are doing with a staged folder, which cannot be used to conclude on the cause of hikers' death.

We have to go with the facts and the evidence that we have. There is obviously a lot of evidence that we don't have. Some of it may be locked away in an official government archive. We don't know. A lot of the mystery seems to rest upon Ivanov and the closing of the case. Once again, we don't really know for sure, only what we have been told.

[sarapuk]

@Ziljoe,

Yes, I understand that temptation is very high to picture Soviet detectives as a bunch of uncoordinated fools, who had no idea how to drive a criminal case investigation and how to register their actions properly. But that was not the case. All detectives knew the Code of Criminal Procedure of RSFSR very well, and they had a strong monitoring system in Prosecutor's Office. Moreover, the case files related to DPI were under supervision of Moscow Central Prosecutor's Office, which completely excludes option to relax and deviate from the compulsory procedures.

I do not have any evidence, and I cannot have one. I rely on analysis I perform leveraging on multiple pieces of information from different sources ranging from the case files to UPI students' recollections.

The case files is an outstanding collection of Code of Criminal Procedure of RSFSR violations. Just take autopsies of all 9 hikers. The Procedure implies that a detective issues an order to perform an autopsy, where he lists questions he expects to be answered by a medical expert. We have zero autopsy orders in the case files. At the same time, autopsy reports mention that appropriate orders were issued. Expert Vozrozhdenniy was invited as a representative of the state Medical Expert laboratory, he was not a private medic to express his own opinion. This implies that autopsy reports should be issued by the state laboratory, signed by the laboratory director and stamped by the laboratory's seal. Do you see all that in the case files? And what about Tempalov? He is tripple hatted in the investigation  , acting as a detective, a prosecutor, and a witness at the same time. Do you know a country, where law allows that?

The extraordinary nature of this incident must have been a real challenge for the authorities at the time. They were faced with a possible murder investigation, but at the same time, it could have been an accident, a force of nature or some other force. Ivanov was in a difficult position in this respect. And his superiors, who would not have been at the site of the incident, had to rely on him and others who were at the scene. 9 people died in mysterious circumstances.