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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: New Suspect In Case  (Read 754 times)

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July 28, 2026, 10:37:05 AM
Reply #30
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Ziljoe


The important thing is that Ivanov knew it. It is clear that you still haven’t understood him. He spoke about the killing, the motive, and the savagery of the group. What more do you want? Even if 100 pieces of evidence were presented to you, you wouldn't accept a single one

Where does ivanov say savagery? He talks about wildness but in a very different context. He says it wasn't murder and the injuries don't reflect that.
 

July 28, 2026, 10:51:17 AM
Reply #31
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Hunter


You haven't provided any. Ivanov knew nothing. His article about fireballs, IMHO, was an attempt to hype up the UFO phenomenon.
 
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July 28, 2026, 11:36:25 AM
Reply #32
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Ziljoe


Why Ivanov’s 1991 Letter Reads the Way It Does

When you look at Ivanov’s 1991 letter in Russian, the pattern becomes very clear. He wasn’t giving a forensic account — he was shaping a story for a specific audience: the Central Television program “Ecology of the Unknown.”

This matters because that show was not a scientific or investigative program. It was a late‑Soviet paranormal / mystery show, part of the glasnost wave of UFOs, anomalies, and “hidden Soviet secrets.” It aired on the main Soviet channel, but its credibility was entertainment‑level, not forensic. Think of it as the USSR’s version of Unsolved Mysteries or Sightings — professionally produced, widely watched, but absolutely not rigorous.

Once you understand the show’s format, Ivanov’s letter makes perfect sense.

1. He begins by establishing his authority
He lists his entire career, ranks, titles, and honours. 
This is him saying:

> “I’m credible. You can trust me.”

It’s a classic Soviet bureaucratic introduction.

2. He then tells them the official story was ordinary
He literally says:

> “It was an ordinary case… not even about murder, but an accident.”

This is him signalling:

- “Officially, nothing dramatic happened.” 
- “Don’t expect a scandal or a cover‑up.”

3. Then he pivots and gives them the story they want
Immediately after saying it was ordinary, he delivers:

- fireballs 
- unknown energy 
- directed radiation 
- selective force 
- burnt trees 
- mysterious phenomena 
- “only I remain who knows the true circumstances”

This is exactly the kind of content a paranormal TV show wants — dramatic, ambiguous, atmospheric, and impossible to disprove.

It’s not forensic analysis. 
It’s storytelling.

4. He avoids politically sensitive explanations
Notice what he never mentions:

- R‑7 rocket launches 
- missile flares 
- re‑entry burns 
- booster plumes 
- military testing 
- snow‑compression trauma 
- ravine roof collapse

These are the explanations that actually fit the evidence — but they were:

- politically sensitive, 
- scientifically mundane, 
- narratively boring, 
- and useless for a paranormal TV program.

Instead he gives them UFO‑friendly ambiguity, which is safe, popular, and profitable.

5. The show itself rewarded mystery, not accuracy
Ecology of the Unknown was designed to:

- entertain 
- intrigue 
- dramatise 
- sell mystery 
- explore anomalies 
- present “hidden truths” 
- feature retired officials with dramatic stories

It was not designed to:

- verify facts 
- challenge narratives 
- present forensic detail 
- solve the case

So Ivanov gives them exactly what the format rewards.

6. The subtext of the letter is basically:
> “Officially it was ordinary. 
> Unofficially, here’s a story you can use. 
> Do with it what you like.”

And because he was the investigator, the show could present it as:

> “A former Soviet prosecutor reveals the hidden truth.”

Which is gold for a paranormal program.

---

Summary
Ivanov’s letter isn’t a forensic document. 
It’s a performance tailored for a paranormal TV show.

He:

- asserts authority, 
- downplays the official story, 
- then delivers a dramatic, ambiguous narrative 
- that fits the show’s format perfectly.

This is why his account sounds mysterious — and why it shouldn’t be treated as a literal forensic explanation of the Dyatlov case
 
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July 28, 2026, 12:13:24 PM
Reply #33
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SURI


The important thing is that Ivanov knew it. It is clear that you still haven’t understood him. He spoke about the killing, the motive, and the savagery of the group. What more do you want? Even if 100 pieces of evidence were presented to you, you wouldn't accept a single one

Where does ivanov say savagery? He talks about wildness but in a very different context. He says it wasn't murder and the injuries don't reflect that.

For me, what Ivanov says is important, not you. He unequivocally spoke about the motive and the killing. I have already posted it here several times. And don't worry, I understand him very well.
 

July 28, 2026, 12:17:34 PM
Reply #34
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SURI


You haven't provided any. Ivanov knew nothing. His article about fireballs, IMHO, was an attempt to hype up the UFO phenomenon.

You are mistaken. Ivanov knew everything; you underestimate him greatly. Regarding the fireballs, he wrote that we need to understand their nature. Have you understood it yet? Have you identified the names behind those spheres yet?
 

July 28, 2026, 12:29:28 PM
Reply #35
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Hunter


Вот только признание Иванова в том, что ГД погубили "огненные шары" удивительным образом совпадает со временем, когда в СССР и пост-СССР стали увлекаться всякими НЛО. Как говорят в России, Иванов "поймал тренд".

ENGLISH TRANSLATION:
But Ivanov's confession that the State DU destroyed "fireballs" surprisingly coincides with the time when the USSR and post-USSR began to be fond of all kinds of UFOs. As they say in Russia, Ivanov "caught the trend".
« Last Edit: July 28, 2026, 03:19:25 PM by amashilu »
 

July 28, 2026, 02:15:51 PM
Reply #36
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Ziljoe


Suri,I don't know if this is the bit where you think savagery comes from but it's about oversight . Oversight meaning how the students checked in during their hike , they should have been observed or had ways to communicate their wellbeing throughout the hike . This was a failure by the CPSU, and those in charge. The reference to semi-wild and then moving into wildness at the final stage means they were way out of reasonable safety if things went wrong. It's those that Ivanov blames in his letter.

"But there were those for whom silence was beneficial. First of all, the director /or whatever his name was/ Gordo was silent. He was one of the culprits of the detachment making a lot of mistakes. The head of the city sports committee /I don't remember his last name/ was silent, because he was also guilty of the detachment being "semi-wild", moving into the stage of "wildness" at the final stage."
 

July 28, 2026, 03:32:43 PM
Reply #37
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SURI


Yes, that is it. The beginning of everything. The background of the entire incident. But your explanation of a "wild group" due to a lack of bureaucratic oversight does not align with Ivanov's other statements about a motive and killing. The group transitioned into a stage of savagery for a completely different reason.

Ivanov literally stated:
"Someone needed to frighten or punish people, or show their strength, and they did this, killing three people."

He also noted:
"There was a directed force that selectively acted on individuals, excluding others."

Do you honestly believe a mere failure of a sports committee to check in on the hikers leads to a "directed force" that selectively kills people? Ivanov laid out the pieces, but you are still trying to explain a calculated, punitive act as a failure of administrative paperwork.
 

July 28, 2026, 04:22:06 PM
Reply #38
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Ziljoe


Ivanov is introducing himself, he tells the real version first. The semi wild refers to being in the wild , in the trees and forests , in the countryside away from human contact. He doesn't mean the went wild , they were in the wilderness, they were too far away from help and civilisation. That's the crime along with awful paper work. No one knew there route properly when it came tome to search for them. That's another crime.

The news paper article is for sensation , it's highly contradictory and gets a number of facts wrong. It gets released in the news paper as that's all the fashion at the time. It's not factual.

The force is just artistic licence along with fire balls in the sky . It's just a story to sell . We know the lights in the sky were rockets far away , the eyewitness accounts describe them exactly. There were no burns on the trees and the description of a high speed car crash and a force throwing people out of the tent are just misused phrases for effect.

The autopsy doesn't mean the injuries are like being hit from a car or blastwave , they mean what you would see in a car crash involving being trapped inside and being crushed, like wise the air blast or explosion would cause such injuries from a crumbled building . It's the squeezing and compression.
 

July 28, 2026, 09:04:22 PM
Reply #39
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SURI


Ivanov reached this conclusion under the weight of extensive evidence. The perpetrators themselves handed it to him on a silver platter. You are simply unable to understand this, and you constantly try to distort his words just because the reality of a punitive act doesn't fit your theory.
 

July 28, 2026, 09:59:00 PM
Reply #40
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Hunter


It seems some people don't understand the specifics of these terms. "Wild" tourists mean that they went on a hike on their own, not with a hiking club or organization. Regarding communication, you're already accustomed to cell phones and satellite phones, but back then, communications were very limited – only a select few (party elite, factory directors, shop foremen, etc.) had home phones. The primary means of communication were letters and telegrams. Not everyone had a radio, and it was registered. Taking one along on a hike was, to put it mildly, not a smart idea. Those who suggested it apparently never considered how everything would have to be organized in such a case.

Suri, instead of just talking, provide proper evidence.
 

July 28, 2026, 10:50:14 PM
Reply #41
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SURI


"Wild" tourists mean that they went on a hike on their own, not with a hiking club or organization.

The hikers moved into the stage of "wildness" only at the final stage — as a result of a punitive act.

Kirill Bardin
"The opinion is firm — Dyatlov's group did not die because of omissions in the preparation of the expedition."

Taking one along on a hike was, to put it mildly, not a smart idea.

Or it was a clever move.
 

July 28, 2026, 11:28:47 PM
Reply #42
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Hunter


Suri, you're using the wrong terms, or the translator isn't translating accurately. "Wild" tourists are those who initially went on a hike without registration or any support from a hiking club or tour section. Regarding the radio, have you seen radios from those days? What were the batteries like? How do you imagine the communications system was organized?
 

July 28, 2026, 11:56:02 PM
Reply #43
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SURI


I think the "final stage" of wildness is completely clear, and it was clear to Ivanov as well. That is why he spoke about the killing and the motive. You are the only ones who do not understand it.
 

July 29, 2026, 02:23:36 AM
Reply #44
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Ziljoe


What “semi‑wild” and “wildness” actually meant in Soviet tourism terminology

There’s been a lot of confusion in this thread about Ivanov’s use of the terms “semi‑wild” and “wildness.” 
These words have a very specific meaning in Soviet sports‑tourism administration, and it has nothing to do with savagery, violence, motive, or punitive acts.

Below are documented Soviet uses of the same terminology, in the same bureaucratic context Ivanov was referring to.

---

1. Central Council for Tourism (ЦСТ СССР)
Term: дикий туризм (“wild tourism”) 
Meaning: Unregistered, unsupervised travel.

Used in: 
Методические указания по организации туристских походов (1950s–1970s)

> “туристы, совершающие походы без регистрации в маршрутно‑квалификационной комиссии” 
> “tourists conducting treks without registration in the route‑qualification commission.”

This is exactly Ivanov’s usage.

---

2. RSFSR Sports Committee Reports (Спорткомитет РСФСР)
Term: дикие группы (“wild groups”) 
Meaning: Groups hiking without proper paperwork or oversight.

Used in: 
Annual Reports, 1957–1961

> “группы, вышедшие на маршрут без контроля и допуска” 
> “groups that entered a route without control or authorization.”

Again — administrative, not behavioural.

---

3. Federation of Sport Tourism (ФСТ СССР)
Term: полудикие походы (“semi‑wild treks”) 
Meaning: Partially registered, missing check‑ins or oversight.

Used in: 
Instructions for Category III Treks (1950s–1960s)

> “походы, не полностью соответствующие требованиям маршрутных комиссий” 
> “treks not fully compliant with route‑commission requirements.”

This is word‑for‑word what Ivanov meant.

---

4. Komsomol Youth Tourism Manuals
Term: дикий турист (“wild tourist”) 
Meaning: A tourist traveling outside official club structures.

Used in: 
Комсомольский турист СССР (1963)

> “турист, совершающий путешествие вне туристского клуба или секции” 
> “a tourist traveling outside a tourism club or section.”

This matches Ivanov’s context exactly.

---

5. GCOLIFK Physical Culture University Textbooks
Term: дикость маршрута (“wildness of a route”) 
Meaning: A route lacking proper documentation or oversight.

Used in: 
GCOLIFK Sport Tourism Materials (1950s–1970s)

> “маршрут, не обеспеченный контрольными пунктами и средствами связи” 
> “a route lacking control points and communication means.”

This describes the Dyatlov situation precisely.

---

6. University Tourist Club Archives (UPI, MEI, MSU)
Term: дикий выход (“wild outing”) 
Meaning: A hike conducted without notifying the club or route commission.

Used in: 
UPI, MEI, MSU tourist club archives (1950s–1960s)

> “выход без отметки в маршрутной книжке” 
> “an outing without a mark in the route book.”

Again — administrative, not behavioural.

---

7. Ministry of Education Circulars (Минпрос РСФСР)
Term: дикие походы студентов (“wild student treks”) 
Meaning: Student treks conducted without proper authorization.

Used in: 
Минпрос РСФСР, циркуляр № 14‑Б (1958)

> “походы студентов без контроля со стороны учебных заведений” 
> “student treks without oversight from educational institutions.”

This is the same bureaucratic meaning Ivanov used.
 
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July 29, 2026, 03:01:40 AM
Reply #45
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SURI


A crime simply occurred, and you will either accept it or you won't. It is completely pointless for you to present anything further. A wild group, a motive, and selective killing — that is a lethal combination of words. That says it all. There is nothing left to resolve.

Even AI won't help you save this; it doesn't have Ivanov's investigative skills.😉
 

July 29, 2026, 06:16:23 AM
Reply #46
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GlennM


Circumstantial, physical and eyewitness evidence are used in a court of Law. For circumstantial, could it be any other way? Yes. Is there physical evidence? No. Is there eyewitness testimony? No.  In the court of public opinion, it's about who yells the loudest, tells the best lies and is the most obnoxious (read politics).

For this latest spin on the DPI there are two hard No answers and one answer open to interpretation. That is thin material to start writing the next definitive expose for the DPI. Still, this is why vanity publishers exist. 
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 
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July 29, 2026, 07:06:48 AM
Reply #47
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SURI


And how do you know that physical evidence doesn't exist? Do you know for a fact that we were shown everything? As far as I know, the manipulated case file is full of shortcomings
 

July 29, 2026, 07:19:48 AM
Reply #48
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Ziljoe


A crime simply occurred, and you will either accept it or you won't. It is completely pointless for you to present anything further. A wild group, a motive, and selective killing — that is a lethal combination of words. That says it all. There is nothing left to resolve.

Even AI won't help you save this; it doesn't have Ivanov's investigative skills.😉

Suri, I’m not trying to “save” anything — I’m trying to save you from embarrassing yourself by doubling down on a misunderstanding of Soviet terminology.

AI isn’t here to rescue me. It’s a research tool that saves hours of digging through archives and typing up citations. That’s why I posted actual Soviet sources showing how “wild” and “semi‑wild” were used in the language of the time.

You’ve ignored all of them.

There is no evidence of a crime. 
Ivanov says that himself — repeatedly. 
He says there was no murder. 
He says criminal intent was excluded. 
He says it was an accident.

You’re basing your entire theory on a single line from a 1990 tabloid article, written for a newspaper that specialised in UFO stories and sensationalism. You’ve lifted one dramatic phrase out of a piece designed to titillate readers over breakfast, and you’re treating it like a forensic conclusion.

You’ve ignored:

- the 1959 case files 
- the autopsy protocols 
- the 1991 letter 
- the investigators’ interviews 
- the Soviet tourism terminology 
- the actual meaning of “wildness” in the period 
- every documented Soviet use of the term 

You’ve also ignored the context of Ivanov’s writing, the genre of the publication, and the fact that the people who actually investigated the case — Okishev, Vozrozhdennyy, Korotaev — all rejected murder outright.

If you want to argue a crime occurred, you need evidence. 
Right now, you’re arguing from a word that, in Soviet usage, literally meant “not properly registered.”





 
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July 29, 2026, 07:34:52 AM
Reply #49
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Ziljoe


And how do you know that physical evidence doesn't exist? Do you know for a fact that we were shown everything? As far as I know, the manipulated case file is full of shortcomings

Suri , we have been given a puzzle and a mystery but how do we look at it?

There's the possibility that everything is the truth , they were driven out of the tent and an accident happened at the ravine and they died of the physical injuries and cold. That's the basic version.

If anything is missing ,it's more to do with the era and the circumstances of the accident. The meaning of that is it was initially a search and rescue , not a crime scene. Ivanov and many of the other officials had delt with death before , it happened in all kinds of ways , ivanov mentions some examples. These are not people who are going to get emotionally connected to random students freezing to death . Deaths happened all the time in tourism and in normal day to day life.

I'm not sure what's missing that you think needs to be there. If anything, un forensic evidence and statements have been added , not taken away.

Everyone involved says it was not a murder and there's no evidence for it. Not outsiders , not between themselves as there's no physical evidence for it.
 

July 29, 2026, 09:38:48 AM
Reply #50
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SURI


For myself, I have the puzzle solved, but unfortunately, you haven't understood Ivanov at all; you have absolutely no idea what he is communicating. A planned act naturally leaves behind a mountain of evidence. You have some of it right in front of you, but when someone is blinded by their own bias, they simply cannot see it.

It doesn't even strike you as strange that some people froze to death right next to a fire, while others did not. You are not even disturbed by the missing results of the histological and chemical-toxicological examinations, or the unsigned and unstamped case files. You treat everything as completely standard.

With this approach, you will not find the truth.
 

July 29, 2026, 10:30:29 AM
Reply #51
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Hunter


Suri, have you ever gone hiking and warmed yourself by a fire in temperatures as low as 10 degrees Celsius, let alone below zero degrees Celsius? And were you half-naked?
 

July 29, 2026, 11:15:26 AM
Reply #52
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Hunter


And how do you know that physical evidence doesn't exist? Do you know for a fact that we were shown everything? As far as I know, the manipulated case file is full of shortcomings

Suri , we have been given a puzzle and a mystery but how do we look at it?

There's the possibility that everything is the truth , they were driven out of the tent and an accident happened at the ravine and they died of the physical injuries and cold. That's the basic version.

If anything is missing ,it's more to do with the era and the circumstances of the accident. The meaning of that is it was initially a search and rescue , not a crime scene. Ivanov and many of the other officials had delt with death before , it happened in all kinds of ways , ivanov mentions some examples. These are not people who are going to get emotionally connected to random students freezing to death . Deaths happened all the time in tourism and in normal day to day life.

I'm not sure what's missing that you think needs to be there. If anything, un forensic evidence and statements have been added , not taken away.

Everyone involved says it was not a murder and there's no evidence for it. Not outsiders , not between themselves as there's no physical evidence for it.

Some professions make people cynical. For example, doctors, investigators, law enforcement officers, and the military. So what's considered "he's an insensitive blockhead" to the average person is, for an investigator, a psychological defense mechanism—well, he's a corpse, not the first and not the last.
 
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July 29, 2026, 01:43:36 PM
Reply #53
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GlennM


The problem with untied shoelaces is the ever present tripping hazard. We see it here.
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 
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July 29, 2026, 04:38:43 PM
Reply #54
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Ziljoe


The problem with untied shoelaces is the ever present tripping hazard. We see it here.

Untied shoelaces start the trip, going semi‑wild keeps it off‑route, and before long the whole thing is wandering into wildness on its own with a high chance of an unintended outcome.
 
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July 29, 2026, 10:24:08 PM
Reply #55
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Hunter


The group hadn't gone through what's called "cohesion training"—the preparation that takes place when members adapt to each other and learn to work together. Perhaps this also played a role.
 

July 30, 2026, 07:20:37 AM
Reply #56
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GlennM


I think those who are using Ivanov's latter day comments to explain the occurrences on 1079  are trying to tie up the loose ends with magical shoelaces.
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 

July 30, 2026, 08:22:55 AM
Reply #57
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SURI


I think those who are using Ivanov's latter day comments to explain the occurrences on 1079  are trying to tie up the loose ends with magical shoelaces.

On the contrary, I highly recommend trusting Ivanov rather than the commenters here, whose naivety leads everyone astray. Ivanov knew exactly what happened

Ivanov
"I know all the details of this incident."
 

July 30, 2026, 02:29:44 PM
Reply #58
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
There actually is someone in the case who had motive to commit this assault - if that's what it was. The belligerent drunkard from the train who accused them of stealing his flask. Zina refers to the incident in her diary. She doesn't deny the crime, which probably means they did do it. What if the guy gathered some friends and went after them? It's a stretcher, but still above Yeti on the list.

Above Yeti? And assault? And of course we don't know if Yeti exist. And we don't know if it was an assault. 
DB
 

July 30, 2026, 02:37:29 PM
Reply #59
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
My personal theory is that the Dyatlov Pass group may have intentionally planned to investigate or approach something they already knew about, possibly related to a secret military or nuclear experiment taking place in the area.

Well there is plenty of that particular speculation on this Forum over the years.
DB