An experiment with psychostimulants that reportedly went very wrong

[Topaze]

I’ll go into more detail step by step.

In the military sphere, there are two distinct categories of biological research:

• incapacitating agents and biological weapons: intended to harm the enemy;
• stimulants: intended to “boost” one’s own armed forces

The Legacy of World War II

In terms of biological research, the Russians inherited the programs of Japan’s Unit 731. In fact, as early as 1946, they established research centers such as the one in Sverdlovsk (founded in 1946, to be precise), which later evolved into more offensive facilities like Biopreparat (Island of Rebirth / Ken Alibek).
Since the end of World War II—and given that the Nazis used Pervitin (methamphetamine) to boost their troops—the major powers have since sought to “boost” their own troops with psychostimulants as well.

In the Dyatlov case, there is no doubt whatsoever that the authorities are covering something up. You don’t cover up a secret just because it involves an avalanche, a pseudo-yeti, or something similar. You cover up what calls into question the authorities’ responsibility (military programs, etc.), which, in my opinion, rules out all alleged natural causes.

While enemies of the regime—such as prisoners, for example (incidentally, the Ural region where this incident took place is riddled with gulags)—are used to test incapacitating agents or biological weapons, military personnel or civilians are used to test stimulants.

A group setting out on a high-altitude trek is a perfect test group for a full-scale experiment, one that avoids “sacrificing” military personnel. The Dyatlov group was from Sverdlovsk and was affiliated with a prestigious university (and thus linked to state institutions). They had all the necessary authorizations (a mission order, as can be seen in one of the incidents involving the police).

A partially declassified CIA document proves that the Russians were using amphetamines as stimulants in the 1950s:
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP83-00415R008900090007-7.pdf
« phenaline »

This shows that they were interested in the subject and were trying to develop stimulants.

The use of amphetamines (often synthetic, including ephedrine) eventually drives people mad, triggers psychoses, and increases a group’s aggressiveness. It can end up like the fictional scenario in the movie *Jacob’s Ladder*. Furthermore, this type of stimulant creates the sensation of being too hot and burning from the inside (scenes of people undressing and insensitivity to the cold). Amphetamines and other stimulants greatly increase physical strength (giving superhuman strength).

The Dyatlov Pass scene was staged afterward

The tent could not have remained half-erected; furthermore, a wooden cross is visible in the background (in the first photo of the tent, presented as the one taken when the search teams discovered it), suggesting that those who placed the cross knew the nine were dead (they had likely already discovered the bodies). This was a staged scene.

A group crammed into a tent with all their gear—if they left it in a hurry and in a panic—would not have left the gear neatly packed and organized as the reports describe. Everything should have been in disarray.

Moreover, you don’t leave in a hurry at night with a camera—and certainly not without a flash (which has a very limited range)—it makes no sense.

Besides, we have no other evidence of the timeline besides the official reports (which I don’t necessarily believe)—did they really leave at night? The story about the tracks in the snow makes no sense given the weather conditions described; tracks disappear quickly.

Items are missing from the tent, etc. A diary, in particular, has disappeared (etc.), while the other diaries stop on the 31st.

The histological analyses from the samples taken from the bodies have never surfaced and are, in fact, believed to have disappeared.

The autopsy reports seem consistent with the ingestion of an amphetamine: a mysterious, dirty yellowish substance in the stomach, etc.

By hypothesizing a psychostimulant test, we can connect all the more or less mysterious elements of this case.

To resume this investigation, we must stick to the facts.

[GlennM]

With numerous gulags in the area, it would be such a waste of human potential to kill eight college educated technically proficient contributors to the Soviet cause plus a decorated war veteran.

If you want to go the psychopharma route, think about their fresh bread, their rusks and where they consumed it.

Too an experiment with psychoactive ingredients is going to be monitored in real time. Monitors are absent.

[Hunter]

If we're considering the psychostimulant option, we shouldn't consider testing it on students. Instead, consider the possibility that Zolotarev managed to acquire something like Pervitin or "Panzerchocolate" as a trophy during the war. However, over time, the chemical composition changed, resulting in an unusual effect. And the pathologist's lack of knowledge, experience, and the necessary equipment prevented him from detecting this "chemical."

[GlennM]

In the tent on 1079 Zolo" Dude, I got some righteous crank, wanna hit?" Igor"Could have used it breaking trail the other day!"

[Ziljoe]

Hi Topaze.

Why is there no doubt that something is being covered up? Some points below that I think are correct.


Altitude — This wasn’t a high‑altitude trek. The elevations on the route are around 800–1,100 m, which is low mountain terrain. There are no altitude‑related physiological effects at those heights, so linking the incident to “high‑altitude stimulant testing” doesn’t really fit the geography.

Tent condition — A half‑collapsed tent is exactly what you’d expect after ~3 weeks of wind loading, plus searchers cutting into it. Nothing unusual or “staged” about that.

- Ski pole, not a cross — The object behind the tent in the photo is a ski pole. This misidentification has been corrected many times.

- Gear inside the tent — Reports vary. Some items were messy in the middle, others packed near the edges. The interior had been handled multiple times by searchers. Cutting your way out of a tent doesn’t automatically create total chaos.


- Missing diary — I don’t actually know if a diary is missing. One may simply have been lost in the snow. Nothing definitive.I think it's meant that the hard copies are missing.

- Histology — Samples were taken, but the Sverdlovsk morgue didn’t have the equipment to process them properly. The tests weren’t completed. That looks more like bureaucratic failure than anything else.

- Camera / flash — A flash unit isn’t listed among the recovered items I don't think. I believe Zolotaryov may have already had his camera case on him before the evacuation. If you leave in a rush, you don’t deliberately take a flash. This again suggests he was already working on or wearing it, not planning anything. It suggests that his camera was in the tent and he only had the camera case on him. There's no reports to him having been found with a camera.

- Yellowish material in the stomach — This is gastric bile, completely normal in hypothermia deaths. It isn’t evidence of stimulant ingestion.

- Injuries — All injuries correspond to mechanical trauma (falls, impact, compression) and hypothermia. Nothing in the autopsies points toward chemical or pharmacological causes.

- On stimulants — I believe some of the stimulant claims are being overstated. Amphetamines don’t produce the injury patterns seen here, and they don’t explain the mechanical trauma or the hypothermia sequence.

[Topaze]

Hi Ziljoe & others

Altitude

As for “high altitude,” that was indeed a translation error on my part (which I didn’t correct because it’s a minor point); I know full well that this isn’t “high-altitude mountaineering”—since I live in France and am used to skiing in the Alps. I simply meant that a group of young people organizing a trek is a good sample group for a test and/or study.

Tent condition

I disagree: the tent has no poles and therefore stays upright only by a rope attached to skis or stakes driven into the snow. The front panel is standing upright despite the absence of poles or stakes, so this is a staged setup for the photo. Given the wind and weather conditions, it should have collapsed completely.

Cutting open a tent—no, but getting out of it when nine of you are crammed into a small space—yes, on the other hand. So try to rush out of a 4x1.8-meter tent in which you are nine—some sitting, others lying down—without messing up the gear stowed on either side.

About « cover up »

If there hadn’t been this determination to cover up the matter from the very beginning, then in my opinion it would have broadened the range of possibilities, but this attitude consequently suggests that the state apparatus of the time was responsible. At the time, like many others, I had considered other scenarios, including the possibility that they had witnessed military maneuvers or experiments, but in that case, their cameras and personal journals would not have been found, and in any event, the photos would never have been published. As for radioactivity, it’s negligible—it involves only beta radiation and is present in too small a quantity (at least officially) to be significant in this case. These are remnants of contamination from the Mayak accident (1957); in fact, some participants in this trek were exposed to that contamination.

I see this as nothing more than collective hysteria—or perhaps conflict between one subgroup and another. And to explain hysteria that might be covered up by the state apparatus, I can’t think of any other hypothesis than the testing of a psychostimulant, given that the Russians were testing such substances at that time.

ADDITION !!!

The position of the bodies also does not fit with classic hypothermia. When someone is suffering from hypothermia, they curl up into a ball (fetal position) to preserve what little heat remains in the body; this is automatic—it’s a self-defense mechanism of the body—yet in this case, none of the bodies were found in that position. I did my military duty in the Alpine troops and am very familiar with this phenomenon.

On the other hand, under the influence of a stimulant, you don’t feel the cold, even if your body is actually exposed to it. So you don’t have the defensive reflex to assume a position to preserve what little heat remains. In the Dyatlov case, in fact, it certainly seems that they did not act as if they were exposed to Siberian cold (-26°C / -30°C). This could therefore also fit with a scenario involving stimulants.

[Ziljoe]

Hi Topaze

I would think they would not test students and especially without oversight. It's a failed test in its own right if you can't measure or observe the impact.

The ski poles are used as the stakes and the supports and the end of the tents ridges, that's why you see what you think is a cross. The skis are used to create a support for the mid section. Separate from the end bamboo ski poles. The front panel in the photo is standing upright because theres a ski pole there. That's how they spotted the tent as this triangular shape was standing out.

The main theory is they cut their way out the side of the tent . The items at the edges would be affected. There are reports of a scattered packet of biscuits, a broken ski pole , some items found outside the tent and blankets moved.

Several statements slightly contradict the internal layout of the tent interior, it seems things had been moved several times before the official layout of items were recorded. This ties in with the non procedural efforts to find the hikers alive.

I think mushrooms , various gases or posing has been put forth. I like the wolverine theory but keep coming back to the weather and environment.

I don't see any determination to cover up by anyone.it all seems very transparent .

[GlennM]

Yet another spin in this theory is that rather than being lab rats, consider the hikers being given some " co pilot pills" at one of their overnight stays before the actual climb to the pass. If they were given amphetamine, the time to use it is breaking trail up to the pass where as the record shows they did a relay rotation. That would use up their stash quickly.

Nothing in the Mansi glossary suggests a psychoactive bark or winter root.

I like the note about curling up. How does one reconcile it with paradoxical undressing, which we do not see in the case files?

[Ziljoe]

ADDITION !!!

The position of the bodies also does not fit with classic hypothermia. When someone is suffering from hypothermia, they curl up into a ball (fetal position) to preserve what little heat remains in the body; this is automatic—it’s a self-defense mechanism of the body—yet in this case, none of the bodies were found in that position. I did my military duty in the Alpine troops and am very familiar with this phenomenon.

On the other hand, under the influence of a stimulant, you don’t feel the cold, even if your body is actually exposed to it. So you don’t have the defensive reflex to assume a position to preserve what little heat remains. In the Dyatlov case, in fact, it certainly seems that they did not act as if they were exposed to Siberian cold (-26°C / -30°C). This could therefore also fit with a scenario involving stimulants.

People freezing to death often end up in upright or defensive postures — including hands raised, arms bent, or “boxing” positions — especially if they die while moving or falling. Igor’s posture is entirely consistent with hypothermia.

If you Google evidence based hypothermia deaths you will find historic ww2 and modern photos of the body positions.

Sleeping hypothermia produces fetal posture. 
Fighting hypothermia produces defensive or mid‑movement postures. The body actually freezes or restricts joints whilst in movement and alive.

All the actions suggest survival which includes starting a fire and a shelter with flooring and insulation from the ground.

[Topaze]

Although I’ve read about it many times, I can no longer find the sources proving that there was indeed obstruction in this case. And in any case, they were likely not primary sources but perhaps exaggerations of the typical bureaucratic red tape of that era in the USSR. In fact, if anyone has sources on this subject, that would be a bonus I’d be happy to have.

My hypothesis regarding a stimulant test is based primarily on a cover-up by the authorities, and on the fact that, at that same time, the USSR was conducting experiments with substances to create “super-soldiers”, and that sport events involving such substances were taking place and that Soviet sports teams of the era were suspected on numerous occasions of having used them.

Actually, regarding hypothermia, I had overlooked the phenomenon of paradoxical undressing and the fact that the sensation of warmth could also be a result of extreme hypothermia itself.

Now, even without evidence from a stimulant test (civilian or military), this doesn’t rule out the possibility that at least one team member panicked (psychose), fled the tent, and was likely pursued by the others—who, thinking they could catch up to him quickly, didn’t take their clothes with them.

Because in this case, the initial point is the most unclear and is the key to everything else.

I understand (I’ve read) that there was a power struggle between Dyatlov and Zolotaryov that had been simmering for some time.

[Hunter]

1. Вряд ли бы психотропы стали бы проверять вот так.
2. Сокрытие любых неприглядных фактов было стандартной политикой СССР. Отказываться, скрывать, пока в угол не зажмут.
3. Вряд ли побежали за неадекватным товарищем все, причем кто в чем был. Девушек бы 100% оставили в палатке.

ENGLISH TRANSLATION:
1. It's unlikely that psychotropics would start testing like this.
2. The concealment of any unsightly facts was a standard policy of the USSR. Refuse, hide until you're cornered.
3. It is unlikely that everyone ran after an inadequate comrade, and who was in what. The girls would be 100% left in the tent.

[Topaze]

"[...] Amphetamines, potent α-adrenergic agonists, can induce bladder neck closure and dysfunction by triggering protein kinase A activation. This study suggests that methamphetamine use should be considered in aetiological considerations and excluded in healthy young patients with urinary incontinence. Ketamine uropathy affects over one-quarter of users and can lead to severe lower urinary tract symptoms and upper tract obstruction. Drug abuse can cause bowel incontinence through various mechanisms affecting both physical health and psychological well-being. Chronic amphetamine intake leads to neurogenic bladder and chronic urinary retention, with the mechanism underlying persistent urinary retention being unclear. Meth affects the urinary tract by interrupting communication between nerves and muscles necessary for urination, resulting in urinary retention. [...]"
Source : https://aliyahealthcare.com/does-abusing-amphetamines-lead-to-incontinence.html

Autopsy report of G. Krivonischenko
"The bladder contained up to 500 cm3 of cloudy yellow liquid."
Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-112-119?rbid=17743

Autopsy report of Igor Dyatlov
"The bladder contained up to 1 liter of opaque light yellow liquid."
Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-120-126?rbid=17743

Autopsy report of Zolotaryov
"The bladder contained up to 500 cm3 of opaque yellowish liquid.
There are signs of defecation from the rectum."
Source : https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-349-351?rbid=17743

Autopsy report of Kolevatov
"The bladder contained up to 700 cm3 of murky yellow liquid."
Source : https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-345-348?rbid=17743

NB: I don't take amounts under 500 ml into account, because they're still within the normal range.

That's one of the symptomss of taking a high dose of amphetamine !!!! This is well known and well documented !

ℹ️

Clinical Significance

These very large volumes (700 ml to 1 liter) strongly reinforce the hypothesis of severe impairment of consciousness at the time of death. The normal reaction would have been involuntary voiding of urine before death (which also often explains the wet clothing found on cadavers).

Such massive distension therefore constitutes a highly significant pathological indicator that major intoxication preceded death.

[Ziljoe]

"[...] Amphetamines, potent α-adrenergic agonists, can induce bladder neck closure and dysfunction by triggering protein kinase A activation. This study suggests that methamphetamine use should be considered in aetiological considerations and excluded in healthy young patients with urinary incontinence. Ketamine uropathy affects over one-quarter of users and can lead to severe lower urinary tract symptoms and upper tract obstruction. Drug abuse can cause bowel incontinence through various mechanisms affecting both physical health and psychological well-being. Chronic amphetamine intake leads to neurogenic bladder and chronic urinary retention, with the mechanism underlying persistent urinary retention being unclear. Meth affects the urinary tract by interrupting communication between nerves and muscles necessary for urination, resulting in urinary retention. [...]"
Source : https://aliyahealthcare.com/does-abusing-amphetamines-lead-to-incontinence.html

Autopsy report of G. Krivonischenko
"The bladder contained up to 500 cm3 of cloudy yellow liquid."
Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-112-119?rbid=17743

Autopsy report of Igor Dyatlov
"The bladder contained up to 1 liter of opaque light yellow liquid."
Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-120-126?rbid=17743

Autopsy report of Zolotaryov
"The bladder contained up to 500 cm3 of opaque yellowish liquid."
There are signs of defecation from the rectum.
Source : https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-349-351?rbid=17743

Autopsy report of Kolevatov
"The bladder contained up to 700 cm3 of murky yellow liquid."
Source : https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-345-348?rbid=17743


NB: I don't take amounts under 500 ml into account, because they're still within the normal range.

Those are exactly the symptoms of taking a high dose of amphetamine !!!! This is well known and well documented !

The problem we have is all the other symptoms along with what we would expect to find in hypothermia.

1) Cold diuresis is a normal physiological response in hypothermia. 
When someone is exposed to cold for a prolonged period, the body shifts blood from the extremities to the core. The kidneys respond by producing more urine. People also lose the urge to void when they’re cold, immobile, or lying still. Bladder volumes of 500–1000 ml are entirely normal in that situation.

2) The autopsy values fall within normal ranges for people who haven’t urinated for several hours. 
These numbers don’t point to stimulant use on their own. They’re consistent with cold exposure, dehydration, and prolonged immobility.

3) Defecation at death is non‑specific. 
Loss of sphincter tone can occur in hypothermia, cardiac arrest, drowning, trauma, and many other causes. It isn’t a specific marker for stimulant intake.It’s also worth noting that Zolotaryov sustained a major blunt‑force trauma to the chest, which can affect bowel control at the moment of death. Severe thoracic injury can disrupt autonomic function and cause loss of sphincter tone.

4) The medical sources you quoted describe chronic stimulant users. 
The bladder and bowel complications listed in those articles develop over weeks or months of repeated use. They don’t appear suddenly after a single dose, and they don’t match the physiology seen in acute cold exposure.

So while the autopsy findings are interesting, they don’t point toward amphetamines on their own. They fit well within what’s expected in severe hypother

[Topaze]

Hi  Ziljoe

They fit well within what’s expected in severe hypother

So how you explain that :

Renström anger att beslutet att söka skydd fattades på ett sent stadium och att skyddet som åstadkoms var för dåligt. Utrustningen hade blivit kvar i ryggsäckarna, eftersom de inte gick att öppna med frusna händer. Av samma skäl kunde de drabbade inte heller hantera den ökade urinproduktion som kölden (kyldiures) medförde, utan kläderna vättes ned med urin ända till skorna, med de ökade värmeförluster det innebar.

English translation :

Enström states that the decision to seek shelter was made at a late stage and that the shelter they managed to set up was inadequate. Their gear had remained in their backpacks because they couldn’t open them with frozen hands. For the same reason, the victims were also unable to cope with the increased urine production caused by the cold (cold diuresis), and their clothes became soaked with urine all the way down to their shoes, resulting in increased heat loss.

Source : https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarisolyckan

It's about the Anaris case of 1978 which is often compared to our case !
https://h24-files.s3.amazonaws.com/156890/1278333-eq3lb.pdf

The resulting diuresis is not synonymous with urinary retention—quite the opposite—so that doesn't make sense ! I stand by my assertion regarding symptoms of intoxication, which may have caused psychotic behavior !

[Ziljoe]

Hi  Ziljoe

They fit well within what’s expected in severe hypother

So how you explain that :

Renström anger att beslutet att söka skydd fattades på ett sent stadium och att skyddet som åstadkoms var för dåligt. Utrustningen hade blivit kvar i ryggsäckarna, eftersom de inte gick att öppna med frusna händer. Av samma skäl kunde de drabbade inte heller hantera den ökade urinproduktion som kölden (kyldiures) medförde, utan kläderna vättes ned med urin ända till skorna, med de ökade värmeförluster det innebar.

English translation :

Enström states that the decision to seek shelter was made at a late stage and that the shelter they managed to set up was inadequate. Their gear had remained in their backpacks because they couldn’t open them with frozen hands. For the same reason, the victims were also unable to cope with the increased urine production caused by the cold (cold diuresis), and their clothes became soaked with urine all the way down to their shoes, resulting in increased heat loss.

Source : https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarisolyckan

It's about the Anaris case of 1978 which is often compared to our case !
https://h24-files.s3.amazonaws.com/156890/1278333-eq3lb.pdf

The resulting diuresis is not synonymous with urinary retention—quite the opposite—so that doesn't make sense ! I stand by my assertion regarding symptoms of intoxication, which may have caused psychotic behavior !

You are using one example out of context. It's well known that hypothermia victims retain fluid in their bladder.

During the early and moderate stages of severe hypothermia—while the core body temperature is still above 32 °C—the kidneys produce a massive rush of fluid due to cold diuresis.

The Problem: The skiers' bodies were producing an overwhelming amount of urine very quickly.The Physical Limitation: Because their hands were already frozen solid, they physically could not open their backpacks to get equipment or unbutton their heavy layers of clothes.The Outcome: Unable to control or pause the urge while still conscious, they were forced to urinate directly into their clothing. The wet clothing accelerated their heat loss dramatically, sealing their fate.

2. The Final Stage and Postmortem PhaseThe previous explanation regarding urinary retention applies to what happens right at the brink of death, when the core temperature plummets below 28 °C:The Shutdown: Once a person enters the deepest stage of hypothermia, the autonomic nervous system begins to fail. The body goes rigid, and the internal urinary sphincter undergoes a profound involuntary spasm, locking shut.

The Retained Fluid: Any urine produced after that locking mechanism occurs is trapped. When forensic pathologists perform autopsies on hypothermia victims, they almost always find the bladder containing a significant amount of urine.

[Topaze]

I fully disagree with that :

The Retained Fluid: Any urine produced after that locking mechanism occurs is trapped

In cases of severe and prolonged hypothermia, particularly during the coma phase:

Metabolism slows down drastically—the body reduces its functions to a minimum
Renal blood flow decreases—less blood to the kidneys, resulting in less filtration
Urine production becomes minimal or stops completely

Therefore, a body in terminal hypothermia following prolonged exposure to the cold would not experience significant bladder distension. On the contrary, the bladder would remain mostly empty or only slightly filled.

Let's follow on ...

Amphetamines cause urinary retention through a mechanism different from that of hypothermia:

They are potent α-adrenergic agonists that cause the bladder neck to close
They interrupt the nerve signals necessary for normal urination
Result: neurological urinary retention—the bladder does not empty despite the accumulation of urine

About Dyatlov's Case :

These volumes far exceed what would be expected from hypothermia alone. Pure hypothermia, on the contrary, would have minimized urine production.

These figures do indeed suggest a severe amphetamine intoxication that mechanically blocks bladder emptying, causing massive distension. This is a highly significant pathological marker of severe impairment of consciousness prior to death.

Now, if we go by your theory, I should have taken into account the autopsies of the nine bodies, but I didn't, because the problem doesn't exist for some of them ! Some were intoxicated before they became hypothermic, but the others were not !

[Ziljoe]

I fully disagree with that :

The Retained Fluid: Any urine produced after that locking mechanism occurs is trapped

In cases of severe and prolonged hypothermia, particularly during the coma phase:

Metabolism slows down drastically—the body reduces its functions to a minimum
Renal blood flow decreases—less blood to the kidneys, resulting in less filtration
Urine production becomes minimal or stops completely

Therefore, a body in terminal hypothermia following prolonged exposure to the cold would not experience significant bladder distension. On the contrary, the bladder would remain mostly empty or only slightly filled.

the others were not !

You’re applying standard shock physiology correctly — in most causes of death, kidney perfusion collapses, metabolism slows, and urine production stops. 
But fatal hypothermia does not follow the same timeline. It has a unique cold‑induced sequence that produces the opposite bladder outcome.

This is why forensic pathology treats urine retention as a classic marker of hypothermic death. AI assisted.

Here’s the actual physiological timeline:

---

1. Early Hypothermia: Massive Cold Diuresis (the bladder fills)
Before anyone reaches the coma phase, they pass through mild and moderate hypothermia. 
During these stages:

- peripheral vasoconstriction forces blood into the core 
- central blood pressure spikes 
- kidneys respond by over‑filtering 
- urine production increases sharply

This is textbook cold diuresis.

The bladder fills long before kidney function slows.

---

2. Late Hypothermia: Sphincter Lock (the fluid becomes trapped)
Once core temperature drops below ~30–28°C:

- consciousness fades 
- coordination collapses 
- voluntary voiding becomes impossible 
- the internal urinary sphincter contracts involuntarily 
- the bladder cannot empty

You’re right that filtration slows in terminal hypothermia — 
but by that point the bladder is already full.

This is why hypothermia victims die with retained urine, not empty bladders.

---

3. Forensic Evidence: Hypothermia Deaths Retain More Urine
A forensic CT study of 24 hypothermia deaths found:

- average bladder volume: 206.9 ml 
- maximum: 582.56 ml 
- hypothermia victims retained significantly more urine than non‑hypothermia deaths (p = 0.0011)

This directly contradicts your claim that hypothermia “minimizes urine production.”

Cold diuresis + immobility = retention.

This is not theory — it’s measured forensic data.

---

4. Dyatlov Autopsies Fit Hypothermia Perfectly
The Dyatlov bladder volumes fall inside documented hypothermia ranges:

- 1000 ml 
- 500 ml 
- 300 ml 
- 100 ml 

These are normal for prolonged cold exposure + immobility. 
They are not pathological. 
They do not indicate stimulant collapse.

If this were amphetamine intoxication, you would expect:

- involuntary urination 
- wet clothing 
- empty bladder 
- loss of sphincter tone 

None of the Dyatlov hikers show this.

---

5. Your stimulant mechanism contradicts itself
Amphetamine collapse causes:

- sudden unconsciousness 
- sphincter relaxation 
- bladder release 
- bowel release

You cannot have stimulant‑induced bowel release without bladder release. 
Physiology doesn’t work that way.

The Dyatlov hikers show:

- no urination 
- full bladders 
- preserved sphincter tone

This is incompatible with stimulant intoxication.

---

6. “Some were intoxicated before hypothermia” has no evidence
There is:

- no toxicology 
- no witness testimony 
- no behavioural signs 
- no medical signs 
- no forensic signs 
- no pharmacological basis 

It’s an unsupported premise

[Topaze]

Amphetamins = Retention, bladder neck CLOSURE, it's fully documented, it's the quite opposite.
Hypothermia = Cold diuresis prior terminal phase (nearby coma) : you wet yourself cause you cannot evacuate excess fluid like the ones in Sweden in 1978 and many others, in terminal phase : no more kidneys activity no more fluid production !

LOL ;-)

[Hunter]

Regarding Soviet athletes using chemicals. The question is: were athletes from other countries able to perform without any chemicals? Also, it's worth remembering that stimulants like pervitin have been around for a long time. And finally, does the author of this thread know how drug trials are conducted?

[Ziljoe]

Amphetamins = Retention, bladder neck CLOSURE, it's fully documented, it's the quite opposite.
Hypothermia = Cold diuresis prior terminal phase (nearby coma) : you wet yourself cause you cannot evacuate excess fluid like the ones in Sweden in 1978 and many others, in terminal phase : no more kidneys activity no more fluid production !

LOL ;-)

I'm not sure if you understand the difference. Needing to urinate but not being able to use your hands to access your zip is not the same as uncontrolled bladder function. I'm sorry but I do not understand your context when you say " you wet yourself because you cannot evacuated excess fluid like the ones in Sweden. " It doesn't make sense when the victims of hypothermia have excces urine found in their bladder.


 [3]. Conversely, we have observed that a number of
hypothermic death cases presented the following three character-
istic findings: (1) lack of increase in concentration of lung fields,
(2) blood clotting in the heart, thoracic aorta or pulmonary artery,
and (3) urine retention in the bladder. The CT’s diagnostic perfor-
mance for hypothermic death was evaluated according to these
three findings.

[GlennM]

The argument and counter argument are well said. This is an example of working backwards from result to cause. I compare it to looking at ripples in a pool and supposing what coin was dropped in on the other side.

The next phase of this argument would be to source the drug. Was it freely given or purchased? Recall what Lyuda did with the trip funds. Remember the lack of train tickets. Remember how the group secured overnight lodging. If not bought, then given? Who was the pusher? Zolo would be a likely candidate because he is always the likely candidate. If he pushed pills and they were rejected, would this not be reflected in a diary? If the pills were obtained on the black market, how can we reconcile this with the idealism of tourism? Then again perhaps doing things all natural was not a thing in the 50's as it seems to be now. Finally, if the group were lab rats for the military, it stands to reason that testing soldiers would be far easier to monitor than remote hikers.

So, if the hikers were high on crank, those tissue samples gain in importance, yes?

[Topaze]

Cannot evacuate "in other way" ... I forgot to mention it !

"Dyatlov died as the result of hypothermia/freezing [...] He died a violent death, an accident."
Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-120-126?rbid=17743

How, then, can we attach any importance to fanciful autopsies? Died of hypothermia / Died of violent death (accident)  !!!

"in the breats pocket 4 pills Streptocide (anti-inflammatory agent used for wound infection) still in the blister"

Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/death?flp=1#Doroshenko

An antibiotic from Dyatlov's first-aid kit ! No harmful side effects, but that proves they were using its contents ! Let's see what was in that kit :

Pyramidone 0.3 X 20
Streptocide 0.5 X 20

Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-199-208?lid=1&flp=1#203

Pyramidon(e) = Aminophenazone

irritability / anxiety / central nervous system stimulation / mental disturbances etc ...
its production and use have been banned in many countries

[Ziljoe]

Cannot evacuate "in other way" ... I forgot to mention it !

"Dyatlov died as the result of hypothermia/freezing [...] He died a violent death, an accident."
Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-120-126?rbid=17743

How, then, can we attach any importance to fanciful autopsies? Died of hypothermia / Died of violent death (accident)  !!!

"in the breats pocket 4 pills Streptocide (anti-inflammatory agent used for wound infection) still in the blister"

Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/death?flp=1#Doroshenko

An antibiotic from Dyatlov's first-aid kit ! No harmful side effects, but that proves they were using its contents ! Let's see what was in that kit :

Pyramidone 0.3 X 20
Streptocide 0.5 X 20

Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-199-208?lid=1&flp=1#203

Pyramidon(e) = Aminophenazone

irritability / anxiety / central nervous system stimulation / mental disturbances etc ...
its production and use have been banned in many countries

the drug you mentioned was banned because of agranulocytosis.
Aminophenazone was withdrawn in many countries because:In a tiny percentage of people, after repeated use, it caused agranulocytosis — a dangerous drop in infection‑fighting white blood cells.

They had a first aid kit as that's what you take , Yuri Yudin I think gave some first aid kit extras to Zina when he left.

The drug was for pain relief or fever. It wasn't for boosting performance.

The "died a violent death and then accident" has been explained and it's legal autopsy terminology for the era.

Pills in a pocket doesn't prove consumption.

We can list a host of drugs that list the same side effects for anxiety/ irratibilty/ mental disturbance etc.  If it concerns you , don't read the small print of ibuprofen, aspirin, paracetamol. Every drug has a list of side effects of one sort or another that happen to a small percentage or with high dosages.

I thought you were saying it was some sort of military drug testing? Not an off the shelf  pain killer?!

[Hunter]

It's unlikely Lyuda bought anything from a drug dealer. Especially since people dabbled in vodka and moonshine back then, and if they did dabble in drugs, it wasn't the average student. And if the Dyatlov group were testing a government program on combat stimulants, then where are the ton of doctors, etc., etc., monitoring the test subjects and recording everything?

At the time of the group's demise, the only "drug" article in the criminal code—Article 179a—punished the cultivation of opium poppy and Indian hemp without a permit with imprisonment for up to two years or correctional labor for up to one year, with mandatory confiscation of the crops. I found no articles for possession, sale, or distribution of narcotics.

[Topaze]

@Ziljoe
Clearly, we’re not on the same page; you’re constantly playing with words and don’t understand my approach. Initially, yes, I thought it might be a test, but in any case, to me, this whole situation is so full of inconsistencies that I’m focusing on the psychological factor. So I’m feeling my way through this, just like you and everyone else! So I’m looking for substances that can alter consciousness. You’re playing with words because I NEVER said why the product was banned; I simply pointed out—to keep things simple—the side effects that might fall into the psychological realm! You’re too RIGID in your understanding; you should be more FLEXIBLE and try to understand my approach!

@Hunter
At first glance, yes, we do need doctors, but in some cases, we can do without them: all we need is an on-site representative (someone who administers the product and takes notes on any observed effects—or lack thereof). Note that this is HYPOTHETICAL—I’m not making any claims; I’m just exploring the idea! I’d rather make that clear given the nitpicking atmosphere that’s going on here, LOL!

[Ziljoe]

Hi topaze

Just to clarify my approach — I’m not fixed on one interpretation. I run different models of what might have happened, including psychological ones. The stimulant route doesn’t fit the autopsy or physiology, but a psychological trigger is something that can be explored.

For example, one scenario I looked at a long time ago involved Zina. 
It’s only an example — not a claim — but it shows how a psychological cascade could start without drugs.

When the Evening Otrten was shared, the stove entry about her taking an exaggerated amount of time to set it up with Yuri could easily have embarrassed her.She was in love with him and apprehensive about the hike, there's a small possibility that she opened up to him in this moment of setting up the stove or expressed her self to him .She was already uncomfortable with Yuri being on the trip, and the tent was cramped, cold, and socially intense. If someone read the line out loud about the length of time it took , she may have wanted to burst into tears .If she was stuck away from the entrance and feeling humiliated or overwhelmed, she might have cut the tent to get out quickly. This is an emotional trigger and I remember such painful thoughts from love that made me sick in my stomach by the ache of loving someone who didn't reciprocate the love.

In that kind of moment, the others wouldn’t stay inside analysing the situation — they’d follow her immediately, either to calm her down or to help. That alone could explain why they left so fast, why the tracks show different levels of clothing, and why they headed toward the treeline. It also might explain 8 tracks being shown and them walking in a line as if tracing her footsteps down the slope. After that, the environment takes over: cold, wind, disorientation, and the survival attempts we see in the case files.

That’s just one example of a psychological model that doesn’t require stimulants and still fits the evidence. I’m not saying it happened — only that psychological factors can be explored without needing to rely on pharmacology that doesn’t match the autopsies.

There are threads about mushrooms , tinned canned posing, something in the bread etc.

I’m not trying to be rigid — just keeping each mechanism consistent with the case data. If you want to explore psychological triggers, please do so but if you make claims that don't match my understanding or clinical evidence, I will probably comment.

[Topaze]

Hi Ziljoe,

Your scenario with Zina makes perfect sense! However, can we really rely on footprints in the snow that would normally disappear with the first blizzard and/or the first snowfall?

The story about the bread reminds me of the Pont-St-Esprit incident, and it’s funny because it was precisely that incident—along with the MK-ULTRA hypothesis linked to the CIA—that made me think of an experiment conducted on civilians without their consent (at least it showed that the scenario was plausible), even though the bread was initially suspected of containing ergot.

That said, it’s true that sometimes we try to make the facts fit our own theory—you’re not wrong!

😜

[Ziljoe]

Hi Topaze,

Pont‑Saint‑Esprit is definitely one of those cases that grabs people’s imagination — I remember looking at it years ago myself. It’s a good example of how a dramatic incident can make us think in certain directions.

For Dyatlov, I find it helps to start with the behaviour at the tent first, before jumping to causes. If we describe the psychological event you think happened — what the group actually did — then we can work backwards and explore possible triggers. That keeps things consistent with the case files.

On the footprints — it’s worth remembering that winter tracks can last a very long time. In the right conditions (cold, compacted snow,  wind), they can persist for weeks or even months. It’s a well‑known phenomenon in winter terrain, and the searchers on Dyatlov were familiar with it.

So we really only have two possibilities:

- either the searchers lied about the footprints, 
- or the footprints were exactly as they described.

There isn’t a third option where the phenomenon “doesn’t exist,” because it absolutely does — it’s been documented in many expeditions. That’s why I treat the footprint descriptions as reliable unless there’s evidence they were falsified.

Once the behaviour at the tent is clear, we can look at possible causes — emotional, environmental, physiological, or even something like food or water contamination. There are plenty of options that don’t require stimulants or cover‑ups.

So what psychological event do you think happened at the tent itself?

[GlennM]

The DP9 were not hidden, nor posed. If hidden, the criminals have more time to escape. If exposed, they become a message sent by assassins. Neither is true.

The suggestion they were experimental subjects is not supported by any reasonable physical evidence. I believe the thread is a red herring and an argument for the sake of arguing.

The thread is less about a chemical and more about behavior, in this case mass hysteria. Hysterical people scatter, not form a line. Hysterical people do not lay out their companions, shelter in a ravine, nor deliberately backtrack. These are rational, not impulsive behaviors inconsistent with psychoactive drugs.

[Hunter]

Если уж рассматривать версию с использованием неких стимуляторов, то тут я бы в первую очередь поставил бы на Золотарева. Он бывший фронтовик, имел контакты с медицинским институтом. Поэтому мог получить стимуляторы либо как трофей, либо попросил знакомых химиков сделать чет такое.

--------------------

If we're considering the possibility of stimulants being used, I'd bet on Zolotarev first. He's a former front-line soldier with connections to the medical institute. So, he could have either obtained the stimulants as trophies or asked his chemist friends to make something similar.